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u/squirtles_urethra 1d ago
Someone said it yesterday but this lineup with wilyer instead of yoshi is solid af. When the biggest hole in the lineup is a good glove at 2nd and in the discussion for fastest dude in the league you got a lineup
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u/kaworu876 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, with the sole exception of Wilyer being swapped for Yoshida (and Roman starting at DH while Wilyer starts at RF) this is like literally IDENTICAL to the “ideal lineup” that I posted yesterday. I think aside from Yoshida over Wilyer (who is obviously on the DL) the only difference between my lineup and today’s is that I had Yoshida/Wilyer hitting fifth and Lowe hitting sixth, while Cora has it the other way around. Which I totally agree with if it’s Yoshida and not Wilyer.
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u/HallstotheWall17 1d ago
Yea, Yoshida being on the team really complicates things. I truly thought someone was going to get dealt at the deadline to clear up the logjam. But I feel like the best way to handle the outfield/DH dilemma is to rotate between the four outfielders (when healthy). Unless you’re giving one of Duran, Rafaela, Anthony, or Abreu a day off, one of them should DH for a game while the others play the field. Although I’d argue, keep Rafaela in CF as much as possible lol
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u/RaisingFargo 22h ago
Thank God they didn’t though because it turns out we needed the extra bat/fielder
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u/HallstotheWall17 21h ago
Yep! Hindsight always 20/20
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u/RaisingFargo 20h ago
Its foresight, it’s why they didn’t make the trade. The only thing guaranteed in pro sports is injuries
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u/HallstotheWall17 20h ago
True (the only guarantee in sports). And you can never have enough pitching!
Idk if I necessarily agree that it was the reason why they didn’t make a trade. I’m just using Duran as an example because his name was thrown around a lot - I don’t think they traded him because he started to get hot just before the deadline and his value as a teammate really showed.
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u/Traditional_Half842 1d ago
Yoshida went 2 for 3 yesterday with a walk. Seems way more likely that Yoshida would stay at DH a lot and Hamilton would sit or be sent down (with Rafaela at 2B).
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u/DrtyHippieChris 1d ago
Mayer out for the year really hurts
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u/WeCameAsMuffins 1d ago
On a positive note though, it makes me really excited for next year.
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u/AlwaysOptimism 23h ago
If they can dump Yoshida, and get a righty power bat for 1b/DH things are nice.
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u/Traditional_Half842 23h ago
I kinda doubt they invest much in a first baseman with Kristian Campbell and others in AAA all taking reps at 1B and Casas still in the org. They need to improve at 1B and 2B but I don't think the Red Sox are going to be making big acquisitions to address those needs; they'll want to do it internally with all the guys they have.
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u/AlwaysOptimism 23h ago
They still need a righty power bat. Bregman is the only plus hitter from the right. Rafaela is improving and Campell has promise, but both are bottom-of-the order types. Story should NOT be a #4 hitter
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u/Traditional_Half842 22h ago
And I think the org is banking on that being Kristian Campbell. They invested in him longterm for a reason.
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u/AlwaysOptimism 21h ago
Hopefully but he doesn't strike me as a middle of the order guy. Maybe a #2. More OBP than power. Would love to be wrong but he seems like more of a 15-25 homer guy than the 30-40 homers you want in the middle of the order.
Getting rid of Devers makes Alonso an option - though not sure Mets can be outbid.
Goldschmidt is probably the answer. The Yanks will want Rice to get every day AB.
Jake Burger is maybe a low-cost option after how bad he's been the last couple years.
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u/Fit-Let-4135 Anthony, Duran ‘28 21h ago
Alonso
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u/AlwaysOptimism 21h ago
Would surely means at least one of Duran, Casas, Abreu is gone this off-season.
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u/Fit-Let-4135 Anthony, Duran ‘28 21h ago
Hopefully casas only if we do sign Pete
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u/AlwaysOptimism 21h ago
Anthony LF Bregman 3B Duran DH Alonso 1B Abreu RF Story SS Mayer 2B Rafaela CF
Is a hell of a lineup
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u/WeCameAsMuffins 23h ago
I’m still hoping Casas comes back strong next year, but hopefully we can get a RH power bat for DH.
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u/Teh_One_Who_Knocks 1d ago
At what point should the Sox just cut bait and just DFA Yoshida? No team is going to trade for him with that contract unless the Sox were to attach a decent prospect with him. Or the Sox would need to take on an equally bad contract from whatever team he got traded to.
I was REALLY hoping that he would be a good fit here, but with the way the roster is now, there's just really no place for him.
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u/Successful-Peace-867 1d ago
I think it would be very surprising for this to happen before the end of this season, but I don’t think Yoshida is on the team by spring training.
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u/ExperentiaDocet 1d ago
They should eat the contract and attempt to get a prospect back. The roster is still a bit of a crowded mess and they’ll need to do some work this offseason.
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u/Alarming_Maybe 1d ago
i agree but reeeeally wonder what his value is. it's so obvious the Sox don't like him and it's not like he's got a great body of work in the last 12 months
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u/ExperentiaDocet 21h ago
No but I imagine some team that needs budget offense will be intrigued by the flashes he has shown stateside and think they might be able to get him jumpstarted
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u/Godzilla501 1d ago
Nobody wants him. Can't field, run, or hit, and he's not aging gracefully.
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u/ExperentiaDocet 23h ago
I can’t imagine that it’s the case that no one wants him for league minimum. That seems pretty unlikely.
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u/IAlmostRemembered 1d ago
He also has options available (since he wasn’t in the league until recently) so we can always option him if we need the spot.
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u/Traditional_Half842 1d ago
People really would rather see David Hamilton in the lineup than Yoshida? Have we been watching the same team the past 3 years?
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u/Mr_DeLarge15 1d ago
I think it’s less that people are clamoring to see Hamilton in the lineup and more that people want to see Rafaela in CF. Especially when Yoshida has been a major disappointment at the plate so far.
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u/Traditional_Half842 23h ago
Especially when Yoshida has been a major disappointment at the plate so far.
And Hamilton has been Barry Bonds? He has a .530 OPS this season. Yoshida (who has been working his way back from injury) has been underwhelming and his OPS is 130 points higher. And if you just look at their hitting profiles over their careers, Yoshida is very very clearly more skilled in the batter's box.
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u/Mr_DeLarge15 23h ago edited 23h ago
Obviously, Yoshida is a better hitter than Hamilton. But is the gap wide enough to justify playing the best defensive CF in baseball at 2B? For me, it’s hard to defend continuing to trout out a 82 ops+ DH, especially when that means we are a worse defensive team. And one could argue the switch to 2B has even hurt Rafaela offensively.
And if we’re going to bring up Hamilton and Yoshida’s respective careers, we may as well bring up that Hamilton was a much better hitter last year than this year and actually has more bWar in his career than Yoshida.
I think this week, before Abreu comes back, will be big for determining the ROS playing time at 2B and DH. If Hamilton can prove he has even a modicum of offensive value and Yoshida continues to disappoint with the bat, there is no reason Yoshida should continue to have consistent playing time.
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u/RaymondSpaget 23h ago
Yoshida is very very clearly more skilled in the batter's box.
There's much more to baseball than what happens in the batter's box.
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u/Traditional_Half842 22h ago
So you think the defensive dropoff from Hamilton on the bench outweighs the offensive dropoff of having Hamilton in the lineup instead of Yoshida? Additionally - this is the worst stretch we've ever seen Yoshida go through; he most likely won't get worse and there's plenty of reason to believe with more ABs he can return to form. I dunno why anyone would think Hamilton has any more upside as a hitter.
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u/RaymondSpaget 23h ago
Hamilton: 3.2 bWAR in 513 PAs
Yoshida: 2.7 bWAR in 1,110 PAs
Hamilton has been more than twice as valuable over "the past 3 years".
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u/fliffcounter 22h ago
Hamilton and Yoshida both suck at hitting, but Hamilton is a very good fielder and base runner. Hamilton’s inclusion in the lineup gives us more options, Yoshida gives us less.
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u/Traditional_Half842 22h ago
Pretending that Yoshida and Hamilton are equal hitters is crazy. These are there career splits against RHP:
Yoshida: .294/.345/.451
Hamilton: .222/.287/.358
If you believe Yoshida's last 2 months is just who he is going to be as a hitter going forward, then fine he should never see the field again. But that same line of thinking would mean the team should've cut Trevor Story at the end of May and moved on from Rafaela after last year. I hope the org looks at the hitter's full body of work and doesn't project their success based solely on his last 70 PAs.
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u/fliffcounter 22h ago
I’m just not annoyed to see Hamilton in the lineup, because I know it means we get solid defense at second base and Cedanne in center.
I’m really bothered by Yoshida in the lineup right now either, but when Wilyer comes back It’ll be annoying when one of the four outfielders has to sit so he can get at bats.
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u/Traditional_Half842 22h ago
That's irrelevant; that's because Hamilton plays defense while Yoshida DH's. What is relevant is the dropoff between these players and their alternative. The dropoff if Yoshida plays instead of Hamilton is slightly worse 2B defense (however worse Rafaela is than Hamilton at 2B) and worse CF defense (however worse Duran is than Rafaela at CF - although I do think CF is Duran's best defensive position even if he's not quite as good as Rafaela there). The dropoff when Hamilton plays instead of Yoshida is the gap between their bats. I personally think Yoshida's bat has enough upside (he has over an .820 OPS against RHP going into this season) completely outweighs the defensive impact of Hamilton. And frankly I'd rather have Hamilton off the bench because he's an elite pinch runner. He doesn't get on base enough as a hitter to have a huge impact on the bases, but he can pinch run for better hitters (like Yoshida) in late game situations and have a big impact there.
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u/sully9614 pizza 1d ago edited 1d ago
Any lineup with Rafaela at CF is automatically better than him at 2nd