r/judo • u/KourageTheKoop • 1d ago
Beginner Beginner issues- Pulling Mechanics and training barriers
Note: The below is a bit of venting and hope seeking so I don’t get discouraged. I am so used to going to different MMA gyms or in general dealing with trainers who just aren’t good teachers. So, I am hoping I can get some insight to see if this is common or “off”. And I was a personal trainer and mentored at my IT job so I know good and bad teaching lol.
Beginner here, I’m a strong guy but I’d say I am not very coordinated lol. It takes me some tries but usually when I have something, I repeat it, feel it, then my brain doesn’t forget it. I can do this very quickly. I currently go to a Gi only Judo dojo. An issue I have noticed is that my sensei, and the black belts who help out, seem to forget to tell me important queues when teaching throws.
Something I will hear from one, I then learn an even more important aspect from another. Shoot, even a green belt kid told me the proper way to grip the Lapel. All of this is kindve scattered and “by chance” tip passings. Which I don’t mind but it seems too unstructured at times for such a steep learning curve martial art like Judo.
These are some really nice guys, Randori is fun and I learned the ground game aspect is my favorite. But as a man, it does get a bit tiresome to feel looked at as a silly boy when not getting something and sensei is almost puzzled as to what I am not understanding at times. The issue is so many important details are left out. Not to mention, they get confused when explaining because of the mirrored teaching of my right is their left lol. This is something I experienced ALOT especially im these environments but this seems to have a bit more hope to it.
Main point: I feel I will likely be filling in most of the gaps with online videos and readings. I currently take many notes. But all the little details are different, even the way they tie their belt is slightly different than how sensei shows it 😂(his looks right though). I am trying not to learn other tips just for him to tell me its not correct but he tends to miss telling me the parts about what my upper body is doing (not just my arms) while my lower body is doing something.
I want to know if anyone else experienced this? How did you deal with this if you did? What are some tips or visualization queues that helped you with the proprioception (footwork and pulling simultaneously).?
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u/Otautahi 22h ago
I think you might be hoping too much that there is one right way of doing things.
Some clubs teach a much more detailed system, but that too has disadvantages. Differences in your body type can easily negate any specific details.
Currently there’s a bit of a revolution happening in how adult recreational beginners are taught. So the internet is a bit divisive on the topic right now, and as with all things online, overemphasising the importance of /small differences.
I think it helps to think of learning judo like learning to surf. There’s some basic overall shapes to get the hang of, but most of the fun and learning is from being out on waves trying things out and developing your own style.
The 3-kyu lapel detail might be helpful today, but I guarantee there are 30 other ways of holding and using your lapel grip. There are people who could give 2-3 hr seminars on tsurite grips alone, but I think it would be not useful for someone starting out. And even then, it would only be one approach among many.
It’s useful to measure progress in the big picture. Is your ukemi getting better? Are you able to fire off forward throw attacks at a good rate? Are you starting to catch people with techniques in randori.
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u/KourageTheKoop 22h ago
Nah its not about “one right way” its about it being details left out then no ones telling me the intricacies. Your second paragraph is literally what I DONT get queues on…ever. And luckily im smart enough to ask but its some times also left out of explanation if my master doesn’t fully understand what im asking because english is his second language.
I feel the stepping out part (which is paramount to the throw) is likely to be different do to my size and also opponents, but I feel I get this one size fits all teaching and something feels imbalanced when im doing the throws. Im certain itll all come to me when I learn my way but I was asking for any tips of people who had to do so.
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u/Otautahi 22h ago
Well - you’re right that quality of teaching really varies.
As to your question, when you’re throwing there’s usually very little pulling. You generally use your arms to create tension, or to adjust angles to allow you to negate your partners defences and then use your body weight to make the attack.
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u/KourageTheKoop 21h ago
Hmmm interesting take, cause I hear “pull-pull-pull” alot in class and on some videos. But what you consider pull and what they could consider pull, may be two different things. I do like your explanation though and will see if I can get a feel for it. Thanks
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u/Otautahi 19h ago
If by “pull” you mean trying to pull your opponent onto their toes using your upper body in order to off balance uke, that is not going to work.
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u/judofox1 godan 20h ago
Don't be too hard on yourself. Judo is an educational tool. You can understand the principles to apply a technique without being able to apply it simply because you did not build the feeling for the required movement. The connection between your brain and the rest of your body takes time. Don't forget about the fact that different ukes will provide you different situations. It's not surprising that the greatest competitors use a very limited number of techniques in order to be successful.
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u/Which_Cat_4752 ikkyu 23h ago
Well first of all you don’t know who’s been giving you bad unsolicited advice at this point and trust me, MANY people in recreational judo club have no business telling a newbie what to do. They think they know something but they don’t.
Look for input from actual competitors, either active ones or retired ones, preferably someone got some achievements from national level.
Nothing bothers me more when some crappy old black belt telling a newbie “pull more, hip in more, more kuzushi”. Or a green belt trying to teach a yellow belt. Dude you sure that yellow belt won’t beat you in randori just out of athleticism or explosiveness?
It’s better to find good competitors to guide you through the drill so your body can remember while receiving their technique.
Once your breakfall is on point, usually a few months jn, you can start to look for private session and specific coaching from good competition coaches. It speed up your progress A LOT. It also helps you to recognize what to do in your group class.
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u/KourageTheKoop 23h ago
Yoooooo thank you sooo much! I can tell you’re probably one of the realest guys in your groups in any aspect when people are involved because you speak JUST like me. I shouldve known about the private sessions idea. Its crazy how when I was a personal trainer, I always would tell people “group classes is cool if thats all youll do, but its not good for long term. You want to get personal training for real results.(super paraphrase)” and even in MMA classes or boxing, I always wanted 1 on 1 classes but never thought to get that for judo.
I only know of one other reliable place that I can go, itll be 35 a drop in session. I hope to find someone who could possibly teach me some stuff there. Thanks alot!
Also, do you think since its very new for me, itd be wise to go to this new dojo and ask a guy to possibly throw me around in exchange for some advice lessons? Or would this likely get me too banged up? Lol
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u/schurem yonkyu 1d ago
As upu say, there is a lot to learn. So don't expect or even try to get it right right away.
First get your ukemi right, the art of falling. It is so important. Not only for safety but also because good ukemi means ypu can be relaxed and let yourself be thrown without your ego getting in your way.
How does one eat a whale using a teaspoon? With small bites. So yes, a green belt teaches you how to grip. Small bites. Sensei can't be there all the time every time. You must have patience. Relax. Have fun.