My country disowned me after Israel–Gaza ruling - Sebutinde

[u/posixthreads]

https://www.monitor.co.ug/uganda/news/national/my-country-disowned-me-after-israel-gaza-ruling-sebutinde-5153060

[u/TooobHoob]

Comes as a surprise to absolutely no one who read the dissenting opinion, but still surprising a judge would be stupid enough to state that out loud.

[u/posixthreads]

This is a shocking report, that has gained traction and there are now calls to remove or disqualify the vice-president of the ICJ. I cannot emphasize enough how insane the supposed statements being made are:

I have a very strong conviction that we are in the End Times....I want to be on the right side of history.

This is going to completely throw Gambia v. Myanmar and South Africa v. Israel into disarray. The Gambia case is going to set a precedent for South Africa's case, which means she could very well be poisoning that case as well to weaken South Africa's case. As to why she would openly make such a statement, I'm not going to speculate here due to the subreddit's rules. There have been previous articles examining the idea that she may be taken her opinions directly from her church elders. There are also allegations that she has outright plagarised her court opinion. This was all speculation, even if likely, but this is the first time we've seen hard evidence of her bad-faith behavior, a clear insight into her actual thinking.

As for the process of removing a judge from the ICJ, this paper provides an excellent overview of the process. There are two outcomes:

1. Removal: The other elected judges of the ICJ must unanimously vote to have her removed. If this doesn't work, then the court is truly poisoned. This is as disqualifying a statement as it can get.

2. Disqualification: That means they remain members of the court, but they may no longer participate in any proceedings where the bias likely exists. Previous attempts to do this have occurred in other cases, but these have all been a result of past legal work or declarations of the judges.

This is the first time in history we've seen a judge openly express a personal bias, a religious one at that, outside of a legal opinion. The disqualifying statement here was made at a private event for a prominent Pentecostal Church in Uganda, of which Judge Sebutinde is known to be a prominent member of.

There is currently an effort to have her disqualified if not removed. I would argue she needs to be removed as soon as possible before the oral proceedings of Gambia v. Myanmar. More so, she needs to be voted out of her position as Vice-President of the ICJ.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/posixthreads]

This is a shocking report

That is an understatement. My jaw literally dropped reading:

“There are now about 30 countries against Israel…the Lord is counting on me to stand with Israel”

I’ve seen criticism of Sebutinde's dissenting opinion and personally recall her interpretation of uti possidetis juris in the context of the mandate being pretty ridiculous, but this report is gobsmacking.

It’s also fills me with a sense of irony considering how often I’ve seen aspersions cast towards judges like Salam simply because he is Lebanese. Now we see genuine disqualifying beliefs and it’s not coming from the side often pointed to.

[u/PitonSaJupitera → u/FerdinandTheGiant]

I really don't see how the court can have her not removed.

This isn't a judge having poor logic, she's outright admitting following irrational religious motivation divorced from law or common sense.

Random person picked up from the streets outside the ICJ would probably come to legal conclusions with more merit.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/[deleted]]

She essentially follows Bell and Kontorovich’s interpretation of UPJ and their position is not normative nor particularly conservative.

There’s been a decent bit written about their and Sebutinde’s positions so I’ll suggest David Kretzmer’s and/or André de Hoogh’s piece on the subject.

[u/GlassBit7081 → u/FerdinandTheGiant]

Thank you so much! First I've seen of Kretzmer's argument. However, it's scarily weak. In summary, Israel AND all states involved in the West Bank dispute do NOT declare borders. AND because Israel has never formally declared it wants ALL of the UTJ territories it's claims are weakened. So...if Israel did formally declare those borders its UTJ case would be stronger.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/GlassBit7081]

So...if Israel did formally declare those borders its UTJ case would be stronger.

Had Israel done so in 1948 (or as Hoogh argues, 1923) his argument would be somewhat weaker, but as he notes in his conclusion, for the current situation:

There is no precedent for application of the uti possidetis principle when not only the newly established State itself does not claim that it is inheriting the colonial borders but shows in its actions that it does not regard those borders as its borders.

That a State’s appetite for territory grows, when 20 years after independence it expands its control beyond its independence borders, can in no way change the fact that it did not claim to have inherited the borders of the colonial power that ruled the territory before it became independent.

[u/GlassBit7081 → u/FerdinandTheGiant]

Agreed. There are some other issues with this, which I fear are taking us too far away from Intl Law and towards politics. Israel DID declare sovereignty of all of Jerusalem, consistently and explicitly, and extended authority there as quickly as practicable (except, HILARIOUSLY on the Temple Mount). So, their case is PARTICULARLY strong in Jerusalem, EXCEPT for the Temple Mount.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/GlassBit7081]

Israel DID declare sovereignty of all of Jerusalem, consistently and explicitly

Can you expand on this? Kretzmer explicitly addresses Jerusalem in his argument showing explicitly that they did not claim sovereignty over the territory, citing in part a May, 1948 UN Security Council meeting, so I’m wondering where your position comes from.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/[deleted]]

I’m not particularly sure what I am to glean from this.

[u/TolPM71 → u/posixthreads]

Not a lawyer, but if a judge literally pre judges the outcome of a case before the facts have been brought before the court, does that not disqualify them? Are they competent to judge without fear or favour?

[u/In_der_Tat → u/posixthreads]

How did such a figure manage to be appointed as ICJ judge? Is there not a vetting process? If so, did it fail?

[u/internationallaw-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

We require that each post and comment, to at least some degree, promotes critical discussion, mutual learning or sharing of relevant information. Posts that do not engage with the law or promote discussion will be removed.

[u/defixiones]

Didn't Finkelstein identify numerous examples of plagiarism in her dissenting view?

[u/Abject-Opportunity50 → u/defixiones]

Yeah, up to 32%. There's 50 examples that span 32 pages.

Her contributions to South Africa's ICJ case also verbatim copy and paste Israel's arguments word for word.

[u/Sisyphuss5MinBreak → u/Abject-Opportunity50]

Respectfully, could you provide sources for your two claims?

[u/defixiones → u/Sisyphuss5MinBreak]

I can't be bothered but I'm sure you can paste it into Google.

[u/Sisyphuss5MinBreak → u/defixiones]

Let me be more blunt.

As a mod, we like to keep a high-caliber of discourse in this subreddit. You make an accusatory claim that Sebutinde's contributions were plagiarized and that it was a "verbatim copy" of Israel's arguments.

This comment doesn't meet the bar we try to uphold here. Please provide sources to back up your statements, or I will delete your comment for being low effort.

[u/defixiones → u/Sisyphuss5MinBreak]

I think you have confused my comment with the other poster. However, on their behalf I'm happy to provide a source that compares Sebutinde's dissent with the documents she plagiarised;

New President of the ICJ — Plagiarism in Service of Zionism

This is not a 'claim' as such, the Sebutinde scandal has been documented and open for months and the Ugandan government have long since distanced themselves from her unorthodox published opinions.

Uganda cuts ties with Judge Julia Sebutinde for favouring Israel at ICJ

This is before she publicly unveiled her unusual eschatological religious opinions and conviction that the Israeli genocide is divinely inspired;

ICJ vice-president: 'The Lord is counting on me to stand on the side of Israel'

[u/Sisyphuss5MinBreak → u/defixiones]

Fantastic. Thank you for the supporting links and keeping up the level of discourse here.

[u/anaconda4290 → u/defixiones]

The first time I heard about Sebutinde was from Finkelstein last year, I can’t believe she’s still on the case or the court itself.

[u/soulstriderx → u/defixiones]

Finkelstein doesn't get enough praise for his work.

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[u/willpeetrz]

There are 15 judges on the court. Her incompetence aside, does the president have any extra sway that could sabotage a case? The Israelis are apoplectic over the case. They’ve been doing everything and anything to damage the case. It’s why Trump baselessly accused South Africa of genocide.

[u/EarthWormJim18164 → u/willpeetrz]

Baselessly? Lol