Still though. The complacency of some eligible voters is disheartening. Even today some people in the office don’t bother because they truly believe they cannot make a difference.
Yup, the fallout of the collective experience both domestically and internationally will be something else...we are definitely heading to uncharted territory in U.S. history.
I honestly think it will be fine if we turn the ship around pretty quickly. The rest of the world will breathe a collective sigh of relief, and we'll get back to business as usual.
Trumps presidency was decided by a bit more than 77000 votes across 3 states. That's 0.0002333% of the current US population. I feel like thats a good rebuttal to that argument.
When i read how many votes trump won by i was blown away. One state was only 10k votes in favor of trump. Insanity. Its easy to find the exact numbers if you need em.
If you didnt live in those states your vote meant way less. Presidential Candidates spend all their time campaigning in 5 states pandering to 15% or less of the population.
I know those numbers are generalities, but you get the picture. Trump probably spent zero days in Washington state. Hillary probably spent zero days in Texas.
Oh absolutely. But my point was that all elections can come down to similar margins. A minnisotan vote doesn't matter for shit for a Californian house seat so Californians should still vote.
I used to be like that. Now, as long as I live, I will never miss another election. Last November in Texas we had a special election. No person was on the ballot, only referendums, but I still got out there and voted.
My fiance didn't want to vote lat month here in PA cause it was rainy and like 6:30 p.m. I told her I was going with or without her. She ended up going with me. I was pretty annoyed when she was about to bail.
A lot of people need help understanding the impact that Senate, House and local elections have. I live in a purple county in a very blue state. I know a lot of people that didn't vote in 2016 because it was a foregone conclusion that Clinton would carry the state. Because of that a Republic won our House seat by 50k votes.
Because the base is older, retired, and has the free time to go out and vote in every election. It's one thing to hit up the presidential election every 4 years for someone like myself, who drives an hour+ usually to work, is at different job sites weekly, works 10-12 hour days, and can't afford missing work, to just take off early or come in late to be able to vote in every local/state/whatever election. Doesn't matter if my employer lets me take the time off to vote in all of those, I can't afford to miss work to do so.
Even today some people in the office don’t bother because they truly believe they cannot make a difference.
Well, they are not wrong. One vote is mathematically insignificant. I have no problem conceding this point. So don't vote, but TELL people you vote, tell people its important they vote, tell them why Democracy matters. The viral effect can be sparked by anyone and that one DOES significantly matter.
I wasn't meaning to disagree with you. I was just pointing out that the cumulative effect of individuals not voting can make a big difference even if the individual votes don't seem to matter.
An election that ends with 31 more votes on one side is incredibly, almost impossibly close (unless it's a very local election, in a very small place). 1 vote is still relatively insignificant in that equation, but a few tweets and arranging some cars for your friends to go back and forth from the voting booth, with maybe some Pizza after can be the thing that sways that election.
He's trapped. He has no support except for the hardcore Republican base. They support him precisely because he spouts a continuous stream horrible, hateful shit. But that stream of shit turns off a lot of people in the center, and it energizes Democrats. But if he cuts down on the stream of hateful shit, the psychos will soften in their support for him. It's a trap.
He favors Israel for two reasons, neither of which are for the love the Jewish people.
The apocalyptic Christian sects that he needs the support of need to see the establishment of the "greater Israel" with it's biblical boundaries for the "second coming" to begin. These people are trying to bring about "judgement day" as described in the book of Revelations.
Trump is great admirer of right wing tyrants and Bibi Netanyahu fits that mold pretty well.
So there was this Nazi rally where a nazi murdered a counter-protestor.
Trump wouldnt condemn the nazis. In fact he said, "there's good people on both sides".
He endorsed a known pedophile who said America was last great during slavery.
He's cooperating with Russia to control the United States. Meanwhile he's trying to stack the courts to get away with crimes in a very authoritarian manner.
You mean Charlottesville? I believe he said there was violence on both sides, not good people. He also did condemn the alt-right. I agree he didn't handle the situation well (he handled it very poorly in fact), and he may have bowed to puplic and internal pressure, but once again why say things that aren't true?
Here's a quote from Trump. It did take him two days to Mae this statement, and if I'm not mistaken it was after condemning the "hate on all sides".
“And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the K.K.K., neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”
Is he a destructive fool? Yeah, I think so. Is he a neo-nazi? If he is then he's the most wishy washy nazi I've even seen, and quite frankly a pretty bad one at that.
He did not condemn the "alt-right", which by the way is a cover phrase for a large number of radical right wing groups including neo-nazis and white supremacists, until more than a week after the riots, including the murder of a protester by a self professed neo-nazi.
Even then, he only condemned "violence on both sides".
You're right it did take him entirely too long to make that statement, but once again he did condemn neo nazis and white supremacy. You can definitely say it was too little too late, but it's simply false to say he didn't condemn those groups.
Once again,
“And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the K.K.K., neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”
I'm just being accurate. Trump was raised by a KKK supporter and he has steadfastly refused to condemn violent actions by neo-nazi and white supremacist groups. In fact, members of these groups openly support him and he does not reject their support.
That's not even close to something as false as the birther farce.
Sure, but 9 years ago we elected the first black president and look where we are now. It's a very nice win, but complacency put us in the position we are in now.
Yes, but we are also given a constant stream of things to be mad about every single day. The news just keeps coming at a pace that we've never seen before. That might be enough to keep people from becoming complacent, but only time will tell.
Yes, but we are also given a constant stream of things to be mad about every single day
Yeah, which is exactly what's been happening on the right for decades. Fox news, Breitbart, Infowars, it's all a constant stream of bullshit that induces rage in the right-wing.
They're being told every day, "better get out and vote or these democrats will kill babies!", "get out and vote or these democrats will let terrorists in to the country!", "get out and vote or these democrats will let illegals in to the country to steal your jobs!", "get out and vote or these democrats will steal your hard earned money and give it to undeserving welfare queens who will spend it on booze and drugs!"
The right is fueled by outrage, and that's why they actually get out and vote. It doesn't matter that their outrage is manufactured, it's effective.
I'm 27, and up until the 2016 election I had previously only voted in the Presidential elections of 2008 and 2012. No more. I will now vote in every single election at every single level of government for the rest of my life. It's a somewhat meaningless gesture, living in Boston, but it's something I plan on making a life long habit of. I'd wager I'm not alone.
Thank you Grace, but I think you're wrong. It's precisely the us vs them mentally that got the pivotal voters out this time. Think about the fact that Roy Moore was flat-out labeled as a pedophile and how the democrats fucking hammered that label hard. It was a page straight from the GOP playbook. The guy was very unqualified to hold the position he was campaigning for for a litany of reasons, but the pedophile angle was the dominant one. We did an amazing job of making his name synonymous with creeping for underage tail. If this is the way things are going to be in order for us to reclaim a solid hold on our government, so be it.
Literacy tests, black votes didn’t count as full votes, harassment at voting centers, etc. IIRC, one of the main reasons the KKK gained traction was because of blacks receiving rights. The law (begrudgingly, it was more of a political power move) stated that black men could vote legally, but much of society saw it as unacceptable that lesser humans be treated equally.
I disagree. I have far more in common with black men than white women. Mainstream feminism has historically silenced black women while they were often leaders in black movements. The race wage gap is far larger than the gender gap. And black men have far more incentive to greatly alter the status quo.
You have to understand that there is 0 evidence that will support this claim right? We are incapable of testing nature vs buried arguments, and so it’s silly to make such bold claims with no evidence
Obama is probably the most beautiful speaking president I have been alive to see. He’s clear, concise, always looks authoritative and in control of the situation. He was presidential.
That may be partially true, but there are a lot of people on both sides who really didn't like Hillary and that's also part of why they didn't turn out. They didn't think Trump could possibly win and didn't want to vote for Hillary. Though her being a woman was a sadly a factor for some, for those who could have made the difference, it was about her being her.
As someone who voted for her, she has some pretty big flaws.
The biggest one I hear, she has huge lobbying ties. She takes in millions a year, and has for decades along with her husband from various corporations across America. For example her annual income is somewhere around 30 mill, where as Bernie is sitting at just under 500k, mostly because she takes corporate money.
She is probably going to start more wars in the Middle East, she is willing to put more troops on the ground, and try to increase military presence.
Just a couple, and nothing like what trumps pulling off, but generally a sub par candidate
Can’t speak for everyone, but Hillary and Bill Clinton both have a pretty bad reputation with the black community due to previous policies and statements. The votes cast her way weren’t so much because she was a good candidate, but a lesser, known evil.
I would argue the party leaders had a lot more to do with where we are than the voters themselves. It's hard to get masses of people to go out and vote when theres no message behind it other than "at least we aren't Republicans". Hopefully this year has been a wake up call for both the base AND the establishment.
Eh, I tend to think actively trying to keep the same leaders in power is a bit different from complacency. Plus the original post sounded like you were only blaming the voters and giving the establishment a pass. If that wasn't you're intent, my bad.
Sure but did they just vote for him because he was black... So much of or voting is done simply because he's a democrat because he's a republican. Voting is difficult on one side we have a idiot running for office on the other side we have a crook... I chose the lesser of two evils and voted third party.
No lie, I voted for Obama because he was black. Growing up, it’s hard not to idolize drug dealers or athletes or rappers. They’re a vast majority of the successful blacks you see. Of course, there’s doctors, lawyers, and other black professionals, but they often distance themselves from most of the community where drug dealers, athletes, and rappers usually fully embrace it. They’re more relatable.
It was refreshing to see someone own who he was as a black man and be president. Working in schools in the inner city at the time, it’s refreshing to see kids say they want to be president instead of thinking they have to put their physical well-being on the line as an athlete as a way to make it out of the ghetto.
That's great... But I am a minority, I lived a block away from the trap as a kid. My cousin used to make me fight the other kids for money in front of my gmas house. I was about 8 . I don't want to hear this bs. To me vote for the best person that will make America better, whatever vision that you see vote for the person that does that. Forget skin color.
And if you saw McCain or Clinton as a better candidate, that’s great. Obama was the best president we’ve had in my lifetime. And saying someone would’ve been better is subjective and theoretical. Still regret nothing.
Also, America did get “better” under Obama. Remember the recession Bush put us in? Or the hard push against LGBT rights? Maybe the DEA shutting down medical marijuana dispensaries will jog your memory. America was straight trash when Obama was elected. Not going to sit here like Obama is some god, but to say he was a bad president may be a personal bias.
Im not arguing that Obama was better than Bush blah blah blah trump suck blah blah. Im saying vote for the person that you think is right for the ideas you pursue, not because of skin color.
I just don't see where we went wrong as Americans.. was America always like this, I grew up in a small Texas town and we had pride in what we did. I understand people have different values and see things differently but I think to myself how did if Moore molested children.( I haven't done the research to make an opinion) how did he become so powerful, how was he not stopped prior to this. Regardless of views how does this happen. What has happened to my America
BINGO. We cannot get complacent. We cannot let people forget what a giant shit stain on our country the GOP has become. I never in a million years thought I and the rest of the developed world would be paying such rapt attention to a special senate election in Alabama. We need to keep this momentum going.
It was definitely complacency on the parts of the liberal that Trump won. However on the flip side, Trump also won because he was able to rally certain disenfranchised "conservative" groups to go out and vote for him, when most of them have not voted in decades.
The truth is not one side can be complacent. Voting to keep a pedophile/an abortion supporter out of office is still a demonstration of democracy and it is on everyone of us to take our parts to share the narrative we want to see.
i blame the aging boomers. shaking their walking sticks at Fox News. They are still causing trouble the old fuckers. good news? they will all be gone soon.
Yeah but he also didn’t stop the wars overseas and even expanded them. Sure, he was black, but he wasn’t much different. He catered to the bankers and wall street. He was deported in chief. He created a lot of what we are dealing with by catering to Wall Street and their business interests.
I’m not at all a trump supporter, I just don’t like blind faith in Obama. I did vote for him, but I was very disappointed in him, and we should all be for him breaking his promises. We can’t forget that. Th democratic part isn’t going to make things better. We need a much greater shakeup.
I didn't apply any blind faith here. Just the complacency in mobilizing certain demographics of the Democratic party. They got lazy and focused too much on a base that will never vote for them.
Yeah I wasn’t necessarily accusing you of that. That last part was more to show where I was coming from.
They did they lazy. The party got greedy with Wall Street money, and the voters stopped paying attention to what was important. Obama was great at making people feel good.
A democrat was just elected to a seat that has been held by republicans for 25 years. I don't think the attention span is that short.
Against a republican when the republican president has a historic disapproval rating.
Against a republican with a child molestation scandal brewing.
Against a republican who said the 1850s were the last time America was great.
Against a republican who wants to toss out every amendment after 10 (bringing back slavery?)
Against a republican who was tossed from his judicial office twice - because of violating the constitution.
My point is - there was SO much fodder against Moore. And we BARELY squeaked a win out. Yes, it's a great win, I'm thrilled. But Do. Not. Get. Complacent. Do not assume that things are 'changing'
We still have shit attention spans. We still have an uphill battle. Do not sit down. Keep fighting.
The sad part is that out of all those things you mentioned, the only reason Moore lost was because of the child sexual assault, when he should have been rejected by voters before those allegations came up.
If it was any other candidate with the same political views, they would have won.
Roy Moore was not even liked by the Alabama GOP. But, his one and only saving grace (in the eyes of most of the Alabama GOP) is he is anti-abortion. I heard it said that this election came down to whether you're "pro-child molestation" or "pro-baby killing."
Sign me up for baby killing. Overpopulation is a worldwide problem. Plus it's probably kinder to kill someone as a baby than to let them grow up to be molested as a teenager and then see their abuser lauded as a great man.
(00:28) Judge Roy Moore stands for protection (for) ... the rights of babies like your eight month baby that you're carrying now. Doug Jones says you can take the life of that baby..."
When in comes to local elections republicans aren't pushing for an increase in property taxes to pay for chit projects, city bonds, etc. Many of of those initiatives states that funds can be used for other projects. Dems push for those things. And yes my parents are home owners.
Exit poll results showed Moore faring worse among white voters than Republicans in previous Alabama elections, but he maintained a lead among both white men and women and those with and without college degrees.
In Alabama, Moore held a small edge among white women with college degrees and a roughly 25-point lead among white men with college degrees.
If we ignore race, Jones got 54% of the college educated vote, while Moore got 52% of the non-college educated vote. This does imply that having a college education makes one more likely to vote Democrat. Also reinforcing that idea is while Moore did get the majority of college educated whites, it was a much all smaller margin than he had over non-college educated whites. Again, showing having a college education makes one more likely to vote Democrat.
All your statistic shows is that being white makes one more likely to vote Republican. Which is obvious in Alabama anyway.
idk man, for Alabama it's pretty remarkable. It is sad that the bar is so low - a pedophile barely lost a senate race - but that 1.5% margin of victory means something. It shows the cracks in the GOP machine, they are tearing themselves apart - I hope this is some foreshadowing for fall 2018.
You think that Alabama voters would reject a candidate for expressing anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-Muslim rhetoric? Why on earth do you think they'd do that?
There are a lot of crazies in the Senate (ie Ted fucking Cruz), but let's be honest the child sexual assault was the last straw. I mean there are bridges you do not cross and Moore did that and it came back to haunt him.
And let's be honest, there won't have been a media firestorm nor the world watching what Alabama was going to do until those allegations came out. Back in July, everyone knew it was a shoe in for whoever the Republicans would nominate and then November happened.
What probably didn't help Moore was that Republicans already in the Senate could only get the Tax Bill done, out of everything that was promised to happen this year. And the one thing they have done is still not even done yet. So if there were any leaning Republicans seeing that, why would you vote for Moore? You gave his party the majority in Washington and couldn't even come through with it.
Yes to all of the things you said, and yet, Moore still got 650,000 votes compared to Jones' 671,000.
Yes, it was a victory for common sense, and non-pedophiles everywhere, but 650,000 people would still rather vote for a regressive anti-human rights child predator than a Democrat.
Yeah, but also this was Alabama. We should ALWAYS have a candidate opposing the Republican, but we can’t expect to win those. The fact that this can happen in Alabama is heartening for the rest of the country. There are tons of states that are republican controller and shouldn’t be: Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, the middle states, we have to win there. The strategy moving forward needs to push always at all levels of government. Especially leading into 2020. We have to win big to break gerrymandering and set up a fair electoral system.
Barely squeaked out a win in a state that was roughly +30% for Trump a year ago. If this 15%ish shift can be maintained for the next 11 months (and as more comes out about Trump, and the Republicans keep pushing shit like their garbage tax scam and anti-net-neutrality, and the Bannon/Trump folks keep talking, that's likely) then November 2018 will go well for Democrats.
Sane Republicans will be demoralized. Normal Republican donors will be hesitant. Democrats will be energized and engaged.
The Democrat won by a very narrow margin against the devil. Literally, the WORST republicans could offer.
Honestly most every Republican I know see this as a HUGE victory. They pretty much know now they will win every election they put a decent candidate for.
Thank you. The fact that in the end it was about 1% difference in the vote is insane. It wasn't that Republicans voted for Jones. They just stayed home because the didn't want to vote for a child molester.
You are absolutely correct. As much as I'd love for this to be the start of a trend, I feel like its more of an isolated event. Moore had too much baggage that could not be ignored by even the most loyal Republicans.
We forget how Republicans who are born and raised in the South are immediately indoctrinated into thinking our country should operate on borderline theocratic standards. It will take A LOT for this brainwashed demographic to vote for future Democrats who are pro-choice and are open to other religions in America. A common theme I saw during this AL election was this demographic believing the absurd strawman that Doug Jones was a fanatical pro-abortion advocate who endorsed aborting babies right up until birth. This is a lie that their right-wing echo chambers planted into their heads.
All future Dem candidates need to distinguish they are pro-choice, NOT pro-abortion and that blue states where abortion is legal actually have LESS abortions than red states where sex education lacks and is looked down upon.
That makes it all the more frustrating because many who voted for Moore hold the opinion that any R is better than any D, no matter their history. I don't even know how to convince my "conservative" family that Democrats aren't demons.
Yeah, the fact that despite all the tremendously shitty baggage Roy Moore has hanging off him, he still barely lost by a pretty small margin is pretty fucked up.
Against a republican who was tossed from his judicial office twice - because of violating the constitution.
Yet he was voted back in after being removed the first time. That was not an issue for many Alabama voters. In fact, to his base this legitimized him by putting religion before the Constitution.
OK, but for that Democrat to be elected, the GOP had to run a pedo. And he still almost got half the vote. The black voters did not swing this election. Some conservatives that found a conscience somewhere in the dark recesses of the attic won this election.
I mean, you'd have to compare that to the black vote the last time a Republican won the seat. The difference could just as easily be that more whites voted blue than normal.
Turnout is what won this election, and for that, we have the black voters of Alabama to thank. Remember, it's not just percentages you have to look at when you analyze elections, it's mostly about people showing up and being counted.
Is it turnout? Less total votes were cast in this election for a Democrat than in either 2016 or 2008 election. Although, those were presidential elections as well. If you compare the results to the 2002 election, Jones won about 100k more votes than Susan Parker. Moore won about 200k less than Jeff Sessions. So, maybe 100k more black voters did turn out this time. I would still bet my money on pedo Moore just not inspiring as many Republicans to vote for him or swinging them to a Democrat.
Not even just the first dem in 25 years. The last time dems were in there they were Dixiecrats that were exactly like Moore. This is the first time someone from the other ideology of the US has served AL in the Senate since the US government had Willard Warner (who had just served as an OH state senator) finish out a former Confederate's term in 1868.
Did you miss the fact that 600k people still voted for a racist pedophile? Yeah, it's a huge victory, but it was still close and hopefully this is a step in the right direction and not the high watermark.
By a couple percentage points when his opponent is basically accused of being a pedophile.... let’s not pretend this is some big movement. He still got 48% of the vote as a guy who tried to have sex with 14 years olds.
I mean, dude was a pedo. Its not like it was a fair fight. Just like when a known criminal ran against Trump. Hard to win when everyone knows your a shady SOB.
So then step 1 is to vote people in who will change the voting system to cater to that. Incidentally, this will also make our dinosaur of a system more efficient.
short attention spans, short memories, and short sighted
we need to stop the 2 party system and have real election reforms that fix this model t we are running with.
Glad Moore is out, all i know of him is he is an Alabama politician and that he should have to introduce himself where ever he goes to make sure people know to keep their kids safe from him.
I have voted in every election since I was 18 (which was a long time ago) and I don't see what the big deal is. Every two years you do something, that's all. Like once a year I see the doctor.
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u/Shark_Train I voted Dec 13 '17
Our collective attention spans as voters are relatively short it seems.