seem to ignore it for every single other player who’s a really good shooter and can move off the ball
No one is making that argument. The argument is actually that Curry does it better than anyone in the history of the league. The evidence is his teammates shooting efficiency spiking when he is on the court more than any player ever. Why? Because curry is the best cutter, screener and mover without the ball ever. If you don’t have a player attached to his hip he’ll get open and burn you from wherever.
The best example of Curry’s playmaking is Kevin Durant. KD scored as well as james harden did in the postseason in OKC. In OKC he scored 28.8 points a game on 57.5 ts%. KD in golden state? 29.6 points a game on 64.2 ts%. The Curry effect.
KD went from a team with one of the best playmaker to the team with the best playmaker. No really a mystery why he never saw a double team nor why he hasn’t won anything outside of the warriors.
Or even players like Shaq, Embiid etc dominant scoring big men who can draw two very easily
Seems like you have never watched the warriors or you just have a poor understanding of what is happening here. The fact that you’re including two players who are ball dominant is pretty embarrassing. No shit Shaq and Giannis draw the entire team when they’re in the paint. That’s when they have the ball. Curry doesn’t even need the ball which is the entire point.
You're not wrong, but I feel like that kind of diminishes the fact that that whole warriors team was completely bonkers. Klay is probably the second best shooter of the modern era, and while Draymond isn't a scoring threat on his own, he's still one of the better screeners in the game. By my count, all but 3 of the shots Steph made in this video came off Draymond picks. Steph is probably one of the biggest factors, but there are a lot of reasons KD was playing his most efficient ball in those years.
Durant went to the finals in 2012 scoring 28 on +12 rTS% before anybody knew who Steph Curry was
Oh ya, the same postseason where the thunder were better when KD sat, had a shit ton of turnovers (the KD special) on a diminished tertiary creation role? That run?
When you’re only good at one thing, like scoring, and bad at everything else related to helping your team win, you end up losing.
Gotta love the KD stans who have to frame everything surrounding KD via scoring. Can’t mention anything else. Wonder why…..
Durant played 41.9 minutes per game and started every game of that post season too (20 games)
An NBA basketball game is 48 minutes lol. That means your sample size is roughly 120 minutes
You really thought that low a sample is meaningful in any way? Players can go 40 plus games being negatives just based on hot shooting while they’re on the bench. Check Lebron this year, or plenty of other players who can post outlier plus minus stats (eg Lebron a negative in the NBA finals)
Your sample was less than 3 fucking games LMAO
On a diminished tertiary creation role
The same Durant who lead a 57 win pace as the primary playmaker without Westbrook for half the year in 2014, carrying lineups of Jackson/Sefolosha/Ibaka/Perkins in a brutal Western Conference? And beat peak Lebron to MVP?
57 wins is more than any Jokic led team has ever gotten. So much for playmaking, when scoring go brr.
Durant is a player who’s aided by playmaking, especially now he’s less mobile, but at his peak he never needed it.
Yes being one of the greatest scorers ever and a solid plus on defense has always made you a great player in any era of NBA basketball. That essentially makes Durant a 7 foot version of Kobe Bryant.
BB reference. Most all time greats, especially those integral to their teams offense, see their team pretty much crater when they’re not on the court. Harden and Russ destroy KD in on/off impact that entire run. Wonder why that is? It’s because they can create for the teammates. KD still hasn’t shown he can do that.
An NBA basketball game is 48 minutes lol. That means your sample size is roughly 120 minutes
What’s your point here? KD logging a shit ton of minutes doesn’t mean much when the offense isn’t at the very least worse without him.
You really thought that low a sample is meaningful in any way? Players can go 40 plus games being negatives just based on hot shooting while they’re on the bench.
When you’re talking about the top 20 players of all time, we see a trend over a decade of their impact especially in the postseason. KD gets dwarfed obviously by curry and LeBron. But even players like CP3/harden/Russ/kawhi etc have him beat out.
I guess a decade isn’t enough sample size
2012 the thunder are better with KD on the bench
2013-2016 we see a drop off but those years KD got outplayed by his mvp teammate in Westbrook and this is evidenced by how well the team’s WOWY. I guess 13/14/16 are too small a sample again.
Check Lebron this year, or plenty of other players who can post outlier plus minus stats
Ya I mean LeBron is 40. When we go to a holistic metric that doesn’t include the box score, KD again gets dwarfed by his contemporaries. He’s simply not that impactful because he is a poor poor playmaker.
The same Durant who lead a 57 win pace as the primary playmaker without Westbrook for half the year in 2014, carrying lineups of Jackson/Sefolosha/Ibaka/Perkins in a brutal Western Conference?
KD stans love to bring up 2014 as some crowning achievement for him but always fail to look at the postseason. KD actually did great in the regular season but the 2014 post season perfectly encapsulates him as a player performer when he’s not on a 73 win team. 2016 he played awful but 2014 is his playoff choking peak.
Almost losing first round to a seventh seed after winning MVP? Check
Averaging a shit ton of turnovers and not reliably be able to handle extra defensive coverage? Check
Scoring efficiency cratering to 57% from 63.5%? Check
Getting handily outplayed by his teammate in Westbrook? Check.
57 wins is more than any Jokic led team has ever gotten. So much for playmaking, when scoring go brr.
His scoring helped them so much in 2014 after a 57 win season that they didn’t even make the finals. If KD actually was the best player on the 2014 and 2016 teams they would have made the finals. But he was turning the ball over a fuck ton instead.
Imaging comparing Jokic to a guy who got outplayed by Westbrook in b2b postseasons lol
Durant is a player who’s aided by playmaking, especially now he’s less mobile, but at his peak he never needed it.
Ya he never needed it which is why he has won so much outside of the team that deliberately masked his ball handling and playmaking “skills”.
(Don’t look at 2022 when KD lost his hof playmaker in harden against the Celtics)
Kerr was a genius making sure he had as much responsibility as klay thompson in that regard. Wonder why he hasn’t won anything since? Because the dude becomes a turnover machine anytime he has any role on his teams offense more than just scoring.
Hell we can just look at any series where curry was hurt and watch KD become a walking turnover. The 2019 clippers series comes to mind. Against a bottom ten defense KD had a game with literally more turnovers than shot attempts. You could see Kerr about to have a stroke any time KD brought the ball up.
But I’m sure this is all just a coincidence to you
Yes being one of the greatest scorers ever and a solid plus on defense has always made you a great player in any era of NBA basketball. That essentially makes Durant a 7 foot version of Kobe Bryant
One of the greatest scorers ever who couldn’t leverage that scoring and translate it to winning until he was on a 73 win team where he saw single coverage the entire time he was there. Hope you’re saying harden is one of the greatest scorers ever as well (same scoring as KD with much more offensive responsibilities to boot). But I have a feeling you think KD is much better than harden when they have the same resume outside of winning on a 73 win team.
Bryant at least elevated his teammates by above average playmaking. KD was too busy throwing the ball outta bounds or to his opponents instead.
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u/FamiliarBullfrog1043 2d ago
No one is making that argument. The argument is actually that Curry does it better than anyone in the history of the league. The evidence is his teammates shooting efficiency spiking when he is on the court more than any player ever. Why? Because curry is the best cutter, screener and mover without the ball ever. If you don’t have a player attached to his hip he’ll get open and burn you from wherever.
The best example of Curry’s playmaking is Kevin Durant. KD scored as well as james harden did in the postseason in OKC. In OKC he scored 28.8 points a game on 57.5 ts%. KD in golden state? 29.6 points a game on 64.2 ts%. The Curry effect.
KD went from a team with one of the best playmaker to the team with the best playmaker. No really a mystery why he never saw a double team nor why he hasn’t won anything outside of the warriors.
Seems like you have never watched the warriors or you just have a poor understanding of what is happening here. The fact that you’re including two players who are ball dominant is pretty embarrassing. No shit Shaq and Giannis draw the entire team when they’re in the paint. That’s when they have the ball. Curry doesn’t even need the ball which is the entire point.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-case-for-stephen-curry-mvp/