r/judo • u/GoalJust1614 • 6d ago
General Training Judo with leg grabs
https://youtube.com/shorts/8J9Q4z0lsvo?si=bh4yLtqjRD7LB6sgA funky, unusual but proven to work throw
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u/Talothyn nidan 6d ago
This is one of those moves that works way better than you think it will.
It looks stupid, but it works surprisingly well.
I wish I still had a place to train and film, I would show a video of one of my old sparring partners who was a high school wrestler, who loved doing this to me, and I was a Judo Shodan at the time.
Now, what this video does not show, is the setup.
I will attempt to describe it, but don't be too upset if I screw it up.
Basically, the idea behind this is you have to threaten with an ankle pick or an outside single-leg a few times, preferably from out of distance, so your opponent is used to you shooting without a grip.
Then when you move in and reach for the sleeve grip, they are not afraid to give it to you because "this guy doesn't use grips for most of his attacks".
Once you have the sleeve, you dance to the outside like you would for an outside single, and go. And like any other throw, you have to commit to it.
However, you can combo this with several other things if they desperation sprawl to avoid it.
It also feeds in to drop seoi games and kata guruma games really well.
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u/Rodrigoecb 6d ago
The thing is that the angle in the video is wrong, this works when uke overcommits one leg forward.
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u/GoalJust1614 6d ago
Here’s a YouTube link. Some are done like an ouchi gari with hand without wrist control. Others done with the wrist and look like a wheeling throw. The sambist who does venik (move in question) is a bit of a specialist. All his victims are world championship participants. Note how he used it to set up a Juji. https://youtu.be/4n0qQRF3T8M?si=Ml7u33TFCdPkG3sP
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 6d ago
Man, people out here see the BJJ gis and assume OP doesn't know what he's talking about.
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u/CaribooS13 Shodan (CAN) NCCP DI Cert. + Ju-jutsu kai (SWE) sandan A Instr. 6d ago
The Force is strong with this one.
Either his midichlorian count is off the charts or uke is highly cooperative.
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u/GoalJust1614 6d ago
Being skeptical is a normal response to this technique. It’s been done at the highest levels of competition in freestyle wrestling and sambo. Not saying it’s bread and butter move but it has worked plenty.
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u/Rodrigoecb 6d ago
The thing is that Sambo and BJJ score throws where uke falls belly down, Judo doesn't.
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 5d ago
Bro posted a compilation of dudes scoring what would be ippon with it...
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u/Rodrigoecb 5d ago
And the point is? i can make a compilation of double and single legs ippons, doesn't changes the fact that 90% of the times they were attempted they never scored because uke defends properly. Im not saying its not a valid technique, its just low percentage or superseded by other techniques like kata guruma
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 5d ago
Nobody is claiming this is a super high percentage staple or anything. OP said himself its far from a bread and butter attack. t's a niche technique that is interesting for its counterintuitive mechanics with some real application. Should we stop discussing harai because it is very low percentage relative to adhi guruma on the world tour? All i'm saying is that you can make a compilation of somebody hitting ippons against elite level competition then the technique isnt "aikido."
Not to mention that non-scoring leg attacks were quite useful in pre ban Judo as a low commitment stalling strategy and newaza transition. This technique seems particularly nice for the latter-you can see a neat combination with juji exploiting the sprawl reaction.
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u/Rodrigoecb 5d ago
Weird that you open up with "nobody is claiming" and then proceed to strawman the hell out by claiming i called the technique aikido.
What i did however is that the technique as shown in the video is badly performed, this is in essence a super low te guruma, its the same mechanics of blocking the lead leg and then throwing uke at the opposite side with a wheel motion.
In the video shown originally he is throwing towards the lead leg which is of course not going to happen with any kind of resistance which is why it looks like aikido (which again, i never claimed it was)
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 5d ago
From context, it seemed like your remark was a justification of Cariboo's asinine midichlorian aikido comment. My apologies if I misunderstood.
Regarding the performance of the technique, I dont think it is demonstrated optimally, but I do think that the camera angle makes it look worse than it is. To my eye, relative to tori uke looks to be in a square stance which (much to my chagrin) tends to be what people default to when demonstrating techniques.
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u/Rodrigoecb 4d ago
1.- I don't know about the aikido comment, most aikido techniques do work from a mechanical point of view, but they are just too impractical to use in randori/competition without severe tweaking.
2.- Its not the camera angle, it is clear that uke has his left leg forward which is why tori has to do a penetration step in order to catch the ankle.
Even if uke was in a square stance you can still do the technique correctly by entering from an angle, once you see this as a te guruma variation its easy to understand and pull off.
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u/SucksAtJudo 6d ago
Interesting, but this looks like something that you have to "sell" your opponent on. Or rather, that you need to "sell" them something else so that this hits them as something unexpected, almost like a sucker punch because they were not anticipating you committing to this.
Is that kind of the case?
Do you ever run into situations where you can just feel that the opponent just isn't going to give it up and you just know this isn't happening?
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u/Sad_Calligrapher_697 5d ago
When leg grabs come back to judo this and morote gari are on my list.
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u/Judotimo Nidan, M6-81kg, BJJ blue III 6d ago
Just a reminder: Leg grabs did no go anywhere. They are still part of Judo, as long as we all keep teaching and using them in Randori. Shiai is not all there is.
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u/powerhearse 6d ago
This is nice in theory but it isnt reflected in reality. 99% of the judoka who started since this ban have never trained leg grabs at all except if they do kata
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u/Judotimo Nidan, M6-81kg, BJJ blue III 6d ago
So, do more kata. And train leg grabs in class.
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u/SucksAtJudo 6d ago
Apologies in advance for those who are tired of seeing me post this literally every time the subject of leg grabs come up
As my former coach used to say whenever he decided to teach morote gari, te guruma, or whatever other technique the IJF didn't like that week, "I teach Kodokan judo and Idgaff about the IJF, and this technique is in the Kodokan syllabus so that is what we're learning today".
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u/misterlawcifer 6d ago
doesnt look like he's ever done that in a live round
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u/GoalJust1614 6d ago
I’ve done it plenty. And I have seen it done to guys way better than you as well.
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u/misterlawcifer 6d ago
ok sensei tuff guy ossss
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u/GoalJust1614 6d ago
No one’s toughness was in question. You could have been inquisitive and ask a question of proof or whatnot but you chose to be a butt. Can be a positive learning experience without sarcasm or insulting my skills and credibility.
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u/onomonothwip 6d ago
Look. I don't honestly think it works at a high level myself. The videos u/GoalJust1614 has posted - I'm not sure about the skill levels, but he did use a fairly safer version of it successfully on a blue belt - which hasn't exactly convinced me.
One thing is for sure though - u/GoalJust1614 is legit. He's legit enough I'm willing to be open about this move, a little. You should probably look into who you are denigrating.
Or better yet, just have some respect for other people in the community.
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u/Rodrigoecb 6d ago
Wrong angle, i understand what you are trying to do but from that angle uke will defend.
This technique is used when uke overcommits a foot forward (usually after defending) and you attack on an agle that its parallel to the line drawn between his two foot.
A caveat is that uke will most likely fall face down and thus a no score in judo, so most people in judo from that position would shoot for a kata guruma.
Anyway, its a cool technique but for BJJ and you need to work on your angles
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u/onomonothwip 6d ago
This looks like its begging for a very problematic sprawl directly on my back, but I dunno.
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u/GermanJones nikyu 6d ago
you mean Aikido?
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u/GoalJust1614 6d ago
No. This is not aikido. It’s timed and properly executed inverted ankle pick, not a wrist lock. It’s been done at the highest levels of freestyle wrestling and sambo wrestling by people much more skilled than you or I. I imagine it might happen in judo given the leg grab allowance.
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u/Knobanious 2nd Dan BJA (Nidan) + BJJ Brown 6d ago edited 6d ago
You can generally tell what leg grabs techniques would work well in gi grappling especially Judo. By simply watching older judo comps from the 90s and 00s. Have to say while cool looking I don't think this is all that practical against someone fast and reactive on their feet.
Seems like this technique could be killed by uki just having half decent grips on Tori. Or by sprawling.