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u/Prudent_Research_251 rokkyu Jul 21 '25
Can anyone explain what happened please?
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u/judo_matt Jul 21 '25
In osaekomi-waza, shime-waza or kansetsu-waza, over-stretching the leg is forbidden and the referee will announce mate immediately and sanction the athlete with shido (picture 18.38).
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u/Prudent_Research_251 rokkyu Jul 21 '25
Ok, thank you, who did the overstretching and where?
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u/SanityOrLackThereof Jul 21 '25
Look at white closely as he topples blue and starts to choke him. You can see that he's holding blue's left leg with his left arm as they fall to the ground, and keeps his grip on the leg as he begins to choke blue with his right arm.
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u/Prudent_Research_251 rokkyu Jul 22 '25
Thanks, why is this against the rules?
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u/wowspare Jul 22 '25
Leglock submissions are not allowed in Judo.
Any action that may look like it approaches a leglock will likely be called (in this video's case, a kneebar)
This is why I was taught to hook around the opponent's knee, and not the calf/ankle area when doing okuri eri jime. There's no danger of getting called for a possible kneebar when hooking around the knee, since the knee will flex when you hook and pull on it. When you grab around the ankle and pull, there's the risk of outstretching the knee and looking like a kneebar to the referee.
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u/theAltRightCornholio Jul 22 '25
See, at least that makes sense logically. I disagree with the ruling but this did hold the knee at full extension. Calling it a Suolev Stretch isn't fair IMO because the far leg isn't controlled and there's nothing stopping blue from rolling to his left apart from the choke.
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u/unattendedtrail Jul 24 '25
You can see white hold the backside of blues knee with his inside elbow and lose position on the back slowly moving toward the ankle.
He knew what he was doing to counter the rule. Mistakes are learning lessons.
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u/onomonothwip Jul 25 '25
Because the IJF is secretly in the bag for IBJJF, and is shunting as much technique over to us wrasslers as it can.
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u/SanityOrLackThereof Jul 22 '25
Likely because overextending your opponents leg has a high risk of causing debilitating injury.
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u/theAltRightCornholio Jul 22 '25
This is mis-applied here IMO. The far leg isn't controlled, so the hips can move to relieve pressure. The leg twists the body towards the choke, which is just leverage.
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u/SanityOrLackThereof Jul 22 '25
You try having your shin pulled up to almost touch your shoulder and then come back here and say that again.
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u/theAltRightCornholio Jul 22 '25
I would simply tap firmly on whoever did such a thing and they'd feel obligated to release me.
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u/SanityOrLackThereof Jul 22 '25
Won't really matter if you tapped when the damage is already done.
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u/fintip nidan + bjj black | newaza.club Jul 22 '25
I have. I've done this move and had it done to me. They're correct.
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u/BJJBean Jul 22 '25
And over extending your opponent's arm is just fine? They removed judo from judo. It's okay to admit it.
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u/SanityOrLackThereof Jul 22 '25
An arm injury is generally easier to heal and not suffer permanent debilitating injuries from.
No they did not "remove judo from judo". Stop whining. If you're in Judo to cripple people then you're here for the wrong reasons.
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u/awkwardturtletime Jul 22 '25
You're not going to cripple someone by essentially making them do an uchimata.
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u/SanityOrLackThereof Jul 22 '25
People always underestimate how easy it is to seriously injure another person.
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u/fintip nidan + bjj black | newaza.club Jul 22 '25
Kneebars are very safe. Hamstrings are robust and very hard to stretch to severe debilating injury. This is not a particularly dangerous move and tbh I'd love to see kneebars and straight ankle locks brought back into judo newaza.
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u/SanityOrLackThereof Jul 22 '25
Dude if you want to do bjj then just do bjj. Why is it always bjj practicioners who have these terrible takes?
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u/fintip nidan + bjj black | newaza.club Jul 22 '25
My dude, I do and teach both and have a higher rank in judo than I do BJJ.
Judoka should absolutely take the knowledge gained in BJJ into account when it comes to newaza questions, just as BJJ should take judoka's wisdom into account when it comes to standup.
What argument do you have to support your position? These moves are part of the historical judo canon, and are allowed in sambo, which is just a judo derivative.
I'm sure somewhere in a sambo board someone is suggesting they allow strangles and some samboist is responding with exasperation how it's always judoka that have these awful takes.
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u/PazsitZ Jul 24 '25
While I sort of get it. In this case the leg holding was just a control to avoid escape from the choke.
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u/judo_matt Jul 25 '25
It's legal to hold the leg. It's illegal to attempt to submit using the leg itself, and the picture in the rules is this exact situation. It's not possible for white to pull on the leg more; white is on his back and pulling blue's leg back into white's chest. White has a great choke in, doesn't need to pull back on blue's leg so hard, and loses because he doesn't know the rules well enough. White looks like he is also cranking on the leg, and he needs to make it appear otherwise.
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u/fintip nidan + bjj black | newaza.club Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
The Judo community is ignorant about leglocks.
You could not hyperextend a knee with this motion. You could sprain a hamstring at worst, if uke isn't flexible /lacks range of motion.
Clear to me that the leg was only used for control. Frustrating decision.
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u/disposablehippo shodan Jul 21 '25
It's not "no leg touching" but "no overstretching leg".
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u/Highest-Adjudicator Jul 21 '25
Still a terrible rule. Clearly wasn’t stretching it in a way that would actually cause serious injury to the knee.
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Jul 21 '25
[deleted]
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u/Infamous_Macaron_348 Jul 21 '25
This wasn’t a suloev stretch. He’s just keeping his balance.
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u/fintip nidan + bjj black | newaza.club Jul 22 '25
It's not balance, you hold the leg to prevent uke from rolling out of the choke.
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u/Uneaten_Soul1497 Jul 21 '25
Its just a bow and arrow done correctly, so dumb that he didn't get that
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u/Acceptable_Map_8110 Jul 22 '25
This is almost as bad as the karate guy losing after KO’ing his opponent.
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u/Sure-Plantain8914 Jul 24 '25
Both standing , not new aza no leg touch, should have been mate, leg stretch also illegal
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Jul 22 '25
This seems fair to me. Rules are the rules and he was stretching the leg super far. It’s not that clear from this angle.
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u/RippaRapaNui Jul 26 '25
Yeah it’s hard to see, but if you stop it a 0:06 you can see blue’s leg stretched all the way to his leg.
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u/ppaul1357 shodan Jul 22 '25
I honestly don’t understand why people are so upset about it. This rule has been in place for quite some time and someone who competes Judo should know that. It’s also very easy to perform this technique without overextending Ukes leg. It also kind of makes sense to make that illegal because leglocks have been illegal in Judo competitions since 1916 and overextending someone’s leg even when you are in Shime Waza and even when it’s not really dangerous is still basically a leg lock and therefore it makes sense to disallow it.
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u/Few_Advisor3536 judoka Jul 22 '25
Everyones talking about the legs but isnt an opponent standing up when connected to the other person whether submission or not instant matè?
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u/judo_matt Jul 22 '25
From the rules, mate section:
e) When during ne-waza there is no evident progress.
f) When one athlete regains a standing or semi-standing position from ne-waza bearing his opponent on his back, with the hands completely clear of the tatami and without his opponent being able to progress the action.
g) When one athlete in, or from ne-waza regains a standing position and lifts the opponent, who is lying on their back with one (1) or both legs around any part of the standing athlete, clear of the tatami.
...
j) When tori applies osaekomi-waza, shime-waza or kansetsu-waza by stretching uke’s leg in ne-waza. “Mate!” must be called immediately and a shido given.
Standing is not sufficient for mate. Blue needs to stand and get his hands off the mat for f, lift white for g, or simply be able to get away for e.
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u/Right_Situation1588 shodan Jul 22 '25
The problem of the leg was how it was stretched, if he hadnt stretched so much or had held on the opponent's knee, there was no issue.
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u/Thiccobama69 nikyu | Ko uchi makikomi Jul 21 '25
That's genuinely the stupidest thing I've seen in my life, and i live in poland!