r/startups • u/Hopeful-Background91 • 14h ago
I will not promote CEO hiring above original team, pulling work, is this normal? (I will not promote)
I was an early swe at a startup that is now growing fast. The CEO is very established in our field and managed to get us enough funding to expand, but I feel uneasy with how this is happening.
The early employees were all fresh grads from top colleges, I guess because we don’t need sleep and can build an MVP of just about anything given enough caffeine. We’ve done really well but now the hiring strategy is changing. The focus is now on bringing in people with 10+ years of experience in each little section of our project. Basically every new hire is significantly more senior than the original team, and rather than supporting or leading, they are just given our work to take over and we have to go find something else to do. The reasoning is that they “don’t have time to teach, we need to execute.” Sometimes we pitch new features / functionalities and the response is “don’t start that, we’ll hire someone who has done that before”. In many cases we have not been able to find such a person and so the work has been left undone for months.
I guess the feeling is that if we’re just going to hire more experienced people for everything, then what is the point of us grads in the company? Is this normal? Are we going to get fired?
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u/dashingThroughSnow12 13h ago
This is some senior advice to you: do it first then suggest.
Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, one of the all time historic greats in the field, popularized the saying “It is easier to ask forgiveness than to beg for permission.”
If you have a good idea, start writing it. Get it a fair chunk of the way done (mvp or near it) and then mention it. It is very easy to stonewall a developer; “no, that is too hard to do” or “let’s spend three weeks discussing what way to implement this”. When something is actually built, a lot of stonewalling goes away.
If they keep rejecting you repeatedly after that, then we can have a different conversation. Hopefully though it turns into them trusting you. And later when you ask for time or have an idea, they trust you more.
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u/metarinka 14h ago
Somewhat common strategy. Start with cheap or junior people to get something together then come in with experienced team to professionalize.
Now how the individual features are being made is a different story. Sounds like you don't have a pm or lead that's picking product in any conscious order?
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u/your_late 14h ago
Some of them will suck, a few should be great. I'd take it as a good sign you're expanding.
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u/datlankydude 14h ago
I mean, no offense, but sounds like the right strategy to me. What is surprising about the fact that the company is doing well and they’re bringing in senior people to take the lead on most things? That’s pretty normal.
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u/cornmacabre 9h ago
Agreed -- it's solid and pragmatic strategy. That said, what a raw and real and honest take OP has here, there's a lot of ground truth their perspective is totally valid.
My take is that it sounds like the culture change is signaling it's time to adapt for the OG junior folks; and to be blunt, it's likely an imminent 'up or out' moment.
The good news is that those are the times where there's plenty of opportunities to shift roles internally or carve out a niche. However, that requires proactivity and some savvy -- it prob won't be dictated top down.
There's also truly no shame in filing it as an experience 'win,' and moving on to the next opportunity elsewhere. Easy to say, hard to do. When the vibe is "we have to go find something else to do," that's an important signal.
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u/blbd 13h ago
It's a thing I see lots of startups and VCs swear is a good idea that I haven't ever personally seen go well when I was involved in it. It seems like one of those things that people put in business books (which are obsessed with recommending specialists over generalists) that seems to fail horribly any time you need to pivot or change or adjust something inside your startup on short notice because it doesn't work out.
I understand that you won't have somebody on staff for every area, and will always have some gaps to fill in, but I am more of a fan of letting the original people grow that know the history and the business context and giving them mentoring and support, than just hosing up their career and learning opportunities to bring in theoretically more senior people who didn't have to do the difficult crazy work to open the place and don't actually know what is going on or have startup skills because they only worked in big companies.
Hopefully there will be a day where this thinking dies out.
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u/TheBonnomiAgency 11h ago
That makes sense, but at the same time, a pile of entry-level coders isn't going suddenly realize the database architecture could be massively optimized, different design patterns should be used, or there are glaring holes in the security. They don't even know what they don't know yet, and there's no one there to teach them.
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u/bananaHammockMonkey 14h ago
A ceo that knows how to do it. Good on him. Witness, learn. Become better. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
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u/NubAutist 5h ago
Yes, learn to never trust management and not to go above & beyond, as said hard work will never be rewarded with anything beyond a mere slap on the back and a pink slip a few weeks later.
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u/RobertMacMillan 1h ago
really telling that this comment was downvoted (I voted you back up).
I'm glad the podcast watchers here have fun LARPing as temporarily embarrassed millionaires, or pretending they're like the 3-4 genuine startup CEOs in this thread.
What you said is pure fact, but more people knowing this means less useful people to take advantage of, so I doubt the sentiment will ever go over well on this sub.
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u/PhrulerApp 14h ago
It sounds like the only thing really missing from your various projects is experience.
I think it makes sense. You guys are good at breaking things and building mvps and the leadership is trying to find people who are good at the opposite to round things out.
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u/Mephisto6 13h ago
Many people have agreed that this is a good strategy. What is the best way the original people can stay relevant? I‘m in a similar boat but the original team is very research heavy, mostly PhDs. Is it less of a problem here because they can stay in RnD?
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u/TheBonnomiAgency 11h ago
Tough to give general advice, but they're probably highly specialized in data analysis or something related to the industry your in, not coding. Someone in the process needs to understand what the PhD's want to make and then translate it into what can actually be built. E.g. what's technically feasible within the current system, how it fits the architecture, UI/UX, how much time it will take to build, tasking it out, etc.
Show some genuine interest in what they're doing. At the very least you might learn something, and you might end up being the invaluable go-to person between departments.
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u/EkoChamberKryptonite 11h ago
What's with the comments? Is everyone missing the key context that these new seniors aren't being brought in to teach and mentor the current team. OP, I would start looking for other opportunities. This is the risk with startups.
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u/NoWarning789 13h ago
You can go to the CEO, CTO, or whoever is the right person and say something along the lines of: We seem to be doing well, hiring more experience and taking bigger challenges. I want to grow and take on bigger challenges too, learn in the process, so that in ten years, I can be like these guys.
Say it many times, plant it on the ears of everyone that will listen. At some point, someone will say something like "This is a hard problem, anyone that would step up to it?" and hopefully someone will mention your name.
I recommend reading Wild Courage.
I think you have a lot of opportunity popping up around you right now. You won't get everything you think you deserve for having been in the original team (hopefully that gave you a good chunk of equity), but you'll likely get a lot more than most people in most jobs.
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u/theredhype 13h ago
Learn as much as you can.
Soak up everything you can from this role.
And keep having conversations like this one intermittently to gather insights from others about how to get the most out of your first startup experience.
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u/Lupexlol 13h ago
You need a set of skills for a start up.
And a totally different set of skills for a scale up.
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u/worldDev 13h ago
Super common. As a company grows, so do the stakes and liability. Early on creativity and lower costs of fresh minds have some more value at the expense of long term sustainability, but at a certain stage you need to wrangle in risks and tighten up processes which is best done by people with more experience.
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u/WeCanApp 12h ago
As a founder, we have had this exact conversation in planning at my company. In general an MVP is built fast, and it has to be thrown away in order to scale. Generally it easier to reconstruct the entire system over a 4-6 month period by more senior engineers. At the same time, you generally don't send anyone away. This is a moment for you to grow, learn and become the senior engineers. Really a great time to shine, you are in for a wild, I mean wild ride. 😅🤣
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u/dragrimmar 12h ago
I was an early swe at a startup that is now growing fast.
need more context to determine your outcome.
how early are we talking? founding engineer ? do you have a number in your title (Senior Software Engineer III) ?
did you build the MVP? or was it already built and you worked on it aftewards.
I assume you have some equity in the startup, prob 1% or less.
If you dont have any of these, you are probably getting fired "soon".
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u/Catbeelove 11h ago edited 11h ago
Great way to gain experience. With new funding it may be required to hire senior management. They would need that eventually anyway for the expansion if big enough anyway. It’s sad and annoying but I would try to find out where you fit in now. Be ready to evolve somewhat and prove that you are ready for what the expansion brings or you may find yourself out of work
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u/TheBonnomiAgency 11h ago
Tough lesson in humility and life, but tech is hard, and you need experience and expertise, especially in certain areas. A pile of new grads simply isn't going to create bullet proof architecture and code on their own. You guys don't know what you don't know yet. Try to partner and learn from the seniors, help where you can, and show your value.
On the other hand, it also sounds mismanaged as hell to not bring in someone to delegate between the two groups. It is a bit of a red flag, as it could be a strategy to get you all to quit, but it could also be inexperience at the top or just a short-term speed bump.
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u/talks_about_ai 10h ago
Most of the time this can be a great thing. This will create opportunities to go and learn from more seasoned folks. If you plan to continue growing in this startup, personally would say lean into that. Most of the senior individuals within your department are probably going to leave after 2-3 years.
Very very difficult to keep engineers past that 2 year mark unless they have stock options and are willing to stay to see the vesting period through. On their departure, this presents opportunities to fill their gap and achieve more growth on your part.
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u/perduraadastra 9h ago
One positive thing is that maybe one of the new hires would be a good mentor for you. Learning hard lessons from someone more experienced can save you a ton of time later.
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u/MrJezza- 8h ago
The real question is whether they're investing in your growth or just sidelining you
Are they giving you stretch projects or mentorship opportunities with the new hires?
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u/Ok-Influence-4290 6h ago
‘I guess because we don’t need sleep and can build an MVP of just about anything given enough caffeine.’
This may sound horrible, but unless you’ve built a product from POC and taken it through to production, then support customers through onboarding, then maintained it and grown it.
You’ve got absolutely no idea how different those stages are.
If you really want to be an impactful engineer, stick around, get mentored and learn. The MVP bit is easy, it’s messy, it moves fast, and mistakes are encouraged and forgiven.
Now you will really understand engineering principles.
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u/LogicRaven_ 5h ago
Starting with juniors and hiring more experienced folks if things go well is usual.
Isolating juniors from experienced folks is not smart, but it happens.
Yes, you might be replaced.
I would try both proving your value at the current place and starting a search.
Ask the CEO about what is important. Talk with other devs, maybe one of the senior devs is willing to mentor you. Do something that is impactful and show the results.
Update your CV and apply.
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u/seobrien 39m ago
No. 90% of startups fail. Not going for anyone when that happens, and having poor people in the roles makes that more likely.
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u/Low-Opening25 16m ago
typical start-up capitalism. I would be looking for my next gig if I were you, it will only get worse from there. if you didn’t secure share options into your contract, consider yourself used.
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u/seobrien 12h ago
Yes. "original" has nothing to do with skilled and experienced. There comes a point, early, when the team has a moral, ethical, and fiscal responsibility to put the right people in the right places.
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u/RobertMacMillan 1h ago
Always interesting when the CEO honors the moral duty of scaling up and throws morals to the side when they toss out OP in a few weeks.
Moral is a synonym for "Money" in this way is it?
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u/NubAutist 5h ago edited 5h ago
As someone who was in almost the exact same position in a biotech startup: leave sooner rather than later. You and your initial colleagues were mere scaffolding used to build up the company to the point where the "real" talent could be brought on. Your expended resources at this point. Stay and you'll end up losing both time and money in the long term as 1.) I'd wager you barely got enough equity to outweigh the opportunity cost, even after the vesting schedule is complete, if you compare to what you'd make at FAANG or something comparable, and 2.) you're going to be learning much, much less from here on out than you were before, as resources expended on training you would most likely be better spent elsewhere.
Loyalty to an organization or management is merely a tool for said management to optimize the value they can extract from you versus the amount of compensation they pay out. You're merely a tool/resource, a means to an end, in business. You're not a teammate; you're a cog in a profit-generating machine that can be replaced at any time. Never forget that, and you'll both make more money & retain your sanity.
I'd say start applying to positions now in larger firms, and if you really want to re-enter the startup world, do what your replacements did once you've obtained more experience.
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u/Cool-Double-5392 14h ago
Sorry man, you guys got taken advantaged of. As long as you are getting paid just try finding a new spot
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u/FRELNCER 14h ago
Yes. It's called layering. Startups need and can afford different types of employees at different stages. As the company grows, people either adapt and advance or leave.