My country disowned me after Israel–Gaza ruling - Sebutinde

[u/posixthreads]

https://www.monitor.co.ug/uganda/news/national/my-country-disowned-me-after-israel-gaza-ruling-sebutinde-5153060

[u/FerdinandTheGiant]

She essentially follows Bell and Kontorovich’s interpretation of UPJ and their position is not normative nor particularly conservative.

There’s been a decent bit written about their and Sebutinde’s positions so I’ll suggest David Kretzmer’s and/or André de Hoogh’s piece on the subject.

[u/GlassBit7081 → u/FerdinandTheGiant]

Thank you so much! First I've seen of Kretzmer's argument. However, it's scarily weak. In summary, Israel AND all states involved in the West Bank dispute do NOT declare borders. AND because Israel has never formally declared it wants ALL of the UTJ territories it's claims are weakened. So...if Israel did formally declare those borders its UTJ case would be stronger.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/GlassBit7081]

So...if Israel did formally declare those borders its UTJ case would be stronger.

Had Israel done so in 1948 (or as Hoogh argues, 1923) his argument would be somewhat weaker, but as he notes in his conclusion, for the current situation:

There is no precedent for application of the uti possidetis principle when not only the newly established State itself does not claim that it is inheriting the colonial borders but shows in its actions that it does not regard those borders as its borders.

That a State’s appetite for territory grows, when 20 years after independence it expands its control beyond its independence borders, can in no way change the fact that it did not claim to have inherited the borders of the colonial power that ruled the territory before it became independent.

[u/GlassBit7081 → u/FerdinandTheGiant]

Agreed. There are some other issues with this, which I fear are taking us too far away from Intl Law and towards politics. Israel DID declare sovereignty of all of Jerusalem, consistently and explicitly, and extended authority there as quickly as practicable (except, HILARIOUSLY on the Temple Mount). So, their case is PARTICULARLY strong in Jerusalem, EXCEPT for the Temple Mount.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/GlassBit7081]

Israel DID declare sovereignty of all of Jerusalem, consistently and explicitly

Can you expand on this? Kretzmer explicitly addresses Jerusalem in his argument showing explicitly that they did not claim sovereignty over the territory, citing in part a May, 1948 UN Security Council meeting, so I’m wondering where your position comes from.

[u/FerdinandTheGiant → u/[deleted]]

I’m not particularly sure what I am to glean from this.