My family is conservative, and in my parent's house, Fox News is on literally all day long. I feel your frustration.
I try to tell them that because disinformation is being weaponized, it's critical that they get their news from a wide variety of sources. But if my dad turns the channel and watches CNN or MSNBC, he gets angry within minutes and switches back to Fox. He dislikes anyone who criticizes Trump, in any way.
It's absolutely insane. They didn't used to be this bad. Now they just accept whatever Fox News feeds them. It's like they joined a cult.
I make the argument that advertising to a degree, when done well, reflects the character of the target market they're hitting. MSNBC tends to have more mainstream advertising, because that's who's watching. CNN is advertising heaven if you're going for moderately smart, middle aged Americans who maybe still while not always being cognizant of privilege, don't generally get rubed and can be spoken to. Fox advertises to the old and successful, but increasingly stupid due to diminishing mental capacities elderly of this country who "grew up in a different America." Then they fill the rest of that market with the young and uneducated poor whites in rural America, catching the stupidity before it can break out of it. Hence, GOLD! commercials, and other cringy ads that reek scam appeal to that target market.
Know someone who wants to be a Doctor in Alabama because they need them for their fat white trash obese citizens who have a litany of spinal and back issues issues over the years that cause ankle problems. He gets paid because even though they'll vote GOP till they die, he knows when they come in for those treatments without coverage they'll probably be getting some funding by the government, either through some hospital safety net, or some program they magically qualify for but "doesnt count" as government assistance.
Hello! I'm William Devane, you know the world is a crazy place these days, big government, the national debt, and fed printing money like there's no tomorrow. That's why a buy gold from Rosland Capital.
I'e been trying to make myself watch occasionally.
Getting angry shuts down rational thought so I figure I need to keep a cool head even when I'm being firehosed with BS.
Also, I need clear and concise arguments to use as lifelines for people drowing in said bullshit.
Bringing down Trump might only solidify his ideas even more. He will think it was "the deep state" and that it was a witchhunt. The cult of Trump isn't going away until they literally drink the Kool-Aid.
This is partially why I think, even with the Mueller organization, we need to let Trump fall flat on his fucking face as many times as possible.
I still haven't challenged my dad recently as he's seeing how dumb Trump is and getting frustrated with him. Remind him that his own staff calls him a fucking moron and see how they react, because honestly I don't know how it can get through to anyone.
Well, it's even worse than that. Fox is spinning up this narrative that even if/when the special counsel finds Trump guilty, it won't be legitimate. So even if/when Trump resigns or is impeached, a lot of their viewers will believe it was done wrongly, that it really is the biggest witch hunt in the history of America, perpetrated by a liberal power network.
After Nixon fell, virtually no one believed he was innocent. When Trump falls, there will still be a ton of people who think he was innocent. So bringing down Trump might not be enough to break the spell.
Trump is the kind of kid that when he loses, he takes his ball and goes home. He could give a shit about the presidency, but he's going to want to keep all these adoring fans. Getting Trump out of the oval office isn't going to be the end of his dark influence.
Well, it's even worse than that. Fox is spinning up this narrative that even if/when the special counsel finds Trump guilty, it won't be legitimate.
The only thing on our side at this time is Trumps words. Not saying yes or no, but he's so into saying "BELIEVE ME!" that when (if) it comes down on him people will have acknowledge that Trump either is a dumbass or Fox news is wrong, which will be super fucking abrupt as shit. BUBBLE!!
Do you actually think the kind of person whose analysis of US politics brought them to vote for Trump is going to suddenly become a reasonable person with good critical analysis tools just because Trump falls? At best they are just going to say they were wrong about that one thing, and find the next mistake to make.
I have seen the same thing with my dad. He was always conservative, but used to be much more moderate. He has slowly shifted further and further to the right and is unwilling to hear a counterpoint.
Anything that makes trump look bad is fake news or lies spread, or a calculation they’re making differently so Trump looks worse than Obama. I haven’t lived at home in almost a decade, so I’m sure I’ve just missed the gradual change. But I realized how bad it had gotten when we went in a family vacation and were at the beach. He put his book down to go upstairs and I saw that he been reading some “conservative manifesto” written by some tea party guy.
It’s scary, I’ve always thought of his as extremely reasonable and someone I could discuss politics with and have a real conversation, but that has all gone away in a matter of about 3 years.
CNN and MSNBC are barely more factual than fox. They are both a joke too. It's frustrating watching news channels greatly exaggerate and lie about things to appease their listeners.
People that watched Fox News were less knowledgeable than people that watched no news at all. Both CNN and MSNBC were slightly above nothing for domestic questions, but CNN failed at international questions.
NPR ruled all.
They found that someone who watched only Fox News would be expected to answer 1.04 domestic questions correctly compared to 1.22 for those who watched no news at all. Those watching only "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" answered 1.42 questions correctly and people who only listened to NPR or only watched Sunday morning political talk shows answered 1.51 questions correctly.
[...]
In terms of international news, people correctly answered an average of 1.8 of 4 questions.
With all else being equal, people who watched no news were expected to answer 1.28 correctly; those watching only Sunday morning shows figured at 1.52; those watching only "The Daily Show" figured at 1.60; and those just listening to NPR were expected to correctly answer 1.97 international questions.
Those watching only MSNBC were expected to correctly answer only 1.23 out of 4, while viewers of only Fox News figured at 1.08.
Edit: More readily digestible charts are available through the link.
9 questions total - 5 domestic and 4 international.
You can find the actual study here.
The questions were:
To the best of your knowledge, have the opposition groups protesting in Egypt been successful in removing Hosni Mubarak?
How about the opposition groups in Syria? Have they been successful in removing Bashar al-Assad?
Some countries in Europe are deeply in debt, and have had to be bailed out by other countries. To the best of your knowledge, which country has had to spend the most money to bail out European countries?
There have been increasing talks about economic sanctions against Iran. What are these sanctions
supposed to do?
Which party has the most seats in the House of Representatives right now?
In December, House Republicans agreed to a short-term extension of a payroll tax cut, but only if President Obama agreed to do what? (Open-Ended)
It took a long time to get the final results of the Iowa caucuses for Republican candidates. In the end, who was declared the winner? (Open-Ended)
How about the New Hampshire Primary? Which Republican won that race? (Open-Ended)
According to the figures, about what percentage of Americans are currently unemployed? (Open-Ended)
They absolutely exaggerate, but CNN and MSNBC are measurably more factual than FOX. There are neutral third parties fact checking and you can look into their sources.
I feel you, man. I have a similar situation . . . but it wasn’t always that way. He was an Army Officer in the Pentagon during Bush Sr, and he will still reflect on the days he used to check all the news networks to disseminate information for the purpose of figuring out what is going on around the country & world. Broadcast news media is (or maybe was) their eyes & ears back then. He didn’t become a Fox News only guy overnight. It was gradual over many years after retirement (which was during Clinton).
It’s kinda funny and kinda sad. When my sister was dating her future husband, he introduced me to Comedy Central, specifically MST3K. CC didn’t have a lot of its own programs back then, but I began my teens on CC, and just kinda evolved into a Daily Show lifer because I loved Norm MacDonald’s Weekend Update on SNL and was always craving more of that news humor. I was approaching my 20’s when Jon Stewart took over, and my dad was just becoming an O’Reilly fan. The disconnect between the two was unreal. I’d watch The O’Reilly Factor with my parents one day, then TDS in my bedroom later, and it was like I could find all the rebuttals to Fox’s nonsense.
Now I love watching Last Week Tonight for pretty similar reasons. It’s like truly informing their viewers is priority #1, calling people on their bullshit is priority #2, and comedy is priority #3.
If anything, these daily show types got me to realize the importance of one thing I’ve heard from many of my teachers: diversify your sources with historically reliable ones. Fox News has zero awards in broadcast journalism. Mainstream outlets have them. You’ve got a nasty case of cognitive dissonance if you think all those different awards in broadcast journalism are conspiring against Fox.
Sounds like my dad. I purposely avoid political discussion like the plague now because I really don't want to discover that he supports people who support abuse and bigotry.
I feel ya. My instinct is to say that the trick is to get him away from cable news in general, but if you point them toward the internet they are just going to be drawn to the Breitbarts of the world, which is of course assuming that they will listen to us at all.
Well, that's their house and their cable box, you see. They have the right to have their own opinions, especially in their own house, no matter how fucked up I happen to think they are. And to their credit, I know they would say the same about me.
Also, they like fed me & stuff for about 25 years, so I'm not sure what kind of stand I'd be making.
Quoting another post I've seen that is somewhat applicable:
Getting people to love you is really hard. People are particular about who they love. But getting people to hate something is much much easier. You don't have to make people love GOP representatives, all you have to do is make them hate the democratic competition. Anything is better than letting a democrat win. There are many people in Alabama who do believe the allegations against Moore, but will still vote for him because he's very unlikely to rape them personally, and so it's better than putting a democrat in power who will surely eat their flesh while dancing and singing a song to satan.
Vilify higher education. Vilify "half speak" and complex answers and feelings. Vilify the idea of "handouts". Make success itself seem like a bad thing. Make the people feel like they are personally under physical and emotional attack at all times in favor of "the other" and they will vote against their best interest every single time. They learn to love the shit-filled hole you've put them in, and know that anyone coming to help them out of it is the enemy tricking them.
There is no solution for this brainwashing. There is no talking to a republican who believes in his gut that all liberals are evil. You can not convince him with facts, or evidence, or results. The only option is to overwhelm him at the polls, which is why the GOP also works to be sure that liberals struggle to unite behind a single candidate, and why voter suppression and gerrymandering are so important to them.
There are alot of people here though that do the same thing with Fox. And MSNBC is arguably close to as bad for politicizing news as Fox, the other way. I prefer to get my news from NPR
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u/legalpothead Dec 13 '17
My family is conservative, and in my parent's house, Fox News is on literally all day long. I feel your frustration.
I try to tell them that because disinformation is being weaponized, it's critical that they get their news from a wide variety of sources. But if my dad turns the channel and watches CNN or MSNBC, he gets angry within minutes and switches back to Fox. He dislikes anyone who criticizes Trump, in any way.
It's absolutely insane. They didn't used to be this bad. Now they just accept whatever Fox News feeds them. It's like they joined a cult.