r/newyorkcity • u/sour_creme Seattle • Apr 13 '21

Asian man body slammed by ranting man in broad daylight attack in NYC

https://abc7ny.com/asian-hate-crime-attack-on-man-upper-east-side/10510936/
374 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

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17

u/md702 Apr 13 '21

I don't see this as a asian hate crime problem but a huge giant mental health crisis. When is the city going to stop releasing people with mental illness back into the street. Bring back the insane asylum. It's only a matter of time before this dude pushes someone into the train track.

130

u/meekshall Apr 13 '21

Why are all the mentally ill people attacking Asians? This is like the 20th mentally ill person attacking an Asian I've seen on this sub this month. I don't doubt mental health is a big problem in the city but I also think it's more complicated than that since the pandemic and how our whole political climate has ratcheted up in fear/mistrust and racial tensions over the last few years.

33

u/md702 Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

The mentally ill has been attacking asians long before the media coverage, but most asians before just didn't report it, much like in this video the guy actually said he was fine and he didn't need the police.

Why are the mentally ill attacking asians? I think that's a complicated and uncomfortable topic. I think hollywood has a lot of blame, they are always portraying asians as the butt of the joke, as the weaker race, etc which gets internalized and makes weak-minded people want to pick on people they perceived weaker than them.

I think if there were stronger asian influences in the public eye, both male and female, that would go a long way to fixing things.

Edit: examples of crap like this that leads people to think it's okay to shit on asians.

10

u/Ganache-Cautious Apr 13 '21

Asians simply don’t report hate crimes so it’s led to a lot of ppl thinking that they don’t experience racism. As a group Asians simply aren’t vocal about discrimination.

9

u/checker280 Apr 13 '21

Asians have always been portrayed as “the model minority” - how can there be institutional racism when these Chinese are successful, have “tiger moms” that care about their education, respect the complete two parent family, and get good grades?

It pits the Asian community against the other POC by setting us up as the standard that the rest is failing to live up to.

7

u/NashvilleHot Apr 13 '21

That’s part of the problem— this simultaneous perception that all Asians are successful so why can’t other POC do it too, and Asians are weak, inferior, foreign, and either emasculated or over-fetishized. Two reasons why Asians may be targeted.

5

u/ReeducationBot Apr 13 '21

So the standard is to literally be a functional member of society?

The success of Asian immigrants in western countries counters the socialist narrative that hard work doesn't get you anywhere. It's not about "setting up the asian community against other POC". The "other POC" tend to advertise defeatist attitudes, that they'll never make it anywhere in life simply because of their current circumstance.

Systematic racism exists, but hardwork will open up the opportunities to get around it.

The stable two parent system that raises a child who values hard work is highly beneficial to society as a whole.

2

u/checker280 Apr 13 '21

https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2016/04/12/the-woes-of-the-model-minority-the-dual-existence-of-asian-americans-in-the-united-states/

1

u/ReeducationBot May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21

The concept of "Model Minority" isn't new to me, but it never fails to make my eyes roll to the back of my head when I see it being brought up.

Culture is a big reason why there is a concept of "model minority". And the black community does everything it can to not address the toxicity that exists within its culture. Asians tend to lack a lot of the toxic features within the black community and as such they prosper like most other immigrants before them.

Relevant: https://i.imgur.com/EQ6815p.jpeg

Would you have considered the Jews to be a model minority? Or how about the Germans? The Poles? The Ukrainians? Filipinos? Cubans?

1

u/checker280 May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21

The Asians aren’t calling themselves the model minority. It’s the others who are doing it so they can ignore any arguments. It’s whataboutism at its finest?

Black community complaining about policing? “I don’t see the Asians having these problems” whether that’s true or not.

The biggest difference between the Asian community and the Black community is Banking. There are always Asian banks and Asian Immigrant Community Services that simply don’t have an equivalent in the Black Communities (although that’s changing). It’s a lot easier for Asian start ups to find funding and support.

In fact there are a lot of Jewish community banks and services, Russian community banks and services, etc. The Black communities simply don’t have that support from black countries and since every attempt to develop black banks were wiped out (Tulsa 1921).

But that’s an example of the systemic racism and another argument altogether.

Blacks killing blacks is not relevant because those criminals are caught and punished by the law. Cops killing civilians whether black, white, or any other community is bad and is not comparable to civilians killing civilians.

1

u/ReeducationBot May 02 '21

"The biggest difference between the Asian community and the Black community is Banking"

You're telling me a black guy can't get a loan that they would otherwise qualify for if they were not black? If this was at all true, that signals a market opportunity for black community to form a cooperative banking institution that targets these kinds of individuals...

In the USA there are a bunch of black owned banks: https://www.finder.com/black-owned-banks

That's the best part about capitalism. If there's a market, and money to be made...people will create a solution. Nothing is stopping black people from forming a cooperative bank if they so desired. Literally nothing.

"Blacks killing blacks is not relevant because those criminals are caught and punished by the law"

This is very relevant, because this number is too high. This is apart of the toxic culture I am describing which glorifies toxic masculinity, gangsterism, crime, violence, rape, misogyny, child abandonment, etc. The black individuals that actually confront these toxic cultures tend to do very well in society.

You're making excuses and deflecting from the toxic elements of black culture. I bet your last/final deflection will just involve calling me a racist (which in reality I wanna see black people prosper and be dignified). White people are able to address the toxicity in their cultures, but for some reason this responsibility never falls to the black community, and as a result their cultural evolution is stunted. Liberals I am seeing more every day...are turning out to be the most anti-black group there is. No different an adult who refuses to discipline a misbehaving child. Constantly ignoring the glaring issues like the extreme misogyny... "oh my kid just has a learning difficulty, and you're just a bigot for not recognizing that kids learn at different rates!".

Read some of the lyrics produced from the most popular black artists. It's pure trash almost 9/10 times. Trash in, Trash out. What do you expect? It's complete reversal in cultural evolution from the 80s/90s. "Express Yourself" (NWA), "Juicy" (Biggy), "Keep Ur Head Up"(2pac), had some really good lyrics that advanced the genre and black culture as a whole. Now look at some of the modern shit that is popular these days.... you got "WAP"`..."Rockstar"(Dababy)..."Go Crazy" (chris brown). Just to name a few from 2020.

1

u/checker280 May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21

I’m saying a new immigrant fresh off the boat has a better chance at getting funding for a home or a business than someone who grew up here.

There are black communities starting black owned banks because there has been a lack of such institutions despite blacks being a part of the US since the early days. It’s curious how “the market” never bothered to fill that void isn’t it.

https://inthesetimes.com/article/cooperative-banking-for-black-lives

https://bankgreenwood.com/about/

https://defendernetwork.com/news/shaquille-oneal-unveils-coalition-to-back-black-business-program/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/michael-jordan-launching-grant-program-to-assist-black-communities.html

And if you don’t think there’s toxic culture in the Asian communities, you haven’t been paying attention. And they primarily preyed on their own.

https://patch.com/new-york/parkslope/feds-take-down-asian-gang-cast-shadow-violence-over-brooklyn-queens

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4w5yej/chinese-american-gangs-tong-wars-new-york-chinatown-money-murder

I get it. Today’s music is not your thing. It ain’t mine either. See? We have something in common. Thanks for the conversation

Edit/added Ice-T’s Body Count was famous for Body Count and Cop Killer and now he’s a regular on Law and Order and commercials. Go figure.

-10

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

Yes it's Hollywoods fault. Nailed it.

6

u/md702 Apr 13 '21

They certainly don't help.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

I grew up watching Jackie Chan, jet li, Bruce Lee, Donny yen, chow Yun fat etc..

I always thought Asian people were pretty badass.

10

u/md702 Apr 13 '21

You basically nailed the ALL the hollywood roles available to asian men, type casted to just kung fu type roles once every 5 years. Outside of crazy rich asians there wasn't very many any americanized roles casted to asian americans.

Again I don't know the effects of hollywood portrayal, but I theorize that when asians are typically cast as the lesser group than it gets internalized by racist and it may cause them to target them more often.

You don't have to agree, it's merely speculation.

2

u/ReeducationBot Apr 13 '21

"You basically nailed the ALL the hollywood roles available to asian men"

In the 80s when white people were over 90% of the population. In the 2020s there's tons of americanized rolls for Asians.

35

u/clarko21 Apr 13 '21

Note that you said ‘on this sub’. That’s the equivalent of saying all my friends support political candidate X so how can they lose... Not dismissing that theirs an uptick but it’s still a tiny fraction of crimes of this nature but every incident is getting posted, often from sources that would have been completely dismissed prior to this. The New York subs have become like Fox News posting every incident of violence in a city of 8 million people and now everyone is seemingly afraid to leave their apartments when it’s still exceptionally unlikely that you will be attacked, Asian or not. Also for what it’s worth lots of women have also posted that they’re getting harassed more, and people are posting about being harassed in the subway which certainly wouldn’t have been noteworthy until recently. Last time I got the subway prepandemic some lady was screaming that everyone on the train was a white devil while trying to light a piece of wood on fire. Everyone just shrugged it off as ‘it’s New York’

32

u/meekshall Apr 13 '21

It's definitely not exclusive to this sub. I've been kind of tracking the violence since I noticed a severe uptick. I've been averaging around 3 new attacks on Asians in the NYC metro area every day. Nation wide we are well over 1,000 attacks on Asians so far in 2021. I also recognize that overall violent crimes have gone up but the data also shows that the portion of racially motivated hate crimes targeting Asians has seen a large increase since 2019.

-1

u/clarko21 Apr 13 '21

How do you mean you’ve been tracking it? With reports in the news? Because if so that’s still prone to selection bias. When people have posted actual stats on hate crimes against Asians they’re still very rare, although they have definitely increased. Actually I think last time someone posted a comprehensive over view of the stats they’d actually decreased this year versus last year but we rarely heard much about it last year. They also still pale in comparison to anti-Semitic attacks which literally never get reported and if anything seem to be met with victim blaming on the odd occasion that they’re mentioned on New York subs

1

u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

YTD there have been 4912 felony assault and 9530 misd assault complaints. That doesn't include harassment incidents (which pretty sure for NYPD is anything less than someone being punched). That is through 4/4/21, so basically can times by four, which gets you to ~49,000 assaults per year.

Asians represent ~12% of NYC population, so if had even distribution you would expect ~16 felony or misdemeanor assaults on NYC asian americans per day.

I don't doubt there is an uptick in anti-asian hate crimes occurring, but it is also likely that many incidents are the type of attacks that happen in any large city like NYC regularly, except now getting more media attention.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

6

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21 edited May 12 '21

[deleted]

2

u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21

hate crime is a sentence modifier, not a separate charge. For example, if deemed a hate crime (motivation/targeting can be shown to be bias-motivated), what would otherwise be a class D felony assault would be bumped up to a Class C felony (and so on). It would still be a felony assault complaint.

so-called "stranger violence", where there is no known relationship between offender and victim, accounted for 50% of violent crimes in the US in 2019. pdf source -- see table 18 on pg20

3

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21 edited May 12 '21

[deleted]

1

u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

Take the whole knock-out game thing from a few years back. There were a few notable attacks that got the media's attention, then the outrage around it meant even similar incident like that got reported. Was pitched as an epidemic flaring up in cities around the country. Thing is, there was nothing other than increased media coverage that points to it actually was happening any more often than normal.

Again, I don't doubt there is a meaningful increase in anti-asian hate crimes. But I think people underestimate how common random attacks like some of these getting coverage actually are, and that many of these attacks would happen to someone regardless. It is becoming another 'black mob' violence story, like the knock-out game was or notorious rhetoric like "wilding" in the central park jogger case.

And we're probably now entering the stage where some will say this comment is whitewashing crimes of black people by overly woke liberals. Just like what happened with the knock-out game storyline.

Take OP's article.

As of Monday, there have been 54 verified cases so far this year, compared to just 12 in all of last year.

Do you really think there were only 12 incidences of asian americans being randomly attacked in NYC last year? There were hundreds, they just weren't tracked let alone covered. Had someone called NYPD, they'd show up and say nothing can be done and not even register the complaint. I came across a cyclist last week who got thrown to the ground with a choke by a driver b/c the cyclist told him to move his car out the bike lane. Despite the driver sticking around and witness saying what happened, the NYPD did nothing. This story wouldn't have been pursued by the NYPD, let alone the media, but for the attention its getting.

2

u/bobsp Apr 13 '21

You're ignoring the fact that most violent crime is not among strangers. So you should try to correct for that.

1

u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21

Per my other comment in thread, 50% of violent crime is. Certainly skew for robberies, but can't find information specific to assaults.

-5

u/LandooooXTrvls Apr 13 '21

You’re literally letting the media control your perspective. Are attacks happening more frequently or is the media just reporting it more frequently

3

u/Bebebaubles Apr 13 '21

Also remember Asians are much less likely to report issues. Many are targeting the Asian elderly and many can’t speak English. How many have just walked away frightened and quiet?

1

u/desolat0r Apr 14 '21

Those people are not mentally ill, they're just bullies and we all know that bullies always go for people who are the easiest targets.

13

u/tearsana Apr 13 '21

somehow this dude is mentally ill but capable enough to select asian as his target. too many criminals have been excused by mentally ill now.

12

u/Waterwoo Apr 13 '21

Agreed on the insane asylums. Mental health or not, if you're a danger to other people, that overrides your rights to freedom. Sorry.

-2

u/ballsmodels Apr 13 '21

For example, people who refuse to get vaccinated are a serious danger!

2

u/Waterwoo Apr 13 '21

Yeah... I'm all for vaccinating but I think most people see the difference between theoretically having a higher risk of infecting someone and going around punching and body slamming people. So not really sure what your point is?

People that speed while driving are more likely to hurt someone, but we take a pretty different approach to speeders vs people that intentionally drive on to a sidewalk and plow through a crowd, ya know?

-1

u/ballsmodels Apr 13 '21

...but what if they are racist

2

u/Waterwoo Apr 13 '21

Don't be dense.

58

u/rqny Apr 13 '21

It’s too easy to blame all of these on mental health. And it needs to stop. A lot of these people are racist assholes who know what they’re doing and intend to do it.

12

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/A97CU4ca Apr 13 '21

Exactamundo-- most rapists and murderers tend to be mentally ill. Why on earth are we handing free passes to anyone?

10

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

Because many of the assailants are black, and that's uncomfortable for a lot of people.

4

u/Frankly_Mr-Shankly Apr 14 '21

Ding Ding Ding

1

u/rqny Apr 14 '21

Yes exactly. I’m not seeing these people aren’t mentally ill. They probably are. However I think a lot of people are conveniently misconstrue what mental illness actually would mean in the context of a legal defense. It’s basically an excuse now for anyone acting like a deviant asshole. But you can be a deviant asshole and know exactly what you’re doing. The definition of mental health is to do with not actually knowing the actions you were taking or the consequences of them. These people are actually acting with intent.

20

u/fredmerz Apr 13 '21

Not sure why it’s being presented as a binary. These people appear to be both.

2

u/mamalulu434 Apr 13 '21

In this instance maybe. In most there is literally no way to tell. It's just adisn people being attacked.

It's portrayed as a binary because there is no way to tell if they aren't separate.

Only the assumption that they're mentally ill so we can feel better about the large amount of POC's attacking asians.

18

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

They both need to be locked up. Follow up question; How do we distinguish violent racists who should be locked up in an asylum from violent racists who should be locked up in jail?

1

u/rqny Apr 13 '21

Agree.

-1

u/trapsinplace Apr 13 '21

White people do it it's racism and white power.

Fellow minority does it and it's mental illness.

It really is that simple according to this sub...

/s in case anyone needed that.

2

u/J4rrod_ Apr 13 '21

Lol facts. This sub's mental gymnastics are hilarious.

11

u/coolaznkenny Manhattan Apr 13 '21

Yes, the person isnt randomly attacking people. He purposely follow the victim and attacked him and ran away. So it showed intent and awareness of what he is doing is wrong and planned. This is a hate crime.

10

u/PhD_sock Apr 13 '21

So, your take is that all the various people in NYC with mental illness or troubles just happen to be repeatedly targeting Asian peoples?

Interesting. And bullshit.

10

u/Thomastheslav Apr 13 '21

Or ya know it’s just long running animosity between black and Asian communities stretching back generations.

But please don’t let reality get in the way of your soft left wing racism

8

u/Tantalus4200 Apr 13 '21

Sure are alot of "mentally ill" black dudes attacking asians lately

8

u/TrumpIsMyGodAndDad Apr 13 '21

Ohhhh so when a person of the wrong skin color commits a hate crime against Asians, it’s a mental health crisis.

When a whole person does it, they are upholding decades of white supremacy and institutional racism.

I lost brain cells trying to follow this fallacious BS. How do you people believe this shit unironically??

-3

u/checker280 Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

Ever hear of the “model minority”? The phrase was coined all the way back in the 60s. It’s when the system claims “there is no racism” and then points to “the model minority”.

They dismiss the poor by pointing to the hard working Asians with their restaurants, laundromats, and retail shops. They dismiss the lack of good education and then point out all the immigrants who are good at STEM studying medicine and engineering. They dismiss the single parent households and point out how the Asian communities respect the family unit.

Rather than it being a genuine compliment to the Asian immigrants, its pits the POC against each other while ignoring all the complaints.

I can remember as early as elementary school where the teachers talked down to the kid who didn’t do his homework or failed a test by pointing out that I passed and completed my assignments. Rather than propping me up, it set me up as a target as the “teacher’s pet” while the teacher would later scold me about not living up to my full potential. And all it does is cause the Asian families to look down on the others because that’s what the system keeps telling us too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/04/19/524571669/model-minority-myth-again-used-as-a-racial-wedge-between-asians-and-blacks

https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2016/04/12/the-woes-of-the-model-minority-the-dual-existence-of-asian-americans-in-the-united-states/

5

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '21 edited May 10 '21

[deleted]

1

u/checker280 Apr 14 '21 edited Apr 14 '21

“...it provides a MODEL of behaviors that lead to success despite any perception of disadvantage due to being in a minority.”

Again, why are you comparing one group to the next or one individual to the next? People don’t like being singled out like that and grow to resent it. Got siblings? How would you feel if you constantly heard your parents ask “why can’t you make good decisions like your sibling?”

“The Idea that we are supposed to compare racial groups success ignoring all behavioral factors and accept it's due to racism needs to die.”

Where did you get this idea that you have to compare groups at all?

Maybe that’s part of the problem. Why not just judge people based on their own singular circumstance, actions, and abilities?

We are not a global force.

I was born in the US. I can trace my family history in the US to Montana in the late 1800s. I am a NYer. I grew up in Brooklyn before it was something to brag about.

Why do you feel the need to exclude me as someone who isn’t from here and make any assumptions at all?

1

u/Captain_Boobz Apr 14 '21 edited Apr 14 '21

White people can't move out of shitty neighborhoods because it's white flight. White people can't move into shitty neighborhoods because it's gentrification.

Minority group is successful, it's a racist system. Minority group isn't successful, it's a racist system.

White person goes on a murder spree and most of his victims are minorities, it means he was a racist and proves white supremacy is a problem. Arabic person and black person goes on a murder spree and their victims are exclusively white, it's not because they're racist, it's because they internalized white supremacy.

Seriously dude what the hell do you imagine is the 'end game' of all this shit? What is the "final state" of society that will get you to quit worshipping melanin as your religion? Are you actually seriously just building up to a Final Solution to the Caucasian Question? Because the only time I've seen white people get 'absolved' of their racial guilt, it -> literally <- required them to clean the fucking boots of black people when they demanded it on the street. The goddamn CEO of Chik-Fil-A was intimidated into doing it, on camera.

The only reason you think it 'pits POC against each other' is because you only see two "teams" in this fight: whites, and "POCs", and the way you constantly talk about them, it's clear you think the "POC" team are the 'good guys', and whites are the evil fucking baddies. There isn't one thing you can ever say about someone non-white that could even be remotely negative, no matter how true, without there being a wall-to-wall meltdown. Crime statistics are banned. Pointing out the demographics of anti-Asian violence is banned. Police shooting statistics are banned.

I mean, you know, we can just have a race war if you want, but you should probably bring your A-game, because whites are the undefeated race war champs.

1

u/[deleted] May 03 '21

Absolutely fucking based

0

u/cyrhow Apr 14 '21

Imagine a compliment being "racist".

2

u/checker280 Apr 14 '21

But it’s not a complement. The only reason I’m being mentioned is to put the other guy down. All it does when not said in private is out a target on my back as the teacher’s pet.

Got siblings? How would you feel if you were constantly asked “why can’t you ever make good choices like your siblings?” You’d both grow to resent the comparisons.

Edit - spelling

0

u/cyrhow Apr 14 '21

If other minorities can't get their shit together like Asians, then that's their problem. Not mine. I don't resent the label. I was always proud of how hardworking my family was. Don't push that Liberal, race hustling ideology onto us. We've been fine without it. Americans have a problem with racism... Left wing racism.

2

u/checker280 Apr 14 '21

There’s a huge difference in me saying “cyrhow is a stylish dresser” and me telling the next guy “tuck in your shirt. Why can’t you dress like cyrhow?”

I don’t mind the hardworking label if you are just talking to me, but don’t use me to put down the next guy. That’s not cool.

4

u/WhyAmIMisterPinkk Apr 13 '21

Of course you don’t. It’s how you’ve been trained.

4

u/LE0TARD0 Apr 14 '21

TIL: Blacks males are mentally ill...

18

u/MeeSeeks218 Apr 13 '21

This is an incredibly ignorant and narrow perspective. To blame mental health is a convenient way to denounce something yet not care to change the status quo. Hate to break it to you, but drop over to r/drama and you can see people justifying attacks on Asian Americans. Racism is real, and is even worse that these are unprovoked attacks.

21

u/moBu-8hha Apr 13 '21

Did you think it was a hate crime when the white guy shot up the massage parlor?

-13

u/md702 Apr 13 '21

I don't know, I think it was likely racially motivated, but he could also have been just targeting places that made him sexually fustrated, dude was nuts.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

i was raised christian and i was never motivated to murder. strange!

3

u/A97CU4ca Apr 13 '21

Because it doesn't fit the narrative.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

Honest question. Be straight with me. Would you afford this same level of covering for the perp if he were white? Would you be writing the same exact comment you just did if the perp were Bob Johnson from Bronxville? I’ll await your hopefully honest reply.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

Uhhhh the perp here is black, just as in most of these Asian hate crimes that somehow is being treated as a white monopoly incident. I’m asking about this case. But since you brought up the white guy, can you link to me your exact comment of “he’s mentally ill” for that incident like you’re doing here? I’ll wait. Inb4 you downvote and deflect again.

3

u/therealsylvos Apr 13 '21

If the subjects of intense sexual obsession were asian women and that led him to murder exclusively asian woman, how is that not racially motivated?

3

u/Leading-Bowl-8416 Apr 13 '21

He shot two white women also (killed one) in the incident? You know that happened right?

1

u/checker280 Apr 13 '21

Because it’s the binary thinking again. You are ignoring that he could have both been targeting the Chinese because of his twisted religious upbringing. People are complicated and things can be two or more things at once. By ignoring the racial aspect, you are just perpetuating the issue.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

[deleted]

3

u/checker280 Apr 13 '21

You are right. I fixated on the second half of his statement because the “but” dismisses the first half.

3

u/mamalulu434 Apr 13 '21

I think the but dismisses the second half. He presents his claim initially. This is the part he wants to put forward. Then he presents an alternative potential.

1

u/Leading-Bowl-8416 Apr 13 '21

Why is it ok to make assumptions about one group and not the other?

1

u/snowdrone Apr 13 '21

I don't know, why?

5

u/bobsp Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

It's absolutely a hate crime issue. Why else are they targeting Asian Americans almost exclusively? *Edit: Just blanket statements that it's "mental illness" without actual proof does not refute anything. Notice how there are people of all sorts of other races that aren't targeted by this man and the 20+ others that have attacked Asians in the last week alone?

4

u/officerwilde420 Apr 13 '21

This is a hate crime. Enough mental gymnastics.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '21

Sooooooo

Black male attacks anyone = mental illness

A white guy does anything = THIS IS PROOF OF WHITE SUPREMACY

Interesting.

2

u/starlight_chaser Apr 14 '21

Yeah I’m pretty sure all racists are mentally ill.

5

u/obnoxiousspotifyad Apr 13 '21

Was the BLACK MALE attacker just having a bad day?

5

u/AwesomeAsian Upper West Side Apr 13 '21

Because Insane Asylums are known to be effective and humane...

4

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21 edited May 12 '21

[deleted]

0

u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21

Perhaps there are alternatives between ignoring the problem and widespread indefinite involuntary detention.

In any event, it is not that authorities just opted to stop the practice, it was rule unconstitutional (unsurprisingly).

7

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21 edited May 12 '21

[deleted]

0

u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21

Which people? Decided by whom and on what basis? How do you know who is going to commit a crime? If you do, why is indefinite confinement the only way to mitigate that risk?

It's not unconstitutional by the way but that's another question.

Depending on how you answer the above I guess, but I will wait to hear your responses.

It's unconstitutional to restrain someone who is capable of taking care of themselves.

Incorrect, that is not at all the standard in the Olmstead decision.

No one is saying that people with severe mental illness should not be charged with crimes. Depending on their assessment, they can face either incarceration or state-mandated treatment. But that doesn't mean you can indefinitely confine someone with mental illness as a general matter.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21 edited May 12 '21

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u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21

By that standard, you're indefinitely confining anyone with mental health issue with history of violence if they can't afford to pay for their own treatment? That won't fly under standard of Olmstead. Yes Donaldson got rid of broader proactive institutionalization, but Olmstead says have duty to return to community setting. If someone is refusing comprehensive treatment in community setting and court rules represents a public danger, then there is a path for institutionalization. Likewise if someone needs to be involuntarily confined on emergency basis, there is means to do that for a short period of time. Longer-term confinement the state needs to return to community setting unless meet standard under Olmstead.

So the answer to your question, is likely need to actually fund comprehensive mental health treatment as well as address housing issues in the city. Otherwise, like many places, we accept the cost of managing symptoms b/c we're neglecting to treat the disease.

A mentally ill person committing repeated violence is not "non-dangerous" and there is "more" (i.e., their history of violence). Many of them cannot survive safely and obviously are only getting to this point if they cannot manage themselves or with the help of friends or family.

Except Olmstead makes mental illness a disability, and creates an obligation for accommodation & living in community setting with state support.

If properly treated are they inherently a significant danger to society? If so, can go down involuntary confinement. Not if you're just tossing them back on the street and hoping for the best.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21 edited May 12 '21

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u/ChornWork2 Apr 13 '21

Except you're missing the point that with appropriate treatment these conditions don't result in people being inherently dangerous to society. The issue is they are not offered appropriate treatment. It is not doctors' fault the state isn't dealing with the problem appropriately.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '21 edited May 10 '21

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '21 edited May 12 '21

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

What if they had a mental illness where they only attacked black people? Would you have the same opinion?

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u/Crossbones2276 Apr 13 '21

A lot of chicagoans have that one.

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u/lawthug69 Apr 13 '21

I don't see this as a asian hate crime problem

That's just the white supremacist in you. You've been conditioned to ignore an obvious white supremacist attack when you see one. Don't worry, you're not beyond redemption. You just need to be reeducated.

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u/Crossbones2276 Apr 13 '21

How is this white supremacy when there were no white people in this attack?

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u/lawthug69 Apr 13 '21

Oh white people are involved in this attack. If a black man kicks the shit out of an elderly Asian woman, you best believe white supremacy is the cause.

https://www.yesmagazine.org/opinion/2021/04/13/white-supremacy-racial-violence-united-states

Basically if we got rid of white supremacy (i.e. all white people) the utopia would be ushered in overnight. This should be common knowledge and I'm glad you'll be forced to understand soon.

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u/Crossbones2276 Apr 13 '21

You need to be trolling right now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '21 edited May 10 '21

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u/Living-Stranger Apr 13 '21

You are an idiot

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '21

Racism Is Mental Illness

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u/c3r34l Apr 13 '21

stop releasing people with mental illness into the streets

While I’m all for more public funding for mental health, involuntarily committing everyone with a mental illness would be, well, insane.

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u/md702 Apr 13 '21

Let me clarify, people with mental illness who has a history of being violent.

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u/checker280 Apr 13 '21

There’s a huge chasm between committing people to the insane asylum and making treating mental illness widespread and affordable.

How about not releasing anyone with a mental illness, homelessness (some people just prefer to live on the streets), and addiction, and then asking the police to treat it as a crime?

Why not find funding to deal with these issues at the source before they become a problem to the rest of society?

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u/c3r34l Apr 13 '21

I just wish people in this thread would use “mental illness” as the red line that gets someone committed. Are you really suggesting we “stop releasing” people with depression, attention deficit, or anxiety? And release from where? Invisible mental health facilities? Or just prison?

Edit: I also suggest that those who preach for the return of asylums get informed about their horrific history in the US.

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u/checker280 Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

First I’m not the original poster. Second there’s a huge chasm between asylum and treat the mentally ill. Similarly there’s a huge chasm between provide resources for the poor and give away free money. It would help the discussion if you stop framing it that way.

In the 70s in NYC they shut down several mental institutions because it was a drain on resources and subsequently put everyone on the streets. They also stopped treating mental illnesses.

Then the cops were forced to pick up the slack and deal with the homeless who refused to move away from the trendy areas, the disturbed who harassed the locals, and tossed all the addicted in prison.

Yes, if we are all saying these people are mentally ill then maybe we need to focus on treating and dealing with them instead of criminalizing the behavior.

As a starting point, here’s a Wikipedia article that talks about the funding created by Jimmy Carter that was stopped by Reagan - it’s also why I’m irritated by the Republicans who keep framing it as a new issue that they are not complicit in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980

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u/c3r34l Apr 13 '21

I’m not the original poster

But you did suggest “not releasing anyone with a mental illness”. No mental health professional would take this statement seriously.

there’s a huge chasm between committing people to the insane asylum and treating mental illness

That’s exactly my point - why do people keep suggesting “not releasing” or outright locking up anyone with a mental illness in an asylum? That’s a completely ridiculous notion.

And thank you for the 60,000-foot view of mental health treatment and funding in the US. I’m quite familiar. It doesn’t change the fact that returning to the asylum system would be dumb. Having specialized institutions? Yes. Detecting early episodes of psychosis to prevent schizophrenia and offering better structures and support for patients? Absolutely. Same goes with substance use and treatment. But the fact remains that inpatient treatment, let alone involuntary commitment, isn’t recommended for most mental health conditions. Saying “don’t release people with a mental illness” is a carceral view of mental health institutions. It denigrates people with mental health conditions and paints mental health and treatment in way too broad a stroke.

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u/checker280 Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21

And again, you keep framing this as asylum when I keep arguing care - as in don’t release people with illness under their own recognizance but keep them under continuous care.

My first statement was there’s a big difference between asylum and making mental healthcare wide spread and affordable. But you keep debating a statement that was not made by me.

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u/Redditlovespedos69 Apr 14 '21

Of course you don’t. Why is Reddit so afraid to make black be take responsibility for their actions lol. That’s why this shit will continue to happen. Because they get off every fucking time