I think martial arts based sports should have rules that give practitioners usefull skills and reflexes to defend themselves with in an emergency and the sport should not develop too much away from self defense aspects.
With that in mind I think the pinning is bad because people turn to their bellies to avoid the pin instead of learning to defend as best as possible from bottom position.
I feel that learning how to do submissions well on the ground also implies being good at pinning and controlling the opponent.
Many pins in Judo don't seem to control the arms well of the opponent so in the street you could still easily be punched or the person could pull a knife on you with their free hand.
I agree. Pins are good in competition, under the current rules, but I personally would prefer to spend more time learning how to end a real fight. I plan to take up bjj one of these days so I can do that. I will be happy to know both pins and submissions though.
Edit: the belly/turtle position is really bad. One of my senseis teaches against it.
I always pin first, then transition to submission when doing ne waza randori.
Just demonstrate the ability to control the la position for a few seconds, then start looking for the choke or arm.
but I personally would prefer to spend more time learning how to end a real fight.
That would be the ground and pound (and pokes and gouges). In a real fight, presumably one where you have no choice but to engage, why would you waste precious time going for submissions (other than armbars)?
Fight for dominant top position, then wreck their face once you get it. Pull their hair (if they're not bald) and rip their earlobes. Don't spend too long on it or others will gang up on you.
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u/Knobanious 2nd Dan BJA (Nidan) + BJJ Brown Jul 06 '25
I agree with the belly bit. Not sure why pinning is pointless.