r/news • u/DuvalEaton • Oct 15 '14

Title Not From Article Another healthcare worker tests positive for Ebola in Dallas

http://www.wfla.com/story/26789184/second-texas-health-care-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola
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206

u/a404notfound Oct 15 '14

A major problem is those that get sick and just think they have the flu and stay at home, visit family, go to work. Those are the carriers your worry about, not a healthcare worker.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

Right? That nurse did the right thing. Self report, immediate compliance with the CDC.

The conspiracy types are all freaked out about that, because they're like, "they're going to announce it's airborne and then lock us all in camps!" Well, yes and no. It most certainly isn't airborne...but if you contract it, yes, you're going to be quarantined. For everyone else's safety. Which sucks, to not really have a choice in how or if to proceed after a certain point.

That's ebola. It sucks. But this is that time where it's extra important to just listen to the alphabet agencies and do what you're told. Because you (not specifically you, OP) most certainly do not know best in this circumstance.

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u/ava_ati Oct 15 '14

The conspiracy types are all freaked out about that, because they're like, "they're going to announce it's airborne and then lock us all in camps!"

what? If you want to go conspiracy come up with something better than that. Patient zero was a plant by the Obama camp to flush out states, like Texas, who refused federal aid for Obama Care...

Or it was a plant by the republicans, to cause controversy right before November elections. The democrat led version of Katrina.

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u/ursaleeminor Oct 15 '14

This is an rna virus, it mutates every time it is transmitted. It could most certainly become airborne. The more people that have it, the more likely that scenario is likely to happen. Also, air travel is what concerns me. Which is exactly how this got here. Tell me how we can prevent ebola from crossing into the United States when we have incoming flights and some of the busiest airports in the world. I am interested to hear a solid answer.

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u/slapded Oct 15 '14

of course its airborne.. it just fucking flew to texas

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

It's isn't airborne... Yet. The more people that catch it, the more likely it goes airborne because it mutates so much. An over-abundance of caution here isn't exactly unreasonable, especially considering how poorly the government and hospitals seem to be handling it. That doesn't mean freak out yet, but it means the government should probably be doing more. This isn't a case where you try to do the least amount possible to stop it. We need to stop it at whatever cost, and the earlier we do so the cheaper it will ultimately be.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

Exactly. I think a big part of what is happening, especially in TX, is that the CDC was like, "be prepared!" And the hospitals were like, "Don't worry! WE GOT THIS." But then they didn't, because most hospital staff aren't prepared to deal with infectious diseases on this level.

It seems to me like the CDC is stepping in and taking a more active role in managing their activities, which is exactly the correct thing to do.

we need to stop it at whatever cost

This is what people in Africa aren't seeming to get. Although I get it, it's not like the white man has been an overwhelmingly positive influence on that continent. But really, I'm sorry your beliefs want you to love all over your dead relative's body...but you don't get to. Or you can, but then you have to be quarantined too. You can't do a whole lot when you tell people these things, and they don't/won't believe you.

Fortunately that level of ignorance isn't as prevalent here.

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u/PostNationalism Oct 15 '14

it definitely IS airborne, same as the Flu is airborne

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u/TrainOfThought6 Oct 15 '14

It's only airborne in the sense that it can survive for a bit in the little fluid droplets from a cough or sneeze. Still worrisome, but that's not full-blown airborne.

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u/Norwegian__Blue Oct 15 '14

It's scarier that it can live for hours on surfaces.

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u/Kursed_Valeth Oct 15 '14

Which is clinically referred to as "droplet."

There are three modes of transmission - contact, droplet, and airborne.

Contact is transmitted through direct contact with surfaces or fluids. (C. Diff)

Droplet is through a cough or a sneeze - general rule is 6 feet from the patient and blocked by masks. (Flu)

Airborne can be up to 20 feet around the patient and can penetrate all but certain types/styles of masks. (Tuberculosis)

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u/moms_spaghetti-os Oct 15 '14

not full-blown airborne

That's actually not airborne at all. It's fluid-borne...

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u/buttcupcakes Oct 15 '14 edited Oct 15 '14

It's sorta airborne, for a short time at least. Up to an hour in the air. EDIT: http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola ebola transmission isn't an open and shut case, people. it's complicated

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u/Kursed_Valeth Oct 15 '14

The flu is not airborne, it is transmitted by droplet - HUGE difference. I understand it can be confusing because droplets can travel through the air a few feet, but airborne is a whole order of magnitude more transmittable.

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u/TrollHouseCookie Oct 15 '14

Can you provide any sort of evidence?

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

I don't think he/she can. Everything I have read says it's not airborne.

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u/ChrisBrownsKnuckles Oct 15 '14

It is in the sense that water droplets and shit from coughs linger in the air for a bit and can be breathed in and what not to get you sick. It isn't technically airborn but some people claim it is for that reason.

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u/Cataclysm Oct 15 '14

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/14/CIDRAP-Confirms-Ebola-Transmittable-by-Air

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

If it's from Breitbart, there's a 98% chance that it's completely made up bullshit. And the other 2% chance is that it's a distortion of cherry-picked facts to make a political point.

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u/Cataclysm Oct 15 '14

Yeah, and it directly links to a university of Minnesota article. Regardless of whether or not you like the source, it doesn't change the fact that we should be very concerned that we don't know enough about the transmission of the virus.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

I'm willing to bet you any amount of money that the article they link to doesn't use any of the sensationalized language they use.

And yes, we do know how it's transmitted, that's not the issue. There's no mystery there.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

this announcement was from the center for infectious disease research and policy.. why down votes??

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u/ialsohaveadobro Oct 15 '14 edited Oct 15 '14

The article to which Breitbart links was a guest "Commentary" piece from two scientists who are not actually part of CIDRAP, which says, essentially, that based on a review of the literature and in light of general theory of aerosol transmissions, certain modes of aerosol transmission (droplets) should not be ruled out and that, therefore, protective gear suitable against aerosol transmission should be used where possible.

The potential for transmission via inhalation of aerosols, therefore, cannot be ruled out by the observed risk factors or our knowledge of the infection process.

Breitbart screams "CIDRAP confirms Ebola is transmissible by air!!" Which is sensationalist horseshit. But what else do you expect from them?

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u/Cataclysm Oct 15 '14

Hah, i don't know. All that was asked for was any sort of evidence. Best I had on short notice. People are really funny on this topic I've noticed.

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u/ExplainLikeImSmart Oct 15 '14

Yeah, flu season is looking especially terrifying this year...

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u/Norwegian__Blue Oct 15 '14

That's what scares me, there's no way to tell which one it is

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u/krispykremedonuts Oct 15 '14

Like the other people in the waiting room. You know, the person who sat in the chairs and used the pens and clip boards right after he did.

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u/Megneous Oct 15 '14

Personally, I don't know about you guys, but if I had a nurse at my hospital who knew they were caring for an ebola patient, got sick, and instead of following protocol, just assumed it was the flu and stayed home, infecting their family... I would fire that nurse for incompetence, assuming they survived the ebola. That's an unacceptable course of action for a nurse who knew they were treating an ebola patient.

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u/nreshackleford Oct 15 '14

I thought she self reported as soon as she was symptomatic. Ebola has a really wide incubation period, I'm assuming the people treating the Ebola patients are aware of that. Of course, if the nurse did just assume she had the flu-then she's a fool. They required her to get vaccinated for that shit, and oh yeah...had ebola patient.

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u/mechesh Oct 15 '14

just assumed it was the flu and stayed home

Has somebody done this?

"the worker reported a fever Tuesday and was immediately isolated at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas."

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

[deleted]

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u/mechesh Oct 15 '14

but, why bring a hypothetical situation up instead of discussing the actual issue. The way you phrased it suggested the nurse was trying to hide it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

[deleted]

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u/mechesh Oct 15 '14

Because it is fear mongering and bringing a hypothetical aspect (without saying "hypothetically") into a conversation where people are already making wild speculation. Your comment implied the nurse infected with Ebola willfully ignored symptoms and endangers others when she did nothing of the sort.

IMHO, you comment is no better than Fox News this morning having a commentator say "Ebola could be airborne/aerosol."

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

[deleted]

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u/Megneous Oct 15 '14

Seriously. I feel like I'm the only person who expected US hospitals to botch patient care and infect their own workers. Yeah, the US has advanced medical care, but it's for-profit. Workers are overworked, underpaid, and undertrained. I'm not surprised at all that they're incompetent or make silly mistakes that end up endangering their and others' lives.

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u/rockyali Oct 15 '14

My bitch is not about the for profit piece, as none of the major hospitals in my area are for profit. Mine is that administration will spend almost any sum on buildings and equipment, and then nickel and dime and short staff the employees.

Spend 500 grand on a RFID system for newborns to lower the 1 in 3000 odds (per hospital) that a baby will be kidnapped this year? No problem. 500K is a small price to pay to save one baby every 3000 years. Spend 65K on an extra nurse to lower the 26 to 1 odds that someone will die of a medical mistake due to short-staffing? You have got to be kidding--we aren't made of money. Those 26 people who are going to die are just going to have to die. Their time has come.

It just isn't rational.

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u/DamnTheseGlasses Oct 15 '14 edited Oct 15 '14

And then admin comes down on you for firing "capable" staff during a crisis, moreover when everyone is calling in sick due to pandemic scares and anyone willing to work is already pulling double overtime. HR will have to spend a fortune to replace and train the individual as well.

In these times of ubiquitous cutbacks, unrealistic goal-setting and income tied to cost-saving performance, incompetence and turning a blind eye to pending disaster are the results. Short term profitability seems to matter more than common sense.

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u/SmarterChildv2 Oct 15 '14

And then admin comes down on you for firing "capable" staff during a crisis, moreover when everyone is calling in sick due to pandemic scares and anyone willing to work is already pulling double overtime. HR will have to spend a fortune to replace and train the individual as well.

Its like you don't know anything about healthcare.

  1. Shes not working double overtime, they make sure nurses aren't getting too much overtime.

  2. How is she capable if she has ebola?

  3. HR isn't spending a fortune to replace them, she is a nurse, not a rocket scientist.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14 edited Oct 15 '14

Its like you don't know anything about healthcare.

As someone who does know:

Yup. That describes a lot of people in this thread.

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u/SmarterChildv2 Oct 15 '14

Not to brag (if you can brag about knowing a lot about healthcare lol) but I do as well.

I also have a lot of first hand experience in hospital HIM departments and billing, in addition to clinical settings.

People just start spouting things that sound good but aren't remotely true.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

People just start spouting things that sound good but aren't remotely true.

Or, in this case, that sound dire and fear-inducing. Kinda weird vibe here sometimes...

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u/SmarterChildv2 Oct 15 '14

Short term profitability seems to matter more than common sense.

Like this shit. Yeah, hospitals have to make money, but if you have ever worked in a hospital every single thing always comes down to "how is this impacting patient care?"

Its always about the patient.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '14

To be fair, I have met some top-level execs who are like that, but every single person I've met who actually is responsible for patient care at any level is focused on... well, patients.

The people I know who are interested in medicine just because of the money generally washed out of med school, etc. And they sure as shit don't go into nursing. There's easier money out there.

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u/son_of_iron_horse Oct 15 '14

death will take care of her and the family

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u/isubird33 Oct 15 '14

I can understand going to work if you think you have the flu...because money. But visiting family? Who the hell is visiting family if you think you have the flu?

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u/tsr6 Oct 15 '14

A major problem is those that get sick and just think they have the flu and stay at home, visit family, go to work.

I don't have any "sick days," hell if I'm going to burn a vacation day...

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u/TheDukeofReddit Oct 15 '14

I disagree. You act like healthcare workers have some secret knowledge the general population doesn't. Its basically wash your hands, don't touch your face, sanitize things. They actually have almost no experience dealing with infectious and deadly diseases. Things like the flu, pneumonia, and others are infectious but not particularly deadly.

Most hospitals are set up as one-stop healthcare-shops. They'll treat broken bones, they'll treat cancer, they'll do stitches, an emergency room will see all sorts of weird things. But never anything like ebola. That sort of thing just does not happen in the U.S.

Doctors and nurses do not even follow basic procedures like not touching their face nor washing their hands thoroughly and frequently as much as policy says they should. You might think they're trained to deal with these things. And they are. But they may have 20 years of experience of these things not being a big deal.

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u/SlightSarcasm Oct 15 '14

I had heard that you were so debilitated by the time you were contagious that you wouldn't leave the house

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u/a404notfound Oct 15 '14

incorrect it first manifests as a mild fever with or without respiratory distress, just like the flu.