r/technology • u/lurker_bee • 23h ago

Biotechnology Burkina Faso says no to Bill Gates’ plan of creating modified species of mosquitoes

https://africa.businessinsider.com/local/lifestyle/burkina-faso-says-no-to-bill-gates-plan-of-creating-modified-species-of-mosquitoes/xyk7xm8
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87

u/WillingLake623 22h ago

Why would an Africa nation trust the west after they raped and pillaged and continue to rape and pillage the entire continent?

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u/nonhiphipster 22h ago

Because “The West” shouldn’t be confused with literially everyone in the western hemisphere of the planet

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u/coolcosmos 22h ago

Bill Gates isn't anybody.

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u/Prior_Coyote_4376 21h ago

People need to stop thinking they are ever going to get the individual property rights and influence billionaires command. They’re lawnmowers.

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u/Logical-Breakfast966 15h ago

Ya Bill Gates has proven over and over to be trustworthy and have these peoples best interests at heart. It’s reactionary to turn away this program and it shouldn’t be excused

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u/Gunhild 14h ago

Bill Gates was on the flight logs.

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u/ikiice 14h ago

Bill gates destroyed patent free covid vaccine project, leading to destruction what was supposed to be catalyst for biotech development in Africa - and as a result covid vaccines are much more expensive in Africa than in west

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u/AnEmptyBoat27 21h ago

Western oligarchs using their unmatched wealth to influence other governments for the benefit of capitalists has nothing to do with western capitalism

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u/Moifaso 16h ago

Enlighten me on how Bill Gates influenced Burkina Faso through this aid program

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u/sorry-not-tory 20h ago

… are pretending that eastern oligarchs are any different?

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u/AnEmptyBoat27 20h ago

No. If I say cancer is bad, it doesn’t mean I’m saying aids is fine

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u/Dapperrevolutionary 20h ago

Like eastern oligarchs are any different

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u/Logical-Breakfast966 15h ago

Bill Gates has saved millions of lives through his foundation. This program would have saved millions more if successful. Just because you hate billionaires doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be fighting malaria

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u/[deleted] 15h ago

[deleted]

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u/Logical-Breakfast966 15h ago

That’s literally what he was doing

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u/rewind2482 14h ago

what do you think Bill Gates stands to gain from influencing Burkina Faso

This is insanity

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u/AnEmptyBoat27 12h ago

The same thing USAID or the belt and road project were/are doing. Gaining soft power. Burkina Faso has ample natural resources and global supply chains are likely to see disruption in the near future. Having supplemental connections to natural resources could be hugely influential particularly with an unstable regime. Political in roads could help install a more favorable government in Gates’ interest.

I would be equally skeptical of Jack Ma spending billions on “charity” near uranium deposits.

I don’t believe it’s insane to think that the richest people on earth may make decisions based on their financial interests rather than the good of people in the third world.

0

u/rewind2482 11h ago

What is Gates’ interest, exactly?

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u/AnEmptyBoat27 9h ago

Money and power

0

u/Quasar375 6h ago

Oh, so the millionaire wants more influence and he is willing to do it by giving vaccines and investing in the local population. But it is better to just die from malaria I guess. With Malaria you just die, while accepting help from Gates makes you feel bad for participating in capitalism, right?

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u/BrazilianTerror 22h ago

Bill Gates pushed african countries to literally prohibit trading seeds with neighbors so that people are forces to buy from monsanto, etc. and guess who owns a lot of shares of monsanto?

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u/shish-kebab 21h ago

Sources?

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u/evildeliverance 21h ago

A quick google search shows they are not entirely making it up, just manipulatively framing it in the worst possible light. AGRA is pushing for regulation that favors the use of modern high yield seeds. The idea is that more food per acre of crop means less starving kids.

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u/ahundreddollarbills 21h ago edited 20h ago

OP just making shit up, connected shit together to make a stupid story.

As far as I can tell, The foundation is just pushing for more GM seeds and industrialization of farming. Both of which many people do not like but the foundation sees it as a way to feed more people.

At the same time that this is happening, many actors in Mali are working to strengthen industrial seed systems, in particular by encouraging laws that allow greater participation of private companies in various aspects of seed production and commercialisation. These efforts are supported by programmes such as the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa, which is supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

and

in 2012 the Tanzanian government passed a Plant Breeders’ Rights Act. The Act goes beyond the requirement of UPOV ’91. If farmers use and exchange so-called protected seeds without the authorisation of the breeder, they face punishment under criminal rather than civil law. This means that on top of paying fines, they may be liable to imprisonment. Since the law applies to industrial rather than peasant seeds, the Tanzanian government is telling farmers not to worry, as the law does not concern them.

source

I don't know how or if those two are connected to the gates foundation, but that won't stop some story taking hold about how Bill Gates is poisoning our food.

As for the Monsanto shares, the only info I could find was a purchase of 500,000 shares back in 2010. 500,000 shares is a lot for the common person, but in this case it was only 23m, adjusting for todays stock price it would still be worth only about 67m A drop in the bucket compared to the 77 billion dollar endowment the foundation has. The foundation has 10x more money in Walmart (about 700m) but no one is trying to spin a story that he is responsible for walmart's price increases.

source

TL;DR

Gates is pushing for more GM seeds and industrial farming, locals upset and GMO critics worked up too.

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u/Immediate_Map235 21h ago

do you know how to use google?

edit: wow look i googled 'bill gates monsanto' for you and the algorithm put together all the sources you could want

https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+gates+Monsanto&oq=bill+gates+Monsanto+&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l5.3004j0j7&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

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u/2_Cranez 21h ago

Your google search doesn't back what you're saying at all. Feel free to link an actual source, but none of the top results on Google back you up.

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u/Immediate_Map235 21h ago

the google AI summary contains links to every source. You seem to just be talking out your ass because your bias causes you to disagree. I am correct tho

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u/2_Cranez 21h ago

I read the AI summary. It doesn't say that. Not only are you too lazy to find a source you are too lazy to even use AI to find a source.

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u/eggnogui 21h ago

Uses AI and claims victory

Thank you for letting me know you aren't worth having serious conversations with.

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u/Schmackter 21h ago

Did you read the thing you posted?

It literally explains that it was for altruistic / non-nefarious reasons. It's fine to take issue with supporting Monsanto, or the plan / methods but it still supports the argument that Bill Gates was engaging in philanthropy to help the food insecure.

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u/Immediate_Map235 21h ago

Source?

the link I posted on my end says:

"Motivation: The foundation sought to support the proliferation of Monsanto's genetically engineered crops in the developing world, with goals to increase yields and reduce food insecurity.

Criticism:

This investment drew heavy criticism for a variety of reasons:

Support for GM Crops: Critics argued the foundation was supporting GM crops and technologies that have faced significant opposition and demonstrated limited success in some contexts.

Farmer Rights: The investment was seen as a backing of Monsanto's controversial history of prosecuting farmers for saving seeds, which negatively impacted small farmers.

Ecological Concerns: Activists and critics like Vandana Shiva accused Gates of promoting a failed approach to agriculture, similar to the original Green Revolution, that relies on chemical inputs and patents, rather than ecological and sustainable farming methods.

"Philanthropic Capitalism": Shiva characterized Gates' approach as a harmful and self-serving agenda, "philanthropic capitalism," that serves to create new forms of ownership and control over seeds and agricultural systems."

the first goal was increasing yields, not reducing insecurity, and that is the stated goal. The following 4 paragraphs explain the flaws and critiques leveled at this goal and why it is largely rejected by members of the nation states targeted.

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u/CardOk755 21h ago

This is LLM output. Produce something written by someone or something that can think.

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u/Immediate_Map235 21h ago

You are a person who can think refusing to do your own research and when provided an easy solution tailor-made for people who can't do their own work, criticizing the guy who made it easy for you. okay!

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u/CardOk755 21h ago

I already did my research. I know Burkinabè people, both in country and out of it. I know of Burkinabè who have been murdered by Traoré 's junta.

I don't need LLM "summaries" because I know that they are not summaries, merely strings of text that superficially resemble the data they've been fed.

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u/WestEndOtter 21h ago

Monsanto sell various seeds. It is more like "would you like to buy standard seeds which you can trade or double sized seeds which you agree to not trade?" Most farmers prefer the latter

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u/venom21685 21h ago

It's not a new thing either. Even without patent protection for GM seeds, many hybrid varieties are undesirable to save the seed because the hybrid traits are not stable from generation to generation. So even if you plant super duper seeds the plants grow and reproduce seeds that aren't quite as super duper.

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u/WestEndOtter 20h ago

People also don't factor on that they probably spend about $2 billion on research for a new trait, so they can either charge the first farmer $2.2 billion to share as much as he wants, or they can charge each farmer $10k/year and make them promise not to share and know they will only break even after 3 years and start profiting from year 4

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u/BrazilianTerror 19h ago

Not true. It’s literally illegal to trade seeds with the neighbors, even normal ones.

https://youtu.be/KO3-xkVACgE?si=mi_g9ZkfF1j4x-cb

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u/WestEndOtter 19h ago

It is legal to trade seeds. Only specific seeds are protected by patents(where you sign an agreement when buying explaining the requirements when buying).

I have literally sat in meetings with monsanto legal team discussing this topic, what is and isn't allowed.

Have you previously signed a monsanto BT gene agreement?

0

u/BrazilianTerror 18h ago

Did you even watch the video?

0

u/WestEndOtter 17h ago

That is a very simplified video. I have worked with several companies in that video.

How should seed research companies react when 95% of farmers are demanding the best monsanto varieties and as a non gmo supplier you cannot supply them? Do you close up your business?

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u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 13h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Gloomy-Ad1171 21h ago

Trump fucks kids

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u/m3thodm4n021 21h ago

You're as dumb as the maga folks if you actually believe that. But Alex Jones agrees with you if that makes you feel better

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u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi 21h ago

If the "absolute worst parts of western capitalism and exploitation" is spending billions upon billions to get rid of diseases like malaria, HIV and neglected tropical diseases then the world would be a utopia.

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u/THE_IRL_JESUS 21h ago

The absolute worst?

At least he gives vast amounts to charity, surely someone like Musk would be worse.

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u/Soft-Butterfly7532 21h ago

He gives away what he exploited from workers to charity? Yeah, really generous.

It should never have been his in the first place. That's the point.

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u/haarschmuck 21h ago

Bill Gates was an asshole during his time at Msoft but using that to take away the good he has done with his foundation is insane.

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u/Ok-Self5588 20h ago

Bill gates is an arm of America, the worst offender. Not trusting him is the wisest thing any country can do

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u/DynamicNostalgia 22h ago

“Racism is okay when it’s against white people.”

  • Reddit

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u/legshampoo 21h ago

ok ‘western oligarchs and capitalists’

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u/Wompish66 22h ago edited 22h ago

The man who turned it down is a dictator that took over the country in a coup.

Not long after Russia's Wagner Group arrived.

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u/TXDobber 20h ago

And is currently losing a war to jihadists who are going around raping and pillaging villages, massacring soldiers, etc

While Traore sits in the capital, allowing Africa Corps (yes, Russia really named their Wagner replacement the fucking Africa Corps) to plunder the country for its gold, just as they are doing in Mali.

0

u/En_CHILL_ada 16h ago

The same jihadist groups spawned by western intervention in Libya?

I wonder where they're getting their weapons from....

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u/Quasar375 6h ago

Lmao shut the fuck up. The french were already fighting those terrorists before. Not everything bad that happens in África is orchestrated by "The West".

Terrorists attacked the Sahel, french went to solve the situation AT THE REQUEST OF THE SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES and are quite successful. Suddenly, after severe russian propaganda, military juntas take control of the countries and kick the french out (why did the evil scheming french allow that? They already had their army there to dissolve the juntas if they wanted to).

Now russian mercenaries are the new allies of the Sahel, but turns out they are quite shit, so terrorists in Toyotas are able to ambush them and spread chaos.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

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u/Wompish66 21h ago edited 21h ago

Yes, that's how he portrays himself.

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u/TXDobber 20h ago

Don’t worry, Burkina Faso will be an JNIM (Al-Qaeda) led state sometime in the near future, because the brave African strongman who kicked out the French doesnt know how to best Jihadis.

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u/Snigglybear 17h ago

So the French got replaced by the Russians? At least the French actually purchased the resources.

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u/TXDobber 17h ago

And at least the French could actually hold back the Jihadists, something neither these Sahel militaries or the Russian mercenaries seem capable of.

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u/TripleDet 22h ago

A. Has nothing to do with the commenters point. B. Mind your business. Let them sort it out. Unless you think we should go “liberate” them?

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u/Wompish66 22h ago

Mind your business. Let them sort it out. Unless you think we should go “liberate” them?

No, I'll continue to share my opinion of a tin pot dictator.

Traore would love someone like you.

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u/Str0nglyW0rded 22h ago

Don’t worry, china is having its own hold my beer moment with Africa.

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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 22h ago

Every western idiot goes straight to "b-but China" as if we dont have hundreds of years of documented European and American brutality far worse than anything China has ever done to an African nation. Which is basically just loans btw.

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u/bgg-uglywalrus 22h ago

Nah, see it's different because they were white and so you have to forgive them. /s

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u/MuyalHix 20h ago

Colonialism is funny.

A country can come in, destroy your culture and commit all the atrocities they want, but you are supposed to forgive them and never bring it up.

Then they get all angry when you choose to trade with someone else.

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u/Rodot 21h ago

Fun that, the net sum of all Chinese investment in Africa is less than the value McDonald's

Apple has invested more money in China than the Marshall plan, even adjusted for inflation

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u/Matshelge 22h ago

Just loans? That you say this means you have a very simplistic view of colonization and what China is doing right now.

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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 22h ago

I dont see the Chinese military bases littering the continent, taskmasters cutting off the hands of child slaves, slave ships, or anything else Europeans and Americans did.

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u/TXDobber 20h ago

Oh but Russian military bases are… anyone who knows literally anything about the war in the Sahel right now (which these tinpot military strong men are losing btw) knowing just how wrong you sound.

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u/Omnipotent48 20h ago

How tf did you see a discussion about China and immediately hit the "but Russia!" button as if that's relevant to Chinese loans?

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u/Cute-Percentage-6660 19h ago

Im ignorant, can you elaborate for those of us who do not know

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u/Synth_Sapiens 22h ago

"just (unpayable) loans"

lmao

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u/tafoya77n 17h ago

Yep the a thing the west would never do. We'd attach requirements to restructure their entire economy and make sure healthcare is on the chopping block.

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u/Synth_Sapiens 17h ago

Imagine believing that there's any "healthcare" to speak of.

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u/Dokramuh 21h ago

I'm going to lose my mind. What do you think the IMF is? Except china isn't doing the whole instigation of civil war, regime change, colonization, etc that the west has historically done.

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u/Synth_Sapiens 21h ago

China isn't doing what? 

ROFLMAOAAA 

Imagine being this illiterate. 

You really should look up relations of China and neighboring countries. 

-5

u/PolydamasTheSeer 20h ago

China gets along well with most of its neighbours tho?

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u/Gyuttin 20h ago

Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, India, Tibet, Mongolia, would like a word with you

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u/Synth_Sapiens 20h ago

You forgot to include Russia

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u/Gyuttin 20h ago

They get along with Russia more than any nation I listed there so don’t feel like it belonged, but yea their relationship just extends to anti-west

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u/Synth_Sapiens 20h ago

Sweet summer child...

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u/PolydamasTheSeer 20h ago

So you can’t even defend your own posts? Lol. Average IQ of China haters tend to be so low.

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u/AccomplishedFail2247 20h ago

I am currently learning Mandarin Chinese and adore the country, but be so for real that China is nothing but the other side of the American coin lmao

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u/JFHermes 21h ago

like most people's college degrees or the US national debt.

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u/harryoldballsack 22h ago edited 20h ago

History vs present

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u/MuyalHix 20h ago

The west has been fucking over Africa even to this day...

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u/ModernJazz-2K20 20h ago

Yep, see AFRICOM as a perfect example. Folks can visit the Black Alliance for Peace website to get an entire breakdown and analysis of that program. We update it every month.

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u/harryoldballsack 20h ago edited 20h ago

Not really. The west has withdrawn a lot. Russia and Turkey are more involved than European nations. And China off the charts.

US and maybe Europe probably will start to get back in but probably too late.

China already manages the majority on most rare minerals and they’re not slowing down

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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 22h ago

And as we can see with the west fully supporting genocide in the middle east right now, history has no real bearing on the present.

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u/harryoldballsack 21h ago

It's important that you learn from the past but not let it hold you back. To just take one country at a time instead of the boogyman. You've got to admit partnering with the netherlands now is quite a different prospect than in the 1700s.

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u/andrew5500 21h ago

Fully supporting? Must've missed all the protests

Unless you're implying unilateral decisions by a world leader condemns every civilian under their rule as "full supporters". In which case......

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u/Psychobob2213 22h ago

Give them time. China has our playbook and is iterating it as fast as they can everywhere they can.

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u/man_gomer_lot 22h ago edited 22h ago

Either you are completely unaware of king Leopold II or are slandering the Chinese to be as depraved and barbaric as the Belgians.

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u/ForrestCFB 22h ago

Yes, because we all know china in it's history hasn't murdered millions right?

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u/Shroombie 22h ago

Not in Africa they haven’t

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u/ForrestCFB 21h ago

So that makes them somehow not barbaric? Because asian lives don't matter?

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u/Shroombie 21h ago edited 21h ago

“You can say I like pancakes and people will say you hate waffles”

Don’t put words in my mouth like a dipshit. It’s pretty fucking obvious that African leaders would care more about issues that affect Africa, the same way European leaders care more about Ukraine than they do the conflict in Sudan.

Edit: and more to the point, America has also killed and enslaved millions of people in very recent history, and for explicitly ethnic and racial reasons. China is hardly unique.

0

u/ForrestCFB 21h ago

Your point being?

You acted like europe was barbaric, ofcourse we as humans care more about people closer too us.

But in the end we are all the same barbarians, acting like it isn't that way is racist as fuck.

China is hardly unique.

No shit, you were the one arguing China wasn't that bad and that Belgium was worse. You are trying to twist the argument and move the goalpost here.

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u/M0therN4ture 21h ago

They are running mines as slave operations, even doing completely illegal mining as part of "deals".

https://www.mining-technology.com/features/arrests-and-attacks-tracking-chinas-illegal-mining-in-african-countries/

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u/Shroombie 21h ago edited 21h ago

And again, if you think this is unique to the Chinese I have a bridge to sell you. The French do this, the Belgians do this, the British do this, the Canadians do this, the Americans do this.

I mean a five second look at the history of De Beers will tell you all you need to know about why, even given the abuses given in the article you linked, African leaders still prefer China.

Edit: u/M0therN4ture blocked me, just goes to show the intellectual dishonesty of these people. I genuinely do not understand the point of replying to a comment asking for sources, and then blocking the person you are asking for sources. It just shows a deep commitment to pre-existing biases and an unwillingness to learn.

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u/M0therN4ture 21h ago

The French do this, the Belgians do this, the British do this, the Canadians do this, the Americans do this.

Source?

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u/ItemFast 22h ago

Something tells me you are unaware of the Chinese equivalent. You basically saying because they didn’t do it in the recent 250 years to you they are better than west….listen to what Chinese neighbors say about they. Malaysia Taiwan Australia Korea

You will start noticing that they aren’t so different. You view is gullible thinking any super power nation is “better”

“They have only done loans” Wait and see what happens when those loans collapse and they start taking your land as repayments.

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u/andrew5500 21h ago

So the crimes of a European monarch from 120-140 years ago are being used to judge the modern secular democratic West? Let me be clear, is that a standard we’re holding China and other modern countries to, as well?

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u/man_gomer_lot 21h ago

You just pulled an uno reverse. Nice work.

0

u/andrew5500 21h ago

Sorry, I don’t play Uno, and you didn’t answer the question

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u/man_gomer_lot 21h ago

My comment was in response to something. You've removed it from that context and painted it as the very thing I was critiquing. That's the uno reverse you played and a non starter of a response to my point.

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u/andrew5500 21h ago

Yes, the context has been removed. The context is Bill Gates fighting Malaria in Africa. And Bill Gates is not King Leopold II, and King Leopold II is not relevant to whether African leaders should accept help from Bill Gates or not...

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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 22h ago

Classic Western projection.

"We did evil shit so the Chinese will too, but WORSE"

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u/Psychobob2213 22h ago

They are actively engaged in it.

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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 21h ago

Have you ever read about what the Belgians did in Congo? You are very confused.

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u/droans 21h ago

"Slavery is bad. We shouldn't be doing it."

"Well, that's not what a Belgian king thought two hundred years ago, you hypocrite!'

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u/Psychobob2213 21h ago

I have. No defense for it other than greed.

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u/humdinged 21h ago

Cool but they’re actively practicing debt slavery and cultural genocide.

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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 21h ago edited 21h ago

"Cultural genocide"

Hahahahaha while the US and Europe do an actual genocide in Gaza. You people are beyond parody

Edit: you deleted that comment but I still saw it zionist.

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u/ItemFast 22h ago

What do you mean Chinese will…they already fucking did to their neighbor china is built on several kantons and terrorized everyone around them for years. They have killed their own student in taimen square and slave traded around SEA. It’s not projection they aren’t different

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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 21h ago

Nothing you said is true, or even approaches the scale of cruelty that the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade and the countless ethnic cleansings, assassinations, mass killings the US and Europeans backed within the continent over centuries to maintain their dominance.

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u/ItemFast 21h ago

You’re dodging the point. Nobody is denying the brutality of the Trans Atlantic slave trade, Even the Trans Atlantic slave trade wasn’t a one way atrocity. Plenty of African kingdoms (Dahomey, Oyo, Ashanti) actively captured and sold slaves to Europeans for profit. So if your point is that only Europe bears the blame, that’s historically wrong. but this doesn’t erase China’s long record of violence and oppression especially toward its neighbors in SEA. Vietnam & Korea: For centuries, China invaded, occupied, and tried to assimilate neighboring cultures, forcing tribute systems and mass killings when people resisted. South China Sea today: They’ve militarized and stolen territory from Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, etc., sinking fishing boats and harassing locals whose livelihoods depend on the waters. Cambodia & Laos: Historically treated as tributary states, repeatedly invaded when they resisted Beijing’s control. SEA slave trade: Chinese traders were heavily involved in trafficking women and laborers across SEA for centuries, a system of exploitation that echoes today in forced labor tied to Chinese criminal syndicates. Modern influence: From financing brutal regimes like the Khmer Rouge, to propping up dictatorships with weapons and debt traps, China has exported repression to SEA.

And that’s on top of Tiananmen, Xinjiang re education camps, Tibet, and the crushing of Hong Kong.

Atrocities aren’t a competition. Pointing out China’s brutality doesn’t diminish Europe’s history it just means both can and should be condemned. However, you pre disposed to view once as worse since your history probably reflects on it.

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u/iupuiclubs 22h ago

If China was using our playbook they wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as they are lol.

The Chinese are like Americans cracked out, they do not need our philosophy to further themselves lol, they already have one.

Whens the last time you met an American that works 6 days a week the entire year except for 2 weeks of Chinese new year. You haven't.

We aren't competitive, we were only competitive because the rest of the world was ravished repeatedly in the world wars.

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u/Psychobob2213 21h ago

"Whens the last time you met an American that works 6 days a week the entire year except for 2 weeks of Chinese new year. You haven't."

Personally, I know dozens of them. American Capitalism is a ruinous endeavor.

0

u/Slammybutt 21h ago edited 21h ago

Shows this guy lives in a bubble. Edit: the guy above you, not you.

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u/MuyalHix 21h ago

Whens the last time you met an American that works 6 days a week the entire year except for 2 weeks of Chinese new year. You haven't.

Because you export all of that to other countries. Why do you think your iPhones are so cheap?

1

u/Slammybutt 21h ago

My last job i never got a single day off work unless I paid someone to cover. I certainly didnt get vacation and that line of work is in literally every single city or town in the Country.

You gotta be pretty fucking sheltered to think America doesnt have employees that work 6 days a week with 2 weeks vacation.

1

u/sorry-not-tory 20h ago

In 2023, Africa received $60 billion in aid - mostly from the west. Not a loan, just donations. Just in one year.

But keep bragging about those predatory loans that will be used as collateral in the future.

1

u/Dapperrevolutionary 20h ago

Don't forget Arab brutality or fellow African brutality.

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u/Fine-Side-739 22h ago

Bro what have i done to be grouped in people who are dead and i have never known? should i make current americans jailed because they used two nukes?

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u/Aaarya 21h ago

Nah just elect a Cancervative like Trump.. and he will do stupid shit that will make us forget the fucking nukes.

-2

u/krutacautious 21h ago

anything China has ever done to an African nation. Which is basically just loans btw.

Many African countries even refuse to repay those loans. It forces Chinese banks to forgive them. Despite the vast Western military presence in Africa, there is a reason the West refuses to invest in African infrastructure development projects.

China does benefit from it as well. It gain diplomatic support from African countries because of its investments and also receives some natural resources. But still, about 50% of rare earth minerals come from China itself, and China mainly dominates the refining process, about 90% of it takes place within China.

-1

u/harryoldballsack 21h ago

Usually restructuring those loans to get more resources.

You could make the same arguments in the 1800s. The middle east and Europe did a fair amount of loans, investment and refining rare earth minerals.

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u/Remote_Cantaloupe 20h ago

hundreds of years of documented European and American brutality

This is just racism, plain and simple.

0

u/justforthisjoke 11h ago

It's racism to point out the west's love affair with colonialism? Damn, sorry, I forgot white Americans were actually the victims of the transatlantic slave trade

16

u/HugaBoog 22h ago

I don't see any Chinese troops in Africa pointing guns at their heads. And before you say debt trap, these countries are willingly taking on Chinese backed loans. And I further raise you IMF. Predatory lending at its finest.

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u/Pristine_Pick823 22h ago

Do yourself a favour and google: "Chinese mercenaries in Africa" and "Hua Xin Zhong". Pretty much the same model France, the US and Russia have been employing in there since the 90s...

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u/MadRhonin 22h ago

Ah, because China wouldn't know anything about predatory lending...

42

u/WillingLake623 22h ago

“Every time China visits we get a bridge. Every time Europe visits we get a lecture.”

15

u/TXDobber 20h ago edited 20h ago

The lecture is usually something like stop allowing gay people to be the victims of pogroms, stop engaging in rampant corruption that leaves your country stagnant, stop pocketing the money you make from resource extraction and start reinvesting into your domestic economy.

But what do you expect from tinpot African leaders who have been in power for decades, who wish to have their holiday to Europe, their Ferraris, send their kids to university in England, and to still be allowed to rule as lords over their citizens who remain little more than peasants.

0

u/MuyalHix 20h ago

The lecture is usually something like stop allowing gay people to be the victims of pogroms...

All of that goes out the window when the west actually does something in Africa.

Almost all history of Africa has been the west imposing a dictator that was economically aligned with them, no matter how homophobic and authoritarian they are.

Or even worse, they completely fuck up the region without any clear vision of what to do next (like in Libya).

1

u/TXDobber 20h ago

Ah yes, it was the west who forced those gay people to get killed, it was the west who forced those Islamists to form sharia courts in northern Nigeria. It was the west who forced them to engage in no democracy, to kill or jail their political opponents, to blatantly make corrupt deals to enrich themselves, all things forced upon them by the west. it was the west who now forces thousands upon thousands of subsaharan African men to flee their countries to go work in the west.

At some point, African leaders are gonna have to take charge and actually lead instead of seeing political office as a power grab, and a business opportunity.

Just because Africa is disadvantaged geographically does not mean you should spend forever cursing the west for their problems as if they had no problems (disease, war, ethnic hatred, immense poverty) long before the west showed up.

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u/SirPseudonymous 18h ago

Ah yes, it was the west who forced those gay people to get killed

Quite literally yes, American Evangelicals have intervened heavily to spread homophobia and support homophobic legislation, and even before that it was European colonial authorities that established homophobic legislation in the first place.

1

u/MuyalHix 19h ago

>It was the west who forced them to engage in no democracy, to kill or jail their political opponents, to blatantly make corrupt deals to enrich themselves

Uh, yes, this did actually happen

>At some point, African leaders are gonna have to take charge and actually lead

If they do that, the west complains about their economic interests getting threatened, and acts all surprised when they prefer to trade with Russia or China.

The west doesn't really care about authoritarianism or human rights in Africa. It is all economy.

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u/TXDobber 19h ago edited 18h ago

Remind me who needs those African resources? Pop over to OEC and look at those trade flows. Who needs Congolese cobalt? Who needs Guinean bauxite? Who needs South African titanium? Who needs Gabonese mahogany?

These are all China needs, China’s entire economy depends on easy flows of raw resources from Africa that they then manufacture into goods for the world that they sell.

And it’s the UAE who is plundering African gold by the tonnes, buying from black market artisanal miners in Mali, in Chad, in Ghana, leveraging their ties with the RSF in Sudan where they trade guns, ammunition, and drones for access to gold.

Be mad at the French for still having fiscal leverage over some western African economies, the west is not responsible for the the blatant corruption and incompetence and authoritarian behavior of tinpot African leaders who have been in power for decades and have no accountability whatsoever. They’ve done that all by themselves.

Your commenting here shows a profound lack of understanding of what is happening in these countries today, you are busy waging the debate wars of 1965 as if these places are still colonies and protectorates instead of 2025 where they’ve been independent nations for over half a century.

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u/DrKpuffy 22h ago

"Everytime China visits they take another small bite of our sovereignty. Every time Europe visits we receive education and assistance to help us do it ourselves"

It's crazy how willing to slurp up propoganda some people are.

10

u/krutacautious 21h ago

China doing debt trap diplomacy is itself a malicious propaganda narrative started during the first Trump administration to counter the BRI. China Debt trap narrative has already been debunked by reputable strategic think tanks such as Chatham House.

Debunking the Myth of ‘Debt-trap Diplomacy’ | 4. Sri Lanka and the BRI https://www.chathamhouse.org/2020/08/debunking-myth-debt-trap-diplomacy/4-sri-lanka-and-bri

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u/WillingLake623 22h ago

Ahahaha Europe helps African nations reach sovereignty? The same Europe that’s spent the last 100 years staging coup after coup to install dictators who help Europe loot their natural resources?

The irony of this statement followed by your little quip about propaganda lmao

4

u/ItemFast 21h ago

Yet Chinese is you largest consumer but you assume it’s the west. Installing

-10

u/DrKpuffy 21h ago

It is genuinely cute that people like you will do anything to demonize white people but do absolutely nothing, no worse, you'll bend over backwards to defend non-white people doing the same damn things.

Is the issue forcing a nation to be dependent on another?

No, the issue is that Europeans existed 100 years ago.

Fucking racist loser.

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u/A_D_Monisher 21h ago edited 5h ago

Sure, but it’s extremely foolish to think China is doing everything, bridges and all, out of goodness of their hearts. China simply plays the identical game differently and slowly.

Eventually, the noose and leash will tighten and China will turn Africa into its economically dependent colony, where Chinese interests are more important than local ones.

2019 Hong Kong shows perfectly how China deals with clashing interests in its own sphere of influence. It eventually crushes them hard.

If China could afford to wait over 20 years with Hong Kong before smothering it, it can afford to wait 50 years with Africa before smothering it.

It’s super ironic that so many Africans can’t see that the Chinese cure is the same as European disease, just slower acting lol.

Well, you can’t cure stupid, I guess.

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u/sorry-not-tory 20h ago

What irony? Instead of Bringing up events from a hundred years ago, why don’t you talk about the half a trillion dollars worth of donations Africa has received from west since 2000?

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u/waterbelowsoluphigh 22h ago

China has forgiven most of its loans... ergo avoiding predatory debt trap IMF style lending.

21

u/mukavastinumb 22h ago

Do you have a source for this?

I found this and it contradicts what you said:

China has announced another round of write-offs on interest-free loans to more than two dozen African countries, but observers say the relief addresses only a small fraction of the overall debt burden on those countries.

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u/waterbelowsoluphigh 21h ago edited 21h ago

I'll pull some sources in a little bit, however, do you have a link to that article that isn't hidden behind a paywall, I am interested in reading it.

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/08/20/china-forgives-debt-africa/ this is a good write up. Going back to 2009. From the article, "China is forgiving 23 interest-free loans for 17 African countries, after already cancelling $3.4 billion and restructuring $15 billion of debt from 2000-2019. Beijing pledged more infrastructure projects and offered favorable trade deals in a “win-win” model of “mutually beneficial cooperation.”

Further on in the article, "Similarly, mainstream academics at Johns Hopkins University and Harvard Business School acknowledged in Washington’s establishment magazine The Atlantic that “the Chinese ‘debt trap’ is a myth.”

Scholar Deborah Brautigam wrote that the US government-sponsored narrative is “a lie, and a powerful one.”

“Our research shows that Chinese banks are willing to restructure the terms of existing loans and have never actually seized an asset from any country,” she added.

Brautigam found that, between 2000 and 2019, China cancelled more than $3.4 billion and restructured or refinanced around $15 billion of debt in Africa, renegotiating at least 26 individual loans.

This past debt forgiveness is in addition to the 23 interest-free loans for 17 African countries that Beijing has announced it will pardon."

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u/mukavastinumb 21h ago edited 20h ago

I found this:

A new update to the Chinese Loans to Africa (CLA) Database, managed by the Boston University Global Development Policy Center, estimates that from 2000-2023, Chinese lenders provided 1,306 loans amounting to $182.28 billion to 49 African governments and seven regional borrowers.

Cancelling 15 Billion is great, but China seems to have given 182 Billion based on the above source.

Edit. To clarify, China hasn’t forgiven all loans. Only Interest-free loans which are a small part of all loans they have issued to Africa.

2

u/M0therN4ture 21h ago

This is completely made up. Sri Lanka went bankrupt because of Chinese debt trap. Forcing to a 99 year lease of the most important port.

2022:

Sri Lanka's China 'debt trap' fears grow as Beijing keeps investing

2024:

Game of Loans: How China Bought Hambantota

"Unable to repay its debt, Sri Lanka gave China a controlling equity stake and a 99-year lease"

You've got to wonder why no one except China wants to give unplayable loans to countries such as Sri lanka when they know they won't be able to repay the debt with interest. That is why "the west" isn't lending them money because they know these countries would not pay it back. China on the other hand forces the indebted countries to hand over ownership of the project they built as repayment, whether these countries like it or not.

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u/SaltyArchea 22h ago

Because with most of their loans it is Chinese workers that work in the foreign countries and big part of the money is going back to China, while they hold it over their head.

9

u/TripleDet 22h ago

Taking advantage of leaders who don’t care about their people or don’t understand the predatory nature of the debt traps. We’re in an age where most control isn’t implemented by a gun pointed at heads.

0

u/Matshelge 22h ago

That is some late game colonization you are pitching. The majority of how it worked was empowering a minority in the region and set them to rule over a majority. This causes the minority to be dependent on the colonizers and to always be on the edge of control over their territories and such not able to resist any demands the European power asked for.

Is this immoral? Oh yeah, but giving loans to build infrastructure, that you required your citizen (not the local) to build, and also all the building materials are from China and when they can't replay the loan, they take the infrastructure built as payment.

This is just as immoral.

-5

u/pineappleFanta87 22h ago

China has forgiven most its loans to developing countries in Africa, what are you talking about?

11

u/tartare4562 22h ago

I refuse to believe anyone can genuinely be this naive.

-10

u/pineappleFanta87 22h ago

Its baffling someone can say that while deepthroating the U.S. state department. Reality is a bit more nuanced, its about time you woke the fuck up

11

u/mediandude 22h ago

So has the West, much earlier than China.

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u/leafeternal 22h ago

At least the Chinese are rebuilding Africa.

14

u/justforthisjoke 22h ago

Yeah are people forgetting the forced administration of contraceptive shots on Rhodesians or the time the government of Israel lied to Ethiopian immigrants about being given a vaccine when they were being effectively sterilized instead?

2

u/HBC_Hair 18h ago

A 2016 study in the International Journal of Ethiopian Studies, for example, argues that “the rapid decline in fertility rates among Ethiopian Israeli women following their migration to Israel was not the result of the administration of [Depo-Provera], but rather the product of urbanization, improved educational opportunities, a later age of marriage and commencement of childbirth and an earlier age of cessation of childbearing.” 

The claim that Israel was deliberately trying to reduce its Ethiopian population also conflicts with the fact, noted above, that the humanitarian organizations in question—and the Israeli government itself—worked actively for decades to bring large numbers of Ethiopian Jews to Israel. [See link for detail]

https://thedispatch.com/article/assessing-claims-that-ethiopian-immigrants-to-israel-received-birth-control-shots-without-consent/

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26554851

1

u/justforthisjoke 12h ago

Clever bait and switch. Notice how you aren't addressing the claim that Ethiopian women were given DepoProvera without their informed consent, but just talking about the fact that it wasn't the primary cause for the drop in birthrate. It's funny, the subheader on the article says "investigations were inconclusive", but you really have to keep reading to find that the investigation was inconclusive because the Comptroller in charge of the investigation didn't actually speak to the complainants, and that 2 of the organizations being investigated didn't cooperate with the investigation.

1

u/HBC_Hair 12h ago

Take it up with the International Journal of Ethiopian Studies.

-1

u/justforthisjoke 11h ago

No because the journal paper isn't refuting the reality of the situation i.e: that ethiopian immigrants were given DepoProvera without their informed consent. What caused an overarching drop in birth rate is irrelevant. That's why it's a bait and switch. The Israeli government gave ethiopian immigrants a contraceptive without telling them what it was. This can be true even if the administration of that contraceptive wasn't what caused the larger trend of decreasing birth rates. But you know this. You're just trying to make excuses for Israel, which like, why?

17

u/Famous-Nail-6987 22h ago edited 22h ago

Continues to? That’s Russia and China doing it now, which blows a hole in your retarded narrative…

2

u/SkwiddyCs 13h ago

Burkina Faso’s leader was assassinated by the French military lol

2

u/GIK602 22h ago

This is exactly it. Forget what this article says. The media makes it sound like this is a free gift from Bill Gates to them with no cost. Burkina Faso is doing the right thing by cracking down on foreign-backed NGOs. They are working towards economic independence, and Western corporations don't like it.

1

u/Whatsapokemon 21h ago

"The west" is not monolithic.

Heck, "the west" from the 1600s is not the same as "the west" from the 1800s, and that itself is so much different from "the west" of the 2000s.

You're acting like African nations can't have foreign ministers which actually understand history with nuance. They're not morons, they're able to comprehend that the world has changed a lot in the past centuries.

2

u/HeartyBeast 22h ago

Because it’s useful to look at projects in their individual merits and hard to see how releasing GM mosquitoes furthers an exploitative agenda?

0

u/Remote_Cantaloupe 20h ago

Because that's no different from what Africans have been doing for millennia? But in all seriousness, they aren't xenophobes are they?

-12

u/Berserker92 22h ago

Delulu... It's corrupt Africans who keep killing each other. How much aid has been sent by the West? Yet no improvement at all.

As long as these corrupt governments and violent militant groups keep fucking shit up, it'll never get better.

Don't blame the West for this crap. Although it's easy to blame others. The West is not the problem there and hasn't been for a very long time.

4

u/Kaboodles 22h ago

Who do you think they learned the corruption from? How many times do you think they were betrayed and misled, until someone with questionable morals used it against "his own people".

It seems so exhausting to be racist. I must know how you people keep this up on a daily basis. You could literally end world suffering/hunger putting that energy elsewhere.

-5

u/Jealous_Response_492 22h ago

That's more China's role today.

0

u/snorlz 16h ago

cause african leaders would never rape and pillage

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u/Popular_Brief335 22h ago edited 22h ago

Oh so what humans have done forever even African nations to African nations some of the worst offenders 

It’s always rich vs the poor nationalism is fucking stupid 

-2

u/sara123db 21h ago

Then you're happy Trump stopped foreign aid (and people are dying already because of it). Wouldn't want malaria to be eradicated if it's the whites doing it