Flying armbar in comp?

[u/ImaginaryJellyfish48]

In competition could you hit a flying armbar like Demetrious Johnson hit in the ufc. Each technique used is legal in the you are performing an ura nage straight into a juiji gatame (armbar) so I would assume it is ok in competition however the ref could see it as dangerous as you might not have full control of uke when going for the submission. Anyone seen this in competition before and should I attempt it? 😂

[u/SnooPandas363]

Tobi Juji Gatame is banned. Kansetsu Waza can only legally applied when it‘s a clear Newaza situation

[u/ImaginaryJellyfish48 → u/SnooPandas363]

Thanks, saved me a Hansoku-make lol

[u/JudoRef → u/ImaginaryJellyfish48]

Shido

[u/silverfoxxflame]

So the closest one that is to my understanding legal is that if you go for a sacrifice throw like tomoe nage and you get your entire body/back onto the ground, then abandon the throw and instead shoot for an arm bar, you are technically counted as on the ground and the technique becomes valid for competition.

of note: This is something that was talked about in my dojo at some point, but I have not actually seen anything like it in competition, at least not at the same speed that we had done in practice (which was essentially start the tomoe nage and immediately abandon it as you get to the ground, don't even attempt the throw, just swap straight to an armbar as soon as you're on your back). Some people also questioned whether it would be called as legal or not so... your mileage may vary, this genuinely may be an illegal maneuver, or it may come down to a ref's interpretation of something/how they saw the events unfold on the mat.

[u/According_Fail_990 → u/silverfoxxflame]

Haven’t reffed in a while, but if you abandon it as soon as soon as your back hits the floor and immediately twist into the attempted juji I’m probably giving that a shido for a false attack.

[u/mbergman42]

So…ura nage, and catching the arm bar as Tori falls/hits?

There’s a lot of precedence for catching an arm bar at the end of the throw. Being a little early doesn’t sound like a problem to me, but a referee may be able to weigh in.

[u/ImaginaryJellyfish48 → u/mbergman42]

Yeah like as the fall going into the armbar

[u/Mobile-Cup2199]

You can do a sitting armbar which is legal in judo rule set.

[u/Uchimatty]

Possibly shido, possibly you lose by ippon. Depends on the ref and how well your opponent manages to spike your head into the ground.

[u/ImaginaryJellyfish48 → u/Uchimatty]

Wdym?

[u/Uchimatty → u/ImaginaryJellyfish48]

If your back hits the mat you lose by ippon

[u/ImaginaryJellyfish48 → u/Uchimatty]

It’s only ippon if the ref views it as their technique though

[u/Uchimatty → u/ImaginaryJellyfish48]

That’s not an actual rule. People have lost matches by failing kouchi makikomi and ending up on their back. A ref in a circuit event last year tried to award no score for a throw that “wasn’t a recognizable judo technique” and got reprimanded.

Flying armbar is a self-ippon if a ref wants it to be. And most judo refs will want it to be.

[u/SelarDorr → u/Uchimatty]

you have no idea what youre talking about in terms of judo, or in terms of flying arm bars.

go read article 14 of the IJF definition of ippon.

[u/ImaginaryJellyfish48 → u/Uchimatty]

An ippon cannot be awarded if there is no technique it is just unlucky that some refs make mistakes, if it is clear that there is no technique then it should be fine to land on your back in an arm bar