r/judo • u/Background_Complex87 • May 24 '25
Other Opinions About Future Between BJJ vs Judo
As a BJJ black belt, is it a waste of time to give up competing in something you have invested so much time on because it has become boring in the evolution of BJJ? Also, instead, how do you feel about devoting your time to judo because it gives you more energy to learn?
Background: I have studied BJJ so long and I have a black belt in BJJ. However, I have become disillusioned in the direction of the art. Everyone seems to love the guard pulling and minutiae of detail in sportive techniques that have no application in reality. I also started to hate guard pulling. I was drawn into martial arts by the spectacle and reality of Pride FC. I have lost the will to compete in BJJ, even though I think I have a talent for it. I am not completely disenchanted with Jiu Jitsu, just what sportive BJJ has become.
Recently, I have taken up judo. I like the more realistic aspects of judo and maybe the novelty of trying something new. I way more like watching judo than sport BJJ. There is a tournament for judo coming up next month I will compete in and there is also a big Jiu Jitsu tournament in Tokyo next month.
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u/FuguSandwich May 24 '25
Fellow BJJ black belt here. The problem isn't guard pulling itself. The problem is the rules allow you to just sit down on your ass so long as you are lightly touching one of your opponent's wrists to count as a grip. This isn't guard pulling because sitting on your ass with no connection to your standing opponent is in no way a guard in the sense that a "guard" has been understood historically. There needs to be a rule change where you either establish an actual guard as part of the pull or it's 2 takedown points for your opponent AND the ref stands you back up. This is one of two rule changes that would fix 99% of what's wrong with BJJ (the other being to eliminate guard pass and sweep points and instead replace them with 2 points for side contol where side control also includes kesa variations and north south).
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u/Proper_Mastodon6581 May 24 '25
I have always thought the point of guard was to defend yourself after you are thrown or punched and end up on your back on the ground , then regain control of your partner (or attacker if it's a fight) and then use that guard to get to a dominant position(or sub). If you pull guard you are contolling your partner, if you sit, you are effectively simulating that you have been knocked down.
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u/Legitimate_Bag8259 ikkyu May 24 '25 edited May 24 '25
If you're enjoying Judo,go with it. I wouldn't walk away from Bjj completely. Stop competing but keep training.
I trained both alongside each other. The last 12 - 18 months it's been mainly Judo while doing Bjj once a week. I just don't get the buzz from Bjj anymore. Im hoping that changes.
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u/True_Subject9767 May 24 '25
3rd degree BJJ Blackbelt here. I feel your pain. I hate guard pulling. I refuse to do it even in comps. Started taking my son to judo several months ago so it’s just easier for me to do judo. I’ve done judo for 20 years but never taken a formal class. I can give all the higher belts a run for their money I was told I could attend the advanced class and I have to explain why I know judo so well to everyone even though I’m a white belt. Also it’s fun to wear a white belt again.
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u/CrazySwayze82 May 24 '25
I'm a purple belt in bjj and starting Judo at the beginning of June. I completely agree, I'm excited to wear a white belt again. It feels like such a weird thing to be looking forward to, but here we are.
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u/_idkmate__ May 24 '25
I think the BJJ meta is shifting, it’s becoming more wrestle heavy so maybe lean into that
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u/Nemeczekes May 24 '25
I can see you are frustrated with the direction of the BJJ as a sport.
But the question is, does stuff like guard pulling makes you dislike tournaments or you don’t like it as a matter of principle?
In sports Judo you also have artificial rules and can’t do various moves because of the rule set. If you are really into MMA kind of fight why not trying to do that? Your ground game would be very sweet.
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u/Uchimatty May 24 '25 edited May 24 '25
It’s no more a waste of time than transitioning from folkstyle wrestling to freestyle. BJJ and Judo are 2 rule sets of the same sport, and a BJJ black belt has a great base for judo. Judo newaza is fast and furious, and I think you’ll have a lot of fun using your knowledge to develop new ways to quickly win on the ground.
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u/GlitteringWinter3094 May 24 '25
Both arts evolved similarly. Original Judo was much closer to real world fighting and proved itself in challenge matches. Post WWII it went in a more sport direction. Original BJJ was vale Tudo, UFC, Gracie Challenge…. In both cases, the original people were tough as nails, but they weren’t arts that could appeal to the everyday, average person. With sport rules and business pressure, they had to change into a different version of themselves. Can say the same about karate. That said, each art has elements that can be retained and it makes sense to train both if you can.
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u/Fit-Tax7016 nikyu May 24 '25
I quit BJJ years ago just after the pandemic. Beforehand, I had some prior Judo experience and drew on it a lot (heavy Kesa based game).
When we resumed training again I was horrified to see people just sitting on the ground doing leglocks. Ad infinitum. Raving about it... Absolutely not my thing and the constant focus on it bored me shitless, so I quit, went back to Judo and have never looked back.
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u/Dizzle85 May 24 '25
Bjj in general, but no gi submission wrestling in particular, has a wider more open ruleset than judo. If you think bjj has an unrealistic ruleset, you'll be quickly disillusioned by the current judo ruleset as well.
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u/TCamilo19 May 24 '25
You are the reverse of me.
I was purely a judoka for a long time. I never reached elite level by any means, but I trained for over a decade. Competed lots and got my 2nd Dan through Batsugun.
However, in my mind twenties, I began to become disillusioned. Training was becoming more of a chore than something I looked forward to. I felt id "found my ceiling" so to speak, in terms of how far I could go competitively. The IJF rule changes didn't help, as I always enjoyed leg grab techniques, though I tried to keep an open mind on that front. If I had been at a different stage of my life, I'd have probably transitioned to a purely coaching role and started up my own club. However, work commitments and the lifestlye I had back then didn't really make that a feasible option.
Instead, I saw BJJ as a way to renew my enthusiasm for training and competition. I was about 28 when I started BJJ. Originally my plan was to throw myself at it for two years, then reincorporate Judo and see how well I could do on the Judo masters circuit. That never really happened, or hasn't yet anyway.... But it's been 8 years since then and I'm still training grappling regularly. BJJ and No-Gi mostly, but judo too. Considering I was close to quitting entirely at one point, the change did the trick!
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u/Sasquatch458 May 24 '25
You are very experienced in BJJ. They are branches of the same tree! Enjoy a challenge and improve your fight game even more!
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u/Otautahi May 24 '25
BJJ seems to have more of a focus on standup (we’re getting another surge of BJJ guys wanting to improve standup) - but I think there are fundamental factors that will limit standup development (or perhaps take it in a surprising direction).
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u/AlmostFamous502 BJJ Black, Judo Green May 24 '25
No idea what you’re asking, but you are allowed to have more than one hobby.
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u/Crunchy-gatame ikkyu - too dumb to quit May 24 '25
It’s also okay to pick just one or even none and just go play golf.
It’s all silly, ridiculous games if you think about it. Grown men putting on thick kimonos and yanking on each other. Grown men hitting a ball with a stick into a hole in the ground.
Humans are weird and pretty privileged these days.
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u/JoeBreza-grappling May 24 '25
As a longtime wrestler (started in 1991) who came over to BJJ in 2019 and then to Judo in 2023, I feel like I have benefited from all three styles in their own right. My footwork, handfighting, and throws were easy to transition from wrestling to judo. I am a purple belt in BJJ and that definitely helps tremendously in judo. But, if I go up against a really good judo blackbelt, then I get mauled by their turning sequences. That front/side triangle turn is a bitch to stop, lol! But that would definitely transition to BJJ well too. And the pace of judo to get that done quickly would definitely help in BJJ. For me, I feel like judo is best. It is so gratifying. But I also love long BJJ rolls. That is good recovery for me. I love being on a competitive team. Especially since they are half my age and we talk about more than judo. I am a professor at the university I train judo at and just love being around people in their 20s. They are goal oriented and it keeps me young and tough. I have exceptional coaches too, and we travel other gyms to train. My old BJJ coach was so territorial and hated when I trained outside his gym. So I would just say that nothing you have done is a waste. I wrestled and coached wrestling for years. I coach BJJ guys in wrestling now, but I focus on Judo for competitions and BJJ for workouts/learning
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u/TechfuzionTX May 24 '25
I train both and enjoy both. Currently a Sankyu in judo and just promoted last month to blue in BJJ. I find it really blends well together and you have to do what you feel is best. I mainly started BJJ to improve my judo. One aspect I found was when practicing my dela hiva, my tomoe nage greatly improved. That is about as far as my guard pulling goes. Just enjoy the journey!
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u/AtomicSkunk May 24 '25
Unless you’re financially or socially bound by BJJ (i.e. you’re a coach, gym owner, or that’s where you hang out with your friends), just do what’s fun. People change and so does life.
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u/Lim85k May 24 '25
You sound like me, except I had this realisation about 6 years into it. I'd already been cross-training in wrestling for a few years and decided to just switch to that - I find wrestling so much more enjoyable. I'm grateful for my BJJ training, but it's just not for me anymore. Too much starting from the knees and emphasis on guard for my liking.
Of course quitting BJJ isn't a waste of time. Judo will make you a more well-rounded grappler with much better stand-up skills. You've clearly got a lot out of BJJ - if you're no longer enjoying it, then switching to Judo would 100% be a more productive use of your time.
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u/Spiritual-Target-108 yonkyu May 24 '25
Well I’ve finally realized a lot of connected pieces between throws and the ground positions. So it becomes a lot more fun once you can chain the skill sets. Each art is focused in the opposite direction. But there are places that compliment the other.
Sacrifice throws fail straight into where bjj starts. I find that very enjoyable, it’s actually brought me back full time into bjj. Judo and bjj really are the complete art…. Then we ask about striking 😢
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u/Mobile-Travel-6131 May 24 '25
You're gonna be just as mad at sportive judo lol. Fact of the matter is if you train with self defense and fighting in mind then that's what you focus on and that's what you teach. Why do you even care where bjj is going? You aren't the meta and you aren't responsible for anything outside of using and teaching what you deem valuable. In the gym i train at we have a smattering of all types of grappling but we often teach self defense and mma focused grappling. If the sports aspect isn't for that that's perfectly fine collect your techniques and hone them then when you teach keep that as your focal point.
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u/Secret_Tap_5548 sankyu May 25 '25
I am agree with you. I love bjj but bjj miss something when they authorise guard pulling. It could be a very fun part of the game. I practice Jujutsu fighting, it is a mix of judo and bjj in competition.
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u/zealous_sophophile May 25 '25
BJJ vs Judo is a rabbit hole. I'm definitely biased, but even more so towards "traditional Judo".
However there are some facts! BJJ is growing more in America and with international celebrities going to their classes. e.g. Russell Brand, Joe Rogan, Ashton Kutcher, Robert Pattinson, Tom Hardy etc.......... Judo really dropped the ball with social media. They certainly haven't capitalised off the back of popular films like John Wick.
But! Judo is more popular in Brazil and has more presence overall internationally in schools and universities. Overall it's much more affordable to parents with kids needing a space to go wild as childcare.
Talking on schools, there are a bunch of initiatives of "Judo Schools" where it's a stem subjects academy with special funding an facilities for Judo in loads of slavic countries and south america including Brazil in their "Favella Judo Schools" projects.
More peripatetic Judo is appearing around London and surrounding counties which isn't bad.
However they are producing a qualification where a highschool teachers can perform and gain a qualification in Judo if they attend a handful of sessions, whatever the number extremely inadequate to call someone a Judo coach.
What's the future of BJJ?
They aren't able to agree on a definition of BJJ sufficient enough to get them into the Olympics. Their "innovations" over the last couple of decades have been; self defence slap BJJ (Eddie Bravo), MMA, 10th planet hyper mobility marathon style (Eddie Bravo), mapping out submission only no gi (John Danaher) and they're aggressively keen on the Ecological Dynamics. Generally as a community they've been busy bees but their presence in MMA has diminished as catch wrestling has gained a lot more prestige for it's standing game. Membership fees are often very high and the sport has gotten so popular it's now reported people now open programmes when you graduate belts based on number of sessions logged in on the app, not what they can do with their hands. Some companies even doing promotions for just home solo training....?
What's the future of Judo？
School presence is usually just an after school programme once a week, either primary or highschool just for one hour. A peri school service can then do 22 different schools in a week but it's just one small session. Other school programmes run for 3 months and then switch schools every 3 months in cycles. The kids for many reasons do not migrate to the parent clubs outside the school so some money is earned but the sport doesn't seem to grow in commiserate fashion. Like a lot of countries the funding is a single legged stool from Sport England dependent on Olympic performance. Britain didn't qualify to send a male squad last Olympics...... That's catestrophic for funding. The best promise for potential seems to be Judo School programmes.
Most Judo research is 95% force throw vectors, injuries, strength/conditioning etc. Very little is done for societal and therapeutic benefits based on why most people want to do martial ats which is self defence. People want to not feel weak. This potential for lifestyle Judo hits a wider audience and adds back in things like meditation, yoga, self defence etc. Which means coaches would need careers with fantastic long term career enrichment plans. I feel Judo's brightest future was what Kano wanted all along.
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u/Jheezy84 May 25 '25
Two sides of the same coin honestly. Have fun with it and perfect your grappling. Cross training will make you a better judoka and jiu jitsu player in general.
Similar to BJJ, they’re judo players who abuse rule sets and their style will not be “pure” and instead will utilize cheaper and dirty tactics to just get the W
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u/No_Cherry2477 May 26 '25
Judo is an awesome sport. I'm kind of your polar opposite. I have a long history in judo but originally came from wrestling. My judo newaza is strong in comparison to most, but I know I don't have what it takes to last on the ground with top level BJJ players.
I love tachiwaza from judo too much to wander off to BJJ, but I really would love to learn more about BJJ.
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u/Ronin_FitTV May 28 '25
Judo has its own problems and it’s very hard on the body. If you’re over 21 years old, stick with bjj. Not saying to not do Judo, just saying focusing on bjj would be smarter. Learn the art of judo and use it to supplement your bjj. But ultimately I’m just a guy on the internet. Follow your gut and do what makes you happy.
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u/mega_turtle90 May 28 '25
This is good advice. There isn't that much opportunities for adults starting in Judo if they wanna compete in a high level like BJJ
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u/EffortlessJiuJitsu May 24 '25
Let me give you my opinion. I am a 4th degree Blackbelt doing it for 31 years most of the time No-Gi and recently I discovered the Gi and Judo instead of the No-GI Wrestling stuff (also I was doing Judo as a kid before BJJ).
For me I see a bright future. You can combine Judo with BJJ, the Gi with strikes and modern leg locks, I focus a lot on Aiki internal power which can be extremly good used with the gi so the Aikido influence is there too. Since I also do lots of weapons (Knife, machete) there is some overlap with grappling and gi control too.
I feel that I need at least another 30 years to come to an end and I feel you when you say you can´t stand the modern BJJ.
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u/Due_Objective_ May 24 '25
The more realistic aspects of Judo? Bro, you get DQ'd for touching the legs. Want to take a two on one grip? Nope, can't do that either.
Judo is what happens to a martial art at the end of the sporting journey. Butt scooting in BJJ is duuuuumb. But not as dumb as being flattened out on your belly with an opponent sat on your back counting as a valid defensive posture.
Train what you want to train - Judo is awesome fun, but "realistic" is not a word I'd use to describe the IJF ruleset.
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u/SucksAtJudo May 24 '25
I never liked judging a combat sport by putting it in a street fight context.
Things like turtle and flounder are legitimate defenses against a trained grappler that has a dominant position on you. And neither is nearly as dumb as lifting your head or throwing an arm out. Plus, just because you see that in competition and training in a sport where you will lose by getting choked out or arm locked doesn't mean you don't have the option to just get up if someone is going to wail on the back of your skull bare knuckles (which is pretty stupid on their part in and of itself)
For the record I don't entirely disagree with you. Whenever there is competition, there will always be people who play to the rules to secure a win. The one advantage judo does have that keeps it honest is that the keeper of the curriculum is the Kodokan and the Kodokan is separate and apart from, and doesn't give a single shit about the IJF. Even though techniques like te guruma and morote gari aren't practiced by a lot of clubs because of competition rules, the Kodokan hasn't taken those techniques out of the syllabus. They still teach them, and so do a larger number of clubs than people realize.
I will never forget when one of our coaches said he was going to teach te guruma. He started instruction by saying "this is not allowed in competition per the current ruleset, but I teach Kodokan judo and Idgaff about the IJF. "
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u/Due_Objective_ May 24 '25
I don't disagree with you either. They're sports with rules designed to make the sport more interesting/fun/safe etc.
I just think any comparison that looks at Judo as more "realistic" than BJJ is silly, since Judo rules basically create a subset of BJJ - I can't currently think of anything you can do in Judo that you can't do in BJJ - so that particular comparison just doesn't make sense to me.
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u/obi-wan-quixote May 24 '25
I think it’s judo rules keep the sense of urgency and the explosive aspect front and center. Qualities that are beneficial in a “real fight”(tm). I think the judo mindset and training is more conducive to fighting and builds a better foundation than BJJ. It has a more full contact approach. The techniques allowed in competition are a different matter.
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u/Due_Objective_ May 24 '25
I don't agree, but if we all agreed on everything, wouldn't the internet be boring.
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u/SucksAtJudo May 24 '25
Maybe it's the "spontaneity" for lack of a better term.
BJJ competition rules generally allow for the superior competitor to always come out on top.
In judo, I feel like it's easier to lose to someone that you outclass. One mistake or one fleeting moment of opportunity is all it takes to get put on your ass or get caught in a pin that you don't have enough time to work your way out of and it's game over and you never even saw it coming.
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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 gokyu May 24 '25
"Things like turtle and flounder are legitimate defenses against a trained grappler that has a dominant position on you. "
No way, turtle is just suicide. The opponent will just grab whatever heavy object around, say a stone, pan, whatever, and will just murder you by hitting your head.
Turtle is the worse possible defense against ... anything. Maybe it is marginally better than ostrish head on hole defense.
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u/SucksAtJudo May 24 '25
The opponent will just grab whatever heavy object around
If they do that, they are obviously not a trained grappler and aren't going to be able to maintain pressure on you to keep you down, so you would simply stand up anyway.
Turtle is the worse possible defense against ... anything.
Except a trained grappler exerting pressure on you and looking for the opportunity to put you to sleep or reorient one of your limbs.
You don't seem to understand what someone in turtle or in flounder is actually defending themselves from.
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u/Gaius_7 May 24 '25
Same boat as you OP. Judo scratches the itch a lot better; it's what I compete in now
I still train BJJ occasionally to maintain some skills but Judo is better imo. Since we both like MMA and MMA groundwork, may I suggest you try Craig Jone's instructionals? In particular, the "Just Stand Up" one is perfect
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u/SucksAtJudo May 24 '25
Do it!
Sounds like you just need a change of scenery and maybe something else a little more new and thus more challenging.
As you are surely well aware, there is a crap ton of crossover between the two and the two styles compliment each other perfectly.
Each style brings its own benefits to the table. BJJ has the ground game mastered obviously and you would undoubtedly be a killer in newaza. Standup in the clinch is where judo will shine and our club has seen more than one high ranked BJJ person show up because they saw themselves being tossed repeatedly by a judo guy that started training at their gym.
I feel even the rulesets bring their own unique benefits. BJJ allows for a much more strategic and methodical approach and in a competitive context generally allows the "better" opponent to almost always win. In judo, because all it takes to win is to put someone on their back or hold them in a pin, , one mistake or one lucky moment of opportunity is all it takes to lose and be thrown on your ass or get caught in a pin by someone who might be a lesser opponent.
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u/physics_fighter May 24 '25
I’m with you dude. I’m a BJJ black belt as well and hate the guard pulling nonsense that is so prevalent, but let’s not act like Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, etc doesn’t have quirks that don’t really work in a real combative scenario. No matter what the rules are, people will learn how to game the system
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u/Mobile-Estate-9836 Judo Brown Ikkyu / BJJ Brown / Wrestling May 25 '25
I basically did the same as OP, except I didn't give up BJJ, I just devoted some more time to Judo. Do Judo like 2 or 3 times a week and BJJ 1 time a week, and then take what you learned into Judo back to BJJ. I did that and came to appreciate BJJ more again because I was able to implement stuff from Judo as a new challenge and to diversify my game. I'd say the same about wrestling or wrestling classes too if you haven't done them. It breaks up the monotony of just doing one sport and ruleset.
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u/undersiege1989 May 25 '25
Maybe you reach plateau in BJJ? Judo is fun and practical over all, also more tiring but also has its lame side (sorry for a lack of better term). I hope you can fill each other's gap in your journey! Good luck
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u/atx78701 May 25 '25
BJJ will cause a resurgence of judo. The downside of judo is it is hard on the body
BJJ schools are getting wrestling and judo coaches
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u/Calptozi May 26 '25
While I like bjj, I started doing judo for the same reasons as you. Personally, it added more to my arsenal of grappling knowledge. I do think that immediate guard pulling and sitting down is just lazy. Maybe look at it as learning more about the standing aspect of grappling while you work on judo. Not to sound mean, but it is so much fun doing judo on most bjj guys when you catch them in it because they dont know what’s coming to them lol!
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u/amphibian_MAs May 27 '25
I've been doing BJJ for 20yrs now 2nd degree BB long with BB in Judo, Catch , Sambo. BJJ is completely boring now. I teach but will not go to tournaments b/c is guard pulling, butt scooters..etc. I prefer Judo because it's a fight from the start and th fact you have 10secs to work on the ground before they stand you up.
Judo is the only sport rule baseI compete, and for those that say the rule is similar to bjj in the sense one can stall is full of BS.
I would say go do a Kosan Judo tournament, mostly on the West coast. Guard Pulling is not allowed. I was the Rickson BJJ tournaments are good as well and is against guard pull & butt scooting
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u/Dependent-Frame-238 May 27 '25
As a competitive blue belt I feel exactly the same way - I was cross training BJJ and Judo for several months and just recently cancelled my bjj membership and have been focusing solely on judo and I'm having a blast.
At first it felt like I was throwing away all my time i've spent doing bjj, but now I'm just glad I'm having fun grappling again.
Of course I'm missing some BJJ aspects like leg grabs, and submissions other than arm bars and chokes - but all in all i'm having fun.
Maybe i'll return to BJJ later on in life
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u/mega_turtle90 May 28 '25
How old are bro? Were you competing in BJJ master divisions or Adult divisions
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u/Dependent-Frame-238 May 29 '25
Im 31 - competing in adult divisions
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u/iamsammovement May 28 '25
I think it is healthy, but not often socially supported, to master a discipline and then switch to something new.
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u/Smooth_Paper5577 May 29 '25
Dude. I did bjj for years. Had a great time. Switched to judo. Fell in love with martial arts again. The main difference you’ll feel in judo is that adrenaline rush that lacks a little in BJJ. It’s almost like a Muay Thai feeling. You either perform well, or you get your ass absolutely slammed into the ground. This could lead to a concussion or injury if you’re not taking it seriously. Same thing with Muay Thai/kickboxing. You don’t take it serious, you might get knocked out. In BJJ everyone taps before something becomes a serious problem. You don’t get to tap out in judo brother.
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u/IndependentLayer5054 May 30 '25
Try NAGA tournaments. It's the North American Grappling Association, if someone tries pulling guard you just back up and wait then they get penalized similar to just running away to run down the clock in judo. The ruleset makes the sport much more fun. It's the grappling equivalent of MMA.
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u/MostEstablishment352 May 31 '25
Craig Jones if he has his way will bring a ton of weight.. the rule set and the alley in particular should be adopted across bjj ...no resets is fire...super intense action
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u/lordrothermere May 24 '25
Judo has such a well established competitive framework. If you think that's for you then go for it. You're already a good grappler, so should be able to wash your face. But it will be hard! Which could be good, depending on your age.
Or you could value your knees, and stick with BJJ. Equally valid.
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u/_Throh_ sankyu May 24 '25
Brother just do what is fun for you, if you have been having fun doing Judo then the answer is going for that Judo tournament. Not a waste of time if you are having fun with it.