r/politics • u/Effective_Salad_8381 • 21h ago

Soft Paywall JD Vance Mocked for Embarrassing WWII History Mistake

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jd-vance-mocked-for-embarrassing-wwii-history-mistake/
10.9k Upvotes

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u/MourningRIF 21h ago

After sidestepping the implications of Ukraine having to make territorial concessions, Vance then suggested that finding “middle ground” was “how wars ultimately get settled.”

He outlined, “If you go back to World War Two, if you go back to World War One. If you go back to every major conflict in human history, they all end with some kind of negotiation.”

Unfortunately for Vance, the Second World War was not negotiated to an end, but came to a close with the unconditional surrender of Germany on May 7, 1945, and Japan on September 2, 1945.

He wants Ukraine to give up territory and negotiate away their ability to defend themselves. That's called surrender, not negotiation.

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u/citizenjones 21h ago

Eight days after the German in charge shot himself, in a ditch, covered in petrol. 

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u/PatSajaksDick 21h ago

Man, don't give me hope

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u/citizenjones 21h ago

I don't touch the stuff.

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u/Dubyew 21h ago

Good. The withdrawals are brutal.

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u/hand_truck 20h ago

I don't know about your experience, but my hope withdrawl seems to take about four years to shake. And then I relaspse. And then another four years to shake. And then I relapse. Here's to hoping I can finally break the cycle in 2028. Ahhh, shit, there I go again...

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u/vagina_candle 16h ago

People make the mistake of thinking there is a finish line in politics.

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u/FromTralfamadore 13h ago

Thanks Obama.

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u/VanceKelley Washington 17h ago

The Nazis lost WW2 because the USA, USSR, and other countries combined to crush the German military.

Today, the USA and Russia are on Team Fascism and are working together to destroy democracy and the rule of law.

Is that fact sufficient to destroy any semblance of hope for the future?

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u/Rynowash 16h ago

You say- America is the axis powers?

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u/Savings_Average_4586 16h ago

Welcome to the fun house of real historic times

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u/AntoniaFauci 13h ago

Republican america.

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u/Tovrin Australia 14h ago

If it was up to Vance, the US wouldn't have been involved.

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u/ohdatgatordead 14h ago

“Are we the Baddies?”

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u/likespb 14h ago

Yes . Yes you are indeed the baddies .

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u/Daedropolis 13h ago

Lack of oil and gas had a lot to do with Germany’s downfall

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u/Spicy_Weissy 20h ago

His tiny feeble hands could never manage to do it himself.

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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 17h ago

I'd settle for a puddle of urine.

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u/Big_sugaaakane1 16h ago

Hope is the first step onto the road of disappointment

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u/Mastershoelacer 12h ago

Your username…is…ummm…weird

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u/Nerbil 21h ago

Dressed to Kill is infinitely quotable every day.

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u/citizenjones 21h ago

I get the feeling it always will be. 

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u/Nerbil 19h ago

Although you left out the “on fire” part, which is very important in this scenario.

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u/pacerguy00 16h ago

Eva darling….

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u/oxygenthievery 13h ago

Well you're gonna need a tray...

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u/That_Is_Satisfactory 21h ago

“That’s funny! Cuz he was a mass-murdering fuckhead!”

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u/mike_b_nimble I voted 20h ago

As many important historians have said.

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u/Low-Advertising724 19h ago

That Hitler guy sounds like a real jerk!

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u/MattieShoes 14h ago

The more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him.

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u/Ttokk 20h ago

"Eva, lets marry!"

"And where shall our honeymoon be?"

"In a ditch covered in petrol, on fire. I've already arranged it upstairs."

"Ahh, that sounds lovely."

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u/CraigKostelecky 8h ago

He really was a mass murdering fuckhead, as historians have said.

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u/Mockwyn 19h ago

He actually shot him self on a sofa, but let’s not split herrs.

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u/Gilshem 14h ago

That was too schön

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u/lycrashampoo Arizona 6h ago

I'm fuhrerous about it

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u/callmedata1 20h ago

He didn't do that. He shot himself in the bunker and was then thrown in the ditch with his newlywed bride, then burned. Then they went to Russia for their honeymoon.

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u/lenovosucks 18h ago

It’s a quote from one of Eddie Izzard’s comedy specials.

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u/Riff_Ralph 13h ago

And Elvis served as best man.

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u/varitok 20h ago

Not just covered in gas. They didn't have enough fuel left by then and threw some tires on his corpse to try to keep him burning

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u/mazarax Canada 21h ago

Yes, it could be a swift end, and desirable at this point.

Still, the The Hague tribunal would be denied. Best outcome is a trial for all the world to see.

I guess if Putler takes this route, The Hague could still process his lieutenants.

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u/Phog_of_War 21h ago

I'd love to see a trial or any consequences really. But a hamburder induced infarction will do just fine as well.

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u/GZSyphilis 20h ago

I hope it's at a rally or on live TV so they can't spin it as well. 

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u/I_Love_To_Poop420 20h ago

“President Trump is handling his death better than any president before him and he looks forward to continuing to accomplish more than any president ever will. His doctors say he is in the best shape they have ever seen and will likely have the speediest recovery from death in history.” -Karoline Leavitt

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u/RootbeerninjaII 21h ago

That was his honeymoon!

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u/freckle_ 19h ago

I see you, you executive transvestite. 👁️👄👁️ (love a good Eddie Izzard call back)

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u/BaronVonStevie Louisiana 21h ago

to be fair, he arranged to be covered in petrol in a ditch after shooting himself but not before poisoning his dog to death.

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u/Mistrblank 19h ago

What kind of asshole kills their dog…?!? Surely those kind of psychos shouldn’t be in charge of anything.

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u/thatforkingbitch 17h ago

One of his generals killed his 6-7 children with cyanide while they were sleeping. They were ruthless psycho's enough to gas and incinerate people. But killing their own children is so eerie and psychotic. Words cannot describe it.

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u/Count_Backwards 14h ago

Not a general, Minister of Propaganda Goebbels and his wife did it - their 6 kids were injected with morphine so they could then put cyanide in their mouths. They didn't want their kids to grow up humiliated, in a world where daddy was one of the worst criminals Germany had ever produced.

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u/hfdsicdo 17h ago

Say what you like about Hitler, but he did kill Hitler

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u/raging-peanuts 14h ago edited 14h ago

I’m trying to square his comments with something like the unconditional surrender of Japan in WW II, after having two Atomic bombs dropped on it.

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u/ardentcase 19h ago
  • Austrian

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u/Mistrblank 19h ago

…on fire.

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u/Swesteel 18h ago

On fire. And that was his honeymoon as well.

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u/atgrey24 Delaware 18h ago

Hitler never played Risk! when he was a kid....

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u/lenovosucks 18h ago

Perfection. Eddie is the GOAT!

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u/Stagecarp 18h ago

“So that’s fun.”

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u/11Kram 18h ago

He shot himself in a sitting room in his bunker HQ, and was burnt in a shell hole outside it.

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u/Takkarro 18h ago

I thought it was in a bunker with his wife or something?

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u/StayPositiveRVA 18h ago

So that’s fun.

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u/Orboneiben 18h ago

Promise?

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u/Lord_Schtupp 17h ago

And in less than 4 years after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

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u/Watcher_of_Watchers 16h ago

Technically, Big H was thrown outside and covered in petrol after he shot himself.

The funniest part is that the German officers above Hitler's bunker interrupted their drunken orgy to come have a look at his majesty's cremation. More of a "lol guys he's on fire" and less of the somber ceremony you'd expect from the SS.

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u/DTopping80 Florida 15h ago

Allegedly

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u/urbanlife78 12h ago

For JD, he would probably end up being crushed by the couch he was violating

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u/AgentIndiana 12h ago

I read that in Eddie Izzard’s voice but pictured Vance dressed as Eddie.

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u/peonypanties 11h ago

The only good thing Hitler did was kill Hitler.

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u/Zarmazarma 8h ago

Vance might have a point here. This is a compromise I can get behind. 

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u/kankurou 8h ago

hitler shooting himself in the head was a negotiation tactic, it's called the art of the deal

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u/breigns2 7h ago

*Austrian

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u/JurisDoctor 7h ago

*Austrian.

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u/ImLikeReallySmart Pennsylvania 21h ago

That last line was my exact thought when I read this. And the surrender was by the initial aggressors. So maybe Russia should be giving up a bunch of territory.

Someone should ask him why Trump considers the US to be the winners of WWII if it was all just some negotiation.

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u/TheGoldenDog 21h ago edited 21h ago

WWI didn't end in negotiations either, it ended with surrender, the collapse of two empires, and the imposition of incredibly punitive conditions on Germany (unless, of course, you count the negotiations between the allied powers that Germany was excluded from).

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u/ExZowieAgent Texas 21h ago

And the end of WWI guaranteed WWII would happen. They were not good “negotiations”.

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u/JessieJ577 20h ago

WWI was just a list of forced demands and WWII was basically what began the Cold War. These negotiations sucked.

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u/ExZowieAgent Texas 20h ago

I always called WWII, World War One, Part Two.

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u/fiction8 17h ago

The Cold War was nigh guaranteed to happen as far back as 1920 when the Red Army lost the Battle of Warsaw. And it's only that particular event because before that it was a hot war for the Bolsheviks against capitalism.

The main contribution of WW2 to the Cold War was to dramatically shift the economic power of the world towards the US, since everywhere else was in ruins. That and the bomb.

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u/JessieJ577 15h ago

That’s pretty much what I was referring to. That and the US being more scared about communism after the Soviet Union was able to spread influence and Germany was split in half for Western and communist influence. It ramped things up.

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u/TheGoldenDog 20h ago

Yup, would have arguably gone better for everyone in the long run if we had taken Berlin and made sure every member of the German armed forces (and citizenry) knew it had been beaten.

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u/APeacefulWarrior 19h ago

The really sad thing is that Woodrow Wilson called it. He correctly foresaw how the Treaty of Versailles (as adopted) would cause problems down the road, and argued for more lenient measures. But got overruled because Europe wanted revenge.

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u/AvengerDr 19h ago

What? Wilson was against Italy getting all their claims. One of the reasons fascism started was to avenge the so-called "Vittoria Mutilata", mutilated victory. The idea that Italy had been betrayed at the peace conference.

We will never know what could have happened, but Wilson was certainly instrumental in giving fascists ammunition for their rise to power and everything that ensued.

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u/OldBridge87 18h ago

The negotiations were not the problem. The fact that we didn't actually humiliate and conquer Germany before we made them surrender allowed them to engage in a collective mass hysteria about how they didn't actually lose and are really the greatest and most powerful nation ever and will now prove their superiority over all others...

At the time though going in and annihilating/conquering Germany when they were already beaten seemed excessive and costly to the troops.

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u/pathofdumbasses 16h ago

The negotiations were not the problem.

Yes they were. They may not have been the ONLY problem, but they put such financial hardship on Germany that it destroyed their economy and people were burning their worthless money to warm themselves.

That is literally how Hitler got his rise; by blaming everyone else (and especially the Jews) for their problems and saying that he was going to fix it.

This is also why after the end of WW2, where they did much worse things than WW1, they got much more relaxed and realistic reparation payment schedules, which they are still making payment on today.

The fact that we didn't actually humiliate and conquer Germany before we made them surrender

As for this, Germany themselves took the Holocaust very seriously because of how awful the US dealt with the end of the US Civil War, Reconstruction, and how all the "south will rise again" shit was allowed to spread.

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u/-SHAI_HULUD 18h ago

We should’ve fucking HAMMERED the American South after the Civil War ended. It would’ve done this country so much good.

Generals, governors, high ups; all should have been tried and executed upon conviction and then go after slave owners and supporters. Our country was waaaay too soft on ignorance and hate afterwards.

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u/OrdinaryFrosting1 18h ago

Only the Eastern Front ended in negotiations and all sides (Bolsheviks, Russian Provisional government etc. and Germany) were negotiating in bad faith and never planned to honor their agreements because they envisioned the collapse of the others countries and governments anyhow

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u/11Kram 18h ago

It wasn’t a surrender, it was an armistice. However the Allies treated it as a surrender and then went on to blame Germany for the war. It has long been accepted that Germany was in fact largely responsible. Also four -not two- empires collapsed: German, Russian, Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian.

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u/TheGoldenDog 16h ago

No, it was a surrender in the form of an armistice. Regarding your other points, the Russian Empire had collapsed a year earlier, and the German Empire didn't collapse - that's a big reason why it bore so much of the burden post-war, it was the only one of the belligerents still standing in something like the form it started the war in.

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u/Mala_Practice Canada 21h ago

The (rhetorical) question now is does this come from ignorance or something more sinister?

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u/NinjaLanternShark 20h ago

What is "both" Alex?

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u/Bad_Oracular_Pig 20h ago

X takes the square

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u/British_Rover 19h ago

Yup remember James David Hamel or James Donald or whatever he decides to call himself next went to Yale for law school and has a B.A. from Ohio State in Poli Sci.

He isn't dumb he is manipulative and he knows his audience is dumb.

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u/MfingKing 20h ago

Something more sinister. They still think they can bully Ukraine into just giving the Donbas and Russia will be friendly during the rest of Trump's term (3 years of time to rearm) and we'll live happily ever after.

This is the US administration, the fucking United States is saying this shit. I should've known after the Iraq invasion that the US is just another form of Russia.

And at this point I'm even considering whether the US and Russia are fuelling this war to keep their economies going just like the cold war era, to the detriment of everyone around them

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u/tehFiremind 16h ago

Proxy-licious.

Muddling things this time 'round are the ambitions of the far Right extemists from Israel. USA is being torn from different directions, iver-stret hing itself as usual, as it crumbles from within.

As Bernie reminds us- them ultra-wealthy though... cushy on both sides.

GL USA

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u/wahinilover2 19h ago

Por Que no los dos ???

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u/sleeplessinreno 19h ago

I am just going to presume he read the wrong history books based on his proclivities.

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u/Total-Being-7723 18h ago

Neither, just indifference. These are not serious people but we expect them to be serious people. Now in a different vernacular we have elected the biggest assholes we could find an expect them to govern. We’re painfully finding out how that choice is working?

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u/Xivannn 21h ago

To add, I don't know if any country ever has ceded land for a ceasefire.

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u/Alive_kiwi_7001 21h ago

South Korea is one example. SK has de facto ceded territory though it still claims the rest of Korea (with little prospect of it happening while the Kim dynasty stays in power).

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u/Xivannn 21h ago

That was for where the lines were, as far as I know, whereas Ukraine is asked to recognize land as Russian that Russia has never controlled and fall back to the new recognized line - for just a ceasefire.

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u/Northbound-Narwhal 18h ago

Finland. Winter War.

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u/East_Loan7876 19h ago

I always push back when people say, "Yeah but he's smart." He isn't smart. He had a PR job in the Army which helped him get into Yale Law. At some combo of the two he mastered enough corpo-speak to spew obvious bullshit at reporters who aren't allowed to "fact-check" him.

He never took the bar, he's failed at every job he ever had other than the ones that were the direct result of Peter Thiel wanting to fuck him (Thiel's boyfriends all pretty much look like JD). I've never heard him say one thing that was the least bit thoughtful, interesting, or impressive. He's just an empty suit saying things with the right inflection of confidence while being completely dead behind the eyes.

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u/East_Loan7876 19h ago

Also when asked a direct question, he characteristically, does the most annoying thing of all time and always straw man's the fuck and of the opposing argument and then answers his own question.

I heard him do this on Ross Douthat's show (Douthat did a decent job challenging him compared to most reporters). "Vice President Vance, are we being invaded by Venezuela?" "Are there 10 million Venezuelan soldiers in uniform storming across the southern border as we speak? No. But-" And then he said some racist horseshit about how if we add up the extended family in Venezuela of every Venezuelan here now and said THEY were all invading (and why the fuck would you do this?) the number was actually concerning blah blah blah. He's such a fucking sociopathic asshole.

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u/Soft_Walrus_3605 15h ago

I always push back when people say, "Yeah but he's smart."

Same here. He's an empty-headed, shapeshifting, Manchurian Candidate who less than a decade ago compared Trump to Hitler and now works with the guy.

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u/ZoiloVersalles 16h ago

I think we should’ve learned by now that attendance at a prestigious university does not guarantee a person won’t be a moron.

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u/subhavoc42 20h ago

famously The Casablanca Conference where allies required unconditional surrender of Germany was required and The Potsdam Declaration requiring unconditional surrender of Japan right after Germany fell.

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u/adorablefuzzykitten 18h ago

Had they shown Casablanca on the plane and not Inglorious Bastards JDs answer on WWII may have been completely different.

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u/Mouselope 21h ago

WW1 negotiation kind of to blame for WW2.

WW2 finished after the enemy was severely stomped into the floor.

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u/MASSochists 20h ago

Sure but the rest of the world could have rolled on Germany as soon as they started to break the conditions of the treaty.

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u/BluesFan43 20h ago

There is a lesson there.

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u/Silidistani 18h ago

ICE made afraid to get out of their vehicles U-Hauls when?

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u/Mouselope 20h ago

Notice I said ‘kind of’ don’t have the time to type up about every geo political stance of the time. However, giving up land does not work.

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u/adorablefuzzykitten 19h ago

Like what Hulk did to Loki.

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u/the_moosen 16h ago

Fingers cross the next one ends like the last one

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u/morpheousmorty 15h ago

Yeah, it shows a pathetic level of understanding of the two wars that shaped the modern world. No wonder he thinks he can bring manufacturing back, he doesn't know the post WWII order where Europe was rebuilding and Asia was not ready to produce high quality products is why the US could sell high quality reasonably priced products.

If you don't understand the conditions that led to when America was great, there's no chance to create conditions today. Spoiler, you can't use the same recipe, that time is long gone.

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u/gdg6 14h ago

Exactly right

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u/oldscotch 12h ago

And further, WWI wasn't really a negotiation. Most Axis did surrender, and Germany was absolutely done at the end. As far as the negotiations in Paris went they barely had a voice while those that surrendered did.

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u/SharpCookie232 20h ago

You could make an analogy to the Munich Agreement, in which Germany was allowed to annex parts of Czechoslovakia, but this policy encouraged Hitler, and ultimately led to the War. Maybe this was what he was thinking of, only he's either got it backwards or he's rooting for the other side. I'm not sure which.

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u/adorablefuzzykitten 18h ago

Exactly. JD is simply saying that the west successfully ended WWII through negotiations, and they did it repeatedly, over and over right up to Hitler changing his mailing address to Paris.

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u/qwaai 16h ago

Despite this being the textbook example of appeasement, Vance has argued in the past that there simply isn't a lesson to be learned from Hitler's rise to power or first steps in conquest.

He is utterly valueless and views his current role as no more than a cheerleader for the president.

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u/KinkyPaddling 20h ago

Everyone knows that Roosevelt’s speech declaring war on Japan didn’t say that, “The American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory.” He actually said, “In our insipid state, devoid of a moral backbone, will win through to an absolutely negotiated peace that favors the Empire of Japan.”

And the War in the Pacific famously didn’t drag on because the US demanded an unconditional surrender, and FDR’s political opponents famously didn’t exploit that in the 1944 election.

(All of that is sarcasm, for people not well versed in WW2 history)

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u/adorablefuzzykitten 18h ago

Thank you for adding the qualifying statement as it no doubt prevented me from reading a post proving half of America is dimmer than a dog eating out of a cat-box.

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u/DogPlane3425 21h ago

Nor was the American Civil War!

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u/Silidistani 18h ago

Sherman should've been allowed to finish the job.

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u/iamnosuperman123 21h ago

What does he honestly think happened to all those Nazis?

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u/Silidistani 18h ago

They moved to Argentina, Russia and America - in the latter they co-opted the not-actually-extinct Confederacy and here we are.

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u/Duster929 21h ago

These people don't know what they're doing.

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u/MourningRIF 20h ago

They are cosplaying being the leader of a country. As bad as it is, their complete incompetence is our only hope.

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u/NinjaLanternShark 20h ago

This is what happens when people think an "outsider" is better than someone who's studied and dedicated their whole career to public service.

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u/mcampo84 20h ago

Not to mention it was “negotiation” that allowed Hitler to take and hold territory he would later use to invade other parts of Europe.

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u/Matra 20h ago

Also, we tried that in World War II. It didn't work.

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u/GrumpyGiant Maryland 19h ago

He added, “If Ukrainians are willing to say something on territory that brings the conflict to a close, we’re not going to stop them. We’re also not going to force them, because it’s not our country.”

No, you spineless, couch-humping weasel, it’s not our country.  It is, however, an ally against one of our most ruthless adversaries.  You know, the Voldemort-looking guy with his hand stuffed up your child-raping, treacherous, truth-allergic boss’s ass, using him like a giant, fleshy, shit-filled sock-puppet to try to pressure our ally into rolling over and giving Putin the victory he so desperately needs and which, prior to your incest-obsessed, child-trafficker pardoning, imbecilic boss’s utter betrayal of Ukraine, was becoming more and more unlikely.

So why don’t we scrub off the cheap fool’s gold paint you tried to gild that absolute turd of a statement in and tell everyone what you really meant: 

“If Ukrainians want the war to end, they should surrender.  The US policy on the war, under Trump’s administration, is no longer to support our former ally.  Instead, our national policy is to get on our knees and go to town on Putin’s dick like a washed-up, meth-addicted prostitute and act grateful for the privilege.  MAGA, woo.”

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u/Silidistani 17h ago

This comment 🤌💢😚

Saving for later use; I'll provide proper attribution.

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u/nopointinlife1234 21h ago

What an idiot. 

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u/Lucar_Bane 21h ago

One can argue that most of theses war started with negotiation and apaisement but war end it up.

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u/repeatwad Missouri 20h ago

Appeasement.

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u/herodotus69 20h ago

However, the negotiations between the Allies had massive consequences. Eastern Europe was given to the Russians. Much as they speak of giving eastern Ukraine to Russia now. Obviously the Allies didn't negotiate with Germany or Japan but that doesn't mean they didn't negotiate. And many people lost from those deals.

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u/dezdly 16h ago

I get that we want Ukraine to win and get its land back but what happens if this war continues and Ukraine ultimately loses? Do they lose more lives and land than if they surrendered now and negotiated to keep what they can? Genuine question

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u/MourningRIF 13h ago

The answer to your question was given in 2014. Recall Russia took Crimea from Ukraine all the way back then. It was seen as all but lost at that point, and the war basically died off until Russia made another push a few years ago. The lesson learned is that negotiating an end to the war just gives Russia time to rebuild their forces. Then they come steaming right back in for more. And there's no reason to believe they would stop with Ukraine. Remember they took Georgia before Ukraine, and they effectively own Belarus. They just set up bases to position for the baltics and Finland. Letting Putin win cannot be allowed to happen. Nobody wants it, but Russia needs to get stomped hard at this point.

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u/brokenwolf 20h ago

I bet he thinks they said thank you as well.

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u/jkuhl Maine 20h ago

Doesn't work for WWI either since Germany suffered a massively punishing treaty. Same goes for Russia when they left the war in 1917.

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u/lithaborn 20h ago

Yes let's look at the end of ww1. Ceded land, complete disarmament, a world peace organisation that the us never joined, hyperinflation, rearming, nationalism and wholesale vilification of anyone the state declared impure, appeasement that allowed huge rearmament, human atrocities like we haven't seen before or since and another world war less than 30 years later.

ukraine won't be able to silently recover, Ukraine will be gone and Putin will be free to go after the next ex-ussr territory, which will be a NATO member.

What's Vance's call, then? Oh yeah, fucking leave NATO.

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u/40StoryMech 20h ago

I agree with JD that we should return Ukraine's nuclear weapons and urge them to start vaporizing Russian cities until Russia unconditionally surrenders.

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u/hunter15991 Illinois 20h ago

how wars ultimately get settled

But JD, the Russian MOD swears this is a special military operation, not a war!

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u/kamandi 20h ago

Ironically, the negotiated settlement to end WWI created conditions that most definitely led to WWII.

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u/blinded-by-the-moon 20h ago

This is just your average lazy ass attempt to justify Trump sucking up to Putin. In fact very few wars ended with a middle ground scenario: Civil War - unconditional surrender Franco - Prussian War - unconditional surrender WW1 & 2 unconditional surrender Vietnam War - US bugged out and threw South Vietnam under the bus ( no more South Vietnam) Afghanistan- US bugged out and surrendered Afghanistan to the Taliban

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u/underwear11 20h ago

ALSO the concession/negotiation that occurred before is considered one of the worst ever and did nothing to avoid the war.

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u/Xenobsidian 20h ago

Holy shit is this guy so dumb or is it an attempt of historical revisionism in order to justify their criminal politics?

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u/Fenris_uy 20h ago

Also the armistice of WWI was what seeded the grievances for WWII.

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u/TheMagicManCometh 20h ago

Also part of what made world war 2 so bad was the extra time Hitler was given while the allies tried to appease him by giving him territory he claimed belonged to Germany.

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u/percydaman 19h ago

The negotiated settlement of WW1, is quite literally the cause of the unconditional surrender in WW2. /facepalm

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u/Adrewmc 19h ago

I mean there was a negotiation, the Japanese signed the documents, they just didn’t…in the words of this administration….’hold any cards’, and in Germany the cards had some brain matter on it.

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u/MourningRIF 19h ago

True. The negotiation was "if you surrender, we won't continue to obliterate you."

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u/manningthehelm New Jersey 19h ago

This man went to Yale? Just how?

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u/MourningRIF 19h ago

Most people who go to Yale get there because they are in the boys club.

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u/structured_anarchist 17h ago

Because despite them being 'the best universities', if you have enough money, you get a diploma even if you spend all your time at the bar or on a golf course somewhere. Going to the best schools don't mean anything if you have enough money. It just means your parents are willing to cut a check for the sake of appearances. It's easier to buy them a job or a political position if they have a degree from (insert high-end school here) as a 'justification' for their 'success'. Look at some supposed graduates of Wharton. Same thing. A bought degree is only as valuable as the paper it's printed on. In this case, it would have been easier to print the degree on toilet paper, since it would actually have a purpose and be easier to recycle.

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u/hymie0 Maryland 19h ago

IIRC, repeated negotiation in 1939 led to the start of WW2, not the end.

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u/LieverRoodDanRechts 19h ago

TBF Vance also blames Europe for invading Iraq so there's that.

Slava Ukraini!

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u/_Ding-Dong_ America 19h ago

They don't care! They are not interested in telling the truth! They are interested in rewriting the truth to further their ideals! They just want to be able to always be right, all the time, no matter how untrue or unjust the actual truth may be!

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u/AllHailSeizure 19h ago

Yeah WW2 ended in negotiations.. also known as the Nuremberg Trials. Maybe we can have something like that happen again.

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u/pconrad0 19h ago

If I recall correctly, WWI also ended with a treaty so unsatisfying to one of the parties to the conflict that it set up a sequel within a generation. So much so that a case can be made that the second world war was just a continuation of the first after a failed armistice.

So this is a spectacular self own.

But, facts no longer seem to matter. Only narrative.

They're eating the cats.
They're eating the dogs.
He's fxxking the couch.

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u/jaferrer1 19h ago

Appeasement is actually how WWII kinda started.

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u/adorablefuzzykitten 19h ago

Thought it ended in Japan.

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u/dover_oxide California 18h ago

Many of the negotiations from world war I were used as justifications for starting world war II by Hitler.

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u/MK5 South Carolina 18h ago

If pressed, I imagine his justification will be that, if Britain and France hadn't betrayed Czechoslovakia and forced them to cede the Sudetenland..where most of their border defenses were..WWII would've started a year early..

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u/happyevil 18h ago

It's even worse than this because WWII was explicitly started with Germany doing shit like this and Western powers giving concessions to avoid a bigger war.

WWII started at least in part because of what he's suggesting we do now.

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u/youveruinedtheactgob 18h ago

Also ignoring the fact that both wars were kicked off/exacerbated by bungled diplomacy.

So weird that he wants to rewrite history to make it seem like the Nazis came to the table for the good of their citizenry. What a strange coincidence!

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u/brendalson 18h ago

Chamberlin on line one Mr. Vance.

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u/Larry-Man 18h ago

Appeasement is what let it get so bad.

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u/grammar_oligarch 18h ago edited 18h ago

Almost none of them ended in negotiation…most of those treaties were code for “JESUS CHRIST STOP KILLING US AND YOU CAN HAVE FLORIDA!” or some variation. They just got written that way to help heads of state save face. It’s not like Napoleon negotiated his way to exile…

EDIT: Even World War I…Germany was basically out of everything and done for, so the allies said “Tell you what…pay us back everything you have and borrow from the US and all’s forgiven…no worries, it’s not like the US will have a financial crisis the likes we’ve never seen and have to call in that debt.” That’s not negotiating, that’s surrendering with grace.

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u/MeatballWasTaken 17h ago

One of the most brain dead things I’ve ever heard him say. And there’s lots of competition

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u/tolacid 17h ago

That's not a mistake, that's attempting to rewrite history.

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u/Roembowski 17h ago

Dude saw the ending of Inglorious Bastards and considered it historically accurate

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u/Beech_driver 17h ago

Also the stated concessions here are eerily similar to the lead up to WWII where …

the ‘negotiations’ giving the Sudetenland to Germany in 1938 were because there were ethnic Germans there who were persecuted and discriminated against and should be part of Germany while also putting Czech military defenses behind the German army instead of in front of them.

While in 2025 Ukraine the stated concessions would give parts of Ukraine to Russia because there are ethnic Russians there who are persecuted and discriminated against and should be part of Russia while also putting extensive Ukrainian military defenses behind the Russian army instead of in front of them.

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u/sb76117 17h ago

Rewriting history in real time. Maybe they cared more about feelings than facts this whole time... Hmmm

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u/East_Leadership469 17h ago

How did WWI and II end again? Oh right, the agressor lost major territory. 

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u/LaMuchedumbre California 17h ago

They both lost territory, though, Germany especially. A lot of its land in the east and Alsace Loraine in the west were historically German majority regions. Negotiations were involved.

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u/thermothinwall 17h ago

ya exactly. how did it go for Czechoslovakia when they gave up the territory bordering germany?

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u/BahutF1 17h ago

Same for WWI btw. Unconditional surrender of Germany and past territories retrieved.

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u/Unable-Lengthiness81 17h ago

Negotiation: “we have destroyed your entire military. In exchange you will give up all territorial gains and pay reparations indefinitely”. “Agreed!”

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u/Wild_Pomegranate_845 16h ago

And Germany wasn’t allowed to attend the peace conference after WWI.

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u/Cinderjacket 16h ago

The negotiated end of WWI is pretty much why WW2 happened

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u/KHanson25 Maine 16h ago

And of course the whole appeasement thing that led to more invasions

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u/WeakTransportation37 16h ago

Yeah, and look what happened when they “negotiated” and gave hitler the Sudetenland

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u/snertwith2ls 16h ago

Didn't Ukraine already negotiate with Russia several years ago? The negotiation was if Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons, Russia wouldn't attack them? How's that going?

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u/DukeOfGeek 15h ago

"They say the word peace, but at the end of the day, all they want is surrender,".

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u/eetsumkaus 14h ago

I guess you could say WWII was negotiated to an end...among the Allies. What is he insinuating...?

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u/Otaraka 14h ago

Someone is pretending appeasement doesn’t exist as a concept.  Noone is saying negotiation isn’t part of ending wars - it just isn’t some kind of magic solution  for aggressive invaders.

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u/Otaraka 14h ago

Someone is pretending appeasement doesn’t exist as a concept.  Noone is saying negotiation isn’t part of ending wars - it just isn’t some kind of magic solution  for aggressive invaders.

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u/Torcanman 14h ago

This my freinds is a stupid...stupid man. He should stick with couches...

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u/ink_monkey96 3h ago

Harold Godwinson famously negotiated the end of the Norman invasion by William Whatshisname.

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u/crazycatgay 3h ago

when somebody breaks into your home and starts stealing your stuff, you don't negotiate with them, you ..... them.

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u/Edspecial137 2h ago

In fact, WWII is most known for the temperature heating up as land was ceded.

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