r/smallbusiness • u/AdHead5088 • 2d ago
General I've kept 200 people employed for years. A tariff might end that overnight.
Hi guys,I run a company in Vietnam that sells wood materials for furniture manufactures like plywood, MDF, laminated panels, the raw stuff that turns into desks, cabinets, shelves. For years, U.S. buyers have been one of our biggest markets, keeping designers on budget, and honestly keeping my 200+ employees in jobs as well.
Now with all this talk of a 25% tariff on furniture imports, I’m just… exhausted. Others are rushing to front-load shipments now, trying to beat the tariff window. Meanwhile, my workers are asking if hours will be cut, and I don’t even know how to answer them.
What makes it worse is, even if these tariffs happen, does anyone really believe thousands of Americans will suddenly want to clock into a cheap furniture factory in North Carolina or Ohio tomorrow morning? We all know the answer. The U.S. makes maybe 20% of its own furniture right now, the rest is imported.
Instead of generating more jobs, this just feels like a tax on everyone: higher prices for U.S. families, canceled orders for exporters like my company, and a ton of uncertainty hanging over small businesses who are already stretched thin.
This could be the first time trade policy is threatening my entire business. Has anyone else here had orders disrupted or fears of it because of tariffs? How are you preparing? Any suggestions for me?
386
u/Simco_ 2d ago edited 2d ago
if these tariffs happen, does anyone really believe thousands of Americans will suddenly want to clock into a cheap furniture factory in North Carolina or Ohio tomorrow morning?
These vendors don't exist. You won't have all your orders disappear. There are not other alternatives. That's the issue with the timeline across all industries with these changes: There's currently no feasible alterative to pivot to.
132
u/AdHead5088 2d ago
Totally. It’s not like a bunch of factories and workers are just sitting around waiting. There’s literally nowhere to pivot overnight.
81
u/pimppapy 2d ago
A lot of people think life is like a video game and you can just put a factory with all its workers in standby. The reality is that people need to be actively making money, or doors will close and stay closed. Until someone else can put in the seed money, time, and effort to reopen those doors. All these tariffs are going to do is slow down spending and make people tighten their belts further
61
u/Dark_Wing_350 2d ago
We saw that with COVID, so many businesses shuttered and to this day have not reopened (and likely never will).
Employees move on, the facilities shut down and fall into disarray (especially when you can't afford or justify security and cleaning).
Lets say Trump serves out his term, the next POTUS comes in and reverses a lot of this tariff shit - it'll be too late for many businesses, they'll be lost forever.
2
30
u/sharkbait-oo-haha 2d ago
The other part is who would be stupid enough to spend a couple million setting up a factory, when your competitive edge tariff could and likely will be cancelled in the next 2 - 36 months.
17
u/mr_exobear 2d ago
Mmm..furniture factory in NC here. We are not sitting and waiting, we are preparing for expansion. The pivot will not happen overnight, but it will happen. It's already happening.
5
u/KingSlayerKat 1d ago
lol yeah, these people don’t know what they are talking about.
I also own a business in the furniture industry and we have a bunch of guys calling us on a weekly basis, waiting for us to expand so we can give them work.
People have this idea that we have to build billion dollar factories to fill the volume, but furniture building is an old world craft that was often done by a couple people. There’s tons of woodworkers, upholsterers, seamstresses, and metal workers that could set up shop tomorrow for less than $50,000 and fill the market. It’s just not worth it for them to compete with foreign labor right now.
2
3
u/mathilxtreme 1d ago
It’s yet to be seen if you can be profitable for the same item at a 25% surplus. I doubt it.
This will just make consumers pay 25% more for the same item, or you’ll see a lot more people not buying new furniture.
2
u/mr_exobear 1d ago
That's not how it works. The tarrif is applied to the cost of the item or the component, not to the final price. The material costs in manufacturing are not the main ones. Labour, overhead and margins are the biggest pricing factors. So even if the tarrif is 25% let's just say for the fabric, the final price will increase 3-5%. A real example from today, we are building some stools, everything is domestically sourced, except the kickplate. The tarrif on it increased by 1$ or so. We are not going to increase the price this year. We'll add that dollar next year along with inflation. All good!
The losers are gonna be the importers and the lazy "manufacturers" that imported every component: frame, fabric, hardware, all of it from overseas and they were putting them together here and slap "Made in America"... well, the good times for them are over.
→ More replies (8)2
u/randomvandal 1d ago
I think the big problem with the pivot in this case is that prices will soar and consumption will drop.
2
u/mr_exobear 1d ago
Yes, I agree. That will be an issue for the final consumer. I just wanted to point out that you can increase production domestically, that's not the problem. Of course, we'll run in some hiring issues, because people are not super eager to work in a furniture factory, but.. more CNCs for me to play with.
2
u/JasperGT-R 1d ago
Yeah, I was wondering when people in NC and SC, companies that build Southern Motion, etc... chime in and explain these tariffs help our state(s).
11
u/freebytes 2d ago
They are also waiting for the Supreme Court to rule the tariffs unconstitutional. The power belongs to Congress, and Congress gave that power to the President in the case of 'emergencies', but if President Taco is constantly turning them on and off and using them for 'deals', that that is proof there is no emergency. The tariffs could be passed by Congress to make them permanent, but that would be unwise on behalf of Congress, and they know it. So, if you can hold out, there is a strong likelihood that the threat will disappear within the next year. And if the threat is going to disappear, no one is going to build factories for it.
5
u/randomvandal 1d ago
I don't know if there is a "strong likelihood", given that the SC, and Congress, have largely been complicit up to this point.
5
u/Educational-Plant981 2d ago
This is bandied about like gospel, but it is simply untrue. I live in the rust belt and worked in factories at all levels from floor to management for most of my career.
First off, just about any operating factory has plenty of marginal capacity. You don't run at 100% all the time, because it is uncomfortable. You have to pay overtime. Maintenance windows get tighter. Everyone has higher stress on them etc. But when push comes to shove, you can put more workers on machines. You can run second and third shift. You can work 6 or 7 day weeks. You can pull the old, less efficient machines out of mothballs and spin them back up, etc. I literally never worked anywhere that didn't have boom periods where we did this for months at a time.
Second. Yeah, there actually are a bunch of factories just sitting around waiting. When the work got offshored over the past 30 years, the factories shut down. But the buildings didn't just evaporate. There are tons and tons of industrial buildings literally just sitting around in various stages of disrepair. The things that take a long time to set up, like constructing the facility, and an industrial scale connection to the power grid, are done. Some need major repairs, but some of them could resume being productive facilities in a matter of weeks, I've seen it done.
All they are waiting for is it to be profitable to operate here again. Which is what tariffs are intended to do.
4
u/RedneckPaycheck 1d ago
An empty warehouse is not a factory. You need machines, trained labor, and support staff to run a business. None of that happens in a vaccuum.
And labor in the US is so expensive it is literally the biggest hurdle and it will never get cheaper.
1
u/2andahalfcats 19h ago
Came to say this. Honestly I wouldn’t mind American made products if the Quality checks weren’t awful. And like you said, an existing building is not a building with trained professionals to handle making these products in a way that is consistent, and accounts for modern day equipment, computers, ect
7
u/freebytes 2d ago
The tariffs are not intended to make these companies profitable again. Tariffs are a tool, and they are being misused.
If Taco is using them for deals, then they are not going to last, and it makes no sense to invest in re-opening factories. If he is lying about the deals and is using them to bring back manufacturing, then changing the value, pausing them, etc. makes no sense. Therefore, no matter what, the actions of the Taco administration are nonsense.
Tariffs could be used strategically in this manner, but that would be better handled by Congress. After all, they have the ultimate power to control tariffs, not the President. They have chosen to grant 'emergency powers' to the President, but the courts will likely declare that the usage does not constitute an emergency, and they will go away.
→ More replies (5)0
u/Educational-Plant981 2d ago
I actually at least partially agree with you. I think the way they have been implemented is an absolute fiasco.
But anyone that says there hasn't been reshoring happening because of them is lying to you. My customers are doing it to a large extent just to avoid uncertainty. If they were actually written in stone, there would be even more reshoring.
1
u/_packetman_ 2d ago
When you say "if they were actually written into stone", what do you mean? Prices raised permanently so American businesses can compete? Then where would the money generated by the tariffs to offset tax breaks be? On top of the raised prices "written into stone"? Is this a good outcome? I could be misunderstanding, just trying to follow what you meant.
3
u/Educational-Plant981 1d ago
The biggest problem I have with much of what the government has been doing (at least on the business side) the past couple administrations is that things they can't do legislatively they are doing by executive order. This means that when the administration changes, another executive order will come out to change it. It makes it hard to plan long term because major things that effect your business can flip based on one man's whim, where with a normal law, to reverse it you need to change the makeup of the Senate.
Trump's tariffs are this x10, because he is using the threat of the tariffs to try and produce behavioral changes from other countries. So he has been threatening or ordering them, waiting for a response from the other country, depending on the response, delaying them or cancelling them.
I think what he actually wants is to bully other countries into behaving better, but not actually to implement the tariffs at all. But who knows? It's Trump. Whatever the actual goals are, it plays hell with business planning. It's hard to bid long term contracts when your projected part cost goes up and down 30% week to week as Trump plays chicken with Xian Jin Ping. That is really hard on people.
Now whether some level of protectionism is good is a totally different question. Modern economists tend to say "no." Free trade is what is best for everyone.
Personally, I think that is myopic thinking which is only considering total dollars, not the distribution of dollars. The hard reality is that we need good jobs for people with less education, and if we don't have any factory work we don't have those good jobs. I don't care if free trade is better for our total GDP if it is great for multinational megacorporations but awful for blue collar workers.
To say that is good is using the same logic that was used to support trickle down economics: There is more total money and it will make it down to the poor people eventually.
Personally, I think free trade is folly. We have moved all our production to the dirtiest, most abusive places in the world, and have funnelled Trillions of dollars to our largest global competitor. It isn't fair or good for the world as a whole to make our workers compete with producers that have free reign to wreck the environment.
I think tariffs could be an enormous force for good. Tie a punitive tariff rate to a score card based on a country's labor and environmental laws (and enforcement). If we encouraged them to play by the same rules that our businesses have to play by, they wouldn't undercut us so bad anyhow
18
53
u/126270 2d ago
There’s plenty of other countries that manufacture wood products
I moved away from China manufacturing during covid and haven’t looked back
I won’t buy from a country that has millions of forced religious persecution Uyghur slave laborers, 6,500,000++ slave labor workers in camps hours from home in conditions so poor they install anti suicide nets…
Plus china wood is almost never sustainable, almost never chemical free, often 10-18% of product arrives with infestation and damage, supplies shipped thousands of miles around the globe several times contributing to global warming
The biggest challenge was finding ethical and employee owned producers - so much production is affected by cartels, multinational corporations who ignore as many laws and regulations as possible, stacking the deck against the smaller more sustainable groups
At this point we have promoted our supply chain as much as our actual product - our customer base would reject made in china for so so many reasons
46
u/no-ice-in-my-whiskey 2d ago
Yea genocide is kind of a no go for me. Its wild people here in the US with their moral superiority still dont mind funding an atrocity
20
11
u/kesin 2d ago
lol wait til you find out what the US does
6
u/bubba53go 2d ago
The imperfect US isn't even close to the attrocities the Chinese, Russians, etc. Are capable of.
3
u/little-marketer 2d ago
US is Israel’s main backer and sole supporter, and they’re DEFINITELY up there with russia and china
2
u/formermq 1d ago
Even the majority of Jews in the US agree with your sentiment. This is the US allowing money into politics where politicians are bought by the Israeli lobbyists.
5
u/no-ice-in-my-whiskey 2d ago
... are you implying that currently the United States is engaged in something worse than genocide?
3
30
8
u/bubba53go 2d ago
Great points. I offered a 45ish Chinese woman a product the other day (US showroom) she asked where it was made. Wnen I said it was Chinese she said no thanks. She said many Chinese will avoid Chinese goods at all costs over quality issues & buy foreign. It surprised me.
→ More replies (3)2
2
u/formermq 1d ago
The average person in America buys cheap shit because it's all they can afford. Simple as that. They might agree with you, but they can't afford those moralistic values. They will walk into Walmart and get the flat stack furniture made out of illegal Russian lumber, cut by North Korean slave labor, milled by slave labor in China, and then shipped to America. Tariffed, mind you, and still cheaper than an American made equivalent.
They will tighten their wallets when they can't afford all of this discretionary spending because they are spending it all on food and other mandatory expenses that have inflated beyond their income bracket.
Don't forget 25% of Americans just lost (marginal) health care. That's $880 Billion removed from the economy. This alone is going to completely upend spending habits across all of America.
4
u/c_chan21 2d ago
In their industry specifically, there are many other countries that export Mdf to the us.
7
u/Simco_ 2d ago
The question, and the topic at large, is about the expectation of domestic production being able to handle the influx of orders originally handled by multiple foreign countries within days or weeks of an announcement.
To be clear, Ohio and North Carolina are areas within the USA. That was what he was asking about.
2
6
u/mamawantsallama 2d ago
If the orange genius had used some sort of thought process, he could have started a huge 'Made in the USA' campaign encouraging us to buy from USA for a year before implementing the tariffs. I realize there's not enough manufacturers here anymore to have helped, but at least it would have given time for him to make his deals instead of just blowing everything up for everyone.
→ More replies (4)-5
2d ago
[deleted]
6
u/mamawantsallama 2d ago
It was just a crazy idea I was throwing out there, I don't think much more crazier than what he's already doing. I was referring to him doing that after he took office in January '25.
8
u/rabidstoat 2d ago
I think they meant start the tariffs a year later, and spend a year of his term promoting Buy America.
I don't think that would work since buying American is usually significantly more cost than buying the equivalent product from a foreign manufacturer, though.
1
u/TallmanMike 1d ago
It seems like trump doesn't actually care about moving production jobs to the US. He doesn't want to create an American furniture industry, he wants things to stay exactly the way they are but be ~20% more profitable from the US side and he's using timelines and tariffs to try and scare other nations into rushing bad, one-sided deals.
80
u/PersonoFly 2d ago
I’d suggest cut back on future expansion, cut recruitment and overtime. Ensure orders you take in advance of (full) payment are from clients you believe are the most trusted and be more cautious with those who haven’t been the most prompt payers. Set up a plan for if your US sales reduce by a range of percentages.
Most importantly, talk to your key customers.
Network with other businesses to see how they are minimising impact, creative shipping options, diversifying into new markets and talking to your own suppliers as well as seeing what political updates you can get to better plan the short and medium term.
The tariffs are hitting hard some sectors in the USA which is causing the Trump administration to postpone tarring increases and avoid more political damage. So to some degree, albeit risky, it’s a waiting game.
28
u/farmallnoobies 2d ago
Tariffs are hitting harder on China and a handful of the other usual countries exporting to US than they are hitting Vietnam.
If anything, Vietnamese companies should net ahead when companies transfer business away from China because the Vietnam tariff is smaller.
19
u/AdHead5088 2d ago
Yeah, totally get you. For now I’m front-loading trusted clients’ orders and slowing down expansion plans. But it feels like we’re all stuck in this waiting game, just hoping for clearer signals from DC before making bigger moves.
2
u/throwawaybebo 2d ago
Good points. Planning for different sales drop scenarios and tightening terms with slow payers is smart. Anyone here tried alternative shipping or markets with any success?
43
u/milee30 2d ago
Tariffs are the immediate threat to point to, but the underlying issue is that you're dependent on an arbitrage type play resting on a single market. You're experiencing the exact thing those NC furniture manufacturers went through in the 80s, except the cause then was globalization and being able to source from alternate countries.
Your business won't die overnight, but unless and until you change the model you're always going to have this risk. Short term, you keep expenses at a bare minimum while things play out. But unless you start thinking of what you'll pivot to - could be selling the same thing but to a broader range of customers or could be selling something completely different - you'll always have this risk. Always.
14
u/AdHead5088 2d ago
True, I get what you mean. I’ll keep costs tight for now and start thinking seriously about where to pivot. Thanks for the perspective.
2
u/wendigo88888 2d ago
Think about australia too! We are close by and we purchase so much mdf furniture here. Every office is filled with it.
Even just having a secondary market as a backup is a great way to pivot temporarily when things like this happen. You wont even need to change much just focus you rbusiness more into the secondary region when these tariffs or other issues arise. Plan for global uncertainty because i feel like this is so normalised now we will get much more incidence of acute global trade changes
4
29
u/farmhousestyletables 2d ago
As an American manufacturer of solid wood furniture, I have some mixed feelings on this.
5
u/asevans48 2d ago
They make the raw materials that would be 100%+ more expensive if made in the us.
3
u/Kevinclimbstrees 2d ago
I didn’t know trees were exclusive to Vietnam lol
3
u/asevans48 2d ago
Its not the trees. Its the cost of manufacturing the mdf. Btw, mdf is composite so you know nothing. Would you buy mdf if the price doubled? Will your clients buy your furnitur? Lets consider the example of missouri nail manufacturers. when tariffs hit, they moved the jobs to mexico. If they manufactured using steel from anywhere, prices would skyrocket. Steel here is analogous to mdf. Could we make both, yes but the cost skyrockets. Canada spent decades building hydro and renewable energy while we bitched about coal.
3
u/Kevinclimbstrees 2d ago
MDF is up to 82% wood. So, without wood, MDF wouldn’t exist. The rest is glue and wax. Like I said, cheap crappy material that sells at wal mart.
1
u/Kevinclimbstrees 2d ago
And I don’t buy MDF things. My entertainment stand was made by myself, out of solid 2x4s. Anything MDF that I have, was given to me. I don’t support garbage products
1
u/mathilxtreme 1d ago
Your resistance to MDF shows you’re not a professional wood industry person, as there are plenty of places MDF performs better than natural wood.
For example, MDF cores are mandated by industry groups (AWI) for interior paneling, as any other substrate will warp.
Thinking SPF 2x4 furniture is better is laughable.
1
u/Kevinclimbstrees 1d ago
Oh, I didn’t know interior paneling is furniture.
I’m sure there’s good applications for it. Furniture is not one of them.
1
u/mathilxtreme 1d ago
Furniture is definitely one of them.
You seem to be equating usage and build quality with material suitability.
If you want to see the finest furniture in the whole world, look up Boucher & Co. Literally makes furniture for kings and queens. Yes, a lot of it has MDF in it.
1
1
→ More replies (5)-1
u/farmhousestyletables 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why? That will just promote even more ignorant political commentary.
Edit: The comment I was replying to disappeared.
16
u/1lookwhiplash 2d ago
I work at a patio furniture factory in Quy Nhon.. we need a good supplier of wood and MDF. We’re not slowing down.
Where is your factory located?
7
u/AdHead5088 2d ago
We are in Ho chi minh city (previously Long An), now everyone is front loading to avoid paying more in two months but I'm fearful if a furniture tariff comes in then
5
u/PersimmonDelicious86 2d ago
Your concerns are correct. I am from China. My hometown, Nankang, is one of the largest furniture clusters in China. Now it is in a depression due to US sanctions and the decline of China's real estate.
15
u/Jackson88877 2d ago
I live in a fellow South Asian country. Please sell your furniture to us and let us know it’s Made in Vietnam.
A lot of of people are being hurt. I am sorry this is happening to your employees and you. 💚
2
u/Pitiful-Internal-196 2d ago edited 2d ago
im pretty sure Chinese goods are still cheaper for the SEA market
5
u/Sunshine12e 2d ago edited 2d ago
I went through NAFTA, when it killed the industry in my hometown. I now own a manufacturing business overseas. I was young and just starting out when NAFTA happened, and many business owners thought that they would make it through. They did not. The furniture industry still has a bit of foothold in North Carolina, but the textile and sock industry is dead. People did not pay more for Made in America, they did not pay more for quality. I left my first business when my main supplier lost his contracts, and watched all of the companies go out of business. Who benefitted? Mega companies like Wal-Mart, who could easily find contract manufacturing overseas for less, cutting out all of the small businesses and boutiques who bought from our local companies. Now, it is basically the exact same thing. There are many small businesses who rely on overseas supplier, so now that the laws are changing, once again the Mega businesses will be able to swoop in and grab up the market share. It doesn't matter whether adding tariffs or removing tariffs, because either way it is completely turning upside-down, the way that a business can be profitable and there will be many losers; and a few winners that were able to conveniently take advantage due to their current position at the top already.
1
u/mathilxtreme 1d ago
I think everyone needs to take a step back and realize that price doesn’t equate to quality or value. Asia manufactures tons of things of high quality and value for a much lower price than America can.
1
u/Sunshine12e 1d ago
The socks were definitely made lower quality. I think that you need to remember that when NAFTA passed, it was large companies wanting to maximize profits who contracted the items to be manufactured, and they were all about cutting costs, not a quality product that one I'd proud to put their name on.
1
u/mathilxtreme 23h ago
But for like 95% of people they’re just socks, and they want the cheapest socks they can get…
Which means that’s where the market lies. People value spending the 10$ they can save on socks in some other sector.
3
u/MatniMinis 2d ago
With regards what to say to your staff, be open and honest with them.
Yell them you don't know what's going to happen yet but as you find things out, you'll communicate it with them. I've ran a business that went through uncertain times and that's what I did, if you hide things from them they'll lose trust in you and bail, if you're open and honest with them and include them in the conversation, you have a good chance to jeep the onside.
10
7
u/cazzy1212 2d ago
I sell patio furniture and I’m not sure what we are going to do. Furniture is not the main part of our business so if we cut it we will be fine. Furniture has already gotten so expensive container and custom fees through the roof.
5
u/UnidentifiedTomato 2d ago
You will have less ppl buying but you'll still have customers. Focus on you strengths look for your weaknesses
6
u/fantasymagic 2d ago
I can’t tell from your post, are you based out of the United States and manufacturing in Vietnam or are you fully based in Vietnam? Do you sell direct to people or are you manufacturing for a larger business/corporation?
3
u/PhallicusMondo 2d ago
There’ll be a slow down then a recovery, you’ll probably be fine. We import aluminum and steel products and have had a bad couple months from a margin perspective each time the duties ratchet up but everything has seemingly balanced out for now. Be sure to just prepare for another potential increase, do what you can to reduce prices and absorb some cost for the short term, you’ll probably end up ahead of any competition. We just aim to protect core margin during the first year or so of this.
3
u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 2d ago
We have had our business decimated by foreign firms for years.
We send our Navy ships out every time there is a threat to commerce.
We have helped build up several Asian countries.
I was in Thailand and Cambodia and they had 100% tariffs on cars.
We are tired of all the pollution and our own workers decimated by the old Nafta agreements.
The world landscape has changed from when several of these deals were inked.
We have a massive prison population that can make everything that you sell.
Your country has Healthcare and we do not.
12
u/KawaiiUmiushi 2d ago
I’ve been living in constant fear for the past 8 years. The tariffs are chewing into our profits and making our supply lines rough. We have no US options for the parts we buy. No one makes small DC motors and LEDs in the US.
My cousins run a high end baby clothing line. They had their products made in China but during the first Trump presidency they spent a lot of time and money moving production to India. Now India is facing massive tariffs, and they really have no options. They can try moving somewhere else BUT for all they know a random tariff could just appear anywhere at any time. It makes long term planning impossible.
I know a couple of businesses in our field who are at the breaking point, especially as the education market also experiences horrible uncertainty due to federal and state funding. If we survive it means we’ll have less competition. If.
5
2d ago
[deleted]
6
u/KawaiiUmiushi 2d ago
Oh man. We’re using even smaller motors. Little tiny vibrating ones, like in cell phones, for STEM projects.
Our solution? Just raise prices on our customers.
2
1
5
u/Green_Genius 2d ago
If you lose your business then Trump was right on tariffs, if he's wrong then you'll be fine.
8
u/Boujee_Italian 2d ago
Are the people you employ American workers or do they live in Vietnam? How much do you pay your lowest paid employee?
6
u/f0restwow- 2d ago
Time to pivot my friend. If you employed 200 people I am sure you can make something better & bigger.
6
u/wsbgodly123 2d ago
How many of these 200 people are overseas? That’s the issue. US economy is employing a billion people - overseas
5
u/8307c4 2d ago
At some point I wonder where does the line get drawn insofar as "small" business?
I personally don't think a company with 200 employees qualifies.
7
u/crimsontiger6 2d ago
The requirements set by the Small Business Administration (SBA) can be a decent guide, for example:
“Most manufacturing companies with 500 employees or fewer, and most non-manufacturing businesses with average annual receipts under $7.5 million, will qualify as a small business.” SBA “Basic requirements” page
→ More replies (1)
19
2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (12)1
u/smallbusiness-ModTeam 2d ago
Your post has been removed because it includes a personal attack on a person or group of people. If it was a counterattack we hope you reported the original attack and will read below. This is not notification of a ban.
You are free to post about your opinions about business, practices, intent, ideas, concepts, approaches, and more but it stops when you reference an individual or group. Trying to pretend not to make a personal attack while making a personal attack is included in that and a bad idea. For example: "Doing XYZ would be stupid" is marginally rude, likely ineffective, and won't help you persuade someone but allowed. "All your ideas are stupid" is a personal attack as are more direct insults.
Please report any attack on you rather than counterattacking. Anyone making an attack is not worth your time, will not listen to you, and doesn't deserve your attention. You also might get caught up in any bans or removals we do accidentally.
If you make several personal attacks you may be banned. In that case you will get a separate ban message.
2
u/No_Mistake2512 2d ago
I've felt the same way and it helps to know other experience it too, thanks for sharing your perspectives.
2
u/BigSlowTarget 2d ago
I think you're going to get hit with a lot of price fluctuation but it is going to be fluctuation, not just increase. There has been the phase you describe of where people stock up. There will be a phase where people suddenly realize they're paying a lot for warehouse space and try to sell things cheap. There will be a phase where that stuff is gone and prices spike - even ramping up in the US takes time. This whole process will repeat as business attempts to move to lower tariff countries and those countries tariffs change.
In an environment of a lot of change I would focus on flexibility. Look at diversification of what you produce to both location and in what you make. Look at changing how you pay people to share the risk (both employees so they can be ready and shortening supplier contracts/reducing inventory).
Dropping a bunch of unknowns and fluctuation into the business environment absolutely increases costs. The tarrifs are an attempt to get a bigger piece of good stuff while reducing the overall amount of it. That's what you're seeing.
2
u/EmploymentNo3590 2d ago
You may be able to skirt tariffs slightly by arbitraging your goods via countries with lower tariffs but, it will take a lot of number crunching.
2
u/ActualParsle 2d ago
Can l ask if there are other alternative countries with markets you can use to at least break even?
2
u/jordan3184 2d ago
Is it really possible to manufacture stuff in USA which middle class can afford ? I haven’t seen many things which I as middle class can afford.. most of the things I order via Amazon or Walmart comes with label made in china and if I try to buy American prices are three or four times more.. even if I want to buy that I don’t have that sort of money .. what you guys think of it ..
5
4
u/whiskey_piker 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is how the world works. You benefited from a short term window “market forces and government policy” that allowed you to have profits. All windows change and that is reality.
Edit: after reading your responses - US citizens voted to have living wages and fair workplaces and environmentally clean workplaces even though those changes meant some US businesses would have to close. To vote on changes like that and then willfully purchase from low coat countries that do not have those required policies is a trait of a degenerate person. The only reason people don’t want to build furniture in North Carolina today is because the wage + tariff disparity was so large that demand for US products couldn’t sustain the wages. The tariffs fix this. It is a basic Business 101 fact about the balance between trade and low cost countries.
3
3
u/jebediah999 2d ago
honestly it's up to you to look for other markets or develop the ones you already have some inroads into. maybe you'll have to take a haircut to be price competitive to keep your workforce. but the US isn't the only game in town or at least it can't be anymore.
5
u/chris_ut 2d ago
This argument that folks dont want to do these jobs is ridiculous. We still make a lot of furniture in this country and used to make almost all of it before they laid everyone off and shipped the jobs overseas. You think all those furniture makers threw a big party to celebrate the offshoring of their jobs? Thank god, we didn’t want the job we had they yelled while popping champagne. This shit is pure propaganda.
6
u/Accomplished_Emu_658 2d ago
The general american populace seems to think people will just make everything here, but meanwhile won’t do the jobs themselves.
I was just down south for work. Sitting in a bbq spot with a lot of rednecks. They were bitching about there being no jobs, but when one of them mentioned some company was hiring it was beneath all of them.
4
u/BlackCardRogue 2d ago
People will do anything if you pay them enough money and they are desperate enough.
2
u/aeschenkarnos 2d ago
Making them that desperate is going to make them desperate enough to do a whole lot of other things. The assumption that desperate people will respond to that desperation by taking crappier jobs, and that only, so that the 1% can stay unbelievably rich, is flawed.
Other nations have in the past tried the experiment of unchecked immiseration of the lower classes and unchecked enrichment of the upper classes.
→ More replies (3)0
u/Han77Shot1st 2d ago
Americans have little to no foresight or common sense it seems.. it’s almost like their exceptionalism leads them to believe they’re immune to poverty in the dystopian country they’re creating.
Quality of life, wealth and workplace safety will have to significantly decrease for them to have any semblance of success, and that’s if the bubble holds.
3
u/FED_Focus 2d ago
This is the reality. The manufacturing ship sailed 30 years ago. Not like America in the 70’s, high volume manufacturing is highly automated and doesn’t take that many people. For the remaining labor-intensive manufacturing (like OPs example), it doesn’t pay enough to support a family and Americans just aren’t tough enough to do that sort of job.
1
u/Accomplished_Emu_658 2d ago
Its like farm work too. Americans don’t want to do the job especially for as little as those who were doing it were. They wanted people gone doing the work to free up jobs for americans to do, just not them because it is beneath them, but for other americans.
7
u/sat_ops 2d ago
My dad was so disappointed when my brother and I firmly stayed that we didn't want to farm like him, my grandfather, his father, et seq.
I started doing my parents' taxes in middle school. I realized then how little farming pays. I make more in 2-3 months than my dad does in a year, and my brother makes 50% more than me. My dad taught ag at the local vocational school, too, to make ends meet. My uncle took over the farm when my dad became disabled, but he doesn't have the business acumen or scientific understanding needed to operate at a high level. My cousins are idiots, so I don't know how long that farm will stay in the family.
I remember showing my dad how much capital he had tied up in (inherited) land and how much more it could make in a conservative stock portfolio. He didn't want to hear it. The idea of not working land is anathema to that man.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/theRhysenator 2d ago
Can’t you try and sell to China?
1
u/PersimmonDelicious86 2d ago
China itself is the world's largest manufacturing industry and has no shortage of production capacity
2
u/LeonMust 2d ago
does anyone really believe thousands of Americans will suddenly want to clock into a cheap furniture factory in North Carolina or Ohio tomorrow morning?
This isn't how tariffs work. The tariff is to make prices on imported goods on parity with domestic goods. So if a piece of American made furniture costs $50 and a similar piece of imported furniture costs $20, the tariff will bring the imported furniture closer to $50.
Most Americans will choose the domestic option over the imported one so this will increase furniture production in America which leads to more jobs all without decreasing American pay. Practically every country imposes tariffs on imported goods.
If you're an America, you should consider moving back to America and opening up a furniture manufacturing plant here to avoid tariffs.
4
u/MoMo_texas 2d ago
No, not really because now both pieces of furniture cost $50 when previously one cost $20, so now the American consumer has to take $30 more out of their wallet to buy the furniture. Thus, more of their paycheck money just went to the furniture. People don't have extra money these days. Most will opt to not buy either $50 furniture and make due with their current furniture or go to garage sales or fb market place and buy a used ( but better then current) piece of furniture for $20. Thus, not enough of an increased demand on American furniture to fund new factories and workers in US.
0
u/LeonMust 2d ago
so now the American consumer has to take $30 more out of their wallet to buy the furniture.
Yes, this is true and this is what tariffs are supposed to do. A Honda Accord costs $60k dollars in Indonesia and that's due to tariffs.
Tariffs are going to hurt all low and middle income families for a little while but overall, the tariffs will be better for Americans. The tariffs have already kickstarted the American steel industry which means more jobs for Americans which means those Americans will have more money to spend. Honda and Toyota have already committed to building more factories in America because of the tariffs and this will create more jobs for Americans. Do you see where I'm getting at?
2
u/freebytes 2d ago
These tariffs will not be better for America. They are being sloppily implemented. Companies will not want to invest in factories if the tariffs are likely to go away in six months to a year. Tariffs should be implemented strategically, and once implemented, they do not go away. The "blanket" strategy, the lies about deals, and the constant flip flopping and delays will result in the loss of money for Americans with nothing to show for it except massive unemployment and higher prices.
4
u/LeonMust 2d ago
Every other country uses tariffs because they work. You may not agree with the tariffs but that doesn't mean it's not going to be better for America and Americans in the long run.
I'm excited for the future where Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Hyundai TSMC, Nippon Steel, AstraZeneca, GSK, Lego, SoftBank, IBM, Apple and more are going to build factories in America because of the tariffs. This will provide a lot of jobs to Americans that that were lost because of NAFTA.
→ More replies (8)
2
u/Zombie_Slayer1 2d ago
Trump, not only bankrupting the USA but the whole world. 😂 History gonna show him next to Hitler but with tiny hands and small dick. All hail the pedo king.
2
u/Electronic-Action-44 2d ago
Hello from vietnam. We work in same industry but i guess I'm much smaller scale than you. Where are you btw, send me an pm
2
u/Snoo-74562 2d ago
Someone has to eat this price increase and in the end it has to be the American consumer. New factories won't pop up in the states overnight but that may very well happen in time.
The Brazilians have a similar situation with their coffee and have used this to pivot away from America and try to expand in alternative markets.
2
3
u/SecureWave 2d ago
We don’t have infrastructure, schools or people to support opening those factories. We’ve given it all away, and this is not something we can get back by pounding our chests. There are so many implications with this choice. I don’t think our politicians have considered when they left jobs be moved over seas and I don’t think they’re thinking about it now.
2
u/livin_in_the_wild 2d ago
My cousin used to make wood trim in the US, cheap imports put him out of business. He’s talking about going back into that business to a certain extent and see how things play out. I think in the long run it will help the United States
1
u/infinitezer0es 2d ago
Im a manager at an international trade consulting firm, feel free to reach out to me and ill do best to field your questions and help make sense of all the chaos
1
1
1
1
u/finematerial33 2d ago
Trade policy is framed as protecting local jobs, but the ripple effect shows how global supply chains actually work. A tariff in one country can end up cutting hours for workers thousands of miles away, while consumers at home see higher prices
1
u/soldieroscar 2d ago
Dont people already pay premium for italian furniture? Looks like everyone is bracing for increases across the board. My business had to increase msrp due to my vendors, between 5 and 40%. Im just passing it onto the consumers.
1
u/D3kim 2d ago
sucks because viet voted for this and continue to double down, how do i know? family friend who has a business gets awfully quiet when you think of reasons why this is happening to him. He wants the sympathy and help but none of the admittance it was literally him not understanding the real definition of socialism and communism and basing it off his home country plus listening to his own people disinform him. Sad but maybe this is the system needs
1
u/Robert-Berman 1d ago
While I can understand how exhausted you are, your team and employees is looking up to you for the “magical” answer that you do not have. I cannot speak for the tariffs directly, but what I can say is that you just need to be honest with your employees and tell them the information you do have (good or bad) and possibly look at restructuring things that can save you and your employees. I do not get political and I’ll refrain from it here, but this is another example of the impact a person or persons can have based on what is best for them. I hope you and your employees can come out of this okay, sincerely!
1
u/celestial2011 1d ago
Do mdf and wood frames count as furniture? If you do framing - I’m always open to new suppliers! Just shoot me a DM, I’ll be needing a shipment soon and would love to support!
1
u/mathilxtreme 1d ago
Economics in One Lesson, written in 1946, has a whole section on Tariffs. The thought needed is to not just look at the seen, but to explore the unseen.
An excerpt:
“Now let us look at the effect of imposing a tariff. Suppose that there had been no tariff on foreign knit goods, that Americans were accustomed to buying foreign sweaters without duty, and that the argument were then put forward that we could bring a domestic sweater industry into existence by imposing a duty of $5 on sweaters.
There would be nothing logically wrong with this argument so far as it went. The cost of British sweaters to the American consumer might thereby be forced so high that American manufacturers would find it profitable to enter the sweater business. But American consumers would be forced to subsidize this industry. On every American sweater they bought they would be forced in effect to pay a tax of $5 which would be collected from them in a higher price by the new sweater industry.
Americans would be employed in a sweater industry who had not previously been employed in a sweater industry. That much is true. But there would be no net addition to the country’s industry or the country’s employment. Because the American consumer had to pay $5 more for the same quality of sweater he would have just that much less left over to buy anything else. He would have to reduce his expenditures by $5 somewhere else. In order that one industry might grow or come into existence, a hundred other industries would have to shrink. In order that 20,000 persons might be employed in a sweater industry, 20,000 fewer persons would be employed elsewhere.
But the new industry would be visible. The number of its employees, the capital invested in it, the market value of its product in terms of dollars, could be easily counted. The neighbors could see the sweater workers going to and from the factory every day. The results would be palpable and direct. But the shrinkage of a hundred other industries, the loss of 20,000 other jobs somewhere else, would not be so easily noticed. It would be impossible for even the cleverest statistician to know precisely what the incidence of the loss of other jobs had been—precisely how many men and women had been laid off from each particular industry, precisely how much business each particular industry had lost—because consumers had to pay more for their sweaters. For a loss spread among all the other productive activities of the country would be comparatively minute for each. It would be impossible for anyone to know precisely how each consumer would have spent his extra $5 if he had been allowed to retain it. The overwhelming majority of the people, therefore, would probably suffer from the optical illusion that the new industry had cost us nothing.
And this brings us to the real effect of a tariff. It is not merely that all its visible gains are offset by less obvious but no less real losses. It results, in fact, in a net loss to the country. For contrary to centuries of interested propaganda and disinterested confusion, the tariff reduces the American level of wages.
Let us observe more clearly how it does this. We have seen that the added amount which consumers pay for a tariff-protected article leaves them just that much less with which to buy all other articles. There is here no net gain to industry as a whole. But as a result of the artificial barrier erected against foreign goods, American labor, capital and land are deflected from what they can do more efficiently to what they do less efficiently. Therefore, as a result of the tariff, the average productivity of American labor and capital is reduced.
The effect of a tariff, therefore, is to change the structure of American production. It changes the number of occupations, the kind of occupations, and the relative size of one industry as compared with another. It makes the industries in which we are comparatively inefficient larger, and the industries in which we are comparatively efficient smaller. Its net effect, therefore, is to reduce American efficiency, as well as to reduce efficiency in the countries with which we would otherwise have traded more largely.”
1
1
u/Super-Buddy7337 1d ago
Really tough situation. It’s heartbreaking how policy changes can wipe out years of hard work overnight. Hoping you and your workers get some stability soon.
1
u/tyler-woznica 1d ago
The job market is terrible right now. I would gladly walk into a cheap furniture factory for a job.
1
1
u/lifeofbablo 1d ago
Tariffs risk collapsing your business higher U.S. prices, canceled orders, and job losses without actually reviving U.S. furniture factories.
1
1
-4
u/Bubbly-Release-2270 2d ago
It’s funny you all complain that companies here don’t pay their workers “livable wages” and how they ship all the jobs overseas.. Which is why tariffs were set in the first place to encourage people to bring jobs BACK to the US, but since it’s trump that’s implanting them it’s a problem lol.. Well maybe it’s the wrong group group to say this because this is “small business owners” lol but this is what your employees in America think and feel on the issue, not sorry to say !.. if it was literally anyone else implenting tariffs everyone would be cheering and that’s sad
→ More replies (2)4
u/callherjacob 2d ago
False. It doesn't matter who implements these particular tariffs. They're hurting American business because we cannot compete with countries that have a much lower cost of living. Period.
-2
u/Bubbly-Release-2270 2d ago
That’s exactly why those countries are having tariffs put on them in the first place so whatever theyre importing into America they have to pay extra for that they can either build here or disband.. That puts American business owners in a better place to compete
5
u/callherjacob 2d ago
Small international business will simply partner with other businesses outside of the U.S. and our small businesses will fail. That is the only outcome here. The intent is to reinforce megacorporations and it will be successful.
5
1
0
u/MoMo_texas 2d ago
"They" don't pay the tariffs! We do, the American companies pay the tariffs. And then companies raise their prices.
2
u/onomatopoeia8 1d ago
Yep, you got it, good job buddy. Then when we’re able to better compete with 3rd world countries on price, we can employ more Americans in higher paying jobs. Yes, prices will go up, but so will wages. There will be a lag, of course. If you’re short-sighted just say so
→ More replies (1)
1
1
1
u/Majestic_Republic_45 2d ago
It’s not like this can happen overnight. This would be years away from implementation. However, if the will be good jobs and they should be, we will have no problem staffing them.
1
1
u/jlsdarwin 2d ago
I fear the age of consumption is coming to an end. Tariffs are just speeding it up
1
u/wtfuxorz 2d ago
find a 3rd party country to ship to that has a lower import tariff from Vn-xx-USA than youd use shipping straight Vn - USA.
or get a storage yard there and ship all your stuff to it. Youll incur more shipping costs for sure, but that can be offset by price increases on your product.
1
u/hazelswitchystore 2d ago
🐸✨ Discover kawaii chibi frog tarot art full of witchy vibes, mystical charm & whimsical magic! At Hazel's Witchy Store, I design cute frog vinyl stickers, tarot-inspired decals, magical frog art prints & witchy gifts for frog lovers, tarot readers & kawaii collectors. 🌙🔮 Perfect for decorating laptops, water bottles, journals & more. Follow for exclusive sticker drops, tarot frog reveals, shop updates & enchanted witchy creations that add a hop of magic to your world!✨👉 Shop Here! - https://hazelswitchystore.myshopify.com
0
u/uj7895 2d ago
Your business model was created when cheap labor made less expensive products that drew consumer demand away from factories located in the US that had higher labor costs. And now your business model is ending because technology is replacing cheap labor. I have a friend that has a CNC table that makes laminate furniture. It can run 24 hours a day, loading raw sheets on the table and stacking finished products. Another machine boxes up the kits. The sheets are manufactured 50 miles from the sawmill that produces the base material for the sheets, also in our area. He overlaps parts of different cabinets cut from the same sheets to maximize raw sheet utilization. Pretty much any waste is sawdust. And that equipment is scalable. He can make as much product as demand will consume, without the expense of importing or transcontinental shipping. The tariffs that are pricing you out are creating jobs for people build that kind of equipment. But those tariffs are just accelerating the obsolescence of your manufacturing process, they aren’t causing it. Digital cameras killed one hour film processing. Phones killed digital cameras. Tariffs that protect American production and actual manufacturing are a good thing for those businesses. However, tariffs on something that is never going to be sourced in America will overwhelmingly affect lower income people more than others because of the amount of imported goods they consume. Low skill manufacturing is not returning to America. The Covid PPE shortages showed the risks of depending entirely on an imported product. The health care industry, the government, and retailers all said they would permanently support domestically produced medical PPE. Substantial money was invested, factories were built over night, and domestic production sufficient to meet 💯 of the supply demand came online. The day the cheap import options returned, those companies were finished. Tariffs on products that will never be made in the US are pointless and painful. But they are creating new opportunities. You are already distributing the product. You are ahead of the start up companies that have the headwind of a presumption of higher prices. If you adapt your manufacturing process, you have a better chance of winning. But tariffs or no, your dependence on cheap labor will never be the manufacturing edge it has been in the past.
0
u/Salty-Mud-4766 2d ago
Yep. Tariffs are just hidden taxes. The middle guy (you) gets crushed while politicians claim it’s about "protecting jobs"
0
-14
u/xHangfirex 2d ago
That's the point of the tariffs.
13
u/manlleu 2d ago
That's the point but no one is going to invest in a country with such a volatile leader who changes mind depending on what had for breakfast.
→ More replies (7)8
u/Snow_Tiger819 2d ago
it would be if the US produced these things at a comparable price, but they don't. There is no US alternative.
-10
u/Bubbly-Release-2270 2d ago
That’s the whole point of tariffs in the first place is to bring jobs that Americans have shipped overseas back to our country
→ More replies (14)
•
u/BigSlowTarget 2d ago
Hello all. Questions about tariffs are now part of some business persons' daily lives. It looks like they will be for the foreseeable future. Asking questions is what this sub is for so questions about tariff impact on small business are reasonable.
What is not reasonable is any personal attack on anyone. Please report these so they can be removed.
Political comments not addressing the specific issue will be treated as promoting your viewpoint and also removed. It doesn't matter if the mods agree or disagree with your viewpoint, it isn't what we're here for. Please take those discussions to the subs designed for them
Thanks for reporting attacks.