r/philadelphia • u/NakedPhillyBlog • 2d ago
News Neighbors' Concerns Over Parking Could Doom North Philly Senior Affordable Housing Project
Transforming a vacant lot on Cecil B. Moore Ave into affordable senior housing? The Philadelphia Housing Authority is on it with a 63-unit project! But hold on – community concerns about parking are causing a stir and could put this much-needed development at risk. Can this project overcome the opposition to secure its future and provide homes for those who need them most?
445
u/origamiokame 2d ago
anyone who argues against housing in favor of parking should have to give up their home and live in their car
132
u/sarahpullin8 2d ago
Or be forced to build their own private parking like they insist others do.
13
u/siandresi 2d ago
And if all that fails, they should be forced to at least park a few blocks away and walk. But they shouldn't be able to get away with this shit.
50
u/wtbgamegenie 2d ago
Weird how they never raise these sorts of concerns when I developed wants to put in luxury condos but the second the word “affordable” is introduced, all sorts of concerns come out of the woodwork.
69
u/comercialyunresonbl 2d ago
Idk, agree you may get more NIMBYs for affordable housing but people here bitch about parking for nearly every development.
27
u/daXypher Grays Ferry 2d ago
People even bitched about replacing an overgrown empty lot with a parking lot
8
u/Independent-Cow-4070 2d ago
Now its frustrating their argument holds even more weight because of the septa cuts
23
u/CerealJello EPX 2d ago
They raise parking concerns over every type of development, even single family rowhomes.
14
u/SteveJeltz 2d ago
You think people arguing against a development at 20th and Cecil B Moore are wealthy folks?
12
u/cloudkitt 2d ago
where are these development proposals that *didn't* have a bunch of whining about parking?
3
u/comfygoth 2d ago
I can assure you they complain about every possible development, often in contradictory ways. So many meetings where people demand more affordable units that are also exclusively single family, as short as possible, and that any construction be invisible and unheard.
1
1
1
u/opbmedia 2d ago
luxury housing do need to provide parking too, but with luxury housing prices, they can build parking either undergound or in the building as a paid-for amennity (and sometimes somehow get away with providing less parking). But afffordable housing likely will not have the budget to also provide parking in the building.
5
u/sweatingbozo 2d ago
Nobody should "need" to provide parking. In fact, that's actually how you encourage more people to own cars m
0
u/opbmedia 2d ago
Write your regulators so they can change the laws.
2
u/sweatingbozo 2d ago
We're working on that all over the country right now.
-3
u/opbmedia 2d ago
The closest business to my house is 2 miles so I’m going to need a car.
6
u/sweatingbozo 2d ago
So you don't live in Philadelphia? Why are you even in this thread?
2
u/opbmedia 2d ago
Work and taxes
2
u/sweatingbozo 2d ago
None of what you're saying is relevant to an apartment building not building parking...
→ More replies (0)4
2
u/opbmedia 2d ago
No, the issues if they are saying more housing will cause more parking, which they don't want. Zoning code requires accommodating more parking for development projects, so more house = more parking. they are not arguing they prefer more parking and less housing. They prefer less parking.
1
u/origamiokame 2d ago
What I get for not reading. This zoning code needs to experience homelessness for a bit
-2
u/opbmedia 2d ago
I actually experienced homeless for a bit so I have a frame of reference when it comes to needing housing. The parking requirement is to make sure to keep the livability of the neighborhood. Quality of life is lower when the area is too dense to support it. In a city without perfect transit people will have cars, and parking is an issue (hence why everyone double park in south philly). You can't prevent people from buying cars, so you try to keep the density down by requiring parking spots when building housing/business. So if you can't build enough parking to accommodate a certain number of units, you reduce the units.
Of course we need more affordable housing, but the existing residents don't want to lower their quality of living to accomodate it.
I am not taking a position on this, I am only trying to explain. Please don't assume I agree or disagree.
0
u/owl523 2d ago
I don’t think it plays out that dense neighborhoods are less livable or that quality of life is lower. I’m thinking of Manhattan. Or CC vs North Philly. Fishtown now versus 15 years ago.
2
u/opbmedia 2d ago
I was only talking about perspective of transit and parking. Transit is better in Manhattan so car/parking is worse than transit.
165
u/ballsonthewall Southwest Center City 2d ago
"I don't want old people to have a place to live because it might inconvenience me when I park my car" is such an antisocial take and it's been so normalized... insane
-9
u/Either-Simple3059 2d ago
Can you blame people? People NEED a car to survive. Septa lines were just cut. Many can’t make it to work without a car. This is a reality of living in a city without adequate public transportation. You’d never see a take like this in New York City because the public transport is good and people know it’s a city you can’t drive in very easily
9
u/ballsonthewall Southwest Center City 2d ago
If the goal is to create a city with better public transport, making planning decisions based on car-centrism is antithetical to that, no? I agree with you to an extent, this is a bit of a chicken and egg situation (and each case is different!) but we can't get away from car dependency by adding parking spots every time we build something.
-3
u/Either-Simple3059 2d ago
People are never going to vote away what they rely on while alternatives don’t already exist. That’s all I’m saying. Of course people are crying about parking in the same city that just had its public transportation gutted
1
u/MidorriMeltdown 58m ago
Perhaps a solution could be all parking becomes paid parking, and the funds raised could be used to improve transit.
Also, those that want to drive need to be reminded that alternatives to driving result in less traffic. And they need to be reminded often.
1
u/avo_cado Do Attend 2d ago
ebikes
-1
u/Either-Simple3059 2d ago
Okay this is your desire, not reality. People will use cars until the infrastructure permits and forces another alternative
1
u/avo_cado Do Attend 2d ago
Go look around on the streets. There are more ebikes every day
1
u/Either-Simple3059 1d ago
Yes. There will also be more cars.
Are you disagreeing with the fact that people rely on cars and will buys cars when public services are cut?
I’m not against e-bikes. I think cars should literally be banned from cities. But I’m just telling you what the reality is. I keep getting downvoted because you guys think me being pragmatic is an endorsement of the current state of affairs. Until Philly is like New York where there just isn’t anywhere to park and the city stops making the construction of parking mandatory for every building, things win change.
98
u/bukkakedebeppo 2d ago
Jeffrey Young Jr. can eat rocks.
38
u/comfygoth 2d ago
He is a total joke.
22
u/PHILAThrw 2d ago
It’s darker than that. He was hand-selected as Darrell Clarke’s successor, who timed his resignation announcement in such a way that no one else had adequate notice, time, or funds to mount a viable campaign.
The insider-only game that runs rampant in local politics has landed us with Young for the foreseeable future - unless he chooses to step down, he will comfortably hold his position for decades.
32
u/courageous_liquid go download me a hoagie off the internet 2d ago
just for context:
Six other people initially sought the nomination for the District 5 seat. But all of them other than Young waited to start collecting signatures until Clarke’s announcement that he wasn’t running again, which came pretty late — just two weeks before a filing deadline.
The other contenders, including the person who was considered Clarke’s handpicked successor, either didn’t collect enough valid signatures, or lost other legal challenges to their filing petitions,
That leaves Young as the only person in the race (other than possible write-in candidates). There are no Republican challengers.
and also for fun
The Inquirer reported that Young has a decade-old history of offensive social media posts insulting women, Asian Americans, and other groups. He also lamented “a war on cars and parking in Philly,” disparaged urbanist policies, and criticized SEPTA, bike lanes and dense housing, the paper reported.
1
4
u/aintjoan no, I do not work for SEPTA 2d ago
Yeah, this isn't quite right. Young was not the hand-picked successor.
34
u/NoREEEEEEtilBrooklyn Stockpiling D-Cell Batteries 2d ago
That area of Cecil B Moore ave. always has plenty of parking. ALWAYS. I park there for Temple basketball games and almost everyone who lives in that area has a driveway or parking spot of some sort on their property.
3
u/this_isn-t_my_name 2d ago
Yeah this is a weird argument to make for that immediate area. I drive by this lot everyday to get to work, and there is tons of parking. Entire blocks with only a few cars parked at 6:30 in the morning.
36
u/NonIdentifiableUser Melrose/Girard Estates 2d ago
Imagine opposing a vacant lot becoming literally anything because of parking.
-4
15
u/Immediate-Truck-5670 2d ago
This is a serious problem in Philly where neighbors can delay projects forever until they get what they want
9
58
u/NYJets18 Fishtown 2d ago
It’s so ridiculous that the only concern people in this city have about new projects is parking. We live in a major city with public transportation (though there are cuts to septa right now) we don’t need every single apartment unit to have space for parking, this isn’t the suburbs
2
u/doMinationp 2d ago
Can't have new residential without parking, can't have a parking garage without ground floor business, can't have a whole shopping center without residential or parking, repeat ad infinitum
12
u/kanye_come_back 2d ago
We can’t even build senior housing on a vacant lot on CBM??? And people wonder why Philly is poor
52
u/afdc92 Fairmount 2d ago
The fucking selfish car brain that has this city in a chokehold is infuriating. Fuck seniors who need housing, I need my parking. Fuck cyclists who need protected bike lanes, I need to use them so I can unload my groceries. Fuck pedestrians crossing on a walk sign, I need to run this red light to get to my destination 10 seconds faster.
23
35
21
u/ifuckinglovebluemeth 2d ago edited 2d ago
I love NIMBYS. They do so much for the city like stopping housing projects from being built and flooding the streets with cars and traffic. I've always wanted to live in a city where I pay $2000 per month for a shitty apartment and have to walk an hour to get groceries.
10
u/OneCrew1888 2d ago
Blighted empty lots are not good for anyone. Pathetic!
3
u/comfygoth 2d ago
Good for people that love dumping trash and illegally parking! Won’t someone think of the rat populations.
1
u/baldude69 2d ago
Most of the people who oppose this probably own their homes outright and are mistakenly convinced it will make their taxes go up
8
8
u/just_start_doing_it 2d ago
Not just neighbors but Council members who serve minority interests instead of the needs of the public
6
u/H00die5zn Salt Pepper Ketchup 2d ago
I can’t allow my brain to take up any more space with this parking non-sense. People complaining about parking also the households with 3+ cars driving to the corner store. We. Need. Housing.
6
u/gayWomanlover 2d ago
No body ever thi ks about the cars :(
The us has a major car housing crisis with cars stuck in the cold and rain with no where to go oh the tragedy 😢
This is leading people to have to walk an entire block sometimes 2 blocks to get to their car D:
THE HORROR
11
u/themightychris 2d ago
Imagine all the big beautiful parking Philly could have if no one lived here
5
u/chigaimaro 2d ago
This is SO dumb! instead of arguing for better public transit they want to prevent people from getting an affordable house to live in... great.
13
4
4
u/GreenAnder NorthWest 2d ago
A few years ago, when I'd been in the city for about 5 years, (been here about 10 now) I got into an argument with someone about parking. I was basically saying that if you lived in a city it was reasonable to have to park a few blocks away sometimes.
I said this in the neighborhood Facebook group and some dude and his girlfriend just went ballistic. When they found out that I wasn't born in the city they really lost it, telling me that if I thought that way I should move back to the suburbs and that people in the city were entitled to park in front of their own homes.
I ended up just telling them that if they wanted to park in a driveway then they should be the ones to move out of the city, because that's what I'd had my entire life before I moved. They just did not seem to understand what I was saying at all.
I think about that conversation every single time some car brained nonsense happens in the city. There are so many people who live here and seem really dedicated to making it as much like the suburbs as possible.
3
u/No_Shopping_573 2d ago
Idk senior homes can really limit the number of cars reasonably. Call it ageism but it’s honestly better for the well-being of a lot of senior citizens to not have the car.
I know the emotional argument very well that it’s a loss of liberty but kinda sick of Boomers expecting everything and leaving us this world. Give up the car and stop risking other people’s lives cause you’re not accepting your age with grace.
8
u/BrendaHelvetica fishtown (formerly e. passyunk) 2d ago
It’s always about BUH MA PARKING. WHATTABAH PARKING!
-2
u/CroatianSensation79 2d ago
I mean I get it to a point. Some of these apartments they’re building around me in Port Richmond have no parking so now douchebags are parking on sidewalks or blocking out the sidewalk ramp. It’s frustrating. There should be parking set aside when they build. This 100 units/20 parking spots is a mess.
7
3
u/Direct_Remove509 2d ago
This shows the significant problems the people in the city have in general if this can’t even be agreed on. This seems like a no brainier to build.
3
3
3
6
u/lordgilberto Brewerytown 2d ago
Seniors get free SEPTA, if any sort of development should be immune to being torpedoed over parking, it’s senior housing.
5
5
2
u/AbsentEmpire Free Parking Isn't Free 1d ago
I feel lile this antihumanism car brain bullshit wouldn't be as bad if the city made all streets parking permit required and charged real value for it.
4
u/MomentousTime1337 2d ago
Maybe if there was an even better functioning public transit system we wouldn’t keep talking about parking issues like this.
3
u/GordonBombay7 2d ago
I feel like this is a south Philly thing. Honestly, this is why I left Philly for nyc. I don’t need a car.
3
u/kcorder 2d ago
This area doesn't need extra parking, but I would appreciate more car garages in some areas where parking is hard. Last night it took me 20 minutes to find a spot anywhere near 2nd St northern liberties. With SEPTA getting fucked, we unfortunately can't expect people to go without cars. Build upward housing and parking (or below level, but Philly doesn't seem to do that much)
2
2
u/Lemmilar 2d ago
They should build it no matter what, but can they put an underground parking garage?
12
u/ballsonthewall Southwest Center City 2d ago
that would massively increase costs, the return just isn't there especially for old folks housing
0
u/Lemmilar 2d ago
Understood. I feel like they could make it paid parking for the people really, really concerned about parking, maybe to offset costs. But I guess that would take a ton of time.
10
u/sarahpullin8 2d ago
When ppl in Philly say ‘parking’ they mean free parking directly in front of their house. Not one person complaining about the development is going to pay for parking.
1
1
u/Ok_Ambition9134 1d ago
South Philly is concerned about PARKING!!!?!? Irony, it seems, is not dead after all.
1
u/ThisisTophat 10h ago
I just wish they didn't keep making everything so ugly. What is that huge horrific dystopian complex along the river off of 95? Every time I drive past it it creeps me out. It's like the condo version of barracks.
1
u/JediDrkKnight 2d ago
Truly, we need to find a system that balances less community engagement with not disenfranchising people's voices. Because the current system is fucked beyond belief.
0
u/opbmedia 2d ago
If SEPTA do not get more funding more parking is going to be needed. Low income seniors ride SEPTA for free, btw, so less SEPTA definite will crowd the street with cars.
0
0
u/Sea-Abbreviations65 2d ago
If it's for mostly seniors, why couldn't the street level be a permit parking lot with the units built above it? Shorter distance for them to walk and for the convenience, as long as the parking is enforced. I guess the developer couldn't build as many stories high=less income units.
-2
198
u/soeasytohate 2d ago
WHERE AM I SUPPOSED TO PARK MY COLLECTION OF 1994 GEO PRIZMS THAT DONT RUN!!