r/rugbyunion • u/kdog_1985 Australia • 3d ago
Can someone explain why NZ and SA trying to reduce the importance of the Championship?
Right now we are looking at the strongest comp we've seen possibly ever seen in the south? This decision is looking more and more stupid every week.
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u/Ok-Perception-3129 3d ago
It really is dumb. The extended NZ v South Africa tour should have taken place at the same time as the Lions Tour. This would have prevented disruption to the RC and NZ then could have avoided France B and South Africa could have avoided the Barbarians, Italy B and Georgia.
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u/PolarBear091 Bath 3d ago
Problem is… then it is only every 12 years that they’ll tour each other- NZ can’t tour SA in 2029 because the Lions will be touring NZ, and S.A. can’t tour NZ in 2033 because they’ll be hosting the Lions. 2037 is the first year this could be possible if they only choose to tour during Lions years.
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u/Connell95 🏆 “Biggest Hack, Anti-SH Chip-on-Shoulder Poster” 3d ago
Yeah, if they really want these, that would have made a million times more sense for everyone.
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u/Slipperytitski 3d ago
Plus there was 3 weeks without rugby here between last france test and first RC test
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u/Flyhalf2021 South Africa 3d ago
Literally man, this competition was always going to be good once we got some proper coaches in place. I still remember the tri nations when we had Nick Mallet, Rod McQueen and John Hart coaching the sides.
Hell, I would scrap that June series to put in extra matches against Japan and Fiji for an extended Rugby Championship.
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u/Michaelangelo56 New Zealand 3d ago
Idk we could just have it in one country rotate it between countries and do a knockout tournament add more teams too. Just to rip the bandaid of instead of waiting for the teams to get up to our level
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Why do that when NZ and SA can take the Cricket route and just restrict the games.
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u/Narapoia_the_1st South Africa 3d ago
It's the only way it would make sense if it was expanded, but the ticket receipts are the issue right. SA vs Japan in Aus or NZ isn't going to sell out, and the ticket prices would potentially be less than SARU could charge for sold out games in SA.
ETA I don't know how you'd get the bigger unions with bigger fanbases to lose out on home ticket sales for every 3 of 4 years. Even with proportional revenue sharing of gate receipts I'm not sure how it can be made to make sense economically.
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u/Michaelangelo56 New Zealand 2d ago
There is one way, people aren't gonna like it though. How about we host it in Saudi Arabia or Qatar or UAE and get that oil money
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u/Narapoia_the_1st South Africa 2d ago
Yep, could work though how does the climate there work with rugby. The whole stadium would need to be air conditioned.
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u/Michaelangelo56 New Zealand 2d ago
The climate would be shit and the stadiums would be air conditioned but we could work around stuff like that and even then I think it would be a good idea just because we could use it as a jumping off point too keep it like that every year if it starts getting real traction since sanzaar will see the worth in it and we could take it too somewhere more better for the fans and the competition
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u/_bort_simpson_ Australia 3d ago
Id like to see one more team added to make it 5 nations, then every team will get two home and away games each year.
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u/Michaelangelo56 New Zealand 2d ago
I'd like that but I'd rather go with my idea I'm tired of waiting for uruguay etc to get up to our level I'd rather speed up the process
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u/Band_Of_Bros Stormers 3d ago
Delusions of grandeur
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u/Band_Of_Bros Stormers 3d ago edited 3d ago
Seriously though. Not sure any of the fans actually prefer the tours. We play a mini tour 2 of 3 years anyway in the TRC. Just more short sightedness from rugby "bosses"
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u/comradekaled Blues 3d ago
The thought of a Springbok/All Black tour makes me hard, but at most it should be once a world cup cycle. Maybe once a decade, or even only when the Lions are in Oz. Have the Championship every year and a tour as a rare occasion
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u/Matters_Nothing 3d ago
Are they going to be old school tours. Like a lions tour? Playing super and urc sides also? Otherwise they are sacrificing 3 tests = $$
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u/Mampoer Wrrrrrrrrong Turn! 3d ago
Most fans I've spoken to in person definitely favours tours.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Yes I would take that over watching the ABs beating the Wallabies for the 23rd year in a row for sure.
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u/Tim-TheToolmanTaylor Highlanders 4h ago
Its just money and will become a regular thing when South Africa leaves and joins the 6 nations in a couple of years
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u/k0bra3eak Doktor Erasmus 3d ago
Money
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Money?
What money? It's a development tours, with development teams. Who's paying the Saffers ticket prices to watch development teams?
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u/rosemary-mair-for-NZ Hawke's Bay 3d ago
Merits of the tour aside are you seriously suggesting that an SA vs ABs test series won't be taken seriously lol that's delusional what are you on about
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Who's going to take it seriously?
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u/CoryTrevor-NS Italy 3d ago
Seriously? Literally the biggest rivalry in rugby, and you’re wondering whether they’re going to take it seriously LOL
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Biggest at the moment.
Things change, say NZ or SA sink, will it be just as important?SA supporters say rSsie can only be judged on his 2 WC, so how does this be come more important?
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u/rosemary-mair-for-NZ Hawke's Bay 3d ago
Do you actually not know anything about rugby. Have you just started following it this week or something?
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
10 years ago SA weren't on NZ's radar. Now it's historic.
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u/showusyourfupa Warriors 3d ago
The 1996 tour to SA series win was one of the greatest All Blacks achievements in history, as well as one of their best ever sides. SA has always been on NZs radar.
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u/rosemary-mair-for-NZ Hawke's Bay 3d ago
10 years ago SA weren't on NZ's radar.
What the fuck are you talking about???
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Yea this guy is an idiot. People I know still regularly bring up how awesome the 1994 tour was.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Were you even a rugby fan 10years ago?
It was all blacks and OZ. Look at how SA were doing.
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It was all blacks and Aus? Why do you think they didn't want to get rid of the Bledisloe, it NZs biggest money spinner.
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u/Kappaloop Stormers 3d ago
Wait are you trolling? I honestly can’t fathom how someone could say that unless you are
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
This is easily the dumbest thing you have said so far. Springbok tours to NZ were huge events when they happened going back to when I was a kid in the 90s and if you ask someone older than me even before then.
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u/rosemary-mair-for-NZ Hawke's Bay 3d ago
Okay yeah you're fully living in your own weird reality lol
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Nope SA and NZ are.
And if you think the tours will stay in SA and NZ you'll be in for a rough surprise.
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u/rosemary-mair-for-NZ Hawke's Bay 3d ago
I get that you don't want these tours to be popular and successful because that's bad for Aus and the rugby championship but I don't think deluding yourself into thinking they are going to be development tours that nobody cares about is going to help you in any way.
There's a reason the boards and broadcasters are frothing over this idea lol they will be massive money makers.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
We'll see who watches.
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 3d ago
You know nothing. There was a period of about 10 years yes from the late 90s to the late 00s where gen x pundits in NZ were starting to question (not stating outright) whether Aussie was the new primary rival and not SA. That was based off of the isolation period, the erratic results of early professional era Bokke and the rise of Aussie rugby in the late 70s through the early 00s. It was largely a Gen X vs Boomer + Silent generation argument.
Post the 2007 rwc win and more importantly the 2009 3Ns win and the parallel drop of the Wobs, this challenge to the status quo (from a kiwi perspective at least) has been completely put to bed and then some with the Bokkes status in the eyes of Kiwis returning to being an unchallenged number 1 rivalry (with Ireland arguably claiming the Wob spot for us in recent years).
You talk about 10 years ago the rivalry was the Wobs - it absolutely was not. Yes, literally in 2015 the Wobs were the bigger threat and there was a brief period in 2010-11 where we certainly enjoyed beating you more than anyone else (because of the 3 amigos) but the hallowed rivalry was still the Bokke
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u/Puzzleheaded_Quiet70 3d ago
3 Amigos? Tell us more!
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u/GingerByte23 Hurricanes 3d ago
No, it's not a development series.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago edited 3d ago
So rassie, a coach that doesn't take the RC seriously will take a three game series, a year before a WC, seriously because it's NZ? GL with that.
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u/whalebeefhooked223 the real jaco johan 3d ago edited 1d ago
I mean he’s taken every game against New Zealand seriously, plus a whole load of others. He also def takes the rugby championship seriously, he just headges his bets
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u/zakg1994 Hurricanes 3d ago
I’m not sure but I’m not a fan of it. I think we need to stick together with the countries who want to play with us annually and don’t feel like they’ll accept to leave to the northern hemisphere at the first available opportunity
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u/Connell95 🏆 “Biggest Hack, Anti-SH Chip-on-Shoulder Poster” 3d ago
Money, arrogance, and short-term thinking.
It’s a real pity – basically gutting a tournament for the foreseeable, just as it’s really hitting its stride.
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u/warbastard Australia 3d ago
So many of the world’s problems boil down to the three things you mentioned.
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u/WCRugger 3d ago
I had a NZ poster mention that playing each team playing one another 2 every year makes things stale and that this will bring some mystery back. I pointed out that these 2 tours would mean the Boks and ABs will play each other more than at present.
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u/treacletart284 Newcastle Falcons 3d ago
Is it going to be a truncated TRC like it is in World Cup years next year, or are they binning it off entirely? Seems like a surefire way to set the finances of RA and the UAR on fire to me like, unless they tour each other to try and make up the difference
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u/AdamLocke3922 Australia 3d ago
I say we just get the home nations down for a tour, since they won’t be able to tour NZ or SA. Maybe they can combine into some sort of super team, named after a non-native animal. Maybe let them play a few Super Rugby sides. Should be pretty good money.
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u/needle_hurts Sharks 3d ago
It's so stupid. I'm not saying the tour won't be fun and that I won't enjoy it. But RC is just so much better on the whole. The two test tours are great. You get the back to back and with the way things are going, every country will be tough to win two away games in.
Now the SA vs NZ tour will make loads of money, which is the only reason they're actually doing it. Someone mentioned doing it during the Lions tour. That'd be great! I would be more clunky, but if that also rotated it'd be so much fun. So Lions vs Aus, and at the same time NZ vs SA. Then Lions vs NZ, and SA vs Aus. And Lions vs SA, and Aus vs NZ (MEGA BLEDISLOE). Each team would play two in a row and so they could play one at home and one away.
So far, this is the first time you could argue the RC (excluding tri nations) is better from a competitive standpoint than the 6N. So of course with rugby still determined to shoot itself in the foot, we're changing it next year for tRAdiTioN. Fucking idiots
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u/koevoetbattalion 3d ago
Explain.
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u/JackoFrisky William Wallice/ Fraser’s Pornstashe 3d ago
The All Blacks will embark on an extended, eight-match tour of South Africa, including three Test matches, marking the first time in 30 years this kind of tour has taken place.
A new global tournament, the Rugby Nations Championship, begins in 2026, featuring teams from both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres
The traditional Rugby Championship will be halved or absent entirely in 2026 to accommodate these significant new fixtures.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
I'm up voting the info, not my enjoyment of said info!
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u/JackoFrisky William Wallice/ Fraser’s Pornstashe 3d ago
Yeah, I had to google it, didn’t know it buggered with the Rugby Championship with how much was going on next year.
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u/WCRugger 3d ago
Will it? The Nations Championship will run in the July (3 games) and November (4 games) windows. The RC runs though August-September. Got a link?
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u/Bloodbathandbeyon Bovine University alumni 2007 3d ago edited 3d ago
Fuck this. I despise the Boks with every essence of my being. ( The Boks not South Africans) This tour is going to be so toxic
I did not want this. Is this for a certain demographics( oh we used to live in SA when it was “good”) benefit?
We fucked over Australia and Argie for this?
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u/Sponge_Bond Bulls 3d ago
Is this for a certain demographics( oh we used to live in SA when it was “good”) benefit?
Bro don't tell me you are asking if this is only for those horrible stains of our country just because it's a tour and they stopped prior to the late 90s
That's a pretty sensitive and rough accusation to make for the sake of it man.
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u/Bloodbathandbeyon Bovine University alumni 2007 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was referring to our boomers. Sorry mate I should have specified
I should know my olds lived it up in Hillbrow? For close to a decade in the 1970s.
A lot of old Kiwis reminisce of the old days in SA quite fondly.
New Zealand today actually is pretty racist country. It’s sad how far for David Lange and the Labour Party’s ideals we have fallen. ( David Lange in my estimation is our second best pm after that Australian Micheal Joseph Savage )
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u/Yama_retired2024 1d ago
Yeah they are combining the 6 Nations with the Rugby Championship plus 2 invitational teams, one is Japan.. not clear who the other is
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 3d ago
Good. That sounds way more fun than the largely stale rugby championship. Just because this year has been solid so far doesn't mean the competition overall hasn't been poor in many years.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 1d ago
When you intentionally sink your closest playing competition, don't be getting upset when NZs standard drops.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Eh? What do you mean by that?
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 1d ago
I mean, this will have a detrimental impact on Australian rugby as it will mean a lot less competitive top tier rugby for them. It will weaken Argentina aswell.
Note how Australia and Argentina do at WCs.
Meanwhile NZ will get great at playing SA, and that's it.
NZ and SA are essentially going to weaken their direct competition in their sphere, and all that will essentially do in the long run is weaken themselves.
All for a pay day that will diminish because the tour is now happening every second year and will grow old very fast.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Australian rugby weakened itself by completely failing to launch a successful national competition not once but twice and fielding terrible national teams for years. That ain't NZs fault.
We can only support mediocrity for so long.
NZ and SA will get better by more consistently playing better teams than Aus, not the reverse.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 1d ago edited 1d ago
So if the Currie cup is so successful why is it facing a r300 million debt. If the NPC is so successful why is it running at a 5 million dollar loss, and declining viewership numbers.
Australia was in a black hole with the creation of the NRC, they're not anymore. Is it any surprise our poor financial position coincided with our drop in rankings. Maybe ominous for SA and NZ.
As for supporting mediocrity. NZ has lost to Argentina 4 times in the last 5 years. They have lost to SA 7 times out of the last 9 , maybe NZ aren't as strong as what they believe themselves to be.
You will play one team alot, it won't make you better especially if one of those teams weakens.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago edited 1d ago
Financial success is only one measure. And they are far from the only organization struggling a bit financially post covid.
The Currie Cup created enough depth of talent for them to win back to back world cups in the professional era. Much like how the NPC did that for NZ. That is their success.
And both competitions are subsided by the union using money from their national teams. Which is the smart thing to do because they need to invest in future players to maintain that success and continue to earn a lot of money.
Australia has been struggling for depth for years.
Also it's laughable thinking a couple of bad years for the ABs is anywhere near the same thing as not having won the Bledisloe in 22 years, the Rugby Championship in 23 years, and the World Cup in 26.
Also I'm not sure why you are fixating on this one SA tour. Isn't the point of the changes to have more games against the northern hemisphere teams? That's not "you will play one team a lot*".
*Alot isn't a word.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 1d ago
Currie cup is also bankrupting SARU, as is NPC, it's only going to get worse when NRL gets a second team in NZ.
Australia's issues with depth isn't the development of players, it's the retention of them in the sport. Thus the removal of the international laws.
NZ have basically traded the strongest rugby competition in the world for playing one team because they wanted a payday, say what you will, that's all this is!
But how will they generate finances when no one is watching because the tour means nothing for anyone outside of those 2 countries?
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u/Sponge_Bond Bulls 3d ago
Am I upset that the TRC will be impacted by the newly created tour, yes?
But I won't lie, an 8 match tour between us and the Kiwis still sounds absolutely amazing.
Nothing gets me going like a traditional Rugby tour against the provinces, followed by a best of 3 test series.
It being detrimental to TRC is the obvious glaring issue
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
The pure arrogance of SA and NZ rugby.
They have just shown, they arent above Argentina or Australia.
Tour away, when no one is watching in 8 years, that's on you guys.
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u/Sponge_Bond Bulls 3d ago
I'm not sure what you want me to say, mate. I spesifically stressed that I'm upset it affects TRC.
But the concept still excites me.
Tour away, when no one is watching in 8 years, that's on you guys.
In no world will this not be financially beneficial for both teams, your emotional response does not negate the fact that it will definitely rake in the dollarydoos.
The pure arrogance of SA and NZ rugby.
We are not ditching TRC because we believe Australia and Argentina are shit. We are creating a pretty unique series here between the traditional rivals of the sport.
You're acting like it's some cardinal sin and "fuck you" to merely be excited by it.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago edited 3d ago
Right now I live in Ireland, as a Wallabies supporter I'm engaged to the RC, my mates are engaged because it's SANZAAR (sh), they may in the future look at the results, they won't care about them though because it ain't a tour they can engage in.
You are choosing your short term interests over the interests of the SH good. You want to do it, thats on you, but it ain't going to benifits anyone in the south in the long term
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u/Sponge_Bond Bulls 3d ago
Right now I live in Ireland, as a Wallabies supporter I'm engaged to the RC, my mates are engaged because it's SANZAAR (sh), the may in the future look at the results, they won't care about them though because it ain't a tour they can engage in.
It's purely anecdotal. The Boks and NZ creating a tour isn't some coin flip of a decision made because "haha, Aus and Arg are shit." The men in the room actually look at data, eyeballs on screen, and potential revenue. Your friends being engaged has nothing to do with anything. You might find a household down the road that wants to watch the Springboks and ABs play.
You don't are choosing your short term interests over the interests of the SH good. You want to do it , thats on you, but it ain't going to benifits anyone in the south in the long term
It's going to benefit our unions, who are also cash strapped. I'm sorry, but you are creating these phantom arguments just because you don't like the concept. Based off what will this only be viable in the short term?
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago edited 3d ago
The whole idea has no base in fact.
You understand the idea of this tour will be to move to increase ethe financial incentives eg a 3 game tour in the US, of in the UK.
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u/Sponge_Bond Bulls 3d ago
Yes, I understand?
Just get over the fact that some people disagree with you.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
So you don't even want a tour in your country?
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u/No-Bison-5397 Melbourne Rebels 3d ago
Don’t worry mate. Disappointed that the RC is slowly moving towards death but I get it.
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u/Technerd88 New Zealand 3d ago
I mean, the fingers cannot be soley pointed at SA and ABs.
If Australia has been competitive last decade or two in TRC, we wouldn't have this conversation. But here we are.
Nobody knew TRC was going to be this good until this year. And AUS has been a resurgence good on you guys. But one off year does not dictate a decade+ of performance
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Australia came 1st one out of the last 10 years and second 4 times........
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u/showusyourfupa Warriors 3d ago
Second means absolutely nothing in a 3 or 4 team tournament ..., cmon.
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u/AdamLocke3922 Australia 3d ago
Australia has been just as competitive as SA has dude. Look at the results. Australia’s decline only really started post 2019 WC.
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u/PicknDrive135 Australia 2d ago
Australia has beaten RSA more times in the last decade than they've beaten us....
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u/Whit135 3d ago
Settle down. Yous lost a lions series and won once in south africa. That might be a great result for aus bt the wallabies are 3 of 6 in test matches this year. 50% isnt exactly world beating, chest thumping, we deserve the world, wer gonna conquer all before us, Wallabies are back - good. Maybe 50% gets u excited bt if it does then uve answered ur own question in this post.
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u/Michael_stipe_miocic Chiefs 3d ago
I’m for it as well. Something different for the modern era that could be amazing. The TRC will be there again in the future
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u/Whit135 3d ago
Me too I cant wait! I think the aussies are upset because the might finally be good again, which if so has taken 10 years. And thats no given that they are.
Give me a 4 test tour of South Africa over year 27 of defending the bledisloe again or whatever it is, or either of us winning the trc for the 11th year in a row..
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u/I_AM_YURI Australia 3d ago
What? We haven't been shit for 10 years...it's been since Eddie fucked us at the world cup, so like 1 year.
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u/coupleandacamera Crusaders 3d ago
Largely because they think the money will be better. I suppose a lot of these choices were also made around the WC, Jones and McLenin were at their peak as they collaborated to burn down Australian rugby to the ashes and wee on them. Is say NZ/SA made an early and fairly arrogant call to protect their income not thinking RA could save the ship. Argentina just get unlucky, they havnt been given enough say despite becoming a proper force in the comp.
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u/GingerByte23 Hurricanes 3d ago
As nice as TRC is, it doesn't really make money, and both unions need money.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Ticket prices could be an issue in SA
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u/GingerByte23 Hurricanes 3d ago
And why do you think the ticket prices are high? Cause they need money.
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u/Ares47nz 3d ago
The All Blacks touring South Africa will be huge.
Not sure why that cant be at the end of the rugby championship though?
'96 - didn't the 4 tests there include tri-nations games?
If I were running the show - I'd bring Japan in. It may take 10 years but eventually they would become competitive.
As you say, we finally get the comp running and the NZRU pull this shit.
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u/dorado-sea 3d ago
Could it be that neither country will ever host a World Cup again? This is the next best thing for SA and NZ fans. Extended tours also allow for a narrative to build. Lots of additional content and engagement for NZR+ and supersport to profit from.
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u/Still-District-6149 3d ago
The AB aura takes another hit with a particularly shocking lack of strategic nous and player skill. The back line looked like some kind of abomination, while I don't think they won a single aerial contest. The all Black's have become that team that run others back into form and both the books and wallabies will be locking their lips
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u/Thorazine_Chaser Crusaders New Zealand 3d ago
I don’t think either union are trying to reduce the importance of the RC. Reducing its frequency makes it more interesting IMO.
The RC has been a bit stale for a while, I would prefer to see it played biannually to allow for SH tours to return again. It makes the calendar more varied and the marketing potential in a full tour is much higher I expect so it’s a win for the unions as well as the fans.
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u/mossy1989136 Leinster 3d ago
Pure madness. This RC is always great but this year is super exciting, 4 teams with a win each after 2 rounds. I'm buzzin for it. Better than the Lions tour.
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u/shadyFS91 Australia 2d ago
Arrogance and greed really. The “big boys” want to take their ball and go play else where because they see the rest (Argentina and Aus) as bringing them down.
I can understand the boks considering their SR move, but NZ seem to be doing everything within their power to move away from Aus. Would love to see how things play out once bridges have been burnt and a second NZ league team comes into town.. will be quite interesting
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 3d ago
Because a full NZ-RSA tour is the biggest, most prized pinnacle in rugby for either country and we haven’t had one in 29 years (if we don’t count the extended 3Ns years). They’re fucking awesome
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u/General-Repeat-3315 Scotland Australia 3d ago
It's mainly arrogance. South Africa has been the best team in the world for the last eight years, so it's earned, but the All Blacks still think that they have the aura they once had. They don't. Not saying that they aren't in the top 3-4 best teams in the world, but they don't have the aura they once did. Any of the top sides can beat them on the day. Argentina has now beaten them in back to back years - which is great for rugby and doesn't mean that the ABs are a bad side! But they kind of act like Aus and Arg aren't enough competition for them. They're willing to spit in the faces of their other southern compatriots for short term monetary gain, instead of bolstering the competition that they already have! It's just really disappointing as a wallabies fan because selfishly, it won't help them out. Being Scottish, I love the six nations, but when TRC comes around, it really feels like the big boys have come to play. Six nations is beautiful, but TRC just feels more intense to me. Eden park, Cake tin, Ellis park, Suncorp, BA. It just screams that the mighty, World Cup winning Springboks, All Blacks and Wallabies have come to play! And now the Pumas are there, having beaten all sides last year and the Lions last month! It's just a different vibe that I will miss immensely if they get rid of it.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
I don't even think the monetary gain will be that big. The tours will be out of each other's time zones.
And won't have the collective effect a SANZAAR trophy has.
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u/Technerd88 New Zealand 3d ago
I can't say BOK is the best team in the world last 8 years, they have been the best team hands down last few years. Their consistency is not really great until 2023 - 2024. You cannot discredit Ireland taking the number one spot either.
But yes, it's mostly money and AB and BOK's arrogance and national championships about to come into play as well.
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u/DCI_Tom_Barnaby_ Australia 3d ago
Misguided self importance and New Zealand have sold their soul to private equity who need their pound of flesh
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u/West_Put2548 3d ago
as a fan I'd love to see Japan and Fiji added and make it one game each....that would add an extra game for a touring NH team....ever lions year have an old fashioned tour ( when not involved with lions) ..nh can play developing nations and France can do what they want
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u/just1parmy 3d ago
Is it just a lions style tour? I can understand the desire for the money, but surely they aren't going to be anywhere near as fruitful.
The thing that makes lions tours so (commercially) successful is 1) the rarity of them, 2) the uniqueness of the team and 3) the huge contingent of travelling British and Irish. Boks and All Blacks already play each other twice a year and there doesn't seem to be a large traveling contingent.
I'm sure this tour will get some more people travelling, but the offering isn't too dissimilar to TRC that I can't see how it's going to go as well. Club games make sense when the lions are trying to gel and create combinations, but the Boks and All Blacks don't need this as much.
I can understand it from a historical rivalry perspective (and if your a saffa or a kiwi), but it leaves a sour taste in the mouth for what it does for TRC. I'm not sure if there's plans beyond 2030, but it'll be interesting to see if it makes the commercial sense
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u/Lakapi 2d ago
It’s all to do with money because both nations are bleeding whatever income/revenues/funds they have to accomodate the failures of their franchises/regions to be self-sustainable. Instead of going the way of the French and believing in your historical local club/provinces competitions to fund itself and pay the income of your national players. But instead the obsession with winning “Bill” is more important than the funds that’s been bleeding down the drainage every year.
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u/binzoma Hurricanes 2d ago
I actually think it increases the importance of the championship, playing every year is a lot more chances to win which makes it less important to win any individual tournament
but yeah its clearly a move to get ahead of the world calendar that will be announced leading up to or immediately after the next world cup and make sure that NZ/SA can keep playing regularly on top of NZ/Aus continuing to play regularly. if not it's the dumbest thing in the fucking world
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u/Recent_Extreme3165 1d ago
Saffas want money and NZ feel they are weaker as they don't play SA enough
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u/EnthusiasmHefty6453 3d ago
it’s not stupid. It’s just business, SARU and NZR are tired of subsidizing RA and prefer to keep the revenue that they generate to themselves, Australias are paying the price for being ungrateful always complaining about 1am matches that no one watches, not knowing that the Earth is round.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Subsidizing? RA is currently running at a profit. Where's the profits in a tour no-one out side of 2 countries want to watch.
Scratch that; one country, the other will be asleep.
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u/Trespassers__Will Wellington Lions 3d ago
RA is currently running at a profit.
Only because of the Lions tour. But I do hope with the Lions tour, plus the Wallabies looking stronger and a home World Cup looming that all that results in an increase in interest and therefore revenue over the next few years.
Scratch that; one country, the other will be asleep.
No idea what the revenue sharing agreement is, but I assume NZ will make most of its profit from these tours in 2030 when South Africa comes here.
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u/doomchimp Reds 3d ago
NZR subsidising RA? I want some of what you're smoking.
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u/Technerd88 New Zealand 3d ago
I believe NZR is paying RA $8M a year for Super Rugby.
And a bit of broadcast split but this year deal has been revised to god know whatever since the details all private for now.
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u/Whit135 3d ago
You wanna know why? Because only nz or south africa have won the trc in the last 9 years and nz has won 7 of those 9. Aussie have only won it 4 times in 28 years with tge last 10 years ago. Argees obviously havent won it.
Its basically lost some of its importance with the same results year after year. We need change in the calendar from the usual and those wheels have been in motion long before this year when aus appears to be finally resurgent.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago edited 3d ago
And who won it 10 years ago?
Scotland hasn't won a 6 nations in 26 years should they, italy, be removed?
Maybe we should cease the Bledisloe noting its been 20 years since we won that!
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u/No-Bison-5397 Melbourne Rebels 3d ago
The six nations is a century old. The RC is less than 30 years
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u/Minigrappler Argentina 3d ago
For a competition to be a century old, you just need have to not kill it before that. Isn't that hard.
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u/No-Bison-5397 Melbourne Rebels 3d ago
The 6 Nations has heaps of economies that the Rugby Championship simply cannot achieve im the foreseeable future: away fans, cost of flights, time zones.
I think the RC is a great competition and it looks to be improving. Believe me, there are few people as pro Argentina as me. But the 6 nations has a lot of things which the RC, born out of early professional arrangements in the 90s being a grab bag of the best Rugby Union teams cannot have.
I don’t think we should be sentimental about it. It’s a competition between four great nations that serves our collective interest as a counterweight to British/French/Irish interests that don’t align with our own.
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u/Person306 Australia 2d ago
Aussie have only won it 4 times in 28 years with the last 10 years ago
And South Africa have only won it 5 times in 28 years, and didn't win it for 10 years from 2009 till 2019...
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u/Technerd88 New Zealand 3d ago edited 3d ago
TRC has been uncompetitive for the last 10 years or so, with ABs spamming the trophy, it loses its winning appeal.
And the most important of all. MONEY they probably worked out the money they get paid from for the tours > money in TRC. It's probably as simple as that
The resurgence of WAL and ARG as of this year seems to make it more exciting, which brings in more eyeballs.
Not many people outside of AUS and ARG supporters cared about those games in TRC or bothered to tune in. Until today.
I myself have booked tickets to see that game live, given their performances, which I never do.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia 3d ago
Well, it's a great idea then to remove 3 competitors that may beat you, for 1!
Genius idea.
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u/Charlie_Runkle69 3d ago
I mean Australia and India are actively trying to reduce the important of test cricket by refusing to tour the smaller nations for test cricket more than once every 7 or 8 years in favour of 5 match series against themselves and England (I leave England out because they actually play test cricket away against the other sides far more often). This stuff happens a lot in sport. I would agree it's not ideal but I think it's likely it will only be 2026 where TRC is affected, I think by 2030 we will see a change whereby we won't play a NH side and just play SA and perhaps a game against Fiji or Samoa as a warm up.
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u/Popamole Hurricanes 3d ago
We can't keep losing to Argentina if we don't play them.