r/linguisticshumor • u/Living-Ready • 21d ago
Phonetics/Phonology Guess my native language based on my opinion of vowels
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago
Also feel free to destroy me in the comments based on how much you disagree with me
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago edited 21d ago
I love how nobody is speaking up for [ɶ] and [ɞ]
edit: also [ʏ] because it doesn't exist outside of conlangs
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u/EldritchWeeb 21d ago
[ʏ] is, I think, how a German lax/short /y/ is generally transcribed
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u/scatterbrainplot 21d ago
And in Laurentian French too! (But whether it's now phonemic is debated.)
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u/_Dragon_Gamer_ 21d ago
Cuz the former isn't real haha
ɶ̝ is real though since well I use it every day in Flemish for <ui>. And while it's not the most beautiful of vowels, I will defend it
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u/Background-Ad4382 21d ago
we use ɞ in Hsiang (western dialect Loudi/Shaoyang)
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u/_Dragon_Gamer_ 21d ago
Oh yeah I wasn't implying that that one wasn't real. It's ɶ that isn't
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
'Cept of course they're both real. Though [ɞ] is probably more common and easier to pronounce. (It just kinda sounds like /ʊ/ to me though. But that's not saying much, Most rounded monophthongs sound like either /ʊ/ or /ɚ/ to me.)
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u/COArSe_D1RTxxx 21d ago
rounded upside-down a?
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
Well, No, That'd be [ɶ̝̈], Which is probably more reasonably written as [ɞ̞]. Since [ɶ] is defined as a front vowel, [ɶ̝] would be the rounded equivalent of [æ], More or less identical to [œ̞]. Though in a perfect IPA it'd instead be the rounded equivalent of [æ̝], With [ɶ] itself being the rounded equivalent of [æ], And [a] being a fully open central vowel with no rounded equivalent, But alas, We liven't with a perfect IPA.
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
Cuz the former isn't real haha
Hahaha I get it, 'Cause that's clearly not true, Right? Pretty funny joke!
([ɶ] does exist, Because [a] isn't fully open, It can't be because it's front, So the fully open [ä] indeed has no rounded equivalent, But the front [a] does, Just as the back [ɑ] does, And if you disagree... I mean you're just wrong? I dunno what else to tell you. I can send you a recording of me pronouncing it, If you like.)
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u/_Dragon_Gamer_ 18d ago
Well good to know that I was wrong
Since it's a phoneme I pronounce on the daily too
But I'd heard people say it's not real so I just assumed that I only thought I was pronouncing the phoneme while it's actually ɶ̝ or something
I would still be interested in that recording though, to know for sure that it's the one I pronounce too
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u/Living-Ready 18d ago
Isn't /a/ a central vowel though? (Ignore what the diagram says) but I always assumed it is
If by front /a/ you mean /æ/ or something slightly lower then yeah
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u/SolviKaaber 20d ago
[ʏ] is in Icelandic and is very common, represented by the letter u. While [u] is represented with ú.
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u/The_Brilli 20d ago
So is German a conlang. Huh, the more you know
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u/TheMightyTorch [θ,ð,θ̠̠,ð̠̠,ɯ̽,e̞,o̞]→[θ,δ,þ,ð,ω,ᴇ,ɷ] 20d ago
German speaker here, technically, standard German is artificial, so kinda?
anyways [ʏ] and [ø] are very real and [o] isn't too bad, although a bit too unserious in unstressed positions
But I do agree that open rounded vowels are not real, especially [ɒ]
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
[ɒ] is really just the liminal space between [ɑ] and [ɔ], Every possible allophone of it sounds like one or the other of those, Maybe both. At least [ɶ] sounds pretty distinct.
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u/potatosalad2005 21d ago
I believe Estuary has the near close near front rounded vowel as the standard realization of the foot vowel, alongside some other varieties of English 🥲
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
Hey frick you man [ʏ] occurs in my native dialect of English!!!
For example in the word [fɐˈkjʏw]
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u/lawrenceisgod69 21d ago
Bulgarian
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago edited 21d ago
I like the vowels in Bulgarian but unfortunately they don't have [ɨ]
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u/Witherboss445 21d ago
Mandarin?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago
正确!
Try guessing the variety too?
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u/RijnBrugge 21d ago
You consider Wu a variety of Mandarin?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago
No
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u/RijnBrugge 21d ago
Aight, wasn’t aware any Mandarin has œ
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago
It doesn't, but I hear Cantonese a lot where I live so I kinda grew fond of it (also [ø] for the same reason)
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi 16d ago
I’ll go with a 湖北 dialect since my family from there and it shares a lot of the Cantonese characteristics while maintaining Mandarin prononciations if that makes sense. I.e. 点心 is still Dian xin but with more Cantonese vowels.
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u/ElegantEggplant 21d ago
Russian?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago edited 21d ago
phonologically kinda close actually
also [ə] doesn't really exist as its own thing in Russian so no
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u/Pale-Noise-6450 21d ago
Portuguese?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago edited 21d ago
portugalcykablyat
also unfortunately I can't comprehend nasal vowels
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
also [ə] doesn't really exist as its own thing in Russian so no
Doesn't it? I've definitely seen it fairly often in phonetic transcriptions of Russian.
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u/Disastrous-Sell-584 17d ago
In a nutshell, it always appears in standart Russian when written a/o aren't stressed, but it never makes a difference for understanding, and there's no letter for it. I guess It works the same way in english tho
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u/NorthernDagger 21d ago
Danish?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago edited 21d ago
nah then I would have to like every vowel out of necessity
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
This is true, The Denmark is the only place where people can say [ɶ] without much effort. I think they also invented a way to say [ɒ] as well, Impressive.
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u/the_corn_is_coming ʔːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːː 21d ago
Cantonese?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago edited 21d ago
Close!
Although I think a Cantonese might prefer [ɒ] over [ɑ] since they don't have [ɑ] but they kinda do allow [ɒ]
also Cantonese has [œ] and [ø] which I don't use (but I do hear a lot)
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u/Limmunaizer 20d ago
I'm Russian and would say, that everything, except for the hate towards ɯ, is based
ы
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u/Living-Ready 20d ago
I love everything about Russian phonology
except ы
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u/Pale-Noise-6450 20d ago
It's practically an /i/ allophone after nonpalatalised (velarised) consonants. Only word where ы occurs without such environment is the name of the letter. You could say [ɪ] instead and litteraly none would spot difference.
I also didn't like ы but letter not phoneme. It should be Ъ + І, not Ь + І, that makes more sense and was original spelling.
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u/AjnoVerdulo 20d ago
Everyone would spot the difference. Ы is more of an [ɯɨ], so it's further back in the mouth than ɨ, and using [ɪ] is just getting further. Using [ɯ] instead is a better alternative but oh well, guess OP will never dare to use it, too bad
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u/Pale-Noise-6450 20d ago
Everyone would spot the difference.
If you loudly say, 'I PRONOUNCE Ы AS [ɪ],' yes all people nearby would spot. If you just use it in casual speaches nobody would know.
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u/AjnoVerdulo 20d ago
I have literally explained why everyone would know. You cannot just use English "sin" for Russian "сын" — I mean you can, you will make yourself understood, but natives will definitely clock you as a foreigner on that.
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u/Pale-Noise-6450 20d ago
That‘s because English /s/ is very different from Russian one, while American /l/ is very similar to Russian one. Search how they pronounce the words clique or click they're really say клык.
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u/AjnoVerdulo 19d ago
It's the opposite, actually. [l] vs. [ɫ] is a lot more audible than the difference between two /s/'s. But I listened to it anyway, and yes, I can easily hear the difference in how Wiktionary pronounces clique/click, it doesn't sound Russian at all and would stick out if pronounced that way in an otherwise clear Russian.
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u/Pale-Noise-6450 19d ago
[l] vs. [ɫ] is a lot more audible than the difference
American doesn't have [l]. Like Russians they always pronounce it velarised.
I can easily hear the difference
Do you listen American pronunciation or British? You have described British features.
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u/AjnoVerdulo 19d ago
I have listened to all the audios. Including the Midwestern American [klɪk] for clique, don't worry.
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u/Chrome_X_of_Hyrule Vedic is NOT Proto Indo-Aryan ‼️ 21d ago
Shanghainese?
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u/FourNinerXero [geɪ fɚ.ɹi] 21d ago
Calling [ɜ] a fraud is a grave insult to my idiolect
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago
Sorry but I literally can't tell [ɜ] and [ɘ] apart from [ə]
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
Well it's simple, [ɜ] is the STRUT vowel and sounds more or less identical to [ɐ], [ɘ] is an allophone of the KIT vowel and sounds more or less identical to [ɪ̈], And [ə] is a rare allophone of the lettER vowel and sounds more or less identical to [ɚ], These all sound pretty distinct from eachother though. Hope this helps!
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u/Living-Ready 18d ago
I say the vowel in strut as /ʌ/ and the vowel in kit as /ɪ/
I do see how these two could be allophonic since it's easier to move towards /ə/
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u/GignacPL Geminated close-mid back rounded vowel [oː] 🖤🖤🖤 21d ago
Your opinion on Os is terrible, please die 🥰🥰
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u/Samarium_11 21d ago edited 21d ago
British English?
Maybe you pronounce ʉ as y, but ɨ keeps tripping me up. Maybe you have a polish accent or smth like that?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago edited 21d ago
It's not English, but I do know a lot of these vowels because of English
mainly [æ], [ʌ], and partially [ɐ] (depending on whether you believe it exists in English or not)
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
[ɐ] is definitely common in English, not confident on [ʌ] though, Outside of weird places like Chicago.
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u/GignacPL Geminated close-mid back rounded vowel [oː] 🖤🖤🖤 20d ago
SSB's /ʉw/ is often realised as something like [ɨ͜ʉ̆] I think.
Btw, Polish /ɨ/ is actually more like [ɘ̝̈], generally way closer to the cardinal [ɘ].
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
Yeah, Idk if the same is true in reverse, But as an American I legit often can't tell the difference between the Polish ⟨y⟩ sound and my own KIT vowel, Which is often closer to [ɪ̠ ~ ɪ̈], And probably sometimes [ɘ] when unstressed.
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u/GignacPL Geminated close-mid back rounded vowel [oː] 🖤🖤🖤 18d ago
I've heard that the Polish /ɨ/ ranɡes from [ɘ] to [ı]. Sometimes it's hard to hear the difference for me too, but my own realisation of this phoneme in its stressed form is reasonably distinct from the SSB /ı/, or at least that's what I like to tell myself lol
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u/_ricky_wastaken If it’s a coronal and it’s voiced, it turns into /r/ 21d ago
ə: No! You're supposed to obey me!
The sixteen checkmark souls:
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u/heckitsjames /ˈbit.t͡ʃe/ 20d ago
b4 i start, pls don't use autism as an insult! i get that it's in vogue these days but pls don't use disabilities as an insult peace✌️❤️ anyways:
i love that you have beef with /o/ and /ɯ/, tbh i never see /o/ catching any strays and it's about damn time!!! he's gotta learn some humility!! /ə/ and /ɨ/ are two of my favorite vowels. i saw someone guess mandarin and you said that you hear a lot of cantonese where you live; so... i'm gonna guess you live in guangdong province; perhaps specifically in the pearl delta metropolis? idk what mandarin dialect that is tho 😶
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u/Living-Ready 18d ago
whoa fellow /o/ hater???
central vowel enjoyer?????
location is roughly correct??????
Okay you're my best friend now
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u/skyr0432 20d ago
ɞ is a very funny sound it's an o-sound and an u-sound at the same time 😂 uncancellable vowel
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u/kanzler_brandt 19d ago edited 19d ago
Thought I hated ɯ like everyone else until I went to the Wikipedia page and saw it listed as a phoneme in South African English, which still wouldn’t have swayed me if not for its unexpected incidence: ɯ as in [pʰɯ̞ɫ], that is, for the rest of us, pill.
I forgot just how amazing and unusual South African English was
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u/InteractionBasic5809 20d ago
why tf is ɶ just marked “autism” 😭
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u/Living-Ready 20d ago
Because it literally doesn't exist in any dialect of any language
and is the most autistic sounding vowel of all time2
u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
It occurs in Danish, and there's literally minimal pairs between it and [œ]. "Røv" means "Arse" when pronounced [ˈʁɶwˀ] but "Steal!" when pronounced [ˈʁœwˀ].
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago edited 18d ago
Võro? Only language I know of to have both [ɤ] and [ɨ].
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u/Japheth_Kaira /'e̞͡ːɪ̯ʁä/ 21d ago
Finnish?
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u/WindowFabulous2495 21d ago
Romanian probably? i heard that there are lots of diphtongues there+ the ɨ sound
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21d ago
[deleted]
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u/KnowledgeOld2661 21d ago
You just gave me the best of worst ideas
American English?
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u/Living-Ready 21d ago
No, it's not English
But I think my English does sound very American
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u/DefinitelyNotErate /'ə/ 18d ago
I don't believe you could sound very American without at least one of [ɜ] or [ʏ].
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u/Impressive-Ad7184 21d ago
why hate /ɯ/ 😔, its so fun to say words like yıldırımı