I might get crucified for this, but that judo needs to focus on its martial roots and not just the sports aspect of it. I'm all for the sports of judo, but I see too many people "gamify" it and do things that would in fact be dangerous for yourself outside of a sporting context. The sport should serve the martial aspect, not the other way around. This was why Jigoro Kano created judo, and the peak that a lot of the pioneers strived for, a lot of us nowadays have forgotten that.
I have mixed feelings on this. Randori and Shiai are a great way to know if your judo works: that’s great for the art.
However, having done BJJ as well, I tend to think that throws which result in a bad ending position for Tori (roll-through, landing in back take, etc) should not score ippon because the point of the score is control. If the fight/match didn’t end at the throw, Tori would be at a disadvantage.
Or at least retaining dominant position. So remaining standing or landing in top/control position, or immediate transition to mount/pin.
I see too many throws get ippon that, if it was BJJ (I know it’s not, but still), would result in a back take or immediate reversal by the uke. This includes using the roll through to “force” the ippon AND bad drop throws where Tori is fave down and uke lands face up right beside them.
I have actually had a score against me where the guy rolled through after I threw with drop seoi. On review they reversed the score and awarded him the wazari.
Even though I was on the wrong side of the decision, I applauded it.
I only halfway agree - throws should count if they land with dominant position OR with sufficient force. Either would be considered very effective in a real situation. Don't think you want to make people blast their bodyweight on other's in uchi mata etc.
That'd fix the two worst throws plagueing modern judo, drop seois and kata guruma's. Both are fine if they land with force but this awful ''running with it'' meta would stop (especially bad on kata guruma, where it's initial go is stopped and just turns into a zero-impact roll/walk over).
Nobody can claim a drop-seoi wouldn't be effective in a real life situation even if you end up technically exposing your back, if the actual throw itself has considerable impact.
While I get your argument, I would still prefer to maintain a dominant posture post throw even if the fight is already over. From a purely martial perspective, getting stuck on the ground after a throw would be a disaster.
I'm a judo black belt with a purple belt in bjj. I've learned to adapt my seoi nage, koshi guruma, and uchi mata to a bjj context so back exposure is minimal. Just like any other skill it is learnable to make these throws safe, most people simply write them off rather than learning to adapt the skill under new conditions.
Simply being aware you need to maintain top position helps you adapt your landing. You wind up sort of generating the feeling of "I'm going to aim for a waza ari landing rather than ippon".
When I throw ippon seoi in a bjj context I focus on keeping their scapula pinned to the mat right after the throw and then I grab their head immediately. I dont know of anyone who could get back hooks in if you have control of their head and one of their shoulders pinned to the mat. Now just walk around to north south.
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u/luke_fowl Jun 07 '25
I might get crucified for this, but that judo needs to focus on its martial roots and not just the sports aspect of it. I'm all for the sports of judo, but I see too many people "gamify" it and do things that would in fact be dangerous for yourself outside of a sporting context. The sport should serve the martial aspect, not the other way around. This was why Jigoro Kano created judo, and the peak that a lot of the pioneers strived for, a lot of us nowadays have forgotten that.