Judo black belt Islam Makhachev with beautiful technique and execution

[u/Wise-Self-4845]

can you guys name all of these techniques? I got all except one hahah

[u/powerhearse]

Because it doesn't translate well. Islam has spent the overwhelming majority of his time training no gi, as has every Judoka who has had success in MMA

You won't be going into MMA fights, even on the most basic amateur level, and doing this with only gi Judo training

[u/misterandosan → u/powerhearse]

True, but they have a point in that learning with the gi helps with many judo principles. It'd give you the control and finesse you need to understand how certain techniques work.

You're right in that substantial no gi mat time is needed to apply this to MMA. The grips and setups are different.

[u/powerhearse → u/misterandosan]

I dont think learning with the gi offers anything that just training for the actual contest doesn't already offer

[u/misterandosan → u/powerhearse]

It's more difficult to teach judo concepts in a no-gi context only.

Learning with the gi actually does help with the finer points of balance manipulation, and leverage.

The people who apply judo to mma or nogi situations started with the judogi, including khabib. If you just start training in no-gi judo, you'd be a lot less aware of what is possible with things that require timing and finesse like footsweeps and trips. When you have control over someone's gi, it lets you feel the finer details of moves because the control is more "broad" if that makes sense.

Without the gi, things are less predictable and slippery, so it's harder to nail these concepts down until you're familiar with what things should feel like when you execute properly. People would just default to regular wrestling and not go through the high learning curve judo requires. People who are starting in mma shouldn't necessarily go down this path depending on their goals.

There are benefits to gi training, but if all you do is focus on gi training, then obviously that won't help as much.

[u/powerhearse → u/misterandosan]

It's more difficult to teach judo concepts in a no-gi context only.

Thats because Judo is not a no gi art. Learning no gi grappling means training no gi grappling and Judo has a gi specific curriculum

Learning with the gi actually does help with the finer points of balance manipulation, and leverage.

Not in a way relevant to no gi. It teaches you finer points that don't translate. You are always better off training for the ruleset and uniform you will compete with

The people who apply judo to mma or nogi situations started with the judogi, including khabib.

Untrue. Khabib has always trained no gi. His MMA debut was before he was an adult. His father always had him competing in wrestling as well as Judo and combat sambo

If you just start training in no-gi judo, you'd be a lot less aware of what is possible with things that require timing and finesse like footsweeps and trips. When you have control over someone's gi, it lets you feel the finer details of moves because the control is more "broad" if that makes sense.

This is not true. Foot sweeps and trips are common in no gi styles like wrestling and training from those backgrounds will always translate better to no gi than a jacket wrestling style wil

When you have control over someone's gi, it lets you feel the finer details of moves because the control is more "broad" if that makes sense.

The control isn't just "broad", it's completely different and 99% inapplicable to no gi in terms of the gripfighting, off balancing and entry distance

Without the gi, things are less predictable and slippery, so it's harder to nail these concepts down until you're familiar with what things should feel like when you execute properly.

This is a common misconception. No gi isn't necessarily faster paced than gi

People would just default to regular wrestling and not go through the high learning curve judo requires.

"Regular wrestling" also has a high learning curve. Its a common misconception that it's somehow less technical or more strength based than gi styles

People who are starting in mma shouldn't necessarily go down this path depending on their goals.

People training for MMA gain zero benefit from training in the gi vs just training no gi

There are benefits to gi training, but if all you do is focus on gi training, then obviously that won't help as much.

Any gi training is less practical for no gi competition than no gi training

[u/misterandosan → u/powerhearse]

i don't think you have enough judo or wrestling knowledge to know what you're talking about. Because nothing you say makes sense, nor did you actually try to understand any of the statements you quoted from me.

For example:

No gi isn't necessarily faster paced than gi

Like wtf is this even a response to? 😂 Can you read what you quoted again and tell me how your reply is relevant? Do that with every statement. I'm keen to see it.

Every successful judo and sambo practitioner in mma has had considerable mat time in a gi, with a higher percentage of these fighters gaining success vs hundreds of wrestlers in the UFC. And you're trying to argue away from this reality by saying it's not applicable at all.

I'm just confused.

[u/powerhearse → u/misterandosan]

i don't think you have enough judo or wrestling knowledge to know what you're talking about.

I came to Judo from an MMA and wrestling background and hold a black belt in BJJ, I have plenty of gi and no gi experience across many grappling & MMA rulesets. Almost 2 decades worth in fact, including the last 5 years in Judo. More than half my experience has been no gi I'd say

I see the same misconceptions you're commenting in BJJ about the relevance of gi for MMA. It seems to usually be a misconception held by people with little no gi and/or MMA experience

Every successful judo and sambo practitioner in mma has had considerable mat time in a gi,

Wrong way to look at it. The correct viewpoint is, every succesful Judo and Sambo practitioner in MMA has considerable mat time no gi

Sure, some competed in the gi (though barely any time in the case of Islam and Khabib compared to their years spent in no gi rulesets) but that time spent is not as useful as no gi, end of story

The mythical "oh but the gi is mysteriously useful for no gi, it teaches precision magically" stuff needs to die. It doesn't. It still has some benefit but the optimum training for no gi rulesets is no gi, end of story

[u/misterandosan → u/powerhearse]

bitch, no one cares about your internet credentials.

My gym has UFC fighters, judoka olympians, we do no-gi judo as part of mma grappling.

You can literally see people improve faster in no-gi judo through gi training over time vs those people who just start no-gi judo from scratch.

But please tell me about your tiny experience with judo makes you an expert on how it's applied no-gi.

I see the same misconceptions you're commenting in BJJ about the relevance of gi for MMA.

No one's talking about BJJ. Stay on topic. Jesus christ.

Sure, some competed in the gi (though barely any time in the case of Islam and Khabib

The fuck are you talking about?
Khabib is literally a two time sambo world champion, his father trained him to become a judo athlete before switching to MMA, and you say he barely spent any time in a gi?

How am I supposed to take you seriously if you're willing to just lie to people to win an argument?
You're a joke.

[u/Economy_Weakness_507 → u/misterandosan]

"bitch no one cares about your internet credentials" LMAOOO

There's a lot of stuff this guy gets wrong.