r/grandorder Jun 16 '25

JP Discussion Which locked ascensions are the most and least deserved? Spoiler

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809 Upvotes

155 comments sorted by

674

u/RestinPsalm Jun 16 '25

Not considering that some of their third ascensions might have voice lines which are spoilers, just going by design...

Totally Deserved: Oberon (Spoils his entire twist in LB6), Draco (Her not becoming Mother Harlot is a major switchup), Rikyu (Komahime being in there isn't revealed for a while)

Not Deserved But It Was Cooler To See It In The Event First: Douman, Tut, Bibi.

Not Really Deserved At All: Typhon, Biscoine, Komachi

Not Even Used In The Story???: Charlie.

253

u/PhantasosX Jun 16 '25

what damages Charlie's ascencions is that more and more content shows that the Carolignian Mythos kinda happened , but TM tries to gaslight with the whole Karl situation.

Karl and Charlie is less "real" and "fictional" , but more like "historical" and "mythological". Its akin to make Altera have one class to represent her raiding rome and the other to represent her aiding Kriemhild.

57

u/Murozaki_II Jun 16 '25

Karl and Charlie is less "real" and "fictional" , but more like "historical" and "mythological". Its akin to make Altera have one class to represent her raiding rome and the other to represent her aiding Kriemhild.

This was always the case. In the flashback for Karl they even use the design of Charlie to represent him in his younger days and it is confirmed that he still had Astolfo and the others as his Paladins.

It was never that Charlie and his stories never happened or that Charlie was wholy separate from Karl. It was that his stories are treated in-universe as fictional by the universe in a retroactive sense (Because that is how history works in TM). That Charlie embodies the mythical aspects of Karl that Human History cannot reconcile together.

It is a lot like Holmes, his TM lore states he existed, but his fame is as a fictional character, thus his existence as a Servant is one defined by his status as a fictional character.

54

u/Garett-Telvanni Jun 16 '25

what damages Charlie's ascencions is that more and more content shows that the Carolignian Mythos kinda happened

They did happen, but in a pruned timeline - it's just that english version of Link completely omits that line.

26

u/PhantasosX Jun 16 '25

Even with that. We have Celenike with a catalyst to Paladin Astolfo, or FGO summoning Bradamante or how Extella Link shows young Karl to be just Charlie…

It’s so easy to justify things like Mandricardo been King of Mongols been him just the king of a “Mongolian moving city” , since the Mongols kinda had that, but Karl ordered to be morphed a little for the carolignian tales….

13

u/Garett-Telvanni Jun 16 '25

There are ways through which items from pruned worlds can end up in PHH (mainly through the Reverse) and the stories of them can be reflected in fiction (that's what Holmes' Trial Quest implies).

Charlie/Karl finding the Velber mural and getting a vision from that was the exact divergence point between their lives.

3

u/ZeothTheHedgehog I have found my Queen Jun 16 '25

So which Charlie experienced their myth exactly?

50

u/version15 "Welcome to my World" Jun 16 '25

Charlie's is such a massive shame because I genuinely thought there was gonna be an insane twist in Traum with him being revealed as one of, if not THE antagonist lol. There were "hints" I took way too seriously I guess.

77

u/mango_pan Jun 16 '25

Baobhan Sith third ascension also didn't appear in the story

55

u/Roliq Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

That one is so out of there that even now no one knows what is meant to represent, even the Materials do not comment on it, which is kind of dumb since that is the point of the Materials

40

u/Murozaki_II Jun 16 '25

Most common headcanon is that it represents her inside Cernunnos.

43

u/Benxall_ Jun 16 '25

My theory is that since the story wants you to feel bad for sith then just added that one for misery porn points

25

u/ChapatinPHD Jun 16 '25

they'll downvote you to hell for saying that, but you're right, this story is trying REALLY damn hard to make you feel bad for sith and it's just disingenous at a certain point.

21

u/QueenAra2 Jun 17 '25

Oh come now! Are you telling me you DON'T feel bad for the sociopathic serial killer who's done nothing but commit horrible atrocities during her debut?

9

u/ChapatinPHD Jun 17 '25

I swear LB6 has so many instances of the narrative wanting me to sympathize with an awful despicable disgusting person i acutlaly think nasu might be a psychopath.

9

u/Kronos457 Jun 17 '25

Ironically, that's what bothers me most about LB6: for some reason, they want us to feel sorry for the Fairies, the Fairy Knights, and Morgan, even though they didn't try to do the same to other LBs.

I'm sorry, but while some redeemed themselves or died because they had done something wrong, all of those Characters mentioned committed huge crimes that shouldn't have been easily forgiven. (This same thing also applies to Oberon, who basically manipulated both sides on his own whim and didn't receive any greater punishment)

15

u/ChapatinPHD Jun 17 '25

don't forget beryl and mister lion, who the narrative goes as far as making the very girl they tried to assault say that she understands and respects them ebcsaue it's all due to love in thier own way.

fucking god

3

u/Cross_Toss Jun 17 '25

I main Mash defenitly doesn't do that for Beryl

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3

u/Kronos457 Jun 17 '25

(See Mash "enjoying" Lilith's torture in OC4)

Maybe Mash likes that kind of thing, but she doesn't say it openly...

14

u/Sezzomon Jun 17 '25

That's just in their nature, though. I think Barghest did more than enough to prove that she's actually a good person, but can't be due to her circumstances. The innkeeper as well.

3

u/Cross_Toss Jun 17 '25

I'd argue that Mike is the only Fairy who managed to get a good end by overcoming Fae kind's greatest flaw, that being their impulsiveness. Every other British Fairy (exept Habbycat) had a bad end, because of their Impulsiveness, but Mike managed to reverse his transformation into a Mors, and considering how they mentioned a few times how safe the Inn's basement was, it's likely that he was one of the last Fairies alive by the end of the story, and may have even been the only Fairy to dissapear with the Lostbelt instead of dying.

10

u/beyer17 Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

Tbf maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that might be the whole point - even awful persons don't (always) deserve horrible things happening to them.

Barghest was a harsh and brutal, yet honourable and loyal knight. And most importantly, she couldn't do anything about her monstrous side and suffered greatly because of that.

Melusine was a genuinely pure and loyal being in need of love and of a good role model, but happened to be on the wrong side of barricades. Admittedly, she also had one of the most satisfying resolutions.

Aesc tried her best, but was betrayed and failed... time after time again. In the end she chose to become the evil queen, as she saw it as the only remaining possibility to maintain peace and order. A well meaning tyrant, but still a tyrant. Already an interesting dilemma, but then there's another layer atop of that, that she failed kind of because she herself didn't want to fulfill her duty, but since she had to sacrifice herself for that, again, can we really blame her for trying to find another way? And even if we fault her for everything, her death was still tragic, painful and anticlimactic. There was no classical “villain is beaten by hero in a honourable fight and confesses their sins as they pass away” and it would've been boring if we had that, but I can't not feel bad for her (and for us!) for being denied that.

And lastly Baobhan Sith, a cruel and vile being that suffers through a fate much worse than death. Yes, she deserved her retribution, but imho it was too much and I felt bad for her, even while I still didn't like her in the slightest. Even she would've deserved to get put out of her misery.

But this is as I said kind of the point, where do you draw your line? Who deserves what? The list could go on and on with Murian, Spriggan, Aurora, Woodwose, Peperonchino etc etc. Then there are also situations like Boggart and Beryl, where probably my own line lies. The former might be a honourable warrior and clan leader, but he is undeniably a rapist. And Beryl is just awful to say the least, and got a way too honourable way out in a fight, instead of rotting like Baobhan or being trampled like Morgan, which he would've actually deserved (again, in my opinion). So I guess it's also Mash's right to “forgive” them, she as a victim might not even fully realise what was going on (it's still rather weirdly handled by Nasu though), and it's our right to disagree with her. Again, maybe that's also the point, to evoke our feelings of rightful hatred to defend someone dear to us.

And very very lastly Oberon absolutely got punished. He actually succeeded as the villain in destroying the world he hated, but he also doomed himself to remain for all of eternity in his own nothing. It is interesting though, that if we summon him after LB6, he remembers what was going on and has as little clue as us on what happened and how he ended up getting summoned... well, if he wasn't lying ofc.

5

u/SockParticular4936 Jun 17 '25

This was well written. To add some points regarding Morgan, even Oberon himself sympathizes with her in the end and reveals that her dream wasn't really wrong, and it was his duty that compelled him to destroy her Britain. He understands that Morgan just wanted a place to belong to, and the fae were harsh with both her and Castoria. It honestly makes Morgan even more tragic because this woman really wanted to create a Britain with no conflict, but the betrayal and trauma she experienced caused her to change and become the tyrant we know. But even then she still cared about the people she loved which includes her daughter and this ultimately weakened her and killed her.

2

u/mango_pan Jun 17 '25

>Barghest was a harsh and brutal, yet honourable and loyal knight.

I think she's the one who got most development as a Tam Lin during LB6. From the knight who obeyed her orders without questions to the one who has good rationality. Just kinda ironic that in the end her instinct got the better of her.

>Melusine was a genuinely pure and loyal being in need of love and of a good role model, but happened to be on the wrong side of barricades. Admittedly, she also had one of the most satisfying resolutions.

i was kinda disappointed with the reveal that she was basically Aurora's "yes ma'am". But i agree with her ending being quite good.

For Baobhan Sith case, i think when they revealed the info that she's actually one of the kindest fae but told by Morgan to behave cruelly is too fast. They just crammed that info in short narration and seemed in a rush to finish the LB6 story. And even though she's just told to behave like she did to protect herself, i personally think she went too far and past the point of a light sentence.

Vivian's case is a complicated one. While she did torment the faes in the form of that taxation, the upper crust of faes society seems untouched. Those taxation means nothing to them. In the end she essentially became like those that she despised. Especially after she basically approved the torture theater. She's just perpetuating what the faes did to Cernunnos and its priestess.

Boggart is basically a plot device for Mash development while Beryl is the worst pick of a master (blame Marisbury and his nutcase of a brain). I respected Peperoncino way more than Beryl. Mash may "forgive" them for now but i think that is just because she's too innocent to realise the weight of their abuse/crime. I can understand why some antagonists are basically angry with Mash.

Murian is just... Murian. Too focused on one thing and how did Oberon killed her if he's actually that strong?? And Woodwose got too honorable of an ending.

Aurora is just like a spoiled little girl who's been raised by a terrible parents. (while she's undeniably hot) i think she got too light of an ending. She didn't suffer enough for all her crimes and manipulations.

And Oberon is just being Oberon. I don't even dare to believe anything he said even though some of them may be true. It could be true or "true", just like Douman. Douman is even more obvious than him.

7

u/ScharmTiger Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I find Morgan and Fae knights sympathetic because they were initially good people but circumstances forced them to change and commit such actions. It’s especially pretty easy to feel sympathy for Morgan, after all she tried the peaceful method for 4000 years and lost everything in the process. She saved the faeries over and over and got backstabbed in the back every single time. We see her struggles and pain and that’s why we are able to empathize with her. Same with Sith, all her reincarnations she was used and abused and killed brutally so it's understandable that she became evil in her current (and last) reincarnation even though I agree you that she went too far with the killings.

Barghest was sympathetic because she was cursed by the Mors King and forced to become something she didn’t want to. Even while cursed, she tries to be a good knight and eventually helps us and was ready to face punishment for her crimes. She is deep down a good person but forced to transform into a man-eating monster due to her cursed nature. And lastly, while I feel Melusine might not be as sympathetic as the others since everything she did was out of her blind love for Aurora, Melusine at least never pretended to be a nice person and even admits that she’s evil at some point so I can’t really hate her. Her killing Aurora and then helping the Chaldea escape from the Abyssal Worm could also be seen as an act of redemption.

So while Morgan and her knights are eventually the villains, there’s reasons behind their actions enough for me to understand and sympathize with them.

1

u/QueenAra2 Jun 19 '25

. Her killing Aurora and then helping the Chaldea escape from the Abyssal Worm could also be seen as an act of redemption.

She killed Aurora for Aurora's sake, not out of any sense of justice or what have you. So I'd only count helpint chaldea in the end.

7

u/Cleansing4ThineEyes Jun 17 '25

they want us to feel sorry for the Fairies, the Fairy Knights, and Morgan,

The worst part is that they clearly could do this with Barghest, but with all the others we're just expected to care because they went through some tough shit I guess

same thing also applies to Oberon

You definitely are not supposed to feel bad for Oberon at all. He's a straight up villain with no redemption, people like him because they respect him, not because he's redeemable.

2

u/Eagle-Eyes- :Artoria: Jun 17 '25

Respect him for what? Gaslighting everyone and attempting to genocide PHH?

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u/SockParticular4936 Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

It's fine that you don't feel sympathy for them, but just keep in mind that most of them were forced to change because they live in a cruel world. See what happened to Hope, the fae you meet in the village. She was too kind, and this made the other fae target and bully her, which ultimately led to her transformation into a Mors. Morgan being a cruel ruler made fae britain survive for 2000 years, and only when she showed weakness after they used her daughter as a hostage did her life end terribly.

The others already explained for Barghest, who tries to redeem herself by siding with us. Now, for Bao and Melusine I wish they had more screentime. I understand Bao was originally too kind just like Hope but her lack of screentime made it hard for me to care about her even though she didn't deserve that ending. Melusine is IMO the worst. I'm sorry but I can't sympathize with someone who blindly follows orders like a dog. The fact that she genocided the Mirror clan and attacked us after Cnoc got killed makes it hard for me to sympathize with her. She is IMO the most selfish fairy knight.

And as much as I love Oberon, you aren't really supposed to feel "sympathy" for him. After all, he is the main villain who manipulated the others such as setting up the Fang clan to genocide the Wing clan. But also the reason why you see many of us speak fondly of him is because he is too well-written as a character it's hard to hate him. I would say his punishment was to fall for eternity inside the Hollow insect. But honestly if you didnt sympathize with any character in LB6 then I think that just means you couldn't like any of them, which is fine.

1

u/Kronos457 Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

Ironically, I sympathize with the backstories of the LB6 Characters. However, in my eyes, several of those characters are Villains/Antagonists who haven't received adequate punishment in the present day (and I don't think they will, since those are things of the past), as there's plenty of evidence that they did horrible things: both on-screen, in the past, and off-screen.

Good Writing or Good Motivations does not mean that the Character is not considered a Villain/Antagonist due to their Questionable or Evil Actions.

The worst offenders of this are Sith and Melusine, where LB6 tries to make us empathize with them or gives them redemption in a rushed and ill-prepared manner. Morgan would also fall into this category: if you take away the time travel section to learn about her past, we have a tyrannical Saberface in the present who barely interacts with Chaldea.

The only ones who are justified are Barghest and Oberon: the former gets the benefit of the doubt since LB6 always puts that Fairy Knight to interfere with Chaldea and even starts to doubt her goals and loyalty. The latter may have understandable motivations, but at least LB6 took the time to let them know the Mothman's motives and intentions before revealing himself to be the Villain (still, I'm surprised he's easily forgiven when he tried to torture and kill us many times in LB6 for Chaldea, but it's not Oberon's problem per se. However, it doesn't take away the strange feeling that it wasn't the Lostbelt King who had to be faced in LB6: Morgan died before that)

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4

u/KN041203 Jun 17 '25

Probably represent her become the new priestess. Would have been good to actually get any more info on that beside Cernunnos having her Invul.

14

u/ZeothTheHedgehog I have found my Queen Jun 16 '25

Honestly feel the Fairy Knights + Morgan were meant to have an event to explain their playability but it just never happened by the existence of that ascension alone.

20

u/mango_pan Jun 16 '25

Barghest and Melusine got a cool boss fight each but Sith just got sidelined with some sentences. I don't even know her role in Cernunnos resurrection if I didn't read the wiki.

10

u/ZeothTheHedgehog I have found my Queen Jun 16 '25

Yeah, I managed to pick up on it, but I can see how missable it is.

Some event where like, say Ritsuka is trapped in some kind of limbo space between the inner sea of the planet and it's surface, and to escape he ends up forced to work with Morgan, who plans to use him to rebuild Faerie Britain.

Maybe have Stage 3 Sith also be with her, and throughout the event we bond with her and Morgan, as run into rampaging variants of Melusine and Barghest that we knock back into their senses.

Eventually the final boss is a demonic knight that seemingly turns out to be Accolon, one of PHH Morgan's lovers who she ended up getting killed in her plots to overthrow Artoria.

You can have this fight be the one that gets LB Morgan to decide she wants to help Ritsuka for real rather than just for her benefit, and brands him "Tam Lin/Fae King Accolon" so they can all take the Demonic Accolon down.

8

u/Kronos457 Jun 17 '25

It's worth remembering that LB6 underwent a rewrite that changed many aspects of the Plot (the most affected were Sith and Morgan)

In fact, the things that Mash does feel out of place or inconsistent compared to her original role (which was supposed to be Morgan's loyal Fairy Knight and right-hand woman)

1

u/mango_pan Jun 17 '25

Wait, Mash was supposed to be Morgan's right hand in the original script after losing her memory? But I think they are quite successful in smoothing it with the time travel thing.

3

u/Kronos457 Jun 17 '25

Mash was supposed to be Morgan's right hand in the original script after losing her memory?

Yes, in the original LB6 version, Mash was going to be the Fairy Knight closest to Morgan, more so than the other three. This allowed Mash to get to know Morgan more closely.

I think they are quite successful in smoothing it with the time travel thing.

My only problem with the Time Travel thing is that that section only served to help understand Morgan's past... when they could have just as easily had Morgan herself tell her story A.K.A. I used to be a kind-hearted Ruler, but circumstances here led me to who I am now (not to mention Mash is written out of the story when she's frozen in Time)

Furthermore, as a matter of the future, the interactions and teachings between Morgan from the past and Mash have not borne fruit or influenced Mash's Development in any way.

61

u/VishnuBhanum HokusaiMyBeloved Jun 16 '25

Wasn't Komachi being Guan Yin Avatar a pretty important reveal? I felt that's at least a very story relevance one.

25

u/RestinPsalm Jun 16 '25

I admittedly forgot that part, though I dunno if her design gives that away, but I'll concede a maybe on her.

21

u/Roliq Jun 16 '25

Typhon is hilarious because you see the ascension regardless on the NP

If the lines were the issue they could have locked them behind event completion or something 

6

u/dcdfvr Jun 17 '25

hers was story locked in that you couldn't even use her story NP until after a certain point in the story. tbh if they had given her a different NP like they did for Draco at the point where youre done fixing her it would have made sense. they had such a good opportunity and fumbled it hard

1

u/HuazlAoi Kagetonyann:3 Waifus’ in gacha hell Jun 17 '25

At least fly a little, like the stardust dragon lancer

20

u/Sergantus Jun 16 '25

Isn't Tut 3rd ascension is direct result of event? 

55

u/PhantasosX Jun 16 '25

yes , but frankly , it's just a gimmick to put his "adult" form.

King Tut was a kid pharaoh with such huge health issues that he died at the age of 18-19yo. With Ascensions been a thing , him been naturally a "Lily" is expected , and the Apollo stuff is just the gimmick to make him grow to his 18yo form.

22

u/RestinPsalm Jun 16 '25

It is, but the actual ascension isn't much of a spoiler so much as the reasons WHY he has that ascension, which a simple profile lock could achieve. I guess an extra "locked for immersion" tier would also contain most of these.

20

u/attikol Jun 16 '25

Durga having a totally unique not even allowed to ascend to stage 3? Every other servant just didnt update the sprite or ascension art. They could also just have it be a mystery for skill 3. Super weird

26

u/Rasetsu0 Touch scaly tails Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

I'm guessing the whole "ascending them at all is locked" thing was supposed to be the OC equivalent of EoR Hidden Names, given how the only other Servant with the same kind of ascension lock needs OC2 cleared. Seems like they had the foresight to cut off the idea early, given how OC3 and OC4 doesn't have anyone with such a lock.

18

u/Neatto69 Jun 16 '25

OC3 has BB Dubai's ascension locked. OC4 doesnt have anyone, but I guess you could technically argue Mash is supposed to fill that role

16

u/Rasetsu0 Touch scaly tails Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

BB Dubai has a similar kind of lock as Oberon, so you could still ascend her all the way to 90 and unlock all three skills. Unlike Durga and Monte Cristo, who can't even be ascended past their second ascension at all until the lock gets removed.

1

u/Jakobstj Jun 17 '25

Durga's lock is also just incredibly silly because it's... not even really a surprising thing? Kali and Durga are different manifestations of the same goddess, that's an incredibly basic thing, what's the point of it being a big secret?

7

u/Kugimaru :ef4: Jun 16 '25

Biscione one is a big spoiler from her event and her whole ouroboros gimmick on it, I think it's unfair to put her with Typhon and komachi

12

u/RestinPsalm Jun 16 '25

The thing is it’s really hard to actually figure out that gimmick just from looking at her, the way someone without context sees, she gets a dress and sometimes changes color to attack. Getting a connection to ourboros simply from the design is an insane stretch of the imagination.

(Again, this is just based on design, I’m assuming her lines would change and could reflect these.)

3

u/PhantasosX Jun 17 '25

Heck , she isn’t even the actual Oroboros, she is the wraith of every nameless dragon slayed by humans.

Basically, because dragons are a big foe in myth , but those are nameless ones slayed by nameless human , they just lean on the myth of Biscione to be summoned.

Biscione have the ability to shift her dragons , so she forced the concept of Oroboros on herself as the strongest dragon she can think of it.

3

u/YanFan123 Yandere Connoisseur and Phantom Kohai Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

Nah man, "Summer" BB was fully underserved and at the time, it seemed like they were trying to pull a fast one on us and make us believe she was Kazuradrop somehow. Only reason I don't hate it more is because eventually they did release Kazuradrop

60

u/jlh28532 Jun 16 '25

Charlie's is plot locked?

112

u/XF10 Jun 16 '25

Yeah "Karl" ascension was Traum-locked but eventually they took down requirements because iirc Traum isn't even obligatory to progress. Idem for Kali

76

u/Athanasoulas Mecha Knight Jun 16 '25

"Karl" ascension didn't even show up in Traum.

Besides I would like a gimmick like mash's where he becomes a ruler in third ascension or smth.

24

u/XF10 Jun 16 '25

Iirc they said the Paladins and Young Moriarty were late additions to the story

13

u/Asafesseidon13 Jun 16 '25

So the OG story was Reinstatement vs Revenge?

14

u/XF10 Jun 16 '25

I mean, Don is still there

0

u/YanFan123 Yandere Connoisseur and Phantom Kohai Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

Don isn't a name

Downvoting doesn't make this not true. Don means mister

3

u/GoldenWhite2408 Jun 17 '25

No the original story was apperently somehow about the fcking french revolution Idek how the fck That was suppose to go but yea

98

u/OchoMuerte-XL Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

Draco, Oberon, and Sen no Rikyu because their 3rd Ascensions have story relevance. Oberon is his true identity as Vortigern which would tip off anyone familiar with Arthurian lore and Draco's 3rd Ascension is tied to her character development in Lilim Harlot. Sen no Rikyu sharing a body/Saint Graph with Komahime is one of the plot twists for their GudaGuda event.

It feels like most Locked 3rd Ascensions feel like an excuse to push players into completing events and story chapters when players already had plenty incentive to do that already. If anything the devs could lock certain spoiler voice lines and ascensions before the appropriate flag is triggered.

214

u/EducationalNarwhal6 HIS name is Caeneus btw Jun 16 '25

Most Oberon and Draco. Least everyone else

34

u/Golf_Machine Jun 16 '25

Same thoughts exactly

49

u/KN041203 Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

Charlesmagne is the least since at least the other ascension actually show up in the climax of their story. BB is next since the few info that are actually spoilery aren't enough to keep that ascension hidden, same with Douman. The rest are either character's true identity or the end of their arc in the story debut.

37

u/GreatAres271 Jun 16 '25

To this day, I don't understand what's so spoilery about 3rd Asc. Douman. You know who is as much, if not a bigger spoiler? KoyaDark and Kirei, and they don't have locks (I know they're NY Servants, and Koyan released after her event, but you get my point).

You know someone who I think should've had an Ascension lock? Van Gogh during Imaginary Scramble

5

u/Jakobstj Jun 17 '25

Yeah Douman's 3rd Asc has no actual spoiler to it, it's not like his evil-ness is hidden before then.

26

u/Silvercenturion_aa Jun 16 '25

Oberon and Draco, since said ascensions are related to major parts of the plot.

53

u/Sergantus Jun 16 '25

Biscione 3rd ascension just doesn't make sense without event. 

59

u/AccountantOk8373 Jun 16 '25

I feel like Oberon is the only one really deserved having the Ascension locked. Some others are fine too, but Oberon felt truly justifiable

22

u/Kazumari Tenochtitlan's number 1 priest Jun 16 '25

Fun fact : Tenochi is both the only SR and permanent servant with a locked ascension.

2

u/Kronos457 Jun 17 '25

Nasu: There are special Servants... and then there is Tenochi, a much more special Servant compared to the special Servants.

24

u/kidanokun Jun 16 '25

Oberon's a friggin spoiler so it definitely deserved being locked

12

u/AiReine “‘sup piglets?” Jun 16 '25

Was just thinking about this with Durga’s temporary lock. Was at least interesting compared to some of the past ones (as in, Charlie)

9

u/matterburner Jun 16 '25

Most: Oberon ,kali and Draco with how heavy involved these ascensions are with the story they were presented in.

Least: Even though I love him, Charlemagne, if you played Extella link you would already know about the whole King Charles situation. Also this ascension doesn’t show up in traum and Charlemagne showing up was supposed to be like a surprise even though he was the first Traum banner character

20

u/Crowe-Chronos Haku is Here! Jun 16 '25

Most: Oberon, Rikyu, Draco and Douman

Least: Charlemagne (doesn't show up at all), Typhoon(its in her fuckin NP for God's sake) and Biscione

Everyone else falls under what I call "I don't think it was necessary but I understand why they did it."

7

u/aethersentinel Jun 16 '25

Maybe you can explain this to me. What is a spoiler about Douman's different outfit? I expected to understand this after finishing Heian-Kyo and I just ended up puzzled.

9

u/Crowe-Chronos Haku is Here! Jun 16 '25

Its mostly just the attack animations and lines. Plus the design itself is basically him fully unleashing the other components of his saint graph. It isn't THAT spoilery but it is still just enough for me to include it.

4

u/ArchusKanzaki Jun 16 '25

Biscione's sorta does not make any sense if you did not take her event so its spoilery in that way.

19

u/SockParticular4936 Jun 16 '25

Most deserving is definitely Oberon.

Least deserved I would say is Charlie.

7

u/ArchusKanzaki Jun 16 '25

Typhon's proooobably does not need to be locked.... But maybe its because they wanted to switchup the armored form with this one?

Charlie is probably the only weird decision since its like.... Not that used at all in the end? Its like locking 3rd ascension because there is an Extella Link thing going on.

23

u/XF10 Jun 16 '25

Image missing:Kali,Tezcatlipoca,Tenochtitlan,Kukulkan,Sirius(HibiChika) and Montecristo

23

u/BruhSoundE Jun 16 '25

Tez feels less deserved than it looks, I have no idea what the plot relevance for hiding his final ascension is but I highly doubt it's worth having new players be locked away from seeing it till they reach the LB's, Just give me the NP animation Lasengle his first one sucks

13

u/atropicalpenguin Jun 16 '25

And Kali/Durga's is silly, you don't need to play Paper Moon to unlock Durga's Kali.

13

u/SuperSpiritShady Bonin' mah Sword Jun 16 '25

You had to for the first two weeks iirc, afterwards, the lock was completely lifted. (For JP at least, idk about NA) It was the same case as well for Monte Cristo.

It’s unique since unlike all these other locked ascensions, you’re incapable of ascending these servants and getting their third skill until you actually reached the point behind the spoiler (within the first two weeks). After the two weeks were done, the lock was completely lifted, so ascending them is no different from a normal servant.

4

u/XF10 Jun 16 '25

Procrastinating doing Paper Moon and can confirm i still could get Kali ascension. It's same deal as Charlie's Karl ascension

3

u/SuperSpiritShady Bonin' mah Sword Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

Charlie's Ascension is locked behind a Saint Graph Unlock Quest + Traum clear.

Durga/Kali does not have a Saint Graph Unlock Quest, and as said, the lock was temporary (only 2 weeks) blocking you from going to Ascension 3 and getting the third skill until you cleared OC1.

Again, only really referring to what happened on JP. Didn't get Durga on NA, so idk if the same case happened, but if it didn't, I'd like to know.

2

u/XF10 Jun 16 '25

I just told you. Kali is already unlocked on NA even without Paper Moon clear and Charlie's quest is also available even without Traum clear

Even wiki says it: "Before June 15th 2022, you had to clear Traum to unlock this quest."

3

u/SuperSpiritShady Bonin' mah Sword Jun 16 '25

Yeah, the Durga/Kali part is expected. Two weeks have already passed and her banner is gone, should be no different from ascending a non-locked servant.

For Charlie tho, probably an oversight on my part. Apolovies if it seemed I was aggressive, I didn't mean to be so.

2

u/XF10 Jun 16 '25

I ascended her during first week of her banner

8

u/MokonaModokiES Insert text here Jun 16 '25

Kuku and Sirius are the most justified because it ties in with character developments and the plot.

7

u/lepe-lepe Jun 16 '25

Tezca, I don't understand why the 3rd ascension is locked. Neither the NP nor his appearance spoil much of anything.

6

u/Unhappy_Comparison59 Jun 16 '25

I dont know if that is a hot take but recently locked ascensions feel a little over used maybe so because for most there is no reason besides keeping the hype for a little longer one of my biggest let down was BB actually thinking to see something very outstanding with how the Event itself was time locked just to get golden bunny girl

18

u/MKW69 Jun 16 '25

Best- Oberon. Like he is seminal to LB 6 plot. Least- Biscione and Douman. They're kinda spoilery, but i don't think they have that much weight sadly.

25

u/StandardN02b Do it for them Jun 16 '25

No event servant should have their FA locked, by the very nature of events that are temporary.

The only one justified is Oberon.

32

u/RestinPsalm Jun 16 '25

Event locks are simply removed after the event, to be fair.

-7

u/StandardN02b Do it for them Jun 16 '25

Then they shouldn't exist in the first place.

9

u/Taedirk Grail-kun flair when? Jun 16 '25

Makes more money putting the event star on the day 1 banner and locking FA than waiting a week to avoid the spoilers.

-4

u/StandardN02b Do it for them Jun 16 '25

What spoilers? Biscone is a dragon? Karl der Große is Charlemagne? Douman is extra evil? Tutankhamun is egyptian? Nero is Draco? I guess you could make a case for Sen no Rikyu, tho.

3

u/Radiant-Hope-469 We will never reach 2018 Jun 16 '25

We already knew Biscione was a dragon. Her name already gives that away. It's just that she's also has the concept of Ouroboros and all the other nameless dragons found in stories.

3

u/Taedirk Grail-kun flair when? Jun 17 '25

Draco spends most of her event being a tiny evil one way ticket to the FBI watch list. Douman's final form is all about him being more than just the Limbo we've seen up until Heyan-kyo. Charlemagne's FA is proof that Lasagna knows Fate/Extella Link exists but won't give us Altera Larva, Archimedes, or Saber Venus Nero.

4

u/soulesssapphire Jun 16 '25

I really wish there was a way to use the servant with the unlocked ascension if you have the content that is required cleared if you are using the servant as support. The requirement to have the character AND do a quest to even benefit from the support character in its full ascension is annoying, for me at least.

You know what they are, you are not getting spoiled by any means if you have cleared the content in which that ascension was shown. Let me use my friends edgy and sleep deprived Oberon.

11

u/Ieriz Eternally simping for Ruler Moriarty Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

Biscione is by far the least relevant, 0 relevance to her story. Also in general she's such a stretch of a character, she barely exists. And Vitch's "I am the Tunguska Event" was a horse in the stretch race.

12

u/rainazuma77 Jun 16 '25

She isn't even the Tunguska event. She is the incarnation of the anger and grief of the animals that died during the event and mistakenly thought they were murdered by humans lol

7

u/Nanashi14 Jun 16 '25

her true identity is what helps us saves the residents of the singularity and ultimately bring down the creator by opening up a weakness for him. Agreed on Vitch however I still think they red herring'd that for too long.

2

u/ArchusKanzaki Jun 16 '25

Yeah, she's such a stretch of character, but I guess its kinda thematic for that particular event.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '25

Oberon, Kali, and Draco

3

u/KamiiPlus saving for pseudo patxi Jun 16 '25

Almost every 3rd ascension thats locked is actually important to the character and/or their development through the event and are all fine, more often then not it is made to tie into what the character is/isnt able to do in the event

The only one who ACTUALLY doesnt fit is 100% charlie though

1

u/KamiiPlus saving for pseudo patxi Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

My take on locked ascensions has always been "this is the star of the event who develops as they go through it, locking a part of it not to spoil is perfectly fine" because we see the servant develop over like, a week and even then for event servants we still get their skills, not a big deal imo

But also BBs links to like, her character arcs conclusion and also dubais story as a whole, up there with most deserved

3

u/Top_Use3290 Jun 17 '25

dude forget that Durga 3rd acension+skill was locked

3

u/konodiowry Jun 17 '25

Ik there’s a reason for Draco ascension but its just look so weak and boring compare to Mother Harlot form that Arcade have

3

u/Leyrran Jun 17 '25

Oberon, Draco obviously. Then i would say Rikyu, Komachi (her ascension was the plot twist of her event), Tut and Biscione.

The others feels underserved, no tie to the story for Karl, BB was quite disappointing (locking the final ascension was enough since the background is a bit spoilery), for Douman and Typhon it didn't seem necessary.

4

u/ReadySource3242 Broke but not hopeless Jun 16 '25

Most is everyone who’s third ascension is important to plot, least is everyone else

4

u/Whole-Signature4130 :Caren: the saint of useless knowledge Jun 16 '25

Morgan deserves more. Her og profile has a set of outfits barely have more variety than kagetora. And kagetora has her default and her costume that simply has a scarf added.

Her summer skin, aesc. Has only 1 morgan ascension.

2

u/SockParticular4936 Jun 17 '25

Couldn't agree more. I blame this on Takeuchi for being a lazy artist. I wish someone else would draw Morgan. The only ascension I like are her 3rd and Winter Queen attire. First and second ascensions look so similar. And yeah she absolutely was done dirty for her summer form. I'm still going to roll for her but it's disappointing that she only has 1 summer outfit while her knights have multiple outfits. I hope when Morgan gets another alt she wont be stuck with Tonelico again.

1

u/YanFan123 Yandere Connoisseur and Phantom Kohai Jun 17 '25

Toneriko*

2

u/1lluusio I love the kind of girl that will just poison me Jun 16 '25

Most deserved ones are Rikyu/Komahime, Oberon, and Draco

2

u/Saltlessguy :Castoria: Jun 16 '25

BB Dubai is the worst.    

For one single thing. Forced supports with BB Cosmos without her 3rd skills for most of OC3.    

2

u/Radiant-Hope-469 We will never reach 2018 Jun 16 '25

Btw you forgot Azumi-no-Isora

2

u/SSJSonikku Jun 16 '25

Haven't done any of them, Nero Draco. Absolutely worth it for me.

2

u/Nanashi14 Jun 16 '25

Least is Karl cause it wasn't even used

I don't like Typhon and Tut's being locked (and they more or less spoil Typhon's anyway) but it's related to the event story conclusion so it makes some sense

Most is Oberon and Draco

2

u/Cool-Ad-8706 Jun 16 '25

From the ones that I've seen as an NA player I would say the teo most important ones are Oberon and Kuku since their 3rd ascension is very relevant in story, especially Oberons imo.

As for least is Charlie's, bro didnt even flex that

2

u/VishnuBhanum HokusaiMyBeloved Jun 16 '25

I had a personal gripe with Draco ascension lock.

I spent like 240SQ on her JP banner specifically because I have waited for playable Beast for so long, and I expected her 3rd/FA to be the Beast VI from Arcade(I don't think it's entirely my fault for expecting that since that form was literally on the back of her class card)

And then when the Final Ascension was revealed, She ended up being the least Beast-like out of everyone(Hell, Larva Tiamat felt more like a beast than her)

And like it's not bad or anything, just not what I wanted from the Beast servant(Especially for the first playable one) If I had knew from the start, I wouldn't have spent so much SQ on that banner.

3

u/Taedirk Grail-kun flair when? Jun 16 '25

The Tamamo 9+ threatened a C&D order after seeing those fluffy ears in the arcade portrait. Koyan's way too entrenched now for anyone to make waves.

4

u/PerfectMuratti Jun 16 '25

Same i am not a fan of that design. Of course it shouldnt be as evil looking as Arcade one but just something different than this.

1

u/PhantasosX Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

To add into ou and u/PerfectMuratti conversation.

My problem with Beast Draco is that the whole reason of her taking that form is that she is saved of her path of been Beast VI...so why bother to make 3rd Asc been on that class?

Not to pretend to be a dev or anything like that, but it seems to be better if the event started with Gudao been forced to be a master of a Beast, but the end of the event had Draco as Rider , while a debuffed Mother Harlot is an Alter-Ego or vice-versa , with a passive skill to let them been "Beast VI" Class Affinity if you tag team with them.

EDIT: heck, if they want to still hold the Beast-Class as a distinct class in the gacha pull , they could add the Angra Mainyuu on top of it , so that either Draco or Mother Harlot ends up with Beast VI by default , without the needing of the tag team of the other.

14

u/MokonaModokiES Insert text here Jun 16 '25

she is saved of her path of been Beast VI...so why bother to make 3rd Asc been on that class?

No she remains a beast by the end of the story. She was saved from her own suicidal desire not from the class.

It was about embracing what she truly felt like and reflecting on why she truly loved humanity. She didnt throw away her love like all the other beast(Like Tiamat accepting humanity doesnt need her anymore). She fully embraced her status as a beast but it was changed to a much healthier mindset of being the companion of humanity until their end.

0

u/PhantasosX Jun 16 '25

The whole reason a Beast is a Beast is that they have a warped sense of love for humanity, enveloping into a "Sin" that represents an "Evil of Humanity", if their love ended up in a healthier mindset , there is no reason to mantain the beasthood itself.

We already have non-beast Neros that loves humanity , and a non-beast Merlin. And technically, Fou is the Beast that we "defeated" peacefully. Even the case of Tiamat still makes her act motherly to us and to others.

The hold on of her beasthood is more like a way to avoid making Draco and Mother Harlot into distinct Servants in the gacha roll.

10

u/MokonaModokiES Insert text here Jun 16 '25

The healthier mindset is for herself not for humanity. And Draco fully recognices it as the incarnadines call her out on the potential of her destroying humanity and that she wont have a happy ending.

yet she will still go through that path because she finds it beautifull.

They are very straight forward about explaining it.

https://youtu.be/wpWz3lHhcng?t=16508

-3

u/One_Wrong_Thymine Jun 16 '25

Nahhh Tiamat did NOT give up being a mom. She's just not in a state where her Beast form can mature. Like Fou. Fou can still Beast out if he has the magical energy, but humanity isn't thriving so Primate Killer can't activate. I don't know what's the prerequisite for Tiamat's activation though.

10

u/MokonaModokiES Insert text here Jun 16 '25

Tiamat acting like a mom doesnt change the fact she decided to let humanity go. She still feels like a mother but she has recogniced that she shouldnt force them to stay with her forever.

Its the case of "leaving the nest" Tiamat as a beast was against humanity leaving the nest. but after her defeat she accepted that humanity can leave the nest on their own and keep going.

-1

u/One_Wrong_Thymine Jun 16 '25

Until she doesn't accept them leaving anymore that is. Beast turns on and off all the time.

1

u/Hiromagi Jun 16 '25

Oberon’s is a massive spoiler. For many of the event related characters, that’s pretty unnecessary after the event. Draco’s is pretty much a spoiler only in that event which is fine.

But again, Oberon is MSQ. Which is what most people will experience. Not everyone will play the event story, where most people will tackle an MSQ.

1

u/Mr_Vilu Jun 16 '25

oberon, charlie and douman are the only ones that really changed

1

u/mirrors8 Jun 16 '25

Oberon and Rikyu are the best surprises!

1

u/Picmanreborn Jun 17 '25

The thing that pisses me off about Charlie is that since I had him maxed but didn't beat traum before they lifted the restriction.... I literally just can't even get the 3rd and 4th ascension dialogue in my chaldea to even figure out what it is

1

u/Azuremagus2005 Jun 17 '25

Most deserved is Oberon, Draco and Bb imo

Least deserved is charlie

1

u/YanFan123 Yandere Connoisseur and Phantom Kohai Jun 17 '25

"Summer" BB

1

u/Hiarus234 Jun 16 '25

If you ask me every single one of them is bullshit excluding Oberon's

1

u/Zeta42 Jun 16 '25

Richard's. Like what the fuck is even that

1

u/Xatu44 Mysterious Shitposter X Jun 16 '25

Worth it: Oberon, Biscione, Draco, Tut
Eh I guess: BBDubai, Komachi, Rikyu
Fraud: Charlie, Ephemeros, DOMAN

1

u/Aldaric Jun 16 '25

Oberon is the only one.

1

u/171194Joy6 Jun 16 '25

Most- Oberon

Least- BB and that dragon girl

0

u/Shin-Bufuman SWIMSUIT LIPPY! Jun 16 '25

Least deserved: BBD, who should never have been a thing at all, that summer SSR slot should've gone to Lip

-6

u/SickAnto Jun 16 '25

Draco only because the design is probably one of the worst and most disappointing I've ever seen in FGO.

0

u/FaeRequiem Jun 16 '25

Oberon, Draco, Tezca.

0

u/WatanabeYunosuke Jun 17 '25

Sen no ryu for least

Orbeon for most