Judo black belt Islam Makhachev with beautiful technique and execution

[u/Wise-Self-4845]

can you guys name all of these techniques? I got all except one hahah

[u/crashcap]

I think its quite funny that judo is by all metrics a lesser art in MMA terms but some of the GOATs are highly skilled in it. Fedor was also pretty good

[u/Mobile-Estate-9836 → u/crashcap]

It's really not and this is a huge misconception. If you look at the overseas MMA orgs, especially Asian and Eastern European ones, their fighters and champions are filled with former judoka. I used to believe this falsehood too until I really went down the rabbit hole and realized how many people have judo in their background, but they're never given credit for it because Americans don't value Judo.

Problem is, Americans think everything revolves around them, so they only recognize the dominant arts in the America's like wrestling and boxing.

[u/powerhearse → u/Mobile-Estate-9836]

There are nowhere near as many Judoka at all levels of MMA as there are wrestlers, boxers etc. As you mentioned in another comment the IJF and the Judo attitude towards MMA is a big part of the reason for this. In France the Judo governing bodies blocked the legalisation of MMA for decades

No MMA organisation in the world is "filled with former Judoka". That is simply not the case. The only ones are arguably the Russian organisations and generally those Judoka are exposed to MMA adjacent competition rulesets like Combat Sambo a lot earlier

The fact is it isn't a falsehood. There aren't many Judoka in MMA

[u/Mobile-Estate-9836 → u/powerhearse]

You must of missed the part where I said Asia and Eastern European mma orgs. Judo is huge in Asia. Fighters in that region statistically have a high likihood of having trained in it, exposed to it, or competed in it. Same case with the other martial arts that are prevalent over there (i.e. MT, Sambo, TKD). It's similar to wrestling and bjj in America. Maybe not to the same degree, but prevalent. Off the top of my head, Shinya Aoki, Ayaka Hamasaki, Donghae Hyun Kim, Yushin Okami, Yoshiro Akiyama, and Fedor all competed in Japanese or European orgs before ever coming over to American ones. That's not even accounting for those in Pride. You also had recently Olivier Aubin-Mercier in PFL.

Saying there aren't many judoka in MMA is insane when you've literally had 6 of the top 10-15 GOATs of MMA (Fedor, Islam, Khabib, Ronda, Shevckenko, Merab) all have Judo blackbelts.

[u/powerhearse → u/Mobile-Estate-9836]

Oof there's a lot to address here haha

There aren't COMPARATIVELY many Judoka in MMA compared to people from other backgrounds. That applies equally to Asian and Eastern European organisations. Wrestling is absolutely huge in Eastern Europe and there's an absolute shitload of MMA fighters from a wrestling background there, way more than from a Judo background

In Asia there's a huge amount of MMA fighters from a striking background, more than from anything else. You're thinking of the very early eras where MMA was dominated by fighters from Shooto and similar backgrounds, MMA rulesets which existed pre UFC. However, kickboxing was way bigger in Japan than MMA was, and that only changed under a decade ago (in fact it could even still be the case).

And don't make me address this Shevchenko shit again haha. She has an honorary Judo blackbelt and has never competed in Judo

You've listed a bunch of names but not accounted for the fact that the vast, overwhelming majority of UFC champions are from a wrestling background. The overwhelming majority of UFC champions have also been from the US or Brazil, despite the secondary birthplace of MMA being in Japan where Judo is huge.

Even in Pride, the majority of fighters were not from a Judo background.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Judo and I hope more Judoka make the transition as the highest level examples (those you've mentioned plus folks like Karo Parisyan) are truly spectacular. And with the amount of training it requires to transition from ANY other art, the discussion is academic anyway. The fact is the best base for MMA is MMA, nothing else compares

However, your view of the relevance of Judo training to MMA is just unrealistic. Your view of the relevance of gi training to MMA is unrealistic. And its important to point that out so that people stay grounded and realistic about their capabilities

[u/misterandosan → u/powerhearse]

Even in Pride, the majority of fighters were not from a Judo background.

Neither were they wrestlers. Which proves that wrestling is only a large factor in the UFC because of the convenience of having a local wrestling culture in the US.

If you normalised the amount of competitors from each country that do wrestling, and how many of them become champions vs judo and other martial arts backgrounds, the ratio wouldnt be good.

Saying the majority of champions have a wrestling background when the UFC has been flooded with excollegiate wrestlers from the US is biased. If the US had a more diverse martial arts culture, yet champions were still from a wrestling backgrounds, you would have a point.

It's not really about the martial art a lot of the time but how you apply it. If hundreds of US wrestlers enter the MMA scene, at least a few are going to champions based on attrition.

relevance of Judo training to MMA

This is true in that beginners shouldn't pick up judo for MMA, the learning curve is far too steep to start as an adult, but learning judo principles can help overall grappling.

[u/misterandosan → u/powerhearse]

I mean the UFC is essentially a repository for ex collegiate wrestlers from the US with no career prospects.

A career in MMA is fucking expensive and not at all worth it for the majority of elite athletes, especially from overseas.

Wrestling being the main martial art in the US, where the UFC is based is the main reason the wrestling is popular, not necessarily the merits of the sport alone.

[u/powerhearse → u/misterandosan]

A career in MMA is across the board more lucrative than amateur sports unless you're winning the Olympics

MMA is also a worldwide sport, and wrestling is actually popular worldwide not just in the US.

What are the career prospects for former Olympic Judoka in their 30s? Most end up working another job or entering a career unrelated to martial arts. Most are working a job alongside their Olympic aspirations

At least at the highest levels of MMA the athletes are full time professionals; though of course enormous pay issues exist

There's a reason boxers win the Olympics before their professional careers, not after. Professional combat sports pay better

[u/misterandosan → u/powerhearse]

A career in MMA is across the board more lucrative than amateur sports

Sports renumeration is extremely broad and country dependent. Your lack of knowledge on the judo scene shows here.

Actually, I don't think you realise how expensive it is to be an MMA fighter either. Consider that many UFC fighters have to hold second jobs, where as elite judoka from strong judo countries do not have that problem

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulgift/2019/04/17/expenses-of-being-professional-cage-fighter-ufc-bellator-mma-news/

wrestling is actually popular worldwide not just in the US.

Exactly my point. Explain the lack of prominance for world wide wrestlers in the UFC. The U.S. doesn't have the best wrestlers in the world by a long shot. They have the numbers from the local scene. A handful of those are obviously going to be champions.

[u/powerhearse → u/misterandosan]

Sports renumeration is extremely broad and country dependent. Your lack of knowledge on the judo scene shows here.

My point was ON AVERAGE. Perhaps your reading comprehension could use some work

Actually, I don't think you realise how expensive it is to be an MMA fighter either. Consider that many UFC fighters have to hold second jobs, where as elite judoka from strong judo countries do not have that problem

I have literally fought MMA professionally. Not for a living, but I'm more aware of the costs involved than you are

99.9% of elite Judoka have jobs. A much higher percentage than UFC fighters with jobs. Most UFC fighters do not hold second jobs, or if they do are in MMA coaching roles. Your comment shows your clear lack of experience and knowledge in the MMA world

Exactly my point. Explain the lack of prominance for world wide wrestlers in the UFC. The U.S. doesn't have the best wrestlers in the world by a long shot. They have the numbers from the local scene. A handful of those are obviously going to be champions.

There isn't a lack of world wide wrestlers. The strongest wrestling countries such as Russia and Georgia are represented at the championship level in the UFC. Not sure where you're getting this US central idea from

Also, the best base for MMA in the modern era is MMA. Fighters like Khabib and Islam who are touted as "judoka" have actually been training for MMA their entire lives. Transitioning from elite grappling and striking combat sports to MMA is becoming less common as the sport of MMA evolved and becomes more popular