r/science • u/calliope_kekule Professor | Social Science | Science Comm • 1d ago
Health In a survey of 3,389 adults, those who first used cannabis to self-medicate (e.g. for anxiety or depression) later consumed more THC and reported more paranoia, anxiety, and depression.
https://mentalhealth.bmj.com/content/28/1/e301810?rss=1293
u/Robert_Grave 1d ago
Nothing riles up r/science more than a post about the adverse affect of long term weed use.
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u/thrawtes 1d ago
Without fail the top comment is always going to be how the study must be nonsense because weed is awesome actually.
Maybe they're right too, maybe weed is a wonder drug only kept down by the man at Big Alcohol not wanting any competition. It's hard for a layman to reach any sort of conclusion when the only science allowed to stand on this issue is explicitly positive to the substance.
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u/putsch80 1d ago
I don’t think it’s really a “weed god” or “weed bad” thing. More of an issue that weed just temporarily masks the symptoms of whatever is causing the PTSD, anxiety, depression, etc., just like what alcohol does and what a lot of antidepressants do. The underlying cause is still there, and so once stopping weed (or whatever other drug is used to mask the symptoms), then those symptoms show right back up. And, since a person builds tolerance to THC (again, just like many other drugs) it takes more and more marijuana usage to achieve the same masking effect.
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u/a_nony_mouse727 1d ago
Is that not the purpose of ALOT of medicine? Really any OTC medicine is only masking symptoms until your body beats off whatever illness it's battling. Dayquil isn't physically killing the cold in you. The same way weed, or other antidepressants, masks the symptoms so you can cope enough to get to therapy, TMS, etc.
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u/putsch80 1d ago
Agreed. Problem is that a lot of people (dare I say most?) who use weed for those kind of symptoms skip the therapy step.
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u/Marijuana_Miler 1d ago
IMO the issue is that many people don’t start using marijuana fully aware of the problems they’re trying to mask symptoms of. Unlike DayQuil you don’t realize you have anxiety and then look for a drug to provide relief. Instead the experience most have is that you try cannabis, feel better not knowing why, and then continue.
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u/HumanBarbarian 1d ago
Not everyone builds up a tolerance I do not. Using the same amount as I have for years. Still works the same.
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u/Danny-Dynamita 15h ago
Nah, weed makes you mentally unstable over a long time, it’s not simply “masking”.
I started using it to “feel great” when I was unable to, but I was quite okay compared to today.
Now, after 8 years of use, I’m very unhinged and react negatively very easily, even if I’m functional enough to work, aim not functional enough to socialize in public.
Whenever I drop the weed, all of it goes down over months, I become rational and very sharp, but I always end up falling back into the addiction and the mental symptoms come back again.
It dumbs you down to dangerous levels, period. You have less ability to understand things properly and thus how to react properly, which leads to almost maniac behavior. And yeah, it’s addictive.
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u/catscanmeow 1d ago
i dont think its that i think it literally just makes people more creative and that can make you paranoid because paranoia is creativity fueled by fear. Anxious people will get more creative with their doomsday scenarios.
many people it doesnt mask symptoms it makes them more extreme. thats the way it is for me.
I think its a histamine response in the brain causing a stress reaction. Everyone i know who gets anxiety from weed if they rub ground weed on their inner forearm it gets mild hives
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u/SaltyShawarma 1d ago
I mean, as a regular user/regular trees commenter, I would NEVER EVER recommend it to those dealing with high anxiety and paranoia. It is known to heighten these feelings. This study is absolutely true and anyone who "self-medicates" for these conditions is going to have a bad time. This study is also one of those "do scary movies scare people" sort of study. The bias is inherent in the historically documented truth of the question posed.
This study is the exact same study about how people use alcohol to medicate.
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u/Odd_Ad9538 1d ago
I once ate a 4X recommended dose of medical-grade CBG cookie sold from a legal local and FTFO… I can’t imagine how someone with unmanaged PTSD might have handled that.
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u/serious_sarcasm BS | Biomedical and Health Science Engineering 1d ago
That really just depends on the underlying cause of the anxiety and paranoia.
Generalized anxiety, adhd, chronic depression, and a divorce can all cause anxiety and paranoia.
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u/HumanBarbarian 1d ago
I self medicated and it did not make me paranoid or give me anxiety. Assumptions are bad in science.
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u/jibishot 1d ago
Yes the quality of these studies is fairly easy to shoot a pea shooter through.
This is a second amalgamation study of various data points not meant to be used together, being used together to prove a riotlessly unimportant point; "People self medicate." The actually important question is the harm vs other drugs people self medicate with.. like opiates, benzos, and alcohol. I'll take the weeds and people on the weeds every.single.time.
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u/joshguy1425 1d ago
The actually important question is the harm vs other drugs people self medicate with.. like opiates, benzos, and alcohol.
If the usage is actually resulting in harm reduction, i.e. the person would be using something more harmful if not for the weed, I agree that’s a positive.
But that’s only part of the picture, and paints a bit of a false dichotomy. Not everyone using weed would have used those other drugs (I’m in this bucket), and there are much better, more durable options than weed for some afflictions (like therapy).
As with most things in life, there is nuance. Weed being better than something much worse is not the only important thing to be looking at, especially if the goal is to achieve long term stable results.
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u/jibishot 1d ago
Close to where I am pointing, but not all the way there. My comment was coming from a place where more extensive options are not viable or available - usually due to accessibility if not price. Whereas, alcohol and benzos would be.
I agree wholeheartedly that therapy is a much more efficient and safer option of "mediation not medication" or just learning the basics of CBT, but it costs and America hates that.
If the options are limited, weed is "safer" than other choices. If the options are open, therapy is unmatched once a therapist is found. A psychologist is a halfway point - but any worth their salt agree it's nothing without active therapy... "oldschool" prescribe whatever and walk away. In that instance weed is also "safer" than an open script of benzos.
It's all heavily nuanced, I agree.
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u/joshguy1425 1d ago
This is still a false dichotomy though. It’s entirely possible that doing nothing at all would be better than using weed in many cases.
My point again is that not using weed does not inherently equate to using a less safe option, and/or choosing not to use a less safe option need not inherently lead people to weed.
As far as the cost of therapy goes, I spend less now on weekly therapy than I used to spend on cannabis. I realize you’re pointing at situations where that isn’t the case, and I realize not everyone has access. But I’d never tell someone “if you can’t find a therapist, try weed” for the same reason I wouldn’t tell someone who has an underlying (solvable) pain condition to just take ibuprofen instead of seeing a doctor.
A lot of this comes down this framing, and my biggest concern is with how cannabis is often presented in the current culture as a solution to mental health issues.
To put this another way, I agree that weed is better than benzos. I also believe that for people who are trying to manage their mental health (certainly anxiety), sobriety can also be significantly better than weed. A lack of therapy options does not change that IMO.
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u/jibishot 1d ago
This is all framing in the end, but it is good on both sides.
"The actually important question is the harm vs other drugs people self medicate with.. like opiates, benzos, and alcohol."
These comments (of mine at least) are about people who use something to self medicate. Not about people who are fine and dandy sober - that's also not what the study was about either.
massive conditional if someone is going to use a substance to self medicate, cannabis is a safer option than most alternatives. Flat out.
Does that mean they have substance abuse issues? Yes + self medicating is a fact of that.
Would it be better to not have substance abuse issues? Yes - but access to therapy for that is typically not accessible to the masses that need it.
I'm not trying to rewrite substance use as necessary, but I am saying substance choice when in a state of substance abuse can have cataclysmic differences in possible severity of outcomes.
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u/boothash 1d ago
People should be more riled up that this is just a low res graph without any details whatsoever behind it.
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u/Noregard86 1d ago
I dunno about depression, but weed has only ever made me MORE anxious and paranoid if anything.
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
Super common. Weed isnt for everyone and anyone who says it is is stupid
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u/Noregard86 1d ago
Oh I still smoke weed all the time, it's definitely "for me" but I suppose I should have clarified that too much will cause me anxiety and paranoia. Edibles especially.
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u/EarlessBanana 1d ago edited 1d ago
While under its influence, or between use or after cessation? Not being critical; earnestly asking.
It's very common for people to claim that cannabis gives them/increases anxiety/paranoia, but not in relation to how much they've used or how it affected their general headspace.
If I overdo it or wind up in a negative headspace that I'm unable to/choose not to distract myself from it can absolutely send me reeling. And if I deeply explore my fears and phobias or revisit past traumas its effects on my mood can indeed persist for hours or days beyond sobering up. But it's clearly not due to an ongoing direct chemical action, it was just the inciting event. This is obviously anecdotal, but it's an interesting and important distinction.
A smaller, more cautious dose in the right environment reliably has calming, euphoric, or positively stimulating effects on me. I would never recommend others use it to treat mental health issues without reservation, but set, setting, and dosage clearly affect results for some. I wish more studies acknowledged and examined this.
Edit: I earnestly apologize if this came off as invalidating to you or anyone else. That was not my intent.
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u/Noregard86 1d ago
While under its influence for sure. I have a very low tolerance for it despite smoking it nearly every day for ~25 years. I attribute that to excessive hallucinogenic use during my formative years.
I can have 2 or 3 puffs of a joint and I get an enjoyable buzz, but if I was to smoke any more I would be getting pretty bad anxiety where my mind will race. If I really overdo it then paranoia can set in. A bong rip will pretty much give me a panic attack.
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u/ArmedWithSpoons 1d ago
Alternatively, I've been smoking nearly as long and also had a long stretch doing various psychedelics and other drugs and only ever had 1 panic attack smoking, when I first started. My tolerance is also high these days. My personal experience always makes me question these studies and the people actually surveyed, if the results or questions weren't skewed to push a biased message in the first place. I don't deny that it happens, but people also need to realize their limit when doing these substances, as it sounds like you have. I don't think that should effect its legal status though.
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u/rasp_mmg 1d ago
Where in their post did they say the other person was wrong? Looks like two people sharing anecdotes about their experiences.
You seem oddly defensive and angry. Maybe smoke a joint and chill out?
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u/EarlessBanana 1d ago
Thank you for your constructive comment.
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u/skwairwav 1d ago
They are literally not arguing at all. They literally DID just ask them "more questions" and absolutely did not then "tell them that they are wrong".
"I am curious if weed makes you more anxious only while you are stoned, or are you more anxious in general, when you are in a period of your life while you recreationally use marijuana? This is my experience <proceeds to give their experience>".
You got triggered by your own misperception of their completely normal, cordial conversation....
I know its been 7 hours since your post, so I hope you got the rest that it sounds like you might need. Just take a deep breath, buddy.
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u/erichf3893 11h ago
Happened to me til I got my tolerance up or just taking one hit at a time helped
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u/jamma_mamma 1d ago
"Anxious and depressed people remain anxious and depressed after substituting therapy for weed."
Waow, I can't believe it. Next, they'll show that alcoholics who self medicated for PTSD still show symptoms of PTSD! Who could've thunk it???
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u/Nukitandog 1d ago
The main point I saw was that the issues were exacerbated among those that sought weed to medicate. However people that just used weed recreationally didnt experience this.
Basically what the Verve said.
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u/BevansDesign 1d ago
You know this is a science sub, right? "It's obvious" is not valid scientific reasoning.
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u/smallcoder 17h ago
True, but scientific reasoning is rapidly being defeated by crackpot opinions everywhere sadly.
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u/itsjfin 1d ago
I don’t think that it is quite so simple.
The point is that self-medicating can exacerbate existing issues if it is not done in moderation or without oversight. Beyond the potential for addiction and the awareness of the obvious effects of marijuana on the brain (dopamine, etc.)
I’m not sure why we’re acting like therapy is a cure-all for mental health in general…
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u/Hour_Baby_3428 1d ago
Yeah, calling it self medication is doing the heavy lifting here.
They are just drug addicts at that point.25
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u/dont0verextend 1d ago
Yup, im a drug addict with a medical card who has epilepsy. You better stop me before I smoke a joint and dont have a seizure!
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u/ceciliabee 1d ago
You don't know what self medication is, do you? How would Roy like someone to call you a drug addict for taking adhd meds? The accusation is equally ignorant to yours.
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u/lambertb 1d ago
I don’t think most people have a clear and accurate insight into their initial motivation to use any particular drug. Much of what motivates us isn’t even available to conscious awareness.
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u/yung_fragment 1d ago
I am a smoker myself, and I am surprised everyone is pretending this isn't the case. I've had friends, family, use it for "anxiety" then slowly up their dose over the years and now they are homeless because they are too paralyzed to make decisions and after smoking weed literally all day every day at this point for "anxiety" the thought of going just ONE (1) day without a hit causes suicidal ideation. I know this is just anecdotal, but I've seen it many times, and when I feel it starts to happen to myself I try to cold-turkey.
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u/kawa413 1d ago
just wanted to add my own anecdote, i started smoking daily during covid to deal with grief and what you say is exactly true to my experience. i held it together for a few years but over time the only way i could deal with anything at all was smoke and the only reason im not homeless rn is cause my family has money to support me. let many friendships slip due to the paralysis and the depression/anxiety always got worse. been cutting down all summer cause at this point i know it is a major impedement to living a full life weed isnt and should never have been classified as schedule 1 but it is not without its own serious issues (most notably psychological dependency) if u lean on it to hard
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u/One-Ice-713 1d ago
This highlights why therapy and proper treatment plans matter. Weed can mask symptoms, not cure them.
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u/MisterrNo 1d ago
This does not highlight that! It shows a correlation which is very expected to observe. People who self-medicate have many confounding reasons to have these mental health issues.
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u/someonefromaustralia 1d ago
There are many psychotherapies out there that are very effective. One therapy doesn’t fit all. Medications is rarely if ever a cure for mental health/illness. Psychotherapy is crucial.
The issue isn’t psychiatry or the GP. The issue is access to quality, tailored psychology at an affordable price. It doesn’t help that the (main) population of people most needing the psychology are the same population that can’t (mostly) afford it.
A perfect example of this scenario is yourself. You have tried medications. It sounds like you’ve tried psychotherapy or psychology. It sounds like you aren’t the norm.
It sounds like you listen to your doctor, acknowledge your treatment, its limitations, the reality. It sounds like You don’t abuse your cannabis.
That is far from the reality of many cannabis users - medical or otherwise.
Here is an example of a psychotherapy that has incredible implications for PTSD (initially developed in the 1980s which is very recent for psychotherapy):
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10926771.2021.2013375
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u/sanchez599 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's not a cure for those things. What a ridiculous unscientific post. Ask MS sufferers or those having seizures, or insomnia.
It is not good for anxiety, depression and paranoia and should be avoided for those people as they can all be side effects so if you have a propensity for them, they can be exacerbated.
This is a study designed with the outcome already known to make a pre-determined point.
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u/joshguy1425 1d ago
As a chronically depressed and anxious person who started experimenting with cannabis, found temporary relief, only to discover it’s not so simple (my results match the study results), I think you are looking at this too narrowly.
I think cannabis should be legal, properly studied, and has obviously shown great results for some conditions.
But weed is also often sold as a cure all, and many long term chronic/heavy users are just maintaining the side effects of that heavy use (me included), and have deep misconceptions about the effect it’s actually having.
It wasn’t until I decided to quit for awhile that I discovered the reality of the addictive potential and it wasn’t until I was sober for a few months that I realized how anxious it had been making me. It creeps up on you gradually.
I’m now in the process of trying to address my underlying emotional issues through therapy and other forms of treatment. The cannabis variable remains a complicating factor because in small doses it gives me a few hours of relief. But I struggle to keep the dose therapeutic/occasional which then leads back to the anxiety loop.
For anyone who has been around the block with this, the study results are not surprising. What is continually frustrating as a person who has dealt with the downsides is the prevalence of comments like yours, invalidating the experiences of many people who are just trying to feel better and were not aware of the potential issues.
Again, this is not an argument for prohibition. But we need to stop pretending it’s a cure all and we need to change the cultural conversation. Go spend some time in /r/leaves or /r/petioles to hear from thousands of people who’ve discovered the same thing and are now struggling because people don’t take their struggles seriously.
There are many drugs that work great for specific things. People aren’t generally offended when it turns out those drugs aren’t great for everything.
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u/TheWhomItConcerns 1d ago
I agree that the post itself is low effort, but I don't understand the rest of your comment. If people already are trying to use it to self-medicate then it seems self-evidently obvious to me that there's good reason to investigate whether or not said self-medication holds any medicinal value.
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u/Baud_Olofsson 1d ago
Every single study that comes to any potentially negative conclusions whatsoever about cannabis gets denounced on here as "propaganda" and and being part of some nebulous, nefarious plot.
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u/Electronic_Sign_322 1d ago
Because there are nebulous, nefarious plots. There is propaganda. This herb that contains many different individual drugs (cannabinoids) was criminalized completely and all of its contents. The cannabinoids have medicinal value and each is different. We’re dealing with something associated with war and trauma and ptsd on both sides. And yes addressing underlying conditions should be a priority, but temporary relief can still be very valuable and helpful for people. Let’s just agree to agree that the underlying problems should be addressed and that those emotions/feelings don’t just come out of nowhere. There is a lot of corruption and careless profit off of capitalizing off people having used a plant for relief. There’s been and are entire industries exploiting people and not helping them. They blame the plant for getting in the way of people working through their emotions/feelings/challenges, but then they for example will lock them away and not let them deal with their life and work through those things. The people who lock up those people or give them “therapy” don’t want to do work and are given way too much power and the lies and corruption and deception are rampant because they know they can capitalize off of the propaganda and abuse vulnerable people. The vulnerable people don’t get an opportunity to deal with anything until after they leave “treatment” for example. And like I said there are many cannabinoids in the plant and not all of them have the same effects. I’m thankful that our society is respecting further the use of soft drugs as a tool, but I also recognize the use of hard drugs as a tool. It’s just a matter of strategy. They’re just tools. I believe in freedom. I also am frustrated by the pro alcohol anti drugs people. People die and stuff… Cannabis actually can be used medicinally as a tool much moreso than alcohol which is just one chemical and is much more toxic. Can Cannabis be a crutch that gets in the way of stuff? Yeah, but I think the withdrawal isn’t really chemical but rather situational in terms of unaddressed things building up and I think that is something to be taken away from this as we inform people about substances. We very much so should have informed people and then imo it’s their choice from there and we should allow it because thats the best way to reduce harm and support better health, outcomes, learning, and relationships.
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u/AlligatorVsBuffalo 1d ago
The withdrawal isn’t chemical? What are you talking about?
The withdrawal is “chemical” along with being psychologically addictive.
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u/silentbargain 1d ago
Especially in terms of GABA receptor agonism; enjoy T break insomnia if you’re anything like me or many many others
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
If you're saying the withdrawal is "chemical" as in alcohol, benzos, or opiates, I would say for you to show me evidence of that
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u/Electronic_Sign_322 1d ago
I’m making a comparison to other things like caffeine, alcohol, benzos, opiates, etc.. Withdrawal from cannabis, especially just thc, is pretty darn negligible if any compared to caffeine and most everything else.
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u/MobPsycho-100 1d ago
Okay, fine, but just because there are nefarious and nebulous plots doesn’t mean that every study that shows a negative effect of cannabis is part of one contrary to what the comments on this subreddit would have you believe. I smoked weed yesterday, I will smoke weed again next week, I promise I’m not anti cannabis.
It’s not just this study, it’s the study about vascular elasticity that was posted a few months ago, and so many others. Oh man, the comments. There’s such defensiveness and vitriol about marijuana, man. Like I know we were told by DARE that you would end up a homeless heroin addict if you smoked weed once, and that wasn’t true (actual propaganda) but that doesn’t mean it’s a completely benign substance that your body accepts with open arms. Yes, there are nefarious plots. There is also an unhealthy emotional attachment to this causing people to take any evidence that it might be unhealthy as a personal attack.
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u/Livermush420 1d ago edited 1d ago
The fact that humans have been using the plant for thousands of years kinda does mean it's a mostly benign substance
Edit: don't comment and then block me from responding.
Hash dates back extremely far.
There, that was my response you literal child
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u/joshguy1425 1d ago
Modern strains are drastically different from what humans have been using for thousands of years.
Modern grow operations breed specifically for potency, and the THC percentage of the average strain at a typical dispensary is more than double what your hippie uncle smoked in the 80s. Older strains range in the 10-15% THC ballpark. Most modern strains are 25-35%. Vape pens are 70% or higher, and concentrates are often over 90%.
Most people who end up with bad outcomes (CHS, psychosis, mania, etc.) get in trouble because of the 70%+ THC in those concentrated products.
It is not accurate to compare the modern weed industry with the thousands of years of history before now. If modern weed was more like it used to be, this would be less of a discussion. The problem is that low THC strains are actually pretty hard to find, so even if someone is aware of difference, they don't have many choices that resemble the old stuff.
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u/MobPsycho-100 1d ago
Cmon man. Alcohol, then too, right? Is that why your liver is mush?
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
Can you not tell the difference between a plant that grows and a poison that's made from a process?
Btw, the better comparison was humans adapting the ability to eat rotting fruit from the ground
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u/MobPsycho-100 1d ago
I think my response to your fallacious appeal to tradition was just fine, thanks.
Humans have been drinking beer since the dawn of civilization, so it must be completely (not mostly, I said completely) benign. Nevermind that we consume far larger doses today than we did in the past because of more efficient distilling methods.
Plants =/= poison. Everyone knows plants simply cannot harm you.
Thank you though for being a really great example of the kind of person I’m talking about.
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
For however long humans have been making alcohol, they've been using cannabis even longer. Sorry not sorry
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
If the correlation between taking a drug and your symptoms being made worse in the future mattered, they wouldnt be prescribing benzos for anxiety. (Yet it the most common drug prescribed to adults with anxiety)
Most of these studies are anti cannabis propaganda and are usually funded by pharma companies so
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u/TheWhomItConcerns 1d ago
If the correlation between taking a drug and your symptoms being made worse in the future mattered, they wouldnt be prescribing benzos for anxiety.
The correlation matters to science regardless of whether or not the government decides to act on said science.
Most of these studies are anti cannabis propaganda and are usually funded by pharma companies so
This just seems conspiratorial and prejudicial. Unless you have some kind of actual methodological or material critique, I don't see how this comment is relevant.
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
Did you even read the post? They farmed data to put this together they didnt even run a new study? Because its been done over and over again
And its not a conspiracy? Big pharma is the largest anti cannabis loby in the US?
Super easy to just disregard a statement you cant actually argue against by calling it a conspiracy though.-7
u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
You sound like someone who doesn't believe pharmaceutical companies paid doctors to prescribe oxicotin and then started the opioid epidemic
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
Also, if it actually mattered to science. They still wouldn't prescribe benzos for anxiety and depression but guess whos the largest market for that class of drugs?
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
It doesn't do anything directly for the pain from my CMT, but it allows me to relax which makes the pain less, if that makes any sense whatsoever. Same thing with anxiety and PTSD. I use weed along with a lot of sensory grounding, but is that any replacement for therapy? No! But is the world going to give me, a person who can't even afford health insurance, access to thearpy? Also no!
In short: weed is the best poor people have
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u/bananahead 1d ago
It’s not unscientific to investigate how a real group of cannabis users is using cannabis.
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u/Marxism-Alcoholism17 1d ago
I dunno weed basically solved my depression. Maybe that’s not common but it at least can happen.
However, I have also never experienced side effects such as anxiety. I only use edibles paired with a 1:1 CBD ratio. I’m pretty sure that makes it healthier at least according to a few studies I’ve seen.
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u/_Burnt_Toast_3 1d ago
Yep. Trying to bash marijuana as a medication when it is citing self medication for anxiety and depression is ridiculous. It is like people with insomnia trying to self medicate with cocaine or other stimulants.
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u/thegooddoktorjones 1d ago
What I learned from this paper is that the vast majority of people in London use weed to have fun and not as a cure for mental health issues. Amazing!
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
Don't they have access to mental health services there? Seems like a big difference if so
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u/I_am_always_here 1d ago edited 1d ago
A lot of the Medical benefits of Cannabis aren't from THC anyway, but from other cannabinoids such as CBD, CBN, CBG, and CBC. But it requires a certain level of THC to activate those other beneficial cannabinoids. CBD, for example, is being studied as an anti-psychotic: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6678854/
Here in Canada, where Cannabis is legal, it is possible to purchase Cannabis with a ratio of equal or greater amounts of these other cannabinoids to THC. But consumers keep asking for higher THC products, unaware of the entourage effect, which is a problem for those consumers who want to be responsible and have more choices in lower THC products. High THC smoke requires the other moderating cannabinoids be bred out. It isn't so much that Cannabis has become THC stronger, although it has somewhat, but that other cannabinoids, such as the anti-psychotic CBD are much less or absent.
But in Canada, edibles are federally limited to 10mg per unit. The Cannabis that can be legally bought in the USA is up to 100mg per unit and maybe much more, because it is a Schedule 1 drug not regulated by the Federal FDA, which is how I understand the laws there.
Who takes 200mg of THC and is surprised when they get anxious and paranoid? Or take that much everyday and still be functional? I would never take anything like that amount. For example, a normal dose of 2mg THC with 20mg CBD is nice and relaxing, or at least highly unlikely to cause anxiety or any other negative symptoms for most people IMHO.
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u/Doc5tove 1d ago
This describes my relationship with THC exactly. I started as a medical card user for a sleep disorder related to PTSD and eventually became a daily habitual user. My anxiety and depression absolutely worsened over time. After quitting cold turkey, I have almost no anxiety and depression symptoms and my life has improved drastically. This is real.
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u/Marxism-Alcoholism17 1d ago
Huh this doesn’t align with my personal experience, weed basically ended my depression.
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u/Own-Animator-7526 1d ago
This aligns perfectly with the paranoid, anxious, and depressed sentiments expressed on r/thailand when the government recently added restrictions to its cannabis sales regulations.
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
Too bad articles written 30 years ago said the same thing? This isnt new
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u/megachine 1d ago
And they pushed Reefer Madness almost 100 years ago now. Their propaganda isn't new either.
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u/BlindTravelre 1d ago
I keep seeing "cannabis is bad" reports but have to ask, how much are the individuals using? If they are getting uber lit, then yeah addiction and health issues will be the result. If you micro dose or use like you would any other medications, the results will be different.
Also big picture. a comparison of Rx med side effects to cannabis has to be considered as well.
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u/joker0812 1d ago
Maybe it helps them process reality properly and see how messed up many of their relationships are including within work inducing further anxiety and depression.
After I found my first truly healthy relationship, with my fiance, my anxiety and depression got much worse to the point I started taking medication. I realized how mentally and emotionally unstable most of my relationships were and had been in my life.
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
This article isnt breaking any new ground
We've known for years that cannabis makes anxiety and depression worse.
If the medical community cared about drugs making the things they're prescribed for worse, theyd stop giving benzos for anxiety but here we are!!
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u/sometimeshiny 1d ago
You're going off on benzos but benzos are GABA agonists of which GABA are necessary neurotransmitters. Imbalance leads to excitotoxicity and neuron death. I think you might not understand that.
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
I do understand that, its why symptoms are worse after taking and why i said what i said (:
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u/sometimeshiny 1d ago
Ok but that leads to neurological disorder and death. You know of ALS like Hawking? Combat veterans are spiking bioelectrically and damaging neurons in this manner. With GABA agonists, this is lowered because GABA is the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter. That means it lowers bioelectric spikes. If you don't lower them, they fry motor neurons and paralyze the person as seen in ALS. That's not good and you should really treat the PTSD that is actually biology of neurotransmitters here. So no, it's definitely not worse if you understand the biology of it.
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u/AlligatorVsBuffalo 1d ago
Why are you working overtime in this thread?
You really cannot stomach an article that is negative about Cannabis.
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
One comment myself, and two on someone elses. One of them was actually negative too. I literally said weeds not for everyone
I also dont think people with anxiety or depression should use it...
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u/AlligatorVsBuffalo 1d ago
Your own comment, 3 separate reply threads, one with a back and forth.
At least 7 comments on a 30 comment post.
But I’m sure we both know short term memory can be a fickle thing
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Big-Fill-4250 1d ago
Its not even about addiction. Stopping can kill you. They interact with your brain like alcohol does and Stopping the use suddenly is not good.
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u/locnloaded9mm 1d ago
I have to micro dose because the weed is just too strong for me and I'm in my 30s.
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u/HoneyBadgerBlunt 1d ago
Personally Ive noticed my habits ebb and flow. There will be an intense use period followed by a reduction in useage. Ive noticed that when im constantly using anxiety and depression swing way up. When I reduce they go away. Sp I use less and still have a posotive outlook. You gotta know ypur owm body and mind and find out. This is exactly why we need legalization. Research.
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u/iamnotyounorwouldili 1d ago
Honestly, the older I get the less I find i enjoy cannabis. Its very effective at dealing with my pain, but now I just dont get "high" and enjoy it, i find i just dont get as much house work done. I tried to stop totally and found mentally i didn't need or want any, but my nerve pain got way worse and impacted my daily. Id like to find something that works as effectively as THC does. (CBD doesn't work for me sadly other than making it easier to sleep but does nothing for the pain)
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u/llehctim3750 10h ago
The one thing these studies don't talk about is how every other drug and I'll include alcohol are way worse health wise than cannabis.
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u/SackFace 1d ago
Weed isn’t any different than alcohol, cigarettes, food…
Choosing to sellf-medicate with a substance instead of properly addressing what ails you is always going to lead to diminishing returns.
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u/More-Dot346 1d ago
There’s a bigger pattern here: the brain just like any other biological entity tend towards homeostasis. Alter the feedback patterns and the system will try to self correct.
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u/IGNOOOREME 1d ago
Often when self medication occurs, there is a component of that "medication" that is effective to some degree. Examples: schizophrenia and cigarettes, ADHD and coffee. Nicotine has been shown conclusively to alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia, same for strong stimulants (like caffeine) and ADHD. It is reasonable to conclude that there is a component of weed (not necessarily straight THC) that does actually help alleviate the symptoms of anxiety. Not that it treats the problem. Very different issues.
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u/RachelRegina 1d ago
What about those who first used cannabis to increase their libido? Did they later consume more THC and report decreased libido? Doubtful
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
What the hell is the BMJ? I legit looked on their site and they only say "the BMJ" like a gun out of Duke Nukem or something. I thought it would be Biomedical Journal or something, but no, just self-referenced in the initialism
Edit: not saying it isn't reputable because google says it's highly so -- the name just confounds me
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u/wanderlustnomadlife 1d ago
I can concur that this study is extremely poorly done. Whoever published it was high af.
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u/Independent_Kiwi_251 1d ago
Or maybe, JUST maybe, people are actually very different and what works well for some doesn't work well for ALL. Pharmaceuticals have long term side effects, eating processed food has long term side effects... we don't know if natural food has any long term side effects because when food quality was better everyone died at 30! I am not saying stop studying or doing the science thing but maybe look into the reasons behind the reasons.
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
There is a bell curve, but the thing about bell curves is the majority are affected the same
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u/Independent_Kiwi_251 1d ago
Yes, but the problem with "bell curve" data is that the uneducated "usually the majority" seem to think it's all, and remove the options for those it actually helps.
Speaking specifically on THC, my experience with it as a treatment for my anxiety and depression has been a success. Whereas every majority tested med has completely bombed on me with horrendous side effects.
I never liked weed as a young person hated it in fact but now it has helped so significantly.
My fear with these studies is more for the ignorant to continue to block the federal government from legalizing it, and worse take away the states' abilities to continue legalizing it.
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u/Livermush420 1d ago
I can't put forth an honest reply to this that the sub will allow me post, sadly. Something about lifestyle changes also being important.
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u/jibishot 1d ago
"OH yea this drug is the least impactful for those who self medicate vs all other commonly used drugs like alcohol and benzos."
"...oh yea, mhmm.. yes we will make sure to demonize weed some more. Of course... yes these idiots will never notice that this data was never supposed to be amalgamated into an entire study. It's perfect... quite."
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u/RocketLinko 1d ago
I used gummies for anxiety and ended up having a panic attack so strong I haven't felt the same since.
I got diagnosed with panic disorder and got put on an SSRI. I wish I just took the SSRI when I was having anxiety issues. It's working a lot better.
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u/RainWorldWitcher 1d ago
Same here, the SSRI really helped. My parents consume edibles for sleeping sometimes and it did not work for me at all.
Apparently our experience is just unbelievable to Redditors. Goes to show throwing out studies because it is "too negative" is just anti science.
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u/braaaaaaainworms 1d ago
What is the source of this image? Reverse image search finds only this reddit post.
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