r/judo • u/Livershotking Sankyu + BJJ Brown II • Jun 08 '25
Judo x MMA 2 time Olympic Gold medalist Kayla Harrison just won the UFC Bantamweight championship. Why aren't any of the U.S. Judo federations talking about it?
This is a GIANT opportunity to promote Judo in the United States. Whenever a BJJ competitor, Sambo competitor, kickboxer, wrestler, karateka or Muay Thai fighter wins a major championship in MMA, their respective community talks about it and uses it as promotion. With the 2028 Olympics coming up, this would be a perfect opportunity for U.S. Judo to step into the limelight and garner some interest and mainstream coverage. Imagine the U.S. Open or the Pan American Championship on ESPN 2 or NBC Sports. I hope the U.S. Judo federations are paying attention.
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u/Dangerous-Sink6574 Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 08 '25
Because the IJF prohibits active judo professionals from doing any other sports while on tour. As far as their legalism goes, this has absolutely nothing to do with judo.
Instead, the question becomes why isn’t USA Judo doing or saying anything about this? They should be hammering the fact that the two women who have most redefined the MMA women’s scene have been two Olympic caliber judoka - Rousey and Harrison.
Silence.
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u/obi-wan-quixote Jun 08 '25
Well, the answer to “why is USA Judo not doing or saying anything about this” is basically “because USA Judo is a shit show.”
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u/Livershotking Sankyu + BJJ Brown II Jun 08 '25
I totally agree. Rousey and Harrison changed Women's MMA and the fact that the IJF and USA Judo refuses to talk about them is crazy.
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u/Left-Newspaper-5590 Jun 09 '25
Hot take but MMA is somewhat antithetical to Judo and I can’t be the only one that appreciates the distance the IJF keeps with MMA. Just look at BJ Penn, MMA is violent and brutal by design and those who participate in it almost always are worse off for doing so. MMA has chosen a specific ruleset, just as Judo has. Judoka doing well in MMA isn’t the ultimate test of the art, or any martial art for that matter.
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u/JaguarHaunting584 Jun 12 '25
yep. mma fans are usually very quick to always view things through an mma lens which is great...if all you want is mma. i like watching boxing and think theyre great athletes no matter how many people write online about how easy it would be to double leg a boxer for some reason.
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u/Sparks3391 sandan Jun 08 '25
The ijf us the INTERNATIONAL judo federation not the international means the whole world not just America. I can't imagine they give a shit about a judoka winning the ufc especially considering judo is MUCH bigger in most of the world.
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u/Dangerous-Sink6574 Jun 08 '25
Let’s be real as well - promoting judo for the Olympics is already too late for the US. Ain’t no way we can prepare our bodies in less than 3 years to be competitive.
We are not winning anything this Olympics in LA in judo. It’s going to be a bloodbath. Our best players today can’t even make top 5 at any of the major tournaments worldwide. I’m more than happy to be corrected on this in 2028 and I hope I’m wrong. At this point in time though, I’m confident judo in the US is pretty much dead after 2028.
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u/powerhearse Jun 09 '25
The best bet for Judo in the US is really to become attached to BJJ / MMA clubs. Viewing Judo through an Olympic lens is just so wildly one dimensional.
I didn't get into Judo from a BJJ/MMA background due to any interest in the Olympics whatsoever. I have never watched Olympic Judo live. It just isnt a good spectators sport even coming from a martial arts background
And I think that's probably the case for the vast majority of people starting Judo in the US.
Much as I dislike the prizefighting/professional fighting culture, it's the way to go popularity wise.
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u/Xenophon_ Jun 09 '25
It's a great spectator sport, as long as you're not watching the heavyweights. But that seems to be the matches that they promote the most for whatever reason
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u/martial_arrow shodan Jun 08 '25
How is this getting downvoted lol
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u/cooperific nikyu Jun 08 '25
It’s the last sentence. Like, I plan to be doing judo in the US after 2028. So how is it “dead”? We’ve had competitive Olympians before, and we’ve had non-competitive periods before. Anybody who is trying to call time of death is trying to predict the future, which is an unattractive thing to do.
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u/martial_arrow shodan Jun 09 '25 edited Jun 09 '25
I didn't take it to mean that literally no one would be practicing Judo in the US. Rather that USA Judo and the competitive infrastructure behind it would be damaged to such an extent that it will no longer be functional in its current form. USA Judo is already on thin ice with the USOPC.
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u/cooperific nikyu Jun 09 '25
So to answer your original question, OP probably wouldn’t have been downvoted if they’d said all that.
u/Dangerous-Sink6574 is saying that we don’t have anyone currently who’s 3 years away from being capable of an Olympic medal or even a quarter final appearance. I agree with that.
But that was also true last year. I’m genuinely curious because I don’t know the inside baseball at all: What will be different in 2028 such that competitive judo in the US will be in worse shape then than it is now? Why is USA Judo on thin ice with the Olympic Committee?
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u/NoCommentingForMe nikyu Jun 09 '25
Iirc there was hope that last year’s elections for new USA judo board members would turn things around with a strong reset and push for developing talent to give at least a reasonable showing in 2028, but as far as I know that hasn’t happened. This means we’ll miss our best chance at more American judoka on the podium/on TV and the popularity boost that that would come with. I’m not confident on this, but I think membership numbers have been declining post-pandemic (I stand to be corrected).
Someone posted the article a while back, but it also seems like there’s issues at USA Judo with transparency, corruption, misuse of funds, etc. Add all that to the breakdown of the agreement between the three orgs, and American judo is a mess with no real plan for the future.
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u/No_Week2825 Jun 08 '25
As someone who came upon this post due to seeing similar subs, what are the issues with usa judo? Is it poor skill development for younger competitors, poor coaching at higher levels, or just not enough interest from those with a lot of natural athleticism across the us?
Or some combination thereof?
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u/Dangerous-Sink6574 Jun 08 '25
Nepotism, mismanagement, bad judgement, no sound strategy or tactics on the ground coupled with the US Olympic Committee pulling funding.
Also, why the hell do we have 3 national bodies? USJF, USJA, USA Judo. I guess thats a question for another time.
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u/getvaccinatedidiots Jun 09 '25
There are too many things to list so I'll limit it to just a few competition type things:
Too many coaches think drop and flop is great because kids win local and even national tournaments with this style. The drop and flop style doesn't get the penalties in the America that it would get internationally (this includes just falling on your back for tomoe nage because you got outgripped). But, it does work great in America. Therefore, development is bad. The good thing is this is supposed to be changing at least at national tournaments in America and you had less of this at senior nationals because there were some penalties for it.
We just had a thread on tani-otoshi. Why this would be taught to any kid, I have no idea. Once again, it hinders development.
Because of #1, we don't develop what tons of international players have: the ability to stop drop and flop with our core, manipulating our hands, and the opponent's shoulders/body, etc., to prevent the drop and flop.
In general, our newaza is terrible and there are international opportunities to prevent getting pinned and to win fights but you have, for example, some of our international coaches thinking omoplata is illegal.
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u/Black6x ikkyu Jun 09 '25
Instead, the question becomes why isn’t USA Judo doing or saying anything about this? They should be hammering the fact that the two women who have most redefined the MMA women’s scene have been two Olympic caliber judoka - Rousey and Harrison.
Silence.
Your comment age right now: 7 hours old.
USA Judo's Instagram Post celebrating Harrison: 19 hour old.
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u/rtsuya Nidan | Hollywood Judo | Tatami Talk Podcast Jun 08 '25
With what outlet? Instagram? Facebook? They already post there but the effort is low with content nobody that isn't in competitive judo cares about.
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u/Jaynos87 Jun 08 '25
This is to do with the IJF (International Judo Federation) of which most U.S. Judo Federations I imagine are under the umbrella of. The IJF have actively discouraged the transition of Judoka to other combat sports including MMA.
Below is a press release from the IJF that was shared by the BJA (British Judo Association) in 2019 which even outlined sanctions and bans.
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u/Left-Newspaper-5590 Jun 08 '25
There is a long history of Judoka being banned from taking part in professional (paid) sports. It goes back to the Kodokan and Dr. Kano. He was on the Olympic committee at the height of trying to keep all Olympic sports amateur (unpaid), so I think this had a lot to do with the Kodokan’s attitude towards judoka competing in other sports. If I were being a judo purist, I would say that Harrison and Rousey (among others) sully the ideals of Judo by participating in a sport that clearly hurts their opponent and violates the principle of mutual benefit. A lot of Kano’s writing dealt with this principle, and as an educator, he was hyper focused on creating and maintaining a practice that ensured participants were better off for participating. A lot of the rules he instituted may seem commonplace now (tapping out, win by pin, throwing an opponent safely on their back and making it illegal to throw them on their head or face, respect for your opponent) but they were revolutionary.
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u/slapdaddy88 Jun 09 '25
What did the kodokan think pf Kimura, Kato and all the pro Japanese wrestelers who came from the Judo scene? I thought Kano fought Helio as an offical rep of the Kodokan ?
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u/Judontsay ikkyu Jun 09 '25
Kano was not a fan. Kano died in 1938. You’re probably thinking of Kimura who fought Helio in 1950-something.
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u/slapdaddy88 Jun 09 '25
I knew Kano had died by then. So I was curious about the culture of the Kodokan.
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u/Left-Newspaper-5590 Jun 09 '25
Yeah the Kodokan permanently banned some judoka for participating in professional fights. Post WWII was a different time, and they seemed to loosen up because many judoka were having a hard time making a living. Personally, I think it’s really sad to watch Kimura when he did the professional wrestling against Rikidozan, a massive former sumo, and got knocked out by slaps and kicks to the head. Just brutal stuff that is far beneath the aims of Judo.
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u/slapdaddy88 Jun 09 '25
Well that wasn't supposed to happen. Rikidozan was supposed to be doing the job and went into business for himself Kimura had no idea it was coming. Rikidozan was executed with urine soaked blade by the yakuza for doing it.
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u/Left-Newspaper-5590 Jun 09 '25
For sure. I assume Rikidozan didn’t even know he was going to do that until Kimura kicked him in the groin. Still, very sad to watch them play fighting for money. But I know he was not doing well financially.
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u/d_rome Jun 09 '25
This is to do with the IJF (International Judo Federation) of which most U.S. Judo Federations I imagine are under the umbrella of.
FYI, only one Judo organization is under the umbrella of the IJF and that's USA Judo.
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u/SpineSpinner shodan Jun 08 '25
USA judo has posted about it.
What do you expect? TV commercials? Billboards?
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u/Black6x ikkyu Jun 09 '25
USA Judo failed to go to their house, knock on their door, and inform them of the victory, so I can see why they would feel like it's not being talked about.
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u/d_rome Jun 09 '25
I expect them to use their annual budget for one 30 second commercial during the NBA Finals! 😄
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u/SpineSpinner shodan Jun 13 '25
Shit, I’d be surprised if their annual budget got them a 30 second ad in a YouTube video…
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u/powerhearse Jun 09 '25
Because a lot of older people involved in Judo worldwide hate MMA. It's pretty noticeable in the culture
The French Judo federation outright blocked it from being legalised for many years
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u/awkwatic Jun 08 '25
Judo could be so big in the US, but as many have commented here, USA Judo seems like it’s uninterested in actually growing the sport. How many young girls and women might judo attract by propping up stories of elite judoka who went on to become champion MMA fighters?
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u/Otautahi Jun 08 '25
What would it look like if the US judo federations were talking about it? What would be the change?
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u/d_rome Jun 08 '25
There will be no change. None whatsoever. The only people who follow Judo in the US are people involved in the scene. A social media blitz isn't going to change a thing. The fact remains that there aren't enough coaches in the US to fill a massive demand. What happened with BJJ in the early 90s couldn't happen again. It was a different time.
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u/Judontsay ikkyu Jun 09 '25
You’re not wrong. As a non competitor I don’t follow competitive Judo at all, and I love Judo. I think the growth of Judo, if it happens, will be grass-roots Judo.
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u/cwheeler33 Jun 10 '25
First, you don’t involve politics in judo. Especially if the politician represents the opposite values it’s trying to promote.… second, judo doesn’t like cross training. Olympic judo still looks down on mma as a lesser combat sport.
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u/d_rome Jun 09 '25
This is a GIANT opportunity to promote Judo in the United States. Whenever a BJJ competitor, Sambo competitor, kickboxer, wrestler, karateka or Muay Thai fighter wins a major championship in MMA, their respective community talks about it and uses it as promotion.
Promote to whom? I don't follow Sambo, Kickboxing, Wrestling, Karate, or Muay Thai. If someone originally from those sports becomes an MMA Champion, I don't suddenly see any of my feeds filled with posts from USA Sambo or any other orgs. Did USA Wrestling create a social media blitz when Daniel Cormier won? If they did then I didn't see it.
People who follow USA Judo are typically involved with Judo. Most probably know about Kayla winning. What would a social media post or two (which they already did) accomplish? I remember years ago she publicly stated she wanted nothing to do with USA Judo (for good reason).
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u/BreakGrouchy Jun 08 '25
I totally agree . I have a feeling my Sensei will mention it to the class .
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u/blandyetsalty Jun 08 '25
What I think is crazy is that USA has created some, if not the most, decorated athletes in other sports. With the population and resources this country has it can easily facilitate an amazing sporting community for judo development and yet it hasn’t. There have been amazingly talented judoka with heart and dedication from the U.S. and yet it’s nowhere near as popular as the rest of the world. The potential to create full teams in both men and women’s categories where they’re consistently at the top rankings is possible and yet the athletes working so hard to grow and represent the U.S. on the world stage are having their funding cut. The judoka in the U.S. deserves better.
I want to be clear, the efforts made by the people doing their best to help the existing athletes at the world stage haven’t gone unnoticed. I’m certainly not disregarding the good they currently do, I just think the potential is far higher than where it currently is.
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u/Adept_Visual3467 Jun 08 '25
They could be conflicted. The IJF has done everything it can to separate itself from mma and allegedly more violent martial arts. It is the “gentle way” and even safety gear like mouth guards and knee braces are banned because they don’t want the appearance that the sport could be dangerous. That political pressure could roll down hill.
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u/JaguarHaunting584 Jun 12 '25
lol USA judo sucks but this is...eh. judo doesnt have strong ties to mma and usa judo and other american judo accounts arent really followed by anyone besides judoka. i think maybe a few mma fans might watch the event and join a club but yeah US federations are really only known by current judoka. the marketing in judo is god awful in the usa but this isnt quite the angle i would take.
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u/zombosis Jun 08 '25
Did she use any judo in the fight though?
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u/invisiblehammer Jun 08 '25
Yes. I forget how she tripped her but she took her down twice using judo trips, and then had her pinned with no hopes of escaping both times until the end of the round. The second of which she used ude garami
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u/Highest-Adjudicator Jun 08 '25
Yes, the takedown that ultimately led to her finishing the fight was a very nice Kouchi Gari.
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion sankyu Jun 09 '25
Because as we all know Judo is nothing but hip throws lmao.
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u/rtsuya Nidan | Hollywood Judo | Tatami Talk Podcast Jun 09 '25
its also not judo unless i roll through those hip throws and get my back taken afterwards
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u/ganztief Jun 08 '25
It’s interesting that the takedown Kayla’s used to take Peña down in the first round was kosoto gake from a clinch. This is a fundamental technique in Gracie Jiujitsu one of the top 3 ways BJJ fighters take fights to the ground. My guess is Kayla got more into this technique in her MMA training as I never saw her use kosoto gake at the Olympics
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion sankyu Jun 09 '25
Judoka are big fans of the Kosoto Gake themselves though. I do not know why you are on about, it’s one of the most commonly employed techniques.
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u/ganztief Jun 09 '25
That’s not what the Olympics data shows. International judo put out the most used throws at the 2016 and 2024 games. The top 3 were uchi mata, seoi nage, and sumi gaeshi. The data report showed these 3 throws made up 50% of the successful throws.
My comment was specific to successful judo throws at the Olympics
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion sankyu Jun 09 '25
Its not the top throw no, but its highly prominent in the circuit. In Paris, it was a top 6 tachi waza and in the Baku grand slam it was the third most common tachi-waza.
Its efficacy is not unknown to Judoka at all. Why you would disqualify anything non-Olympic is weird to me as well, as the athletes are still going around the Grand Slams and World Championships.
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u/ganztief Jun 09 '25
Definitely not disqualifying other competitions, just speaking about the Olympics because I watched all of Kayla’s matches and did not see her attempt kosoto gake, however in mma she attempts it a lot in her fights, as the Gracies also did in their fights. I found that similarity interesting.
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u/powerhearse Jun 09 '25
Kosoto Gake is definitely not one of the top 3 common takedowns in BJJ
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u/ganztief Jun 09 '25
Not in sport jiujitsu but in MMA/vale tudo it is absolutely one of the top 3 ways Gracies have taken the fight to the ground in mma or vale tudo fights.
Rickson, Royce, Royler, Renzo, etc…they all used kosoto gake often, almost always from a double underhook or over/under clinch.
When you have time you should watch their fights.
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u/9u1940v8 Jun 09 '25
and here I thought from that other thread that judo was the one with the inferiority complex.
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u/New_Cardiologist5746 Jun 08 '25
KO Soto Gake does not sound very BJJ, nor you know Kayla’s training techniques. She has her Tokui Waza, but she was always an all around player.
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u/ganztief Jun 09 '25
The Gracies call it an outside leg trip, I don’t believe they use the Japanese terminology. But it’s the same technique they historically learned from Maeda in Brazil
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u/pegicorn Jun 08 '25
It's been less than 24 hours since the fight. Jimmy Pedro Jr. and USA Judo have both already posted about it on instagram. USA Judo was even posting about Kayla's title fight a few days ago before it happened.