r/tacticalgear • u/Dravans • Jun 29 '25
Recommendations Can you climb ladders and negotiate other obstacles in your kit?
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u/Dry-Bank-110 Jun 29 '25
laughs in traditional leather fire helmet and SCBA
Yes
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
SCBA/PAPRs and other CBRN gear definitely make everything harder. Honestly the training mentality I have seen from a lot of Fire departments is something I would love to see brought into more fighting organizations. Also no one can manual breach like a firefighter who has invested time into being good with his halligan bar.
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u/Substantial_Water_86 Jun 29 '25
The subterranean breachers course that the Army ran for a while had you under SCBA, in a slag suit, and then full kit. It was rough.
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u/1nVrWallz Jun 30 '25
Yeah. 37 still has a pretty intense breacher course. There are teams specialize on sub T
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u/Substantial_Water_86 Jun 30 '25
Yeah we are going out to 27th EN at Bragg in July for a breaching symposium.
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u/Dry-Bank-110 Jun 29 '25
I can rat myself out. First scuttle hatch I had to climb through with an SCBA on, not an ounce of spatial awareness. Hours and hours of confidence courses with that pack and I tried to climb through it like I was my normal framed day off build.
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u/rm-minus-r Jun 29 '25
Why would anyone use a leather helmet in this day and age?
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u/Dry-Bank-110 Jun 29 '25
Because the fire service is over a century of tradition un-impeded by progress. We’d still be riding tail boards if they’d let us.
We hate change, but also the way things are.
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u/Fast-Wrangler-4340 Jun 30 '25
Hey now! That was our motto in the navy! I retired under that motto. Living proof that progress impedes no sailor
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Jun 29 '25
I’m afraid of height’s
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u/Souske90 Jun 29 '25
lemme tell you something: there are airborne qualified dudes who are scared of heights. in the end, it’s a matter of pushing through your fear.
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Jun 29 '25
I was joking 🙃
I’m not afraid of heights. Just social interaction
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u/Godless_Rose Jun 29 '25
I’m an airborne qualified dude who is afraid of heights AND social interaction.
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
“Get training” “go use your kit” Things that gets repeated over and over on the sub. However the majority of the training seen in posts is done on the flat range.
Flat range training is definitely important, however, something thing I’ve discovered is that a kit setup that makes for very fast split times on a flat range drill, may not work well to carry all the equipment needed for a mission. Then a kit setup to carry out a mission might not work when I have to ride in a vehicle, or climb ladders, or move a casualty, or do IMT, or move into and out of a rolled vehicle.
For me kit setup has been a constantly evolving process. I need the carrying capacity to bring enough stuff to be successful, but not so much that I can’t move.
I would recommend finding ways to train in a greater variety of situations and environments. How does your setup work with cold weather gear, how does it work when you have to cover several miles on foot with a pack, does it carry enough equipment? Now with all that equipment can I climb ladders and obstacles? Can I do IMTs without losing equipment? Does my weapons retention system work for me to perform aid to a casualty or detain a prisoner? If I have to fight someone will I end up like a turtle on its back?
Shooting, hiking, navigating, providing medical aid, riding in and quickly egressing vehicles, climbing and negotiating other obstacles, and doing it all in darkness are all important things to be doing to ensure that your kit really does work for you.
I know that for those of you who don’t do this for a living that requires some creativity to find places to train. I would recommend checking out my friend @the_paranoid_camper on IG to see some ways that a civilian team finds opportunities to conduct some really good training without access to government resources.
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u/specter491 Jun 29 '25
Mission dictates gear. If your mission is flat range performance then that's what your gonna gear up for. 80% of the people here have no mission besides look cool and prepare for "shtf"
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u/Office_Responsible Jun 29 '25
Prep for SHTF is funny since Kit and guns are not the end all be all. Plus most peoples idea of training is shooting on a flat range and ignores the actual field craft stuff that makes a weapon effective in someone’s hands, plus having a group to work with is important and we all know most of us are afraid of leaving moms basement. Standing up and shooting at 25m is a way to be dead very very fast, but hey the videos and split times are cool asf!
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Jun 30 '25
[deleted]
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u/Office_Responsible Jun 30 '25
100% loot drops. I grow stuff, but I’m new to it and I’m learning the ropes of actual preparedness. I’m lucky that I have a good community around me for it
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u/specter491 Jun 29 '25
Yeah but training on the flat range lets you take and post cool pics to increase your dopamine
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u/albedoTheRascal Jun 29 '25
Most "shtf" kits make me laugh. Crye and GBRS are just gonna be loot drops. Food and water are way too overlooked
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u/Pratt_ Jun 29 '25
Really well said !
I'd add that instead of trying to find the perfect solution for each situation, at some point it's about dilemmas.
Some essentials are going to make other aspects less optimal, the "perfect kit" doesn't exist and everyone should also know their strength and weakness and adapt their kit (in addition of training to reduce their weaknesses).
Like if you're resilient in long ruck march, well you can make your kit a bit less efficient in that regard if it helps you in an other aspect where it you struggle much more.
Knowing what to use when because it works for you and adapting your kit in that regard is much better than trying to find the perfect jack of all trades that doesn't exist.
And yeah you can only find what works for you by trying it, I tend to move things around, buy and sell stuff after each time in the field, especially when I'm confronted to something new, because I realized this did work for that mission, this did, thank God I had that, etc. And the next time I get a similar training I know what to use.
You used the example of winter gear, and indeed if it's not your job you instinctively don't usually confront yourself at this type of suck.
I remember struggling a lot with my plate carrier last time I was in the field because it was early spring and where I live it means you're gonna freeze your ass at night and during the day you will be cold af in the shadow, sweat in the sun, the weather will change 4 times but you will likely be wet at the end of the day in any case (and I was in an region of my country where it's even more pronounced). Well you put on or off layers way more often than during other seasons and I experienced one of the short comings of quick release systems in comparison to the classic velcro : velcro is super adaptive to changing the amount of cloth layers you have on yourself, quick release system, not at all...
I still use quick release systems on my new PC but how easy it was to quickly increase the length of the cummerbund influenced my choice.
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u/Substantial_Water_86 Jun 29 '25
Mission does dictate equipment but gear to a lesser extent. You’re going to always need certain things such as ammunition, water, first aid. You’re always going to carry your sensitive items on your person such as weapon, NVGs, etc.
The key here is finding the gear that allows you to carry the proper equipment and is flexible for many mission sets. You don’t need to throw on a sleeker plate carrier with less mags on it to get in and out of a vehicle. You train on getting in and out of the vehicle with what you have.
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
Correct, but you may find that where those mags are placed on your kit needs to change based on mobility considerations when you starting training in different environments.
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u/PanzerKatze96 Army Infantry Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
Yeah a lot of stuff that works for other people won’t for me because I spend days on the water boarding all kinda of different vessels. Cramped spaces.
Ladders especially
My flair is a bit old
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u/koithrow Jun 29 '25
never done ladders but ive done maze like thickets and underbrush. and climing trees and shit
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Jun 29 '25
This fall I think I’ll check out the local born maze seen
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u/gooningoosy Jun 29 '25
Perfect CQB training if there's zombies and vampires haunting the maze too.
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u/G4ming4D4ys Jun 29 '25
I've jumped through and climbed through various windows in my kit. And that was when I was overweight, now that I'm a healthy weight I'm going to be unstoppable!!!
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u/Different_Recording1 Jun 29 '25
Airsofter being once again able to answer "yes".
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
Airsoft does give you some good opportunities to use kit beyond just flat range. Especially if it’s a multi day event where you have to consider sustainment.
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u/Different_Recording1 Jun 29 '25
I wont lie, 1 man ladders (those where you have room barely for a standard male) are complicated for me with PC + "firearm". And accounting for the helmet to prevent bumping the head when under nods.
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u/Probably_Boz Jun 29 '25
i'd just go up the stairs. problem solved.
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
🤦♂️ Of course! Ugh why didn’t I think of that. I need to buy that truck from arrested development so I never have to climb again.
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u/Probably_Boz Jun 29 '25
the stair railing is right there in the picture you just gotta have proper situational awareness :)
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
lol, unfortunately those stairs didn’t go to the attic I was going to shoot from. Definitely would’ve made it easier.
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u/DetroitLionCity Jun 29 '25
Hey look a Dravans post with quality content.
Let's make the same tired joke over and over!
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u/SmellsLikeShame Jun 30 '25
Yeah. I used to be a roofer. That's basically running LBE - two hammers, nail gun, driver and impact usually, plus coils and screws. Also water and the other essentials.
Being in construction halfway taught me about ergonomics of setting up a belt or chest rig. And it taught me how to negotiate indoor obstacles and doorways without running into walls.
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u/glyphosate_enjoyer Jun 29 '25
Thinking about my next AT and this pic. How the fuck would the gun team navigate this. Sling setup maybe for the 240 but that's a fuckton of weight pulling on you backwards. Plus barrel bags and t&e... I'm pretty sure in my head I pictured us going up stairs in the CACTF site. Not a ladder. Thoughts?
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
We had the same problems with rucks and tripods putting sniper teams in attics. The 240 is actually pretty comparable weight to a Mk22. You may have to have a guy on the ground hand gear to guy on the ladder who then hands to a guy in the attack.
If the ladder is too tall for that you may have to setup a hauling system with static rope or tubular nylon similar to what you see for big wall climbing in mountain terrain (or tree stand hunters). I’d have the gunner climb with the 240 on their back and I’d sling the tripod to someone as well since they would make a ton of noise clanging up the ladder with a haul system. Packs and barrel bags can be hauled without creating too much noise though.
Machine gunning is not something I would consider myself to be an SME at though. It might be a question to ask the opinionated machine gunner on IG.
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u/glyphosate_enjoyer Jun 29 '25
Having terrible mental imagery right now of a 240 barrel falling on my face. The bulldog barrel bags suck ass too but I'm not shelling out a drill paycheck for a $350 nice one. Thanks for the response, praying for stairs but prepping for the ladder. I'm happy to be weapons squad but I'm trying out for the sniper section next year.
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
Good luck! Being a sniper is definitely the best job I’ve ever had. There is a reason guys will try their hardest to avoid promotion to stay in a sniper section as long as they possibly can.
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u/Highplain-Drifter Jun 29 '25
You need to tie off when exceeding 6’ in elevation on a ladder. I don’t see a 5 point harness. You really need to incorporate OSHA into your training /s
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u/AmeriJar Jun 29 '25
Climbing into a deer stand with my pack on and rifle slung was very interesting
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u/PearlButter Jun 29 '25
Yeah and it’s what taught me that flaps, bungee, whatever form of active retention is pretty important whether it’s for keeping your stuff protected from the elements or importantly not losing your shit.
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u/BullTerrierTerror Jun 29 '25
Can you swim in your kit?
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
I have swam in kit before, not in the kit photographed, but a kit that was setup specifically for water stuff.
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u/PBL89 Jun 29 '25
It’s always the simplest things that really humble you when trialing your kit and gear
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u/Vwguy89 Jun 29 '25
I've climbed onto the top of an armored vehicle in a bomb suit to clear a VBIED, if that counts?
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u/Open-that-door Jul 01 '25
Yeah, absolutely. I can't tell how many times I recalled the L.E in training & regular grunts carried tons of unnecessary pouches, ridiculous admin stuff in front of the plate carrier. Making them looks like pregnant for 3 months and have ever since prevented them to perform any sort of climbing or advanced insertion techniques easily.
At the end, I will make sure my rigs are combat oriented since most folks aren't medics or combat engineers/recon that carries breaching tools and surveillance kits anyway.
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u/Booga-_- Jun 29 '25
I do usually converse with stairs or ladders. I’m more of a talk to the wall kinda guy.
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u/doomtoothx Jun 29 '25
I’ve thought the same thing. I wonder how people would handle the mountain by my house. The forests are dense and go for hundreds of miles in any direction. They are absolutely covered in mountain laurel so thick it might as well be a wall and multiflora rose just as thick. Going ten miles can take half a day due to the lack of trails. Nasty business.
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u/SunTzusIntern Jun 29 '25
Always good to see people practicing with their shit!
Kit should generally match the tasks its designed for, so its not really surprising that most kits we see are suitable for flat range and comp type settings. But yeah, people building "combat" kits should definitely be testing their shit live. Lots of dudes out there with backpanels for bangers but no one to stack up infront of.
I think a major issue though is affordable access to training areas. I was unpleasantly surprised by how few facilities are built with practical training in mind AND open to the public. Can't really even think of a public range near me that would be open to doing ladder work, let alone combining it with live fire.
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
It definitely requires a lot of creativity to get well rounded training as a civilian.
For the specific example of climbing a ladder and shooting. I’ve seen people who have used ladders onto hay bales with land owner permission. Networking is huge and having a community of like minded people to train with who can get access to land to train on helps significantly.
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u/apt64 Jun 29 '25
I just wear my kits to the local corn mazes in fall. I’m usually asked to leave because I am frightening their patrons. I don’t usually encounter ladders there.
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u/firemansam51 Connoisseur of Autism Patches Jun 29 '25
Yes, and I can also rappel off a building in full kit as well.
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u/Bubbabeast91 Jun 29 '25
Haven't had the opportunity to climb a ladder in kit. I have done some hiking in mountainous terrain, and have navigated basic nature, tree limbs, rocks, etc. But haven't gone hurdle jumping or anything lol.
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u/Ryman43 Jun 29 '25
I’ve squeezed through a scuttle with an SCBA and firefighting helmet. A latter with kit on shouldn’t be hard almost no matter what.
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u/AngryAccountant31 Jun 29 '25
I jumped over a fence yesterday while holding a beer so I feel very agile now
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u/bmadd14 Jun 29 '25
I prefer navigating instead. Last time a ladder talked to me, we had a big problem.
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u/c_pardue Jun 29 '25
i play indoor airsoft in my kit and i must say, every other adult i see who shows up in their kit can barely even manage a light jog, even when they're being actively chased by someone shooting at them.
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u/Linkstas Jun 29 '25
It’s hard for me to find ladders rated for over 350 pounds. I think there is a big market for ladders for big guys like me.
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u/Embarrassed_Recover8 Jun 30 '25
Okay, so.... I feel like my rifle when I'm in kit, is just absolutely like walking with a big log in my hands.... What slings are you guys running? Which arm is it supposed to go under? I need help.
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u/Dravans Jun 30 '25 edited Jun 30 '25
I sew my own personally. But they’re basically the same as the ferro slingster, Blue force gear, T. rex arms, etc. in that they have a quick adjustment with a closed loop so there is no tail.
https://youtu.be/iRTvOOS1KzE?si=iI6W8YLSJ8EdvjWb
I personally never use a rifle sling in a single point mode, but the way that he sets it up for 2 point use and puts in on his back is the same method I use. I did the same thing to put my rifle on my back in the photo used for this post.
If you look through my post history you can see how a teammate rigged up shock cord retention for his MP7 and how I used a magnet and retention hook to retain a 40mm. Those are also some options to get a rifle out of your way if you need both of your hands.
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u/tr1cky_tr3v Jun 30 '25
Treyarch—COD 3: I can do all things through Call of Duty which strengthens me.
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u/hockeymaskbob Jun 29 '25
Ladders? Try climbing over a barb wire fence in full kit with a slung rifle.
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u/Dravans Jun 29 '25
I have, it’s not pleasant!
Honestly small units should have an SOP and train barbed wire fence crossings. In addition to maintaining security and accountability like you would any LDA crossing, you have to worry about holding the fence open for guys crossing and or handing rucks through/ over the fence. Also if you take contact while crossing you have to decide whether to finish crossing or bring guys back who have crossed since it’s not a simple as just crossing a road.
Just cutting the fence may not be an option if you’re concerned about counter tracking.
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u/Accomplished-Lab537 Jun 29 '25
Over... I cut the wire every time.
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u/RegularOleTNGuy Jun 29 '25
First they say, "go outside & touch grass."
Now they say, "go inside & touch ladders."
I say, "Make up your damn mind!"