Honest conversation: SPOP Is my beacon for the rise of hate and fascism around the world.

[u/Lunatrap]

PLEASE. Is this too political? Please just trash this post. If you don't do so:

Can we talk about how this show is such an inspiration for the fight against authoritarianism?

I always use this show as inspiration to strive for the future. Sorry, I'm so corny.

[u/BEEEELEEEE]

I totally get where you’re coming from, I’ve been dwelling on the recent Superman film for similar reasons. Its unabashed idealism is exactly what we need in today’s increasingly cynical media landscape.

[u/Capital_Chapter1006]

I’m not going to tell you you’re wrong, because people can interpret an awful lot of things from media. Especially messages that feel like a fit for the current social political landscape.

Because I watched this cartoon years ago, I’m somewhat aware of the intentions behind the way Horde Prime was depicted. And Stevenson’s intention was to depict him like a fundamentalist religious leader in mega churches with cult like tendencies. Even his ship has architectural features and lighting design that can easily be linked to those of mega churches.

It’s fair to say that right wing political movements at the moment are trying to present themselves as theocratic. And yeah, you can say that about Horde Prime, I think. He very much operates under a guise of benevolence and inclusion. And from a higher position of morality, presenting it as the true way of being.

The truth is he’s a mad man whose religion and political system is all about satisfying his ego and bolstering it through conformity and control. Much like authoritarian leaders. I do feel the message with him is to not trust people who wield power like he does and pay attention to the actions and demands of people like him. They don’t have to necessarily be political leaders, they can be spiritual, social, educational, etc etc.

As for promoting democracy, I don’t really agree. Partially because the active political rulers we learn about adequately to assess, are monarchs. Queens, Kings, Prinesses and Princes. And the right to rule in Brightmoon, is hereditary. It verges on “divine right of kings” because, in Brightmoon and Plumeria the royalty have powers that seem to grant them an elevated recognition of status and right to rule.

No matter how fair and just, no matter how well the citizens are treated and cared for, that style of government is still autocratic in terms of function.

There’s probably more nuance I’m missing, but as I’m neither educated nor particularly knowledgeable/intelligent, be sure to take what I said with a grain of salt.

[u/Seatly → u/Capital_Chapter1006]

I think it has more to do with the oppression and assimilation of etherians (who seem to all be queer) along with that authoritarian rule and cult brainwashing that we see through catra and the rest of the horde but thats just my opinion on why it could be relatable

[u/Capital_Chapter1006 → u/Seatly]

Good for you for having your own opinion! 😊I think it’s important and matches the spirit of the show. I don’t quite get what you mean when you say “you think it has more to do with”, the “it” part needs more context for me to get what you mean.

And yes! You’re right! I’m pretty sure Stevenson said something in an interview about everyone is queer unless otherwise stated so. Man I love this show. Stevenson also said in an interview his intentions and inspiration for Prime, too.

[u/Seatly → u/Capital_Chapter1006]

By it i mean why the show is an inspiration for fighting (modern) authoritarian governments (cough the USA cough) ie the post topic lol.

[u/Capital_Chapter1006 → u/Seatly]

I mean, that’s an element of it but I was focusing on the styles of government that OP was referring to. The show isn’t championing democracy per se, but clearly has a message of fighting against control and assimilation focused entities and regimes. In this case, an allegory for a religious one.

[u/Seatly → u/Capital_Chapter1006]

Which are all tactics used by authoritarion governments and i think itd be impossible to retain democratic practices in war times. Like if we were serious this would be like if zelensky died and a full total election happened in the midst of war times, with missing,displaced, or unaccounted people having their voice stolen or unheard

[u/Capital_Chapter1006 → u/Seatly]

I’m not saying they’re not the same tactics? I pointed out in my original reply that authoritarian practices can be employed by anyone?

This is a weird conversation, man. We’re talking about a cartoon about sparkly Princesses.

Or at least I am.

[u/Seatly → u/Capital_Chapter1006]

Sorry, im being cranky and not phrasing stuff correctly. What i meant was that the tactics the horde used are primarily that of an autharitarian government versus the princesses more so representing a democratic or republic form then autharitarian through their actions and motives. Expecting the show to paint an actual form of goverment is unrealistic is all i meant with the zelensky thing by putting glimmers rise to queen of brightmoon into an irl example.

im still talking about sparkly princesses, i get very technical and im starving

[u/Capital_Chapter1006 → u/Seatly]

And I keep saying to you that ever since my original reply that I acknowledge that Prime uses authoritarian tactics and that the use of authoritarian tactics isn’t limited to people in politics. He just happens to represent a fundamentalist leader of mega churches in this particular media. I also said in my original reply that the great thing about media is that, despite the original intention of the media, you can relate it to modern day events or identify aspects that can be applied to different topics other than the intention of the original media. This is part of media literacy.

Regardless of what is possible in the this particular show with respect to representing the political structures in play on Etheria, the ones we’re most familiar with are hereditary based monarchies. Which are autocratic by nature even if they’re not harmful in practice. It’s no more unreasonable for me to point that out than it is for you to share your interpretation of what is represented by what.

In saying that, any kind of government is capable of resisting and will defend themselves against a hostile and controlling invader. Whether or not it’s a democracy. It’s easy to represent in media, no matter the political structure, and is always up for interpretation or discussion.

[u/FictionFoe]

The show is nice, but I don't think the kindoms are democratic exactly...

[u/Lunatrap → u/FictionFoe]

That's true! The next rebellion should be against the concentration of magic in the hands of the princesses. But that's beyond,

[u/FictionFoe → u/Lunatrap]

Or just segregate political power from magical power or smt. Let the princesses be a police force but be subject to laws they dont themselves create.

[u/Lunatrap → u/FictionFoe]

OMG, you are getting into very interesting social theory. I can't lie, I'm so being Entrapta. I'm not smart enough. However, I strive to understand.

[u/imwhateverimis]

while it's a nice message of resistance in the face of violent colonialism and imperialism I don't think it quite deserves the rank of "against fascism" as status quo is a monarchy and more or less remains unchallenged. Somehow k-pop demon hunters is a little more progressive in that as (SPOILERS) a big plot-point there is also "the status quo we've been protecting is also fucking garbage actually".

I'm not really too hung up on it because judging by how the monarchy is written it's clearly one of those "everyone is happy" dream-fantasy monarchies that just exist for the vibe rather than to really have any influence on the intended messaging

[u/Cydonian___FT14X]

This show definitely has that, but the series which most strongly exemplifies such things for me is Andor

[u/FairyFeller_]

I mean... I don't want to rain on your parade, but SPOP is ultimately about a bunch of hereditary monarchs fighting to restore the status quo. Inspirational rebellion, it is not IMHO.

[u/MixPurple3897 → u/FairyFeller_]

Well yeah but they're also fighting against a violently forced installment of an authoritarian regime and the destruction of the environment

[u/FairyFeller_ → u/MixPurple3897]

Yes, they are fighting fascism, which is worse. But still... what they fight for is just less bad.

[u/blackknightjm]

I don’t like people using a show about friends and relationships then giving it all this political meaning leave adora out of your political journey she to good for this world anyway