Why though? If you see it from a "real world application" standpoint, even if the other guy ends up on top of you, you just hit him with the pavement. That's the traditional reason ippon meant end of contest.
And for sports reason: if this happens after ippon, it's most likely because Tori let it happen knowing it was ippon. And if there was such a rule, I'd just position my lapel hand in a way Tori will always end up in a choke after throwing me for ippon.
The whole "hit them with the planet" idea sounds nice, but go watch some street fight videos. Sometimes it works, yeah. But from what I've seen, more often, a big takedown will slam someone HARD and they get straight back up.
I'm not doubting you, but I'd like a link to a few of these videos of someone getting up unscathed after being properly judo thrown. I've seen the compilation of judo throws in street fights that gets circulated around here every so often and none of those people were stirring a muscle let alone getting up.
Sometimes a hard fall on the tatami hurts bad enough that I don't want to get up, and I have good ukemi and my dojo has spring floors and like 2 inch mats. A throw on concrete is, without exaggeration, probably 10 times as damaging.
Videos shared on the judo sub are always going to be biased towards judo ending a fight. Hell, videos shared online in general are biased towards impressive finishes. Most street fights don't include ippons, they're more messy and likely to be waza ari or just people falling/dragging each other to the ground. In randori you don't have the adrenaline to shake off a big hit like that.
I think it's fair to say that when grapplers end street fights, the vast majority do so via pin/sub/groundNpound. To have self defence applicable judo, you should be able to consistently pin from a throw, rather than roll off or end on bottom.
And? The proposition I'm arguing against is basically "all judo takedowns on a hard surface end the fight". I searched for "wrestler" because videos featuring wrestlers are more common. I specifically looked for examples with decent amplitude takedowns that didn't end the fight - proof by counter example.
All of these examples (again, just a couple with a quick search) show a takedown that would be considered ippon in judo. Some of these examples show multiple ippons, with a higher amplitude than you see in a lot of competitive judo fights. All legit judo moves, and yes, common moves in no-gi situations.
I look at this sort of content a lot, and I've seen far more fights ending in submission/GnP/pin after ippon than by ippon itself. The whole "ippon ends the fight" narrative seems like a massive exaggeration to me. Imo if you like the idea of self defence judo, train transitions to pins, and don't roll through.
This 100%. The presumption of the fight ending throw is a delusion. Yes it can end the fight... but it often doesn't, even with a good throw.
Furthermore, many of the best throws in competition depend on some of the unique factors of sport judo. Perfect grips on the gi, and standard judo play on the part of uke, especially.
I used to repeat the "judo hits then with the planet" trope, but it was watching street fight videos that changed my mind. If the throw doesn't work, you'd better be still on your feet or in a good position to finish the fight.
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u/DangerousBullfrog164 Jun 07 '25
Roling over and ending in a more compromised position then your opponent after a throw is not ippon worthy.