r/rugbyunion • u/SNPpoloG Australia • 1d ago
Video Kolbe tackle that injures James O’Connor Spoiler
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u/APoolShark Australia 1d ago
Alright Saffas, think it’s your turn to post the next match clip
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u/CapeTownyToniTone I still believe in Libbok 5h ago
It's a shame, I thought we took the loss really well last week and I'm really growing to love the Wobbs as a 2nd team. Please don't make me agree with the BIL supporters about you lot being whiners.
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 1d ago
Isn't that essentially a hip drop?
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u/Wacky_Ohana NSW Waratahs 1d ago
That's what I was thinking. And I'm not sure it is a reaction to the dropped ball as it doesn't look like he could even see that the ball was dropped at that point in time.
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u/SNPpoloG Australia 1d ago
He doesnt even look at the ball until after it hits his foot but people in here are convinced that Kolbe has the fastest reaction time in human history haha
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u/CapeTownyToniTone I still believe in Libbok 5h ago
Toes it out pretty well for an unintentional kick ay?
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 1d ago
I didn't even register that, to me it's so obvious that it was a dirty tackle that I wouldn't try and scrape together a reason for him doing it. Which sucks, cause I really like Colbe.
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u/ste_dono94 Leinster 1d ago
He's had grubby moments like that in a couple games
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u/Not-a-scintilla New Zealand 21h ago
Bro milks absolutely every contact that comes his way and then is instantly fine when play resumes. Awesome player but morally a wee bit dubious.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone I still believe in Libbok 5h ago
Yeah like the time he dived and uhh... when he... Um... I'm drawing a blank, but the pitch fork is already out so.
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u/ste_dono94 Leinster 5h ago
Forgot about his dive against Ireland actually, that was pathetic
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u/CapeTownyToniTone I still believe in Libbok 5h ago
the time he dived
I did not. Your man Sexton had a fair few dives in his time, I can point to 2 from Beirne too. Far from grubby moments.
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u/foxepower Munster 1d ago
World class player forged in the dark arts of the Rassie era, would likely be a saint in any other team but definitely has bought into the “by any means possible” attitude
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u/capetonytoni2ne Misleading title 1d ago
Hahahaha did you miss an /s here? Would likely be a saint if he was playing for my team but now he's a grub.
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u/MildlySelassie 1d ago
Idiot here. Can someone explain which part is the problem? I see the arms wrapped around the waist, and then he pulls down. Where am I supposed to be looking to see what’s dirty?
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u/jeeeeroylenkins 1d ago
It’s the way he wraps around the lower limb and then basically drops his weight on it.
It’s a technique that’s known to cause lower leg/knee injuries because of the amount of torque the tackler puts on the joint.
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u/MildlySelassie 1d ago
Thanks!
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u/BloweringReservoir 1d ago
One of these put Brumbies hooker Lachie Lonergan out for a year, and Max Jorgensen out for most of SR this year.
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u/capetonytoni2ne Misleading title 1d ago
We're they penalised for those tackles? Should be outlawed soon, but it's currently legal, hey?
I'm not assuming Kolbe maliciously targeted JOC here, looks like JOC drops his knee first to get down to the dropped ball
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u/BloweringReservoir 1d ago
The tackles are legal in RU. They've also caused enough injuries in multiple sports to be banned. It was a hip drop tackle from Tate McDermott that took out Max Jorgensen. I don't think it was malicious either.
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u/gurrabeal 11h ago
It was also Tate that tackled Nos Lonergan that broke Nos’s ankle.
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u/BloweringReservoir 8h ago
I couldn't remember. It will need a law change to force a change in the tackling technique.
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u/reggie_700 Harbour Master 11h ago
These are illegal in the NRL and I think the NFL - are they allowed in Union?
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u/jeeeeroylenkins 9h ago
It’s a grey area… if you do “something” to intentionally injure, then that’s a sanction, however, the act of a hip drop tackle is in and of itself not illegal.
I’d say WR is tying itself in knots with all its penalising actions not outcomes / with intent without intent BS, and doesn’t know what to do.
Any rugby player worth their salt would know what they are doing, so avoiding a hip drop is doable.
As for Kolbe’s “he was attempting to kick the ball”, I’m very dubious, and he may not have had the intention to injure JOC, but he knew that the technique would get him down quickly.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone I still believe in Libbok 5h ago
Hip drop usually has the tackler dropping his weight first, no? Looks here like JOC drops first to get the ball and Kolbe follows him.
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u/jeeeeroylenkins 5h ago
Nah - not even close. Kolbe has wrapped his leg and is dropping backwards away from the direction that JOC is trying to run.
16 secs in the video and it’s clear as day.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
The hell is a hip drop?
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u/AnOdeToSeals 1d ago
Its when the tackler grabs someone from behind or the side and drops their weight/hips onto the ball carrier's legs. Its dangerous and can easily cause injuries which is why its banned.
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u/Impossible_Rise_5 8h ago
Just as a heads up to anyone about to read this whole thread.... don't bother.
Old mate knowitmall has it clearly explained to him with multiple examples and ignores all of them. Just nothing but ignorance. But, if you feel like diving in, go for it, it's an exercise in frustration.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Banned where exactly?
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u/SNPpoloG Australia 1d ago
NRL and NFL both banned it because they found it caused an insane number of knee injuries
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u/DeathclawTamer Ireland 1d ago
Same in RL Super League. A lot of torn ligaments and fractures. Got banned after I think 7 players were injured by hip drops badly in only a few weeks.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
So not rugby union then.
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u/SNPpoloG Australia 1d ago
rugby union players are made of the same tendons and ligaments as rugby league players
it currently being legal doesnt make it less dangerous
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
But it does make it not banned there...so I'm not sure the point of calling it a "hip drop" in this post when it's not banned in this game.
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u/Icy_Winner9761 Australia 1d ago
Hip drop describes the action not the law. Same with a spear tackle.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
That's nice...it's still not illegal or anything that I have ever seen mentioned during a rugby game.
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 1d ago
Its banned in New Zealand at the very least my bro, and its typically penalized under dangerous play laws.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Never seen it mentioned or penalized in any NPC game.
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 1d ago
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
So not the NPC or any other professional competition then. Amateur rugby that's just played for fun should be safer than pro games. It's common for amateur and professional to have variations in the rules.
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 1d ago
Yeah it is common for them to have different rules because community rugby is not governed by world rugby laws and the NPC is, but you were asking where its banned and that's where. It's also, as previously mentioned, penalizable under dangerous tackle laws.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
And you have an example of it being penalized under said dangerous tackle laws?
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u/k0bra3eak Doktor Erasmus 1d ago
Recently banned in NRL and NFL also banned it I believe
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
So not international rugby union then? Which means in this context it isn't banned.
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u/k0bra3eak Doktor Erasmus 1d ago
You just asked where it was banned. I'm not the one who brought hip drop tackles up. No it's not banned in Rugby Union yet, although I could see it be banned sooner rather than later it ended a few seasons in Suoer Rugby this year
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Yes and in this context that means where in rugby union is this banned...
If the clip was of someone doing something in an NBA game I wouldn't bring up a rule in Super Netball would I?
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u/reggie_700 Harbour Master 11h ago
Shit dude, relax and get offline for a bit.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 11h ago
If you have nothing relevant to contribute feel free to keep your opinion to yourself.
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u/Biggby72 Western Force 1d ago
Kinda what Darcy Swain got red carded against England a couple of years back
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u/AnOdeToSeals 1d ago
Its foul play same as as other dangerous tackles, like a high tackle.
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u/capetonytoni2ne Misleading title 1d ago
No it isn't? It will be soon, probably, but it's definitely not foul play under the current laws.
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u/AnOdeToSeals 23h ago
Is it not considered a dangerous tackle?
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u/Rock_man_bears_fan Misleading title 21h ago
Not by the laws of the game
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u/AnOdeToSeals 20h ago
But a lot of dangerous tackles are not literally in laws of the game? They will still be enforced as a dangerous tackle though.
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u/Rock_man_bears_fan Misleading title 19h ago
What dangerous tackles aren’t in the laws of the game? They specifically mention hits above the shoulder, tackles that start below the shoulder and ride up, playing the man without the ball, late hits and dropping a player on their head
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders 1d ago
Care to show me the law that states as such?
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u/jonpettas96 1d ago
Illegal tackle that was popular in NRL. Look it up, there’s some good explainers on YT. Until you see it in slow motion, you don’t realise how dangerous it is. Absolute short cut to dishing out ACL injuries.
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u/Demosthenes_theWise Canada 1d ago
Not sure, I have looked at this clip a dozen times, looks like he went down before Kolbe, i.e. was not Kolbe dropping his weight on him that dropped him, Kolbe seemed to follow. But tight call, would like to see a Nigel Owens video on this.
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 1d ago
To me its definitely the thigh contact higher up/at the hip that makes O'Connor collapse. I'd love to see Noigel Owns on this one too.
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u/capetonytoni2ne Misleading title 1d ago
Yeah JOC drops his knee to get down to the ball, Kolbe follows
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u/Douges Queensland Reds 10h ago
Ignorance here
I know in the NRL hip drops brought up much more often - do they just not happen that much in union?
It seems like one of those laws (outlawing hip drop tackles) that should be added to both codes
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 10h ago
Currently they're theoretically covered under law 9.20e, but I agree they need to be specifically named and added to the laws as illegal.
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u/Affectionate_Let1462 Munster 19h ago
In fairness he aims to kick the ball not tackle with the legs. But the outcome was the same unfortunately.
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 14h ago
Na man, Kolbe isn't even looking at the ball until it hits his foot.
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u/Recent_Extreme3165 13h ago
Are hip drops illegal in union? There was some discussion in the Super Rugby season that did a few knees/ankles
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u/Snoo_61002 New Zealand 13h ago
They're covered under dangerous tackle laws. World Rugby’s law text explicitly covers this behaviour even though “hip-drop” isn’t named in union: Law 9.20(e) states “A player must not drop their weight onto an opponent or target the lower limbs” (sanction: penalty).
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u/Recent_Extreme3165 13h ago
There you go... Have never seen it enforced. Unless blatant, I can't imagine a ref having the ability to pick that up, so maybe TMO needs to be called in for blatant foul play, I'm sure they already could.
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u/TurbulentTap6062 Australia 1d ago
Fortunately we only had 4 players injured in the second test. That’s honestly a great stat for us. Luck is on our side again!
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u/SNPpoloG Australia 1d ago
Missed every kick after this tackle
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u/iamuhtredsonofuhtred Sale Sharks 19h ago
Yeah he clearly wasn't comfortable after this. I don't know why Edmed didn't kick though.
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u/benny_boy Wales 15h ago
And he even went for a long range kick at a vital time in the match I couldn't believe what I was seeing!
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u/golden_teacup Australia 10h ago
Really unsure why they didn’t switch him out for edmed to kick at least after the second miss. I have mixed feelings about whether or not this should’ve been carded but 100% at the end of the day he shouldn’t have been playing as long as he did. If not for the score then at least for his leg
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u/Icy_Winner9761 Australia 1d ago
Leg injury videos are my least favorite videos.
Some people saying Kolbe trying to kick the ball? I dunno, even if he was that's getting a little close to kicking the ball out of someone's hands for my liking. Just a real awkward thing to do no matter what.
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u/Demosthenes_theWise Canada 1d ago
No don’t Kolbe tried to kick, would rather say both unbalanced in the tackle, looks like he lost balance as Kolbe was coming around him and both went down. But ugly regardless.
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u/Thedudewiththedog Super Rugby Arg/Aus/Jpn/Nzl/Rsa 1d ago
I was no joke thinking yesterday before the match "What if we had a 4-4 bench because we might get our backs bashed"
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u/MisterIndecisive England 1d ago edited 1d ago
Whether he meant it or not that's gotta be a card for the scissor tackle. It was very reckless and put JOC at risk of a serious knee injury
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u/capetonytoni2ne Misleading title 1d ago
I'm seeing so many terms for the first time in this thread. Is a scissor tackle illegal? Have you ever seen it penalised?
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u/SNPpoloG Australia 23h ago
scissor tackle is a soccer term
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u/MisterIndecisive England 23h ago
I saw some others call it a hip drop but I don't know if there's is an official term for it in rugby union. Either way wrapping your legs/body around the opponents like that is very reckless
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u/Demosthenes_theWise Canada 23h ago
Not sure whether it’s a hip drop. But hip drops are not illegal in Rugby Union.
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u/Woogabuttz North Harbour 21h ago
Hip drops aren’t specifically illegal in union but they can be penalized under the more general “dangerous play” laws.
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u/Wise_Rip_1982 15h ago
At minimum it would qualify as a trip. It's a brutal way to take someone down and is definitely intentional.
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u/capetonytoni2ne Misleading title 14h ago
A trip? He's in the process of tackling him, JOC drops the ball and then drops to fall on it, Kolbe goes to kick the ball (succeeds in toeing it away) and then drops with JOC. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills on this sub sometimes
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u/ifrgotmyname South Africa 21h ago
Don't really think any specific part of the tackel is illegal, very hard to try to find a fault apart from the fact that he landed on his ankle in an awkward manner
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u/stephanieaurelius President of the Tate McDermott fan club 1d ago
sttoooopppp injuuurrrring ourr plaaaaayyyyyaazzz
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u/mingsimon 1d ago
That’s a dangerous and unnecessary tackle
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u/lAllioli USA Perpignan 22h ago
This is legal but shouldn't be. It isn't Kolbe's or the ref's fault, but World Rugby's
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u/Zealousideal-Way2048 Australia & Wales 1d ago
Welcome to how the bokks play.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone I still believe in Libbok 5h ago
Good thing the Wobbs are squeaky clean, ey? It's a physical sport mate, he didn't Darcy Swain anybody, it was a clumsy tackle with a dropped ball that caused the injury, he wasn't leg trapping and hip dropping.
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u/InZim Jimmies 23h ago
Didn't Kolbe also slam a player's head into the ground in a tackle?
Edit: just found the replay and it was Kwagga Smith
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u/CapeTownyToniTone I still believe in Libbok 5h ago
Entirely legally (same as this) right? Seeing as you're a Saints fan, it took me 10 seconds to find a Courtney Lawes hip drop.
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u/Sudden-Eye801 1d ago
Blatant hip drop
Looks like they have been studying the Melbourne storm. Outlawed in league because it wrecks knees and ends careers
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u/Fast-Yesterday2060 England 1d ago
Didn’t catch the match - did this get penalised? Seems like it should have for essentially tripping the player
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 1d ago
I get what you're saying but these Judo style tackles are never penalised.
I sometimes wish they would penalise them, and would be interested to hear from a top referee as to why they're traditionally ignored.
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u/Jiffyrabbit Australia 1d ago
In the NRL in Aus it's a banned tackle and a yellow.
These tackles being legal is one of the few areas that Union is behind the curve with player safety.
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u/Fast-Yesterday2060 England 1d ago
I understand why the sling tackles like what happened on White are never penalised because you’re not using your feet - think it should be but that’s another matter.
Just think as soon as you’re using the legs to restrict movement with something like a trip it should be a penalty
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 1d ago
For what it's worth, I agree - (on both).
I've often wondered why these 'trips' are ignored so long as players also use their arms.
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u/SpoonSpatula South Africa 19h ago edited 19h ago
Just this week I was watching a George Gregan highlights video on youtube. Reminds me of that tackle of his on Lomu. I could easily see the ball carrying player's leg get mangled if it gets trapped at the wrong angle.
Here we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MKmid9yfYE
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u/simsnor South Africa 1d ago
I really wish people would post highlites instead of lowlites
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u/k0bra3eak Doktor Erasmus 1d ago
Nah this is how you know Aus are good again, when we're at each other's throats
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u/throwawayyyyyprawn Stormers 22h ago
I’m biased I’m South African, but I did watch this dozens of times and am struggling to see how so many people think this was intentional.
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u/Woogabuttz North Harbour 21h ago
I don’t think it was intentional but I do think once he dropped his ass down to pull the ball carrier down, he entered hip drop territory.
Looks like his body was just figuring out ways to get a bigger payer down in the moment.
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u/DonovanBanks South Africa 22h ago
Because SA = evil.
If these roles were reversed they be calling us whingers and crybaby’s.
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u/throwawayyyyyprawn Stormers 22h ago
I thought we’d moved past that it’s been 4 years since that lions tour but hey I’m happy so see Australian rugby back and that comes with the sledging I guess
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u/DonovanBanks South Africa 19h ago
Sledging I can handle. Being called cheats for stuff they’d happily do is pathetic.
I need to stop being so angry about this though. 😂
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u/SuspiciousVoice5563 Sharks 1d ago edited 1d ago
Edit: Actually seeing another comment and watching it again, I don’t think he tried to trip him and I think he attempted to kick the dropped ball. Still a a weird tackle and probably could’ve been penalty anyway.
Yea I don’t like it, I doubt he tried to injure him but that’s gotta be a penalty as he’s essentially tripped him.
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u/Horatio_Finglebry 1d ago
Hipdrop tackles like this have been outlawed in league for years. As usual, rugby is decades behind.
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u/Racingislyf 23h ago
That's a hip drop and an easy yellow in league. So easy to get injured from it.
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u/yoloswagtailwag 1d ago
Neutral opinion on this one - doesn't appear to be intentional. But could have been carded if the ref found it to be severe enough. I think it was a bit awkward from the moment he made the tackle with JOC still having one leg up. I think Kolbe was just trying to be intense and unfortunately got it wrong.
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u/v1akvark South Africa 22h ago
My biased opinion - I thought yesterday when I saw the replay that Kolbe planted his foot to give himself some leverage so he can swing him back, like you say, to be intense.
But it went horribly wrong with both of them being off balance.
I will go and watch some videos on hip drops and stuff that was outlawed in other sports that I don't watch. Always open to learning something.
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u/Demosthenes_theWise Canada 23h ago
Agreed, Kolbe went in awkward, tried to swing around. Seems also like JOC lost his balance first and pulled Kolbe down.
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u/Hicklethumb South Africa 19h ago
"If the ref found it" you could stop there and also point out 100x in the match where he also didn't.
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u/whoneedsmelons Stormers 1d ago
Looks more like a reaction to the dropped ball, he still shouldn't have done it though.
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u/JarlBorg101 Springboks 1d ago
I think his intention is to kick the ball but doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous play. That looks nasty :/
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u/LieutenantCardGames Hurricanes 5h ago
That should be a cardable offence man. That's obviously gonna injure like half the guys it happens to
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u/DingoSloth 1d ago
I think this was an accident. Van Staden’s effort on Wright in the first minute was absolutely deliberate. Dog act.
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u/jorgesan121 1d ago
Yeah that was grubby as, if he had rolled around there and it was looked at by TMO i would guess a card would have been issued.
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u/ganjajee15 1d ago
That should have been penalized. Should be cited now, that's so fucking dangerous
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u/adturnerr Masher Opoku-Fordjour 23h ago
Very unfortunate tackle, I think it should've been penalized for the judo style trip but they're rarely reffed
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u/Acrobatic_Swim4264 1d ago
The irony was he then ran into frosts shoulder to trigger a high tackle soon after. Having his cake and eating it.
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u/HjajaLoLWhy Crusaderders 1d ago
how did he see the ball from behind him and know where to kick?
Why did he not kick the ball, instead planting his heel to bring his weight over oconnors knee? The fact he connects with the ball looks far more coincidental than deliberate.
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u/Apart_Description444 1d ago edited 1d ago
Surprised he kept playing after that looked fucking painful. I was also in awe of Taniela Tupou catching and kicking that ball with a dislocated finger.
Edit: forgot Suallii was of the field