r/southafrica • u/allthisjusttocomment • Mar 19 '18

Redditor provides counter-argument to documentary about South Africa's "Reverse Apartheid"

/r/Documentaries/comments/856hzq/south_africa_a_reversed_apartheid_2018_a/dvvwfcy/?context=3
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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

playing second fiddle to a black person when going to a job interview is somehow the same as a black person being considered less than human and not given any opportunities. plus, i do not know of a single white person that worked hard in school and studied hard and after all that were denied all job opportunities (in a field that actually has demand).

It's not, but at what point will it have served it's purpose as a measure to address inequality and instead become a form of discrimination?

How will we ever reach equality when population statistics look like these? Combine this with the rampant corruption and gross mismanagement of the ANC and the answer is never. That's why some white people look at it the way they do.

given land and the opportunity to work

That's pretty sweet. My grandparents had to buy their land unfortunately.

Things would have also gone better if black people back in the day actually tried to treat honestly with the white settlers, you know as opposed to betraying and brutally killing them. The battle of Bloodriver was the result of such a case.

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u/beeswaxx Mar 19 '18 edited Mar 19 '18

It's not, but at what point will it have served it's purpose as a measure to address inequality and instead become a form of discrimination?

you think a decade or so of slight benefits can magically rectify hundreds of years of oppression? shit, apartheid was so recent that i still have older people calling me 'baas' at petrol stations

That's pretty sweet. My grandparents had to buy their land unfortunately.

that's pretty sweet, and unlike black people they got the deed signed no problem, hey?

Things would have also gone better if black people back in the day actually tried to treat honestly with the white settlers, you know as opposed to betraying and brutally killing them.

yeah, sure was a one way street, hey?

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

Go ahead and masturbate about Apartheid until you think it's going to solve things all while absolving the oppressed of all their faults. Perhaps if you masturbate hard enough you'll look like right past state capture, the black population explosion, unrealistic populist ideals, communism and tribal leaders who didn't even want to negotiate honestly. Oh and add gross mismanagement to the list.

that's pretty sweet, and unlike black people they got the deed signed no problem, hey?

Yes after they had to buy it of course. Or perhaps that's what you originally meant by given?

yeah, sure was a one way street, hey?

That clever Dingane signed the deal, invited them over for a performance and had them beaten to death like coward after they were heavily outnumbered with their guard lowered.

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u/beeswaxx Mar 19 '18

Go ahead and masturbate about Apartheid until you think it's going to solve things all while absolving the oppressed of all their faults. Perhaps if you masturbate hard enough you'll look like right past state capture, the black population explosion, unrealistic populist ideals, communism and tribal leaders who didn't even want to negotiate honestly. Oh and add gross mismanagement to the list.

no one here is seriously justifying the ANC's behavior, this is about white people complaining about reverse apartheid and not being given equal opportunities. and it's partly because of people like you, who belittle the impact of apartheid, that black people hate white people still.

Yes after they had to buy it of course. Or perhaps that's what you originally meant by given?

Yes, plenty of dirt poor afrikaners were GIVEN land in the early 20th century. it was a scheme where you could work on building the railway and then receive a piece of land as part of your compensation. i know this because my grandfather's cousin's family was a beneficiary of this scheme.

That clever Dingane signed the deal, invited them over for a performance and had them beaten to death like coward after they were heavily outnumbered with their guard lowered.

you keep mentioning specific events where the zulu's attacked unjustly, i'm saying that there were PLENTY of atrocities committed by the white folks in those days

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

no one here is seriously justifying the ANC's behavior, this is about white people complaining about reverse apartheid and not being given equal opportunities. and it's partly because of people like you, who belittle the impact of apartheid, that black people hate white people still.

And I'm fed up with Apartheid being used as a shield by the ruling party and the majority as a justification for how things are going, all while public funds which are supposed to be used to empower black people is being ransacked. SOEs like SAA is making losses numbering in billions, Zuma gets a house worth R245,000,000, questionable Gupta vat refund released of R70,000,000, the arms deal etc.

If the parties the majority kept voting for earnestly tried to uplift black people then I would have a lot more empathy.

Yes, plenty of dirt poor afrikaners were GIVEN land in the early 20th century. it was a scheme where you could work on building the railway and then receive a piece of land as part of your compensation. i know this because my grandfather's cousin's family was a beneficiary of this scheme.

Then they didn't just get the land anyway. They still had to pay in one form or another.

you keep mentioning specific events where the zulu's attacked unjustly, i'm saying that there were PLENTY of atrocities committed by the white folks in those days

And I'm not saying the settlers were saints, but black people did their part to ensure that race relations went to hell long before Apartheid.

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u/beeswaxx Mar 19 '18 edited Mar 19 '18

Again, no one is justifying state capture. I am criticizing white people who somehow think they are under reverse apartheid.

Then they didn't just get the land anyway. They still had to pay in one form or another.

again, the point is that they COULD work for money and land while black people COULD NOT. plus the compensation was disproportional, they got the land to help them start up since they could not afford it. They had to work, but it was still worth more than the work they did. it was a government subsidiary.

And I'm not saying the settlers were saints, but black people did their part to ensure that race relations went to hell long before Apartheid.

so black people are at fault for being treated like animals? if black people were all friendly and hippy-like they would have been treated as equals? you really are delusional.

All over the globe, white people plundered, slaughtered and imprisoned the indigenous people: native americans, aztecs, incas, aborigines, tribes all over africa, asia, literally everywhere. but according to your logic it's the hostile natives that started the fire, not the gentle white settlers who might have made a few mistakes, but nothing compared to the savage locals!

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u/Pm_me_de_steam_codes Mar 20 '18 edited Mar 20 '18

Queue the Zulu tribe, one of the most violent and blood thirsty peoples on the globe, pre-colonization and post-colonization.

No one is a saint.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '18

One would say the entire white race was blood thirsty on the globe.

You see how terrible generalisations are?

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '18

Again, no one is justifying state capture. I am criticizing white people who somehow think they are under reverse apartheid.

Except it's being left out of the equation along with the rapid and unsustainable black population growth. It's exaggerated to say that there is a "reverse-Apartheid", but if the victims along with their elected government continues to ensure the indefinite existence of black poverty then they also continue to ensure the existence of exclusionary policies like BEE and at what point is it no longer white people's fault if they are becoming a large part of the problem?

again, the point is that they COULD work for money and land while black people COULD NOT. plus the compensation was disproportional, they got the land to help them start up since they could not afford it. They had to work, but it was still worth more than the work they did. it was a government subsidiary.

They were granted the opportunity where black people were denied that. This whole part of the argument came about because you implied it was simply given free of charge.

so black people are at fault for being treated like animals? if black people were all friendly and hippy-like they would have been treated as equals? you really are delusional. All over the globe, white people plundered, slaughtered and imprisoned the indigenous people: native americans, aztecs, incas, aborigines, tribes all over africa, asia, literally everywhere. but according to your logic it's the hostile natives that started the fire, not the gentle white settlers who might have made a few mistakes, but nothing compared to the savage locals!

If it happened in SA where the settlers at least tried to treat with local populations and were betrayed then it no doubt happened elsewhere. The fact remain that it happened here.

And saying it would've turned out the same regardless of how black people acted is backed up by nothing. There was potential to at least start off on a better foot and that opportunity was squandered.

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u/iambeingserious Mar 20 '18

White people don't downplay apartheid, they are pissed off about how much focus is given to apartheid and how little focus is given to the disaster that is the ANC government. You can't change the passed but you can change the future and the ANC is doing very little to make the future brighter for SA. Imagine how many children could've been schooled and fed for the money that has been lost on corruption.

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u/beeswaxx Mar 20 '18

i see plenty of white people knowingly or unknowingly play down apartheid. You just did by saying "the part is the past". You seem to have no idea just how terrible and lasting the effect of apartheid is and how much hate (not justifying it) there still from black people.

yes, OBVIOUSLY, the state capture and incompetence within the ANC should be addressed and removed, but i always laugh when white people say that "it's been more than 2 decades since apartheid" as if it's effects vanish after a fixed amount of time.

And people keep going on about the ANC and shit.... this thread and my original comment was about reverse apartheid and how it's ridiculous

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u/iambeingserious Mar 20 '18

Saying the past is the past is not down playing apartheid. It's fact, regardless of what you say. So either you focus on the past and destroy everything. Or you accept it and try build on top of it.

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u/beeswaxx Mar 20 '18

the phrase "past is the past" implies that all should be forgotten as it's over now as if it's impact is gone. if you are treated like animals for all your life, your parents were treated like animals all their lives and so forth, how is the past just the past after apartheid ends?

OBVIOUSLY we should move forward and create a new SA where racism is a thing of the past and not dwell on the past, but we should rectify our mistakes and not pretend like all is over and forgotten. black people are still at a disadvantage due to apartheid, whether you like to admit it or not.

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u/iambeingserious Mar 20 '18

Well we will never move forward if the government blames everything on fucking apartheid. Is that so difficult to understand? The government has been fucking up for 25 years and is now Scape goating the whites. Shit like this leads to genocide and civil war.

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u/beeswaxx Mar 20 '18

i don't see why you think that the two is mutually exclusive... we can condemn the ANC's behavior, looking to move forward AND not pretend like apartheid should be forgotten because the past is the past.

the only way we can actually move forward and stop this white blaming from the anc is for white people to actually confront and address the past. it's because of the lack of this that the anc can get away with apartheid blaming.

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u/iambeingserious Mar 20 '18

They are mutually exclusive. For all the noise about apartheid, there is hardly a peep about education.

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