r/politics • u/ZuP I voted • May 12 '25
A Mother Took Her Sons to an ICE Check-In. She Never Saw Them Again. | No criminal records. Pursuing green cards. Under Trump, it doesn’t matter.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/alma-lopez-diaz-ice-deported-el-salvador.html7.7k
u/Angstrom_Wither May 12 '25
I spent a long time today (longer than I should) having a discussion with someone on this subreddit who is likely cheering this on. They've blocked me, but they might even be in this very thread.
What I came away from that discussion realizing (whether for the first time or the thousandth) is that Trump voters are pretty much a lost cause. I say this as the child thereof.
It isn't some random abberation, either. We never extinguished the Confederate sympathies after the Civil War. We never extinguished the Nazi sympathies after WWII (Operation Paperclip is pretty damned far from extinguishing Nazi sympathies). We never replaced our hostility towards Native Americans with anything but quieter antipathy. Lots of people still think women should get back in the kitchen and shut up. Lots of women think that, even. These people think every gay person is trying to cut off their child's genitals for some reason (and I'm only embellishing a little).
We may, as a nation, move past this...we may not...but the shocking, galling, vomit-inducing reality is that there's absolutely no cure for the substantial number of Americans who read that headline and cheered.
I don't know why I typed this out, necessarily, beyond some kind of empty commiseration. I'm living in a world where, in a choice between doing literally nothing or breaking your back to be cruel, people will rake themselves over coals to spite someone who already has less than they do, just to make themselves feel less hollow and soulless.
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u/Sashivna May 12 '25
I told my therapsit the day before the election that regardless of the results, I was still going to wake up the day after the election and realize that 70+M of my fellow citizens, including neighbors and family members, who honestly did not see any real issue with casting a vote for Trump. 70+M who actually *like* all of this. I'm trying to figure how to deal with that.
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u/LandscapeNatural7680 May 12 '25
I feel this. Every day.
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u/justagirlfromchitown May 13 '25
Every. Damn. Day.
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u/Timeformayo May 13 '25
I remember after the 2016 election, when my Never Trump Republican dad tried to console me by saying it was how Republicans felt after Obama was elected…
No… aside from Cheney, my opposition to the Bush admin was about policy disputes. Bitter at times, but still mostly about policy.
This… This was half the electorate declaring that they HATED me and my friends and other vulnerable populations.
This wasn’t about different approaches to achieving goals and living American values.
This was a total rebuke of American values as I had grown to understand them, in favor of nasty tribalistic animosity.
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May 13 '25
Project 2025 is absolutely un-American by nature.
They want to destroy the Constitution and implement their white fascist theocracy
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u/justherefor23andme May 13 '25
It's not un-American. It's a return to the 18th and 19th century America.
We had but a beautiful moment in time where the average American could get ahead with New Deal politics and the Civil Rights era. That's been but a blip considering all our history.
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May 13 '25
If you are against the US Constitution, then you are anti-American.
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u/fimmCH98 May 13 '25
And yet look at the President and the tons of nothing happening against him
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u/DecorativeRock May 13 '25
Yeah, because fascists control all three branches of the government and they've abdicated their responsibility to the executive. Republicans are anti-American.
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u/justherefor23andme May 13 '25
Slave owners wrote "all men are created equal" lol
We were inching closer to the ideals the founding fathers wrote, but it doesn't do us any favors to ignore that most people have had a shit deal for almost the entire duration of this country. Especially if you were not white.
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u/Bryan2966s May 13 '25
Destruction of the constitution is very unamerican and im sad as a veteran of this country that you feel that way … i lost brothers and sisters i hold dear to that fiasco in the middle east and i have many more brothers and sisters in arms lost limbs and blood by the pints for your freedoms that constitution allots… you kinda are a disgusting person for acting like the project 2025 is a good thing and that its American in nature.
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u/brightblueson May 13 '25
The White Christian Nationalism already destroyed the continent. It was destroyed centuries ago
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u/mm44mm44 May 13 '25
They no longer see, honor or value the former America. The are looking to remake it as they want it to be. They have the Supreme Court eating out of their hands along with congress.
We are fucked
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u/Freshies00 May 13 '25
Also just because they might have felt that way doesn’t make it an equivalence. Obama did not actively go out of his way to ruin peoples lives or enrich himself by dismantling the US constitution.
They just hated him because he was of the opposite political party
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u/YouShallNotPass92 May 13 '25
They hated Obama because of that *and* because he was a black man who did his very important job with confidence
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u/Capnmarvel76 Texas May 13 '25
The 'with confidence' is important. I had a coworker say to me one time during the Obama Presidency 'He talks more black now, like he believes in himself'. He said that with disgust. It completely floored me.
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u/Recipe_Freak Oregon May 13 '25
I'll bet if you'd asked him, he would have been shocked to be called a fucking racist.
They all seem so surprised...
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u/InsuranceToTheRescue I voted May 13 '25
I never found his speech especially "black."
P.S., the stereotypical urban slang that rich white people like to bitch about actually has regular grammar. I'll try to find the article, but I remember reading one a few years ago that studied it. As an example, even though the specific contractions might be unusual for standard English, they follow regular rules and patterns and are constructed with the same parts of speech as common ones you might expect such as "let's" or "isn't."
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u/pzykozomatik May 13 '25
He may not have, but conservative media like Fox, not to mention the rising number of online conspiracy groups, painted him as the devil and spewed lie after lie about how he would destroy America and oppress conservatives/christians/white americans just the same way Trump is doing to minorities now.
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u/ScotchCigarsEspresso May 13 '25
Sorry to piss in your pessimistic Cheerios...(i feel the same btw)
But realize that only about 30% of those eligible voted, and of those only 50.3% voted for Trump. So only 15% of voters did this....
So wake up tomorrow realizing that we can change this by simply voting in every cycle. Get involved in the real world (yes, this makes feel better,) but it changes nothing in the real world.
Vote, volunteer for the Democratic party, Hell, run for office. And cast your vote fully realizing that we (currently) live in a binary 2 party system. So it's literally us or them.
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u/WeirdcoolWilson May 12 '25
I’m still trying to reconcile a family member who takes pride in the fact that she has voted 3 times for trump and that HE is the answer to what ails us; an elder family member whose TV is on continuously to Fox News and relies on her son and his wife for care and support. I’m the wife. I really don’t get it.
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u/Shamann93 May 13 '25
How did fox convince our grandparents that they needed the TV tuned to them every waking second? My grandfather, who would turn off a light if you stepped out of a room to go the bathroom, left and still leaves the TV on fox, even if he's leaving the house for hours. And they had satellite radio in their cars since it became available, so they could listen to fox when they were out. It's like they believed they couldn't miss a second
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u/turquoise_amethyst May 13 '25
Would it be wrong to use AI to tell them to turn off the TV, get up, go outside, and breath the fresh air? Go on a walk? Pet an animal? Talk to their grandkids (not about politics)? Learn a new hobby?
Just basically unplug from all media for a few weeks?
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u/TrimspaBB May 13 '25
I remember 90s Nickelodeon would have short "commercials" like that: it was literally a picture of a yard on a sunny day and the words on the screen said "It's summer. Go out and play. We'll be here when you get back." I'm sure it was some kind of public health initiative but that kind of thing needs to make a comeback.
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u/Ridiculicious71 May 13 '25
Most of these folks believe there is a spirit in the sky dictating everything we do. Not hard to take the Fox leap
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u/Stellaaahhhh I voted May 13 '25
I blocked fox from my mom's cable and a bunch of maga accounts from her Facebook. I highly recommend it if you can swing it. It made a huge change in her mood and in our conversations.
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u/thrawtes May 12 '25
an elder family member whose TV is on continuously to Fox News
Would you be unable to understand if that family member was taking a daily dose of a highly psychotropic drug?
Media, information, feeds into the brain just as surely as any external chemical. She's marinating her brain in fear and hatred for hours a day. She's high on drugs, and I don't mean that as a metaphor, I mean she's high on drugs and that's why she acts so erratically. The chemicals in her brain are literally altered by what she consumes through her eyes.
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u/raincityrocks May 13 '25
This is the key to maintaining any speck of compassion for them. It is not at all easy to do. :/
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u/yooperwoman May 13 '25
If you and your husband are caring for her, I suggest you put the child lock on Fox entertainment and any other faux news channel. That might be a good first step toward sanity.
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u/findingmike May 13 '25
Why support them? They probably don't support you.
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u/DJfunkyPuddle California May 13 '25
Right, stop coddling these fucking pieces of shit. Cut them off.
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u/blindguywhostaresatu California May 13 '25
I had a rough time after the election as well. I was and still am profoundly disappointed in this country.
The choice was super easy but this country let me down and is now doing awful things to people and will continue to do awful things to its citizens. And I’m still working through how he can still have support despite all this.
It’s really sad and disheartening to see my fellow countrymen be so awful to others.
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u/jsdeprey May 13 '25
I agree, I am upset with the economy and how they have dismantled so many core programs our government was doing so quickly. But, the real issue is how they are treating people, I dont care if they are here illegally, or where they are from, the obvious propaganda being put out by our own government about how everyone from a certain place are bad and how they are only doing these things to bad people, while we know they are lying and when confronted the reply is they are here illegally they have no rights is disgusting.
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u/arbitrambler May 13 '25
You see the majority absolve themselves of the blame by saying that they are single issue voters and didn't want this.
While we know and deep down THEY know, it's just a facade!
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u/sinkingduckfloats May 13 '25
Something changed in my view of America in this election. I used to have a naive view that the bad stuff was in the past and we were ever improving.
But this election I realized that what I thought was America was just a dream in my head. The real America is a lot uglier.
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u/EGO_Prime May 12 '25
I'm trying to figure how to deal with that.
Be prepared, get organized and be ready. They will come for you one day. Probably not first, but eventually. Be ready. What ever that means for you, be ready.
These are very evil people, they have control over everything, and frankly we aren't stopping them.
Find others of like mind and organize.
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u/Sashivna May 13 '25
Be prepared, get organized and be ready. They will come for you one day. Probably not first, but eventually. Be ready. What ever that means for you, be ready.
I am and I have been in the ways that I can be.
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u/CauliflowerTop2464 May 13 '25
Some will regret their decision. Hopefully most, but I doubt it.
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u/travers329 May 13 '25
Yup looking back on my high school and college years, I was hopelessly naïve about how many unashamedly, uneducated, racist, misogynist, sexist, purely hateful human beings there were in the United States. I always assumed it was a small fraction, the number is at least 10 times higher than I expected l, and in all likelihood it is probably closer to 30 times higher than I expected. It is an all likelihood at least a third of the United States.
In hindsight, those studies that came out saying that at least a third of America struggles to read above a 5th to 6th grade level explains a hell of a lot of what has happened over the last two decades.
Coming to terms with this has been one of the more sobering and depressing experiences in my life. And to make it worse as the top comments said, Most of these people are gone and cannot ever be reached. It is one of the reasons that I don’t see us getting out of this without blood being shed, and probably a lot of it…
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u/Er3bus13 May 13 '25
Any local business that supported this regime doesn't get a fucking nickel from me. I've got a good memory...at least for now and they can all eat shit.
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u/CharlieandtheRed May 13 '25
The crazy thing for me is that we all have to sit here and pretend that Trump is normal and not a ego-driven, money-loving child. It's just wild. I wouldn't want a personality like that to run my grocery store, let alone my country.
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u/allgrownzup May 13 '25
I lost a lot of faith in mankind after Covid and seeing how people reacted to it. This feels like a continuation of that, I’m not surprised anymore, I’m just numb.
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u/mothyyy May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
The answer is - Christians. First, the Christians consolidated into the GOP, just like the billionaires wanted. Then Trump told the Christians everything they wanted to hear and vilified the Democrats as being anti-christians, saying they want to abort babies at 9 months and turn kids gay /s
I'm not really joking. Someone once said "When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in a flag and carrying a bible." It didn't matter what crimes Trump committed because he was their messiah. In fact, because he was their messiah, they made excuses for him while believing every single rumor about Harris that they came across. "She slept her way to the top. She's a home wrecker. She approves the genocide in Gaza." And of course, Harris is a black woman and you'd be disturbed to know just how many sexist racist people still exist in this country. They're like roaches that just won't go away.
I think it was inevitable that a white male charlatan like Trump would come along some day, ruthlessly conning the whole country with christian rhetoric, fear-mongering, blatant racism, and a ridiculous display of faux patriotism. He made all the empty promises that a candidate could make. "I'll create jobs, lower taxes, lower prices, reduce crime, increase wages, stop all the gangs, catch all the drug dealers, fix everything, give everyone a house, close the borders to criminals flooding in from all over, and cure all diseases!"
People ate it up. And it seemed like the more we tried to warn them, the more they doubled down. But once that assassination attempt happened, I knew it was over. It was so convenient for him, wasn't it? Zero injury, perfect photo op, perfect timing. Biden had just dropped out and the buzz for Harris was ramping up. Trump couldn't criticize Biden's age anymore. His whole campaign was to defame Biden. So what a coincidence that not long after, he survives an assassination attempt. I don't know if it was staged or not, but he shamelessly milked the result for all it was worth. I wonder how many undecided voters made their decision that day, thinking that the Democrats tried to kill him. It wouldn't matter what the investigation turned up, nope, their mind was set, especially with Trump encouraging all the conspiracy theory.
So yeah. Christians. 77 million gullible, racist, sexist, ignorant, paranoid Christians fell for the most shameless used car salesman of all time.
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May 13 '25
I remember when I voiced my opinions after the attempt. Everyone said "oh but he'd be a martyr!" Yeah, but he'd be fucking dead. Dead. He wouldn't be here now if the kid had succeeded. Martyr all you want but a dead guy can't get elected. (No, wait, mel carnahan did... Anyway, ) A dead guy can't serve and I seriously doubt anyone could have picked up the torch and ran with it. Nobody could have gathered in Trump's base. They either would have dropped their toys and gone home or the party would have fractured among all of the people clamoring for that position. But he would be fucking dead.
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u/CFL_lightbulb Canada May 13 '25
As a Canadian I kinda gave up on you guys after the election. And now it’s only gotten worse with the 51st state threats.
Like sure, lots of you are normal folks but lots of you are just so filled with hate and ignorance it’s impossible to reconcile.
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u/tropicsun May 13 '25
A Mexican neighbor of mine has Trump “take America back!” Stickers in their cars. They are bilingual and own a moving company that employs Mexicans. I just don’t get it…
Or my refugee family members that do t look white supporting this…
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u/oki-ra May 13 '25
I would say somewhere between 25-30M are guzzling the flavor-aid, the rest are just sheep. There family has always voted republican, abortion is worse than anything the right can do, trans people are the devil and we got to secure our borders. The last of which just forgets that we are a nation of immigrants. If you can trace your line back to the founding of this country that means your family was some form of undesirables.
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u/haterading May 12 '25
This hits and puts into words my greatest fear about this admin being voted in.
I expected this horrible stuff from them. I’m far more deeply disturbed that there are bad people all around me that really want to see other people suffer. I just don’t understand.
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u/jayfeather31 Washington May 12 '25
The last ten years have been something of a real eye-opener, really.
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u/Player00Nine May 12 '25
The lack of empathy is a cult trademark. Humans are highly disciplined, you can teach them many behaviors that wouldn’t naturally arise in a functional society. When leaders set the wrong example, this is where it leads. If a society doesn’t defend a basic sense of morality, it begins to unravel. American society is deeply damaged now, and I doubt it will return to anything decent anytime soon. This is a global phenomenon, but the normalization of cruelty and the desire to harm anyone outside one’s camp is especially pronounced in the USA.
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u/After_Flan_2663 May 12 '25
Thing is they want to erase real History that's evolved over the years they hate new after all. Just wants to watch stuff from the 50s.
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u/GameMusic May 12 '25
you are overestimating hate from those previous decades
restorative hate is totally distinct from simple inertia
think reactive backlash versus residue
because those reactive grifts are always fake cargo cult stuff
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u/RunawayHobbit May 13 '25
I had my suspicions and went and looked at your comment history— dude I’ve seen that SAME GUY literally all over Reddit today, spewing Nazi shit, thanking ICE for “their good works”, crowing about how America is gonna be “great again”.
I’m not sure if he’s a bot or someone whose entire job is to spread hatred on the internet, but I’m not surprised at all it’s him. Fucking loser.
For reference, his username is Whaddduptho and he’s a piece of absolute shit
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u/lurker1125 May 13 '25
Reddit is infested with bots. Anything you post, the opposite will follow immediately.
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u/flip314 California May 13 '25
Spreading Nazi hate is A-OK on Reddit.
But you'd better not mention a certain video game character, or your post will get deleted.
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u/literallytwisted May 12 '25
I'm with you, I think that things will start swinging the other way but it probably wont happen peacefully or quickly. I've been telling anyone who could be singled out to get out of the US if it is at all possible because it might get pretty bad before the majority has had enough.
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u/rainshowers_5_peace May 12 '25
Most people suffering under this administration blame "the people around Trump" instead of Trump himself. Silver lining is that when Trump croaks MAGA will fall apart, for a few years at least. The hate will still be there, but there won't be a figurehead. Trumps ego is too large to name a successor. Even his own children aren't beloved by his base.
No one will storm a building or put up with this kind of crap from Vance.
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u/dpdxguy May 12 '25
No one will storm a building or put up with this kind of crap from Vance.
I can clearly remember believing no one would even vote for Trump. We can't say with any level of confidence what horrors are and are not ahead of us.
Sorry. :(
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u/strangelyliteral May 13 '25
Trump by all accounts has truly absurd amounts of absurd personal charisma IRL. Seth Meyers said he ran into him a few months after the 2012 WH Correspondents’ Dinner and was so dazzled by Trump, he briefly regretted going so hard on him during his set.
Absolutely none of his lackeys have shown the same.
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u/dpdxguy May 13 '25
Trump by all accounts has truly absurd amounts of absurd personal charisma IRL
I've read that too. But since only a tiny fraction of his followers have actually met him, his charisma in person cannot account for why people follow him.
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u/strangelyliteral May 13 '25
I think it still translates, to a degree. And it’s not like this is the first time in history millions have slavishly followed a despotic leader they never actually met. Trump has the knack for the language of fear and hatred, much like those leaders did, and fools absorb it like sponges.
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u/rainshowers_5_peace May 12 '25
Trump spent decades building himself up as a "great business man" who was a "real guy" not a lawyer or politician. That will be hard for Vance to do in a short period of time, assuming he doesn't go the way of Mike Pence.
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u/dpdxguy May 12 '25
Trump spent decades building himself up as a "great business man"
He really didn't. The "great business man" trope is almost entirely the creation of Mark Burnett's The Apprentice reality show. Before that, his image was "playboy real estate investor," and not a particularly successful one.
Vance doesn't need to re-create Trump's businessman image to lead MAGA. He just needs to successfully take the reins. And, again, we can't know what he's capable of. He's almost entirely untested as a politician.
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u/H_Mc May 13 '25
The apprentice started in 2004. So even if we’re giving it all the credit that was still 20 years ago.
But the Art of The Deal was published in 1987. His random cameo in Home Alone was 1992. I thought his WWE nonsense was earlier, but apparently it was 2007.
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u/rainshowers_5_peace May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
He was able to turn public opinion against several Native American tribes whom he thought were competitors for casinos. He always knew how to make people feel comfortable with being terrible.
Edit: The Golden Girls referenced him as being wealthy a few times. He's been at this for quite a while.
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u/linds360 May 13 '25
I’m a blue eyed blonde haired skinny white girl and I’m terrified
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May 13 '25
I'm a blue eyed blonde haired man (soon to be engineer) with a southern accent and I'm terrified too.
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u/luri7555 Washington May 12 '25
These crappy people were always part of the fabric of our nation. We just didn’t have social media putting them in our path. The division people are so alarmed about hasn’t increased. Only our awareness of one another’s true character has. We could overlook it easier before we saw each other’s fb comments.
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u/southernNJ-123 May 13 '25
THIS!! We have always been a shitty racist country. Travel through the red south, southwest and some parts of the west. Shocking. These “people” don’t travel, aren’t educated and don’t care. And btw, schools aren’t the same in every state. Red states have conservative school boards that limit, censor and delete factual information in textbooks. Even public colleges in red states limit and censor material and what staff can teach. I want nothing to do with these places and people. Nothing.
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u/ThinkThankThonk May 13 '25
THIS!! We have always been a shitty racist country.
The eye opening framing for me a while back was "Native Americans are currently living in their post apocalyptic future"
Similar statements can be applied to any other minority group.
What's happening now is a portion of white people are being clued in to the true nature of things after living through an era where we were convinced the arc of history was bending itself, and in a way we could be comfortably passive about.
Which isn't to be defeatist or anything, more the opposite, the second best time to reckon with the enormity of the task in front of everyone and take that baby step towards making a difference is now.
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u/budgefrankly May 13 '25
THIS!! We have always been a shitty racist country. Travel through the red south, southwest and some parts of the west. Shocking. These “people” don’t travel, aren’t educated and don’t care. And btw, schools aren’t the same in every state
Perhaps, but a few things have changed
- The Republican party and its membership always used to pay lip-service to democracy: not it's openly cheering on a fascist dictatorship and an end to democratic elections.
- The Republican and Democratic party were unified by an antipathy to Russia, and a committent to defending western democracy. Now the Republican party and membership are openly seeking to collaborate with Putin's Russia as it dismembers a European state
- The Republican party always realised, because of (2), that there was a need to assert US power, both hard power and soft power. Now most of that is being destroyed to play party politics
- And on that note, the level of open corruption and profiteering in the Trump presidency is without precedent -- at least in the last 100 years
- The Republican Party has created an army directly controlled by the president: i.e. ICE via DHS. This have never existed before and the trajectory is dark.
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u/janinja0517 May 12 '25
I keep seeing the Fox News poll that shows how controversial/unpopular Trump’s policies have become even in his own circles, but the one policy that still has numbers in the positive majority of “approve,” is on his immigration policies. And all I can think is, “but that’s the worst one.” It’s so directly, plainly, openly, proudly cruel and inhumane. And that’s the one the majority of red leaning folks still approves. 🫠 It’s wild.
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u/thingsorfreedom May 13 '25
Racism and xenophobia are ingrained deeply in a lot of people. They truly believe the undocumented people picking the fruit or mowing the lawns or cleaning the hotel rooms are somehow taking from them.
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u/jerry2501 May 13 '25
These people celebrate deportations because they think they'll be able to get cheaper houses or apartments. They literally think they deserve it more because they were born here.
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u/Ridiculicious71 May 13 '25
They see murderers and rapists, because that’s what’s being reported to them via talking heads on Russian state media
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u/Munkeyman18290 May 13 '25
Just to add insult to injury - these people described above are the exactly the type to go their entire lives - cradle to grave - believing they are God's honest christians. Crosses around the neck and a favorite bible passage and all. They even say a prayer on Christmas blessing the troops, thanking God our children are over seas wiping out someone elses.
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u/Angstrom_Wither May 13 '25
It turns out Imperial Rome is not a great place from which to pull religious inspiration. Gets all "fascist-y" after they nail the guy its named after to some 2x4s and haphazardly try to come up with a reason why he might have wanted to be nailed to something.
"This book really isn't congruous with the kind of stuff we're doing, Caesar."
"Awh...man....give it to that Pharisee, Paul, and see if he can A) turn the whole thing into a love letter to himself and B) make it so far off base from anything that damned hippie said before we turned that carpenter into carpentry."
"Ave, true to Caesar."
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u/ReleaseQuiet2428 May 12 '25
Dude, you are wasting time discussing things with a nazi on reddit
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u/jerslan California May 13 '25
Yep, I got into an argument a couple weeks ago with someone who didn't care that there's proof Kilmar Abrego-Garcia wasn't a gang member or that he actually did come here "the right way" (and was granted protection from deportation during Trump's first term). All they cared was that an immigrant was removed from the country, because that's what they voted for. Not illegal immigrants being removes. All immigrants. It was honestly disgusting, and I ended up blocking them.
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u/KopOut May 13 '25
I urge people to watch Newsmax for just 30 minutes in prime time.
Seriously, just watch it. That will be enough time for you to see what these people are being fed every single moment of their lives that they interact with their media bubble.
For a lot of them, they don’t stand a chance. Nothing they are exposed to now is based in reality. It is all tailored toward one specific goal, and if you watch it from the real world, the unbrainwashed world you will be shocked.
I had to sit through a bunch of Newsmax when my MAGA mother in law stayed with us and literally watched it all day. From morning until bed time. It’s crazy shit and people are getting hooked on it and know nothing else but tell you they know everything.
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u/Shinobi_WayOfTomoe May 13 '25
If I were you I’d tell your MIL that channel isn’t allowed in your household, but that’s just me
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May 13 '25
I had to sit through a bunch of Newsmax when my MAGA mother in law stayed with us
No offense here, but really? In YOUR house? On YOUR tv? Why? 10 minutes on Google would show you how to block that shit.
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u/W4RD06 May 12 '25
I would say, simply, that it has always been this way. If it would help I would say that it has been like this for every country and every hegemon. Go into the pages of history and you will find that every great power's culture has considered itself exceptional and every great power has therefore mostly been wrong.
We can't make people think the "right" things. We can't force them to see the world the way we see it. And so centuries ago we started making republics instead of monarchies because we knew that if we couldn't get everyone on the same, best page all the time then the next best thing was to build a system by which the evil in evil times could at least be slowed down by the churn of due process.
I don't really have a point for these observations either but I do have one truth that I have held close to me in these dark times:
It is not for us to choose the times, it is only for us to choose what to do with the time we have.
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u/bubblesaurus Kansas May 13 '25
Human societies just repeat themselves over the centuries.
just different cultures, cities, countries, religions, and wars.
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u/NYEESH May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
I think one of the biggest misunderstandings for some of the left is that conservatives aren't just ignorant and can be taught and shown why some things are wrong. It's that they actually want those things to happen. Certain belief/law hurts people? Yeah, that's the point for them. Hey, did you know this is basically a repeat of a fascist regime? Yeah, that's the point for them.
(mandatory not all conservatives whatever whatever whatever we all know who and what we're talking about here)
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May 12 '25
We cannot move past this. We must change from this and deal with it. We must deal with the fascism, the confederates, the nazis. It will take incredible strength and a reckoning that goes beyond Nuremberg and instills a lasting cultural change to fix our country. Even to get us back where we were will require strength and determination that will take us even further, away from the failures that got us here. We need to do reconstruction and we need to get it right this time. No more loopholes, no more exemptions, no more immunities. Our rights and the laws that protect them must have fang and claw built into the writing.
Anything less and we will become a failed state.
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u/ShortBrownAndUgly May 13 '25
That’s the sad part. Trump is a symptom of a deeper illness. There will be another Trump even after this one is gone
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u/Lonely_Refuse4988 May 13 '25
Completely agree! That’s why Democrats need to mock and ridicule them, and even largely ignore their plight. Pres Obama and Pres Biden spent enormous efforts trying to help rural white Republican voters, only to receive their hatred and scorn. Trump actively dumps on them and is making their lives miserable yet they will still cheer on their Dear Leader! 😂🤷♂️
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u/Morgenstern20 May 13 '25
We can never forgive these people. I wish we would never forgive them. But you can see the whitewashing slowly happening. You know Dem politicians are gonna bend over backwards for 'Ex-MAGA' votes.
I'm so tired.
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u/Angstrom_Wither May 13 '25
This is more or less how Gavin Newsom thinks he's going to ride the red wave to the White House. He'd have a better chance surfing on the actual Red Sea.
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u/sisterofpythia America May 13 '25
Gavin wants to be president. I'd have thought that idea went up in smoke because of his mismanagement of the fires.
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u/Angstrom_Wither May 13 '25
Never discount the ability of mediocre white men to cling on longer than is either reasonable or rational.
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u/ThisIsntHuey May 13 '25
It’s not just Americans. People fucking suck. The only way you could attempt to eradicate this would be extremely diligent and costly education and life experiences.
But even then, most humans suck at empathy until they’ve gone through something shitty themselves. For racism in general, college, travel and lived life experiences are often far more valuable than anything. For being a kind person, going through your own personal shit is normally the best teacher.
Most of the conservatives I know aren’t necessarily rich, but they’ve inherited damn near everything in their lives. Never gone to sleep hungry. Never had to walk to work in the rain. Never had to watch their car get repossessed due to extenuating circumstance. Never slept outside — other than by choice. Had family to watch kids while they worked. Land, homes, vehicles, businesses, all handed to them. Down payments for homes paid for by mom, dad, or grandparents.
A lot of these people don’t experience hardship until after their 40’s when health issues start happening to them, or parents. And even then, it’s a far cry from the hardship a lot of poorer Americans experience their entire lives.
And the wild thing, they don’t even fucking realize just how charmed their lives are. They don’t even realize how, without that strong loving/caring family being around, just how fucking hard their lives would have been. They truly believe that they did something poor people couldn’t do. That they made better choices. That they struggled to save. That they overcame things because they’re somehow better.
And I’ll admit, I was one of these people. Big family. Wealthy. Spoiled as fuck but I thought it was because my parents just worked harder or saved more than others. If not for my poor life choices in my early 20’s and turning myself into the black sheep of the family, I’m not sure I would have seen reality as quickly as I did.
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u/ed3891 May 13 '25
I had a very similar "seeing the light" experience as you did. It feels all the more damning once you know what you were being brought up to be and how detached from reality you really were, and extremely frustrating to know that no one in the position you used to occupy will ever understand unless their own life experiences mirror your own to the necessary degree.
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u/herocreator90 May 13 '25
For what it’s worth, I used to be very similar. Born and raised listening to right wing talk radio. The thing is, when you’re surrounded by people saying those things are “obviously true” and strip the topics of their due nuance it becomes hard to see the other side. It’s taken years of breaking it down and it’s still hard not to have gut reactions to things along those lines. I am constantly scrutinizing my thoughts to keep them at bay.
Maybe I was young enough to get out, maybe I was special, but people can break free. The entire mindset is a house of cards, each contradicts another, so removing one would collapse their entire worldview. If you can get them far enough along, they’ll be forced to choose between “acknowledge the contradiction, but protect the house” or “slowly and carefully disassemble the house”. Many people try to get them to knock it down (which, frankly would be best), but few have the fortitude to do so (especially given that part of the regular programming is “the evil bad people want to smash your house”).
That’s my ray of hope. I did it. It’s taken years and I’m not done, but I did it. And if I could, maybe I can help someone else do it too.
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u/Angstrom_Wither May 13 '25
I appreciate and respect the humility it takes to share this and I thank you for it. I see shades of myself, in there. I was never a devout anything, but I was guilty of performative nihilism and "just asking questions.'
It turns out, if you really start asking questions, you come up with a lot of unsatisfying answers. You're very close to word for word from the ethos of Street Epistemology, which is a great way to approach things (as long as it's a day where you're able to maintain sunny, Next-Generation-Star-Trek disposition towards the world; it quickly devolves into hostility if you're having a day like I'm having today).
People can break free, but it still requires the intrinsic motivation to do so. You give yourself too little credit for that.
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u/PanicSwtchd May 12 '25
They don't care up until it affects them directly. And then when they get told that this is what they voted for, they then start getting angry and complaining that it is as if people out there actively rooting for them to fail.
It's a lack of empathy beyond their extremely myopic sphere around them. Even those that regret voting for Trump openly admit that they would likely vote for him again rather than acknowledge they really were uninformed.
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u/powerdown1979 May 13 '25
Articles of confederation. Let blue states keep their money and red states wallow in their own filth. There is no other solution that I can see
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May 13 '25
We weren't being hyperbolic when we called them fascists and Nazis. This is who they are.
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u/MommyLovesPot8toes California May 13 '25
This is not an exclusively-American problem. But the very freedoms that make this country worth fighting for, are the freedoms that make us have to keep fighting for it. In Germany, a Nazi salute is illegal. Here, you can legally walk down the street in full Nazi regalia. Here you can still fly a Confederate flag. Here you can still call someone the N word, or go to a church that says all Muslims should be kicked out. The result is, it's easier to find like-minded individuals to form groups and echo chambers. Through that, you can keep these hateful symbols alive and avoid feeling shame about flaunting them in public. Just that alone makes it more likely that a movement or an idea or a hatred will survive through generations unaltered.
But in Germany, they are also fighting back a far-right resurgence. In fact many/most Western countries are reckoning with their own swing towards authoritarianism right now. Outside the West, things are much worse. Look at Israel - founded by Holocaust survivors - razing Gaza and killing tens of thousands of women and children indiscriminately. Look at the resurgence of Islamic oppression on Afghanistan and Iran in just the last few years.
The pendulum that is our world is in a swing of hatred, nationalism, violence, and bigotry right now, which seems to recur every 2 generations or so. It can only do that because this kind of savage hatred is natural in the human race. For a generation or so we rise above these animal instincts, horrified by recent history. And then the next generation gets blood thirsty again. We grew up on the upswing of a pendulum, but it has come back down again everywhere.
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u/oldteen May 12 '25
And most of those people, with a straight face, will claim they're Christian while their cheers, actions, and behavior are very much the opposite.
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u/ARazorbacks Minnesota May 13 '25
You ever wonder why civil wars are so bloody? How “brother fought brother” in the American civil war?
You just typed it up in a Reddit comment.
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u/darthpayback May 13 '25
Thank you for typing it. I share your feelings. Sometimes it’s good to know you’re not alone.
I don’t understand how anyone could read that story and not feel gut wrenching sorrow for that family.
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u/figflute May 13 '25
Not all are a lost cause. My mom finally woke up shortly after he took office again. Unfortunately, she’s the exception and not the rule. My dad is still deep into the cult.
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u/Angstrom_Wither May 13 '25
I'm really glad to hear this happened and I hope you're on your way back to having a healthy relationship with your Mom. That's a really cool thing to reflect on so close to Mother's Day. Thanks for bringing some light back into the discussion.
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u/ReaperEDX May 13 '25
I kinda get it. Some of these magas are people in flyover states and they felt like they've been left behind. Factories that once brought prosperity is now a joke. High paying financial and tech jobs are in cities. If it weren't for them, they'd have these jobs and they'd have this success. Of course, this isn't taking into account their lack of education, knowledge, and willingness to work as a team
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy May 13 '25
In the olden days, when rural folks found themselves in that position, they hopped a train into the city to look for work, or loaded the whole family in a rickety vehicle and became migrant crop pickers.
But frankly that would require bravery and work ethic.
Like I'm pretty sure the modern version is to study very hard at your underfunded public schools, win scholarships or use financial aid to move to the nearest city to attend college the second ya hit adulthood, become some kind of educated working professional. And these folks openly mock that solution!
So, ya know, we're not talking about their "best and brightest" or brave folks with good work ethic, because those are the ones who left the flyover states instead of just bumming around their hometown complaining about their lack of prospects.
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u/One-Reality1679 May 12 '25 edited May 13 '25
They are miserable, short-sighted, stupid people! Just remember how shit their lives are and will always be -- it's proven by the path they have taken of needing to persecute anyone they can identify as "lower" than them. No matter how much they try at it they will never feel like winners, they will never be at peace, they will always be frustrated pathetic losers. They will ALWAYS get left behind by people who are pursuing and doing actual things of value. The proof is in the pudding.
In our country they have all thrown their collective frustrated energy behind one man and the best they could do is a crazy fox news grandpa who shits his pants.
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u/spendology May 13 '25
My older brother and I grew up in a Democratic housheld, we went to college together, we pledged the same fraternity and I moved to his town 7 years ago. He voted Trump and we can't discuss politics or almost anything else because so many things from work to travel to the economy have been negastively impacted by Trump's policies.
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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina May 13 '25
Wow, he’s really into eugenics, and apparently into measuring penises.
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u/CharlieandtheRed May 13 '25
You got it. But I do think there is something we can do. I think people realize they are being fucked by someone (corporations), but because of an awesome and saturated propaganda network by conservatives, they believe the lie that it's the brown and poor people doing it, not the corporations. That's why they get increasingly mad at these groups. But we can fight it by somehow making it clear who their enemies are.
The wild part is they do have a clue that it's the corporations (they call them globalists), but for some reason they cannot see that Trump and his cabinet are the very personas of the groups that are taking so much from them.
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u/Oceanbreeze871 California May 13 '25
“You can’t help them, they’re already gone”
The maga zombie bite is unforgiving
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u/avanross May 13 '25
My gay & conservative friend tells me it’s actually the drag queens and trans people who are cutting off the childrens genitals
🤦♂️
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u/ked_man May 13 '25
I think a lot of people are just thinking we can vote better in 2028 and go back to normal. But normal is long gone, it’ll take a long time to fix what trumps eroded just this year.
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u/SniperBait26 May 13 '25
I found solace in reading the Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan. It doesn’t make me feel better about our current situation but about the possibilities after MAGA is defeated.
There are some very applicable sections to current MAGA hysteria.
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u/IndieRus May 13 '25
In russia, Putin supporters are the same. They have no critical thinking. I spent years arguing with my mother and it achieved nothing.
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u/Angstrom_Wither May 13 '25
This is a perspective I don't hear much of, as a Westerner, that really intrigued me. This far from Russia, we don't hear tons about dissent. I'm sorry about the family turmoil.
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u/Huckleberry-V America May 12 '25
The goal is to make people reluctant to comply with immigration which is just going to cost us more tax dollars to inflate the numbers of non compliant individuals.
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u/Kordiana May 12 '25
They want to make people too scared to come to the US. Isolationism is the goal.
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u/biosc1 May 13 '25
Hey! It's working! Plenty of folks I know have canceled trips already. Especially the Iranian-born friend of mine who noped out of a conference because you just never know.
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u/thewanderingent May 13 '25
I grew up learning about globalization and free trade among nations, learning about how we all share this one planet and its resources, so we need to work together to survive. Funny how the very ideals we were taught have become a problem for the greedy capitalist nations who have taken a “fuck you all, I’m getting mine” attitude. Well, I say “funny” but it’s really shitty and I’m going to enjoy, just a little bit, watching this attempt as isolationism by the US collapse their economy and screw over the very people who voted the current administration into office.
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u/kstargate-425 May 13 '25
Same thing with the IRS handing over peoples data so they can find the undocumented immigrants. This will in turn make undocumented immigrants not pay their taxes which gives them more legal recourse to boot them from the country.
But hey, we now have white South Afrikaners getting private jet rides here as "refugees" when all other refugees were banned since January 23rd. Its totally not a racism thing though, not sure why anyone would think that...
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u/Styxhacker May 12 '25
Last Tuesday, they were denied a stay of removal and their deportation was scheduled for that coming Friday, just two weeks shy of when Josue was supposed to attend his high-school graduation ceremony. “Don’t worry about your graduation,” an official talking to him about his mental health said. “Don’t worry about that stuff. Just put your mind to El Salvador. You’re not from here anymore.”
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u/Proud3GenAthst May 13 '25
Fucking nazis is what they are. And so is everyone who supports this. Fuck feelings of anyone who denies it.
Time to stop wondering what you'd do if you lived in nazi Germany. You're doing it right now.
Turns out that if I lived in nazi Germany, I'd be doom-reading, getting pissed at the Germans' stupidity and praying it will be over soon.
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u/ZuP I voted May 12 '25
Archive if you hit a paywall: https://web.archive.org/web/20250512151132/https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/alma-lopez-diaz-ice-deported-el-salvador.html
Alma Lopez Diaz was sitting in a waiting room of 26 Federal Plaza in Manhattan when an officer came out with one of her son’s wallets and another’s debit card.
She had walked into the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office with her sons Josue, 19, an usher at the family’s church, and Jose, 20, a recent high-school graduate, to accompany them on a routine check-in with the authorities. She also brought her youngest son, Mateo, a nonverbal 8-year-old with Moebius syndrome, a neurological disorder, who has seizures and requires constant care.
Alma, 38, was alarmed. It had always been her custom to go as a family to the boys’ ICE appointments since they came from El Salvador in 2016 and after being denied asylum. She didn’t see why they should be targeted now, given neither had a criminal history — not even a school disciplinary record, says their lawyer. In their pastor’s “heartfelt plea” to immigration authorities, he described the brothers in writing as “free from vices.”
Yet at this check-in, the situation was different from in years past. An officer told Alma that Jose and Josue were now detained: “They are not going to be returning.”
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u/PatchyWhiskers May 12 '25
El Salvador. God. These boys are not going to be released at an airport. They are going to be imprisoned in the death camp.
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u/ZuP I voted May 13 '25
Thankfully they are with a family friend and not in CECOT.
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u/PatchyWhiskers May 13 '25
Oh that’s good!
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u/InnocentShaitaan May 13 '25
These people deserve multi million dollar lawsuit settlements against the US government.
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u/justagirlfromchitown May 13 '25
Visit us at thedisappeared.org to learn more and to download resources to share.
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u/sachiprecious North Carolina May 13 '25
Thanks for sharing! I knew about r/TheDisappeared but I didn't know about the website.
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u/aircooledJenkins Montana May 12 '25
I'm honestly shocked that Alma and Mateo were allowed to leave the office.
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u/Particular_Job_5012 May 13 '25
Mateo is a US citizen, and it's possible she has had successfully shown extreme hardship; https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-9-part-b-chapter-5 or has applied and is not being removed pending further decisions by the immigration courts. It's almost always unclear in these one-sided reports, since USCIS cannot report on private cases.
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u/Wuorg May 13 '25
“They are not going to be returning.”
Oh god, felt my stomach drop reading that. This is a nightmare.
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u/sachiprecious North Carolina May 12 '25
These are people who were brought to the US at ages 10 and 11, undocumented. That's worth deporting them over??? They didn't commit any crimes, and they made sure to show up to their ICE check-ins. They built lives here, and were volunteers at their church. Are American citizens supposed to be happy that these completely harmless people were separated from their family and are out of the country?!
Too bad they're not Afrikaners or else they'd be welcome here...
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u/SpicyButterBoy May 12 '25
I genuinely believe Trump is targeting DACA kids because it’s a huge part of Obama’s legacy.
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u/strangelyliteral May 13 '25
I have a close friend who’s a DACA kid and miraculously got his green card a few weeks ago… he’d applied last year after marrying my BFF and personally wrote the affidavit about their relationship. We’re all relieved it was still approved, but they live in a red state and I’m so worried for him. He’s such a kind, hard-working person—exactly the kind of human being who should have a shot at the American Dream, not tortured mercilessly.
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u/Prudent_Valuable603 May 13 '25
Please tell him to start his citizenship application. A green card is not a guarantee that you won’t get deported.
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u/strangelyliteral May 13 '25
I mean he’s going for that next but it’s still better than being undocumented in a red state.
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u/SpicyButterBoy May 13 '25
If someone is going through any sort of legal process to become naturalized, they’re probably they type of person we want in the US.
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u/subredditholder90 May 13 '25
As someone with DACA, they didn't have DACA. Says it in the article
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u/HLOFRND May 12 '25
Under this administration simply being undocumented is now a crime.
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u/BeastInDarkness May 12 '25
Under this administration simply being Latino is a crime.
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u/distorted_kiwi May 13 '25
This. My local newspaper posted about a man who committed a crime. He was brown and all comments were about how we should be deporting him and others asking if he was even legal.
Not only was that man an American citizen, he was black non Hispanic.
I feel like I’m slowly losing my mind because my immediate thought is, my children are going to be judged for just existing in this town.
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u/Opinionated-Raven May 13 '25
And Latinos still continued to vote for this. It’s like they had this idea that they were one of the good ones
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u/BeastInDarkness May 13 '25
One of the good ones, until you're one of the last ones, then you're the next one.
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u/After_Flan_2663 May 12 '25
It doesn't make sense to me ether hearing stories about kids being deported who lived in the US. No remorse over it just well they are illegal. It's like no that's not the case at all here.
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u/infinight888 May 13 '25
That's because you are a human being who has compassion and empathy. Republicans hate all of that. They consider empathy a sin, they hate PBS for teaching children to care about each other.
It gets easier to reconcile the evil of Republicans when you stop viewing them as people who share your same values and morals. Republicans do not just lack remorse. They are happy with this. They are happy with children being torn away from their families. They are happy with innocent people being thrown into concentration camps.
And I want to be really clear here that they would be more than happy if you were too. If they could justify you, personally, being thrown into a foreign prison for disagreeing with them, they would be thrilled. It wouldn't even matter if you are an American citizen.
They want to cause suffering and pain to everyone who is different from them. It's no more complex than that. No need to overthink it.
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u/RoboLoboski May 13 '25
Sorry boys, we had to deport you to make room for well-to-do white South African settlers.
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u/lodelljax May 13 '25
This gets worse. As a South African they are bringing in the same people who implement voted and enforced apartheid. Now they make up a story of persecution.
They did the same in 1949, and every election during apartheid.
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u/chris-za May 13 '25
These aren’t usually the well to do South Africans. The well to do are also very well educated and have zero issues in getting a work visa and residence in the country of their voice. eg Elon Musk. After all, apartheid did give whites the opportunity of an excellent, free education. If they had the brains. You’ll find them in middle and top management across the globe easily and surprisingly high numbers, if you are able to catch the accent.
Alas, there were also those whites in apartheid South Africa that never finished high school and, due to race, were able to land nice jobs with the government, police, railways, etc. where they could supervise blacks that were their intellectual superiors and feel important. These are the people who now “suffer” being treated like normal people of their calibre and are therefore granted asylum and US citizenship by Trump…
In a way, Trump is doing South Africa a favour by taking them of our hands. Enjoy.
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u/NimusNix May 13 '25
Clinton warned you about the deplorables and you used it to attack her.
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u/hellocloudshellosky May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
What is wrong with people on this thread?! For God's sake, what was she meant to do? If they don't show up for required check-ins while they pursue citizenship, their years of good standing gets wiped out. They become wanted illegals. So they did what our government told them to do - and the boys were deported. The brothers were here for almost a decade, zero disciplinary record in school - actually making the honors list - zero police record of any kind. Not so much as a parking ticket. They did nothing wrong. They came here as children, as refugee families have throughout our country's history, to escape crushing poverty and horrendous treatment by their homeland. We are meant to be the country that welcomes the oppressed! What does it mean to you to be an American? Do you want to wipe out the words of the Statue of Liberty?
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
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u/joni-draws May 13 '25
Until all this crap started happening, I never realized I am patriotic. True, I don’t fit the mold of a typical American in some respects, but isn’t that the beauty of what America stood for. For instance, I’m not a fan of war, and the might of the military. But I respect the f@ck out of veterans - folks that risked their lives to ensure our freedoms. The list goes on - just different ways in which I was proud to be American. I really bought into the ideals of freedom: freedom of expression, and the inalienable truth that “all men are created equal”.
This situation has rocked me to my core. The selfishness. Greediness. The “I got mine” attitude. There is a rot in this country that has boiled over. And the America that truly was great (because it was imperfect; a work in progress) is now a cesspool. The Right has co-opted Patriotism, and turned it into a twisted farce.
I don’t know why I’m specifically replying to you, but your words remind me that others feel the same way. I’m tired, but not exhausted. Angry, but not enraged. And getting ready for what comes next.
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u/Comfy_Sweatshirt May 13 '25
It's important to add that it isn't just morally correct to help people. It's selfishly correct, too.
We aren't having many children. Of those that we do, many succumb to poor habits or misguided culture without education as a priority. To ship out 2 students in good standing is tragically short-sighted and anti-intelectual. If good, studious behavior doesn't help you stay around, what does?
This administration is stupid all around.
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u/immersemeinnature May 12 '25
Oh my gods that poor mother. I'm sure she is out of her mind right now. And where are the boys? Are they going to the detention center forever?
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u/ZuP I voted May 13 '25
Not long after they arrived in San Salvador, people in uniforms called out names, many for detainees with tattoos, including one man the brothers had met in the Louisiana facility who told them there were many things he regretted and that he’d become a Christian a few years earlier. He expected to be sent to CECOT, the now-infamous prison.
When they were finally released, a friend of the family, an older man, was waiting outside the airport and took them to his home. When we spoke a day later, they were still there and were not sure how long they would stay or what else they would do. “We don’t have another place or another family member that we could go,” says Jose, “because all our family is in the U.S.”
They called their mother. At one point, Mateo picked up the phone, connected by video, and saw their faces. “He was literally happy for a minute and then he realized that something was not right,” says Josue. “He started crying.”
The child’s horrified reaction has spread to the rest of the family. In Georgia, Alma set up a GoFundMe for her sons, “Stranded and Seeking Hope.” She says she can’t leave Mateo, a U.S. citizen, behind. That suggests a severed link to the older brothers. “I don’t know what would be the next time that I would be able to see them again,” she says. “It would probably have to be many years.”
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u/mayhemandqueso May 13 '25
Shes right. The next time she seems them in the US likely wont be until a democrat is president again. And by then the line of people and the paperwork required will take time.
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May 13 '25
These are incredibly dark times, and as a European, I’m always struck by how little Americans seem to care about one another—at least on a systemic level.
People go bankrupt over basic healthcare, kids are shot in schools and nothing changes, and somehow it all just continues like it’s normal. There’s this deep sense of resignation instead of outrage. It’s not just healthcare or guns either—there’s no paid parental leave, homelessness is treated like a crime, and even basic dignity seems like something you have to earn. It’s hard to watch a country with so many resources let so many people fall through the cracks.
And then there’s ICE. The idea that people can be ripped from their homes, sometimes after living in the U.S. for decades, and deported often without due process is chilling.
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u/darthpayback May 13 '25
My wife is done with the US, and wants to raise our kids somewhere else. I still hold out some hope, and I’m afraid to leave my parents who probably wouldn’t come. Dark days ahead…
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u/Hammer_Thrower May 13 '25
Be grateful you have the means and connections to have that option. Most don't.
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May 13 '25
It's best to leave BEFORE it gets bad. Otherwise, you're just another number in flood of refugees.
And when it gets to that point, the world will close it's doors to most US immigrants, because there isn't the infrastructure to cope with tens of millions fleeing all at once.
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u/thewayoutisthru_xxx May 13 '25
I think it's a side effect of the "rugged individualist" ideals that a lot of Americans think are a requirement to be patriotic. It's really sad that people can't recognize that you can be free and still care for others.
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u/Just_NickM May 13 '25
"Terrible things are happening outside... poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart; men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared."
-Anne Frank (Jan 13 1943)
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u/felixamente May 13 '25
Totally thought this was a quote from another recent article until I saw the name. This is where we’re at.
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u/n3wsf33d May 13 '25
I mean the entire point of MAGA is to make america white again. This shouldn't be a surprise. I'm just thankful my skin color lets me suckle on the teat of white privilege long enough to get out of here before they get me too.
Remember, the color of economic privilege is green. But the color of existential privilege, that's white.
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u/NotTheRightHDMIPort May 13 '25
I have taken my time coming to terms with why people cheer this on. Why it makes them happy.
I dont understand.
But what I do know is that every person who feels a sense of pride, joy, or feelings of happiness in any way is beyond the pale. Im done trying to understand you.
I do understand you in the same way that you think you know me any anyone else who thinks different than you.
You are evil. Evil exists in this world and we are staring at it every day when someone looks at this and says, "Good".
My feelings of dread are gone.
Now Im mad. I have a fury and contempt for these evil people and the sympathizers of evil. My compassion ends for those who end the normal order compassion.
You have none for anyone else. I have none for you.
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u/VanceKelley Washington May 13 '25
Alma, 38, was alarmed. It had always been her custom to go as a family to the boys’ ICE appointments since they came from El Salvador in 2016 and after being denied asylum. She didn’t see why they should be targeted now, given neither had a criminal history
She didn't see why?
To have been alive in the USA during the 1st trump administration deportations, to see him campaign for a 2nd term on a promise for mass deportations of 20 million people, to see him for that past 100 days totally ignore the Constitution, and yet to not see that her boys would be targets for ICE is...
How, just how can so many people be so delusional? Do most people spend all day watching TikTok? Or are they just living in a fantasy world where the leopards will never come for them?
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u/exboi May 13 '25
Victims and oppressors both are cut off from reality, trapped in a delusional world. That’s why we keep getting people saying “I had no idea they could possibly come for me!” Americans are GROSSLY uninformed about EVERYTHING.
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u/grbradsk May 13 '25
America is going through one of it's 100 year complete upheavals. But I don't get it, Trump is obviously a cruel, corrupt guy and also just dumb. But what's worse is guys like Peter Thiel and Elon whose vision for life of the people under them is just not fun. It's cruel, dystopian, elitist and just not at all ... fun. We need a new vision. Sorry for these sons.
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u/cthulol May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
I see "pursuing a green card" a lot in these stories.
Is that a particular processing status, or is it just meant to convey that it was their intention to get a green card in the near future?
Edit: from the two replies I've gotten, it's still not clear to me. I'm asking in the general case.
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u/donnie_rulez May 13 '25
When I was a kid, I was taught that this country was a melting pot of different people and cultures. That there was no other country on Earth like it. And THAT was why we were the greatest nation.
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u/mike0sd America May 12 '25
Arrest Trump today
Make it a slogan and repeat it until it happens
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