r/judo • u/Some_Razzmatazz_9365 yonkyu • 9h ago
General Training Kesa gatame troubleshooting
Hello everyone! So for context, I've been cross training in judo and BJJ and stumbled across an issue I've been dealing with. I'm a little bit on the smaller side, (5'5" 66kg) and noticed that when I hold my partners down in kesa gatame in randori and rolling my back is able to be taken or it's easy for the opponent to escape (especially higher ranked BJJ partners). The position for me usually leads to a scramble. Are there any micro adjustments I can make to make my kesa gatame stronger for positional advancements?
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u/Just_Ad3004 shodan 9h ago
Easy fix is do kesa with underhook. Pull up hard on the arm you have trapped and put all your weight on uke.
The thing is though, you have to be able to adjust and go to a different position in kesa or switch or to another pin. This is accomplished through sparring and experience.
Another bonus is to do the escapes that are being done to you. People will show you the counters.
Good luck
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u/Northern64 9h ago
How secure is your control of their arm? Are you able to prevent them from getting their elbow to the mat?
Where is your head? Placement options are varied but general advice will be to keep your head low and heavy, I'm fond of driving my head into their temple
How active are you legs in adjusting your base, and are your hips on the ground, high, or somewhere in-between?
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u/GlitteringWinter3094 7h ago
In kesa gatame, it is essential to control the arm and shoulder of the side you are on. If they can get their elbow to the mat and turn towards you, you will lose the position. To combat this, you must have firm control of the arm at the elbow. It also massively helps to put your thigh under their shoulder blade, so it is harder for them to turn into you.
Pro tip: if you very slightly raise your butt off the mat (like, a millimeter off the floor), your weight will be mostly on their chest, rather than the floor. This will suck the air out of them and make it much more difficult for them to move. Don’t raise up too high, or you risk getting rolled over.
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u/The_One_Who_Comments nikyu 7h ago
You didn't really give us any detail for how you do it, so here are some other tips.
Make sure your front leg is roughly parallel to your partner's spine: this let's you resist their bridge.
Make sure your other leg's knee is pointed forwards, not up, and that your foot is not too far back: this prevents your partner from hooking your leg.
You can also scoot your body down towards the ground. It's kind of hard to describe... But you can change the point where your chest touches their chest to be further away from the center line. This prevents them from rolling you over. Also, you can then push off your foot and press into them sideways, to apply more pressure than your weight alone.
Also, you need a strong control of their arm. The makura-kesa suggestion is important if you're smaller.
If you learn all the escapes to kesa, you will understand why the various details matter.
Good BJJ guys will scoot out the back unless you are properly skilled and strong though - learn to bail when you no longer have a good pinning position.
Keep practicing, and have fun!
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u/Some_Razzmatazz_9365 yonkyu 3h ago
Sorry, I know I was really vague. These are definitely some good points that I'll consider. A lot of the stronger BJJ guys are really good at shrimping and butt scooting out, I guess I just have to bail and work on another position instead of being stubborn with it. Thanks!
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u/Judoka94 5h ago
I’m a big fan of some of the key points Kathy Hubble talks about in this video. https://youtu.be/0Ka4-q8g1K8
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u/Lanky_Trifle6308 nidan 9h ago
I’m on the smaller side as well, and I’ve made kesa a very strong position in my ground work. Here’s what I’ve discovered:
Thing 1- use the makura grip/pillow grip. Reach your cross face hand far enough to grip your own hamstring tendon with all five fingers. The key is to wedge your opponents shoulder off of the mat with your near thigh while doing this. Put your temple next to his/hers.
Thing 2- make sure your ribcage is firmly wedged against the opponent, and your butt is fully on the mat with no space between your bodies anywhere. Post with your feet actively and use them to wedge against- not on top of- the opponent.
Thing 3- keep control of their arm above the elbow and wedge it against your far thigh and keep it tight to your body. This prevents them from rolling to free that arm, which is pretty essential for freeing the head.
Thing 4- the second they bridge and your head pitches forward, or they roll and your head cross their midline, bail and transition to side control or north south. If you go to side control, use your hip to sort of shovel their arm as you go to lift their shoulder off the mat with your lower body. Wedge underneath them with your knee. Kashiwazaki does a ton of this, watch some of his transition work to see what I mean.
Thing 5- unless you want to win by osaekomi, develop attacks that feed off of the opponents escape attempts. Use Things 1-4 to make your kesa a bitch to get out of, leaving a predictable (and hopefully desperate/frustrated) handful of options. As soon as they commit to one of these, transition to the attack.