r/judo • u/Gman10respect nikyu • 22h ago

Technique Coach says technique is illegal but I keep seeing it in competition.

https://youtu.be/cXPosRwVxdw?si=LNNG2DQKTnF2LYOU

For context I'm not talking about the leg grab part, But my coach has said to me that this is head diving. But when I watch Judo on the TV it happens all the time. Does anybody know if this would be head diving or not?

34 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

32 comments sorted by

11

u/johnpoulain nidan 21h ago

Under the new rules doing a somersault for a throw is not allowed, but rolling over a shoulder is; as an example of what people get away with at international level, see below.

Your local competition refs may feel differently.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/somersault-sode-127915304

9

u/judo1234567 20h ago

Not just under the new rules under the rules as they have been for decades

-5

u/Jakaloper 18h ago

That rule sounds so bad. Basically all judo is from what I hear is so nage hip toss and foot sweeps

6

u/judo1234567 17h ago

No, what is bad is someone ending up in a wheelchair for the rest of their life, which is what this rule is about preventing. And before you ask, yes I do know of more than one case with actions like this that this has happened.

3

u/rtsuya Nidan | Hollywood Judo | Tatami Talk Podcast 16h ago

Just happened couple months ago in US Open. Guy head dive for uchimata broke his neck and is now paralyzed.

2

u/ukifrit blind judoka 12h ago

Damn!

1

u/KosotoGari 2h ago

That's terrible. Are you sure it was a head dive? Was he the "tori"?

2

u/rtsuya Nidan | Hollywood Judo | Tatami Talk Podcast 2h ago

Yes I'm sure, and yes he's the Tori

1

u/KosotoGari 2h ago

Why did he try this if it's now illegal? didn't he know?

2

u/rtsuya Nidan | Hollywood Judo | Tatami Talk Podcast 1h ago

i dont know the person or his coach so i can't say for sure. But the problem is leading up to the Paris Olympics, they tightened up head dive rules which led to some unnecessary head dive calls on safe throws in the Olympics (albeit correctly called). Post Olympics earlier this year they loosened the rules which allows the shohei ono style uchimata head dive again basically and leaving A LOT of discretion up to the referee... the problem is that kinda style of throws are skirting the boundaries of what is dangerous. Especially when a novice tries to emulate it that's how you end up with what happened. Coaches also have an incentive to teach their kids/recreational competitors these dangerous throws. You also see it demonstrated this way on Instagram and youtube. Kids and novice people don't know any better and will just copy it.

This is why I will always be for the stricter head dive rules, people who argue this as an example of Judo being "neutered" deserved to be ridiculed. There's nothing like being an effective martial artist or self defense like being paralyzed and having a wife and two children to support.

-7

u/Straight-Magician953 17h ago

Thats clearly an exaggeration but yep, that’s exactly the reason why I quit Judo for bjj. I feel the sport got so heavy regulated that all of is essence is gone (at competitive level) and as a side effect of this, it also became a lot more boring to watch. I will forever have Judo at my heart tho

1

u/KosotoGari 2h ago

became a lot more boring to watch

2 things here: First, you don't have to quit practicing, just don't watch. Second, BJJ is way way more boring to watch even than the most watered down Judo possible.

-4

u/Jakaloper 17h ago

I was overstating but everything I hear judo has been castrated by the ioc and its overseeing rules committee

5

u/Repulsive-Owl-5131 shodan 20h ago

yes new rules also forbid this. But there was grabbing of leg in this version which obviously has been banned since 2010. But during Rondas Judo career this would have been fine

9

u/Otautahi 22h ago edited 19h ago

What Shintaro just showed should be legal - his head fully clears the mat.

(Edit. As others have pointed out, the Shintaro verison is not IJF legal).

If you’re competing locally I can totally imagine getting HSK for head diving for the same thing.

5

u/JellyBender shodan 21h ago

Hello friend. I think your information is slightly outdated. There's a new ruling where you can't do a somersault to finish a throw.

"Article 18.2.1

It is forbidden to somersault forwards when uke is on the shoulders or the back of tori."

latest ijf ruleset as of 2025

2

u/Substantial_Tooth770 20h ago

Thanks for the update!

5

u/judo1234567 20h ago

This isn’t new. There has long been a misconception that the head had to touch for it to be hansoku make, that was never the case.

2

u/Otautahi 19h ago

Thanks - I see you’ve posted extensively about this before. Have edited my post to clarify.

2

u/JellyBender shodan 21h ago

Under the latest ruleset, it's no longer legal, but not because of head diving. Instead, the new somersaulting rule makes this technically illegal.

No comments on the inconsistent refereeing in recent competitions. It's usually to be expected when new rules are implemented.

"Article 18.2.1

It is forbidden to somersault forwards when uke is on the shoulders or the back of tori."

latest ijf ruleset as of 2025

4

u/judo1234567 20h ago edited 20h ago

This isn’t new, it is just rewording of the old rule relating to diving.

2

u/JellyBender shodan 19h ago

Oh right. Good point. The somersault thing has been banned for many years now.

1

u/Gman10respect nikyu 19h ago

So is it ok do to this in competition then?

3

u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 17h ago

If you roll to the side. Instead of directly over.

1

u/Gman10respect nikyu 17h ago

What do you mean? Wouldn't that make it head diving?

2

u/judo1234567 17h ago

It is the straight over part that makes it diving. If you are turning then it can be ok. I actually thought the one where he threw him without explanation was probably ok.

1

u/Gman10respect nikyu 16h ago

OK, thanks for elaborating

2

u/judo1234567 19h ago

In relation to the video, I only watched a couple of throws. One was most likely hansoku make, the other had enough turn to be ok.

1

u/Uchimatty 3h ago

Head diving rule has been removed, but this is illegal because of the leg grab. Should also be noted this is not Ronda's move. It was invented by Kenji Maruyama (Joshiro Maruyama's father) and was a very popular move before the leg grab ban.

1

u/Gman10respect nikyu 1h ago

If I don't grab the leg and instead grab the skirt (I'm pretty sure that's legal in the uk) would it be legal someone said that it would be sumo rolling and that's illegal.

-1

u/Libra7409 15h ago

I asked a referee. Apart from grabbing the leg, this technique is permitted.

1

u/Gman10respect nikyu 15h ago

OK thank you very much