r/technology • u/ErinDotEngineer • 9h ago
Society US taxpayers are funding China’s innovation — we must stop
https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/5467052-innovate-act-reforms-needed/81
u/Steamdecker 8h ago
And who shipped the manufacturing capabilities out of the US? Definitely not the Chinese.
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u/beatlejuice20 1h ago
Author is clear that the problem isn’t about China, though they benefit. It’s about how our government performs due diligence and rewards entities while leaving out new American businesses.
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u/ShadowTacoTuesday 9h ago
It mentions clawback provisions to government subsidies to prevent companies from later selling all the tech and production to China. Meanwhile Trump wants to light on fire all of the CHIPs act clawback provisions and profit sharing and give the U.S. government nonvoting shares instead, so the companies can do whatever they want with the money.
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u/13Krytical 6h ago
Could tell by the headline, blatant agenda pushing…
Her work has been recognized in: DailyCaller, BBC, FOX News, OAN, Newsmax, and SkyNews.
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u/beatlejuice20 1h ago
If by “blatant agenda pushing” you’re referring to America’s, then yep, it is. This article is blatantly pro American innovation.
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u/Anxious-Depth-7983 48m ago
Yeah, Mr. Art of the Deals the biggest patsy we've ever seen. Maybe Witkoff can teach him how diplomacy works.
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u/Smart_Spinach_1538 8h ago
Here’s the author’s website: https://www.execstrategies.net/the-team
Appears to be another grifter and his wife?
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u/13Krytical 6h ago
Could tell by the headline, blatant agenda pushing…
Her work has been recognized in: DailyCaller, BBC, FOX News, OAN, Newsmax, and SkyNews.
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u/theassassintherapist 4h ago
Look at the amount of double dashes in the article. It's written by Chatgpt.
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u/NanditoPapa 8h ago
Actual inventors are stuck in paperwork purgatory, similar to how university research spends more time submitting grant proposals and white papers to journals than actually doing science. Yes, foreign entities are exploiting inefficiencies in the SBIR. We can spend endless time ranting about "China BAD!" or...you know...fixing the systemic problems in the program that are blazingly clear.
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u/hrminer92 1h ago
They could also fund the agencies properly so they can do their jobs with respect to making sure these companies are following the rules. I won’t hold my breath though and the “trust me bro” form of regulation is so much cheaper.
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u/Anxious-Depth-7983 45m ago
They've already gutted the agencies and eliminated the people who understand what needs to change. But I'm sure the DOG E bros remember who they were.
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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 9h ago
Anything to distract from the perpetual graft and the Epstein files they're hiding.
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u/DontMindMeTrolling 8h ago
What a weird article. It outlines the issue presented and then multiple times offers the counter argument is the million/billion dollar ventures for defense and adjacent industries should go to: Meanwhile, the actual American innovators — the four-person garage band of knuckle-bangers with genuine breakthroughs.
Who tf are they talking about there? Another line was 1-2 am garage engineers like what? Ain’t nobody making tech like that solo out of a garage lmao what is this Tony Stark and cave outline?
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u/Fragrant-Peace515 4h ago
Boomers. Soon those garage engineers will pull themselves up by the bootstraps and become legends. /s
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u/Ironxgal 8h ago
None of this shit is shocking, Meanwhile we are encouraging people to abandon education, engaging in anti-intellectualism, firing tech employees in favor of shipping jobs overseas, depleting biotech workforces and cancelling govt grants for said research, and engaging in protectionism for our companies so they can avoid innovating by having a chokehold on markets in the US. China will go in and help build up foriegn/developing/brown countries in exchange for loyalty, we usually go destabilise these countries or attempt to gain control Of their resources without giving them anything in return. Our policies don’t help this situation. China govt sucks ass but if they continue and succeed at pulling this off,,, the balance of world power will look shockingly different. Our govt is controlled by old ass people who won’t be around in ten years so why should they try to fix anything? It’s like they enjoy dumbing the population down.
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u/rhedfish 8h ago
Consumers the world over are funding China's innovation. We are shutting down wind farms and slowing EV development.
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u/Zh25_5680 7h ago edited 7h ago
Or, you know, we could invest in basic science research, fully fund NASA, CDC, FDA, EPA, DOE, and a host of other agencies in their science and engineering work and then continue collaborations between the private and public research groups to generate real world products and technologies that out compete China with an open exchange of ideas
Pretty much like we did from the 50’s to the early 2000’s
You know.. before researchers partnered with Chinese colleagues for support and funding ……
Nah… I’m sure complaining about the other team and trying to get even with them rather than actually compete will work
History is full of examples where crying about competition enabled you to come out ahead
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u/mvw2 7h ago
There's a simple fix to all this that Republicans adamantly despise: oversight.
As with most funding systems passed by Congress, few have built in oversight designed to vet and control distribution.
A great example of this is the CARES act. Remember that mess? This was funding to help small businesses during Covid. Democrats wanted to add oversight to the bill to specifically control and vet who the money goes to. They wanted to pass the bill, happily pass the bill, just as long as oversight was added to make sure the money wasn't miss spent.
What happened?
Republicans laughed in their face, said no, and passed the bill with zero oversight control directly down party lines. The bill passed with no oversight.
What's more fun is many big companies, along with lawyers and lobbyists, already pre-drafted applications for the money before the bill was even passed. Hundreds of big corporations were already lined up to take all the money the instant the bill was passed. And...this is exactly what happened. Companies that had millions or even billions in revenue were given access to the funds right away. When small businesses applied nearly right away, the money was already gone. Many small businesses applied immediately and were turned away being told there was no money to give.
So when anyone truly wants to know what the core distinction between Republicans and Democrats are, this is one great example of the difference of who they're looking out for. Democrats merely wanted to add oversight to the bill to know that the money was smartly distributed to small businesses during hard times. Republicans already worked with companies in the background to pre-allocate nearly all the funding day one to big, very profitable companies who did not need the money at all.
THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE when you vote Republican or Democrat, the difference being who they're really there for.
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u/Weird_Rooster_4307 9h ago
lol that’s because you are buying those innovative things that the US doesn’t know how to make yet
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u/houstonman6 9h ago
Why not work together for the betterment of both nations?
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u/MR_Se7en 9h ago
What’s the next thing you’re gonna suggest, work together to better the common good?
/s
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u/jmanclovis 8h ago
Ya then we could cure world hunger
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u/autodialerbroken116 8h ago
The cure is people go hungry, and some people build megayachts and go to nightclubs on Tuesdays.
This is all fair in Jesus's eyes.
My 2¢? Start a religion or an MLM or a memecoin.
As coffezilla once said, "crime is legal"
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u/NorthDakota 7h ago
Confused about the Jesus bit. Didn't he say sell everything you own and follow him because he thought this life was going to end soon?
Or do you mean like God allows this to happen sort of thing
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u/autodialerbroken116 4h ago
The latter, the whole "blaming ourselves usually leads to no accountability so might as well blame God" thing
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u/EinDoge 8h ago
because american foreign policy runs on the fantasy that USA will always be number 1 and socialism bad and is not interested in betterment of QOL for its people or the world.
America would sooner be #1 in a pile of ashes than a collaborator in a sustainable world where america is no longer the global hegemony.
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u/fitzroy95 8h ago
America is perfectly willing to turn the world into a pile of ashes if there is any hint that they lose their #1 ranking (as they are currently doing as China passes it in many areas)
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u/eskjcSFW 6h ago
Definitely feels like we are going to nuke China before we let them get ahead of us.
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u/fitzroy95 1h ago
They are already there in most areas, other than militarily.
They are doing better (and investing more) in manufacturing, education, R&D, numbers of students graduated in sciences & engineering (of international quality now, which they certainly weren't even a decade ago), more patents granted (and these are actually useful ones, rather than the paper mills they used to be), purchasing parity, alternative energy sources, and much more actively working towards climate change targets.
Over the last 30 years they bought over 700 million people from abject poverty into some sort of (lower) middle class, and provide significantly more social services than the USA.
Their military certainly doesn't have the same levels of training and long term experience as the USA at invasions, attacking other nations, staging coups, undermining Govts etc.
On the flip side, they are certainly hugely authoratarian and aren't big fans of personal freedoms, and have an average level of support for human rights, but the Trump experiences show that the USA is also a long way down that path as well.
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u/Palimon 7h ago
America would sooner be #1 in a pile of ashes than a collaborator in a sustainable world where america is no longer the global hegemony
That is literally what some generals during the cold war were saying. "If there's 2 Americans left alive and 1 Russian we won", and i'm sure they had similar lunatics on the Soviet side.
It's a miracle we're still alive.
IIRC it was in this podcast from Dan Carlin:
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u/yeetis12 6h ago
You must be new to geopolitics if you think any country would just easily put themselves at a global disadvantage just to be a "collaborator in a sustainable world". A country will always prioritize their own interests first and any notion that they are only doing something for the good of the world is incredibly naive.
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u/EinDoge 6h ago edited 6h ago
yes real politik unfortunately is the waters we all swim in. However, USA and China collaborating wouldn’t just be for the good of the world, it’d be beneficial to both countries and their peoples… To frame collaboration as a global disadvantage is extremely short sighted
I agree It’s unrealistic because the people in power are afraid of change and don’t prioritize long term quality of life for their people but change is inevitable and they’re betting that they will come out on top. They being the people in power, not necessarily the people they represent.
Having worked in government for many years, specifically in us-sino relations, i guarantee i’m not new to this, just disappointed
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u/3uphoric-Departure 3h ago
Yes, but considering any place where the US is not the overwhelmingly dominant power puts it at a “global disadvantage”, how truly sustainable is this mindset.
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u/yeetis12 6h ago
Because we don’t live an a ideal world where global superpowers don’t have ulterior motives and are collaborating in good faith.
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u/thelastsupper316 8h ago
Terrible idea will never happen we shouldn't work together, we are incompatible.
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u/Hakuryuu2K 5h ago
Apple alone moving over to China, manufacturing and training the workers there, progressed their tech industry and infrastructure by leaps and bounds. We helped China become what it is today all in the name of capitalism and cheap goods.
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u/Opening-Dependent512 5h ago
What world is this lady in the US just fired their top researchers and a decent percentage of them got hired in China. China has won the innovation game.
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u/Itchy_Swordfish7867 4h ago
Well this isn’t about the Epstein files.
Also, pro capitalist politicians haven’t cared about funding China for the last 50 years. As a matter of fact, they encouraged it.
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u/bjran8888 4h ago
As a Chinese person, I find this a bit funny—China's electric vehicle subsidies do not exclude foreign companies, so Tesla has received a lot of subsidies. This means that Chinese taxpayers are also funding American innovation. Should this be stopped?
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u/doublegg83 8h ago
American businessmen are funding China's innovation.
Chinese products used to sell for cheap.
Now they sell at par to keep stock prices up
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u/Key_Pace_2496 7h ago
Yeah but it's making the ruling elite (CEOs and politicians) rich so why would they give a fuck?
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u/Dopehauler 5h ago
And it's too late, baby now, it's too late,
Though we really did try to make it.
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u/Xpmonkey 4h ago
I’m sure the 92% of all US corporation profit being used for stock buy backs/dividens, isn’t a Ponzi scheme or something like that.
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u/AdministrationBig839 4h ago
Wall Street is the enabler, willing to sell their own American grandmother for a buck.
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u/Distinct_Sun 9h ago
china bad and scary
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u/Jandishhulk 9h ago edited 8h ago
Eh, the piece makes some good points if it's accurate. The majority of the program's funding is being vacuumed up by foreign linked entities or by 'mills' that produce nothing but paper reports.
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u/Senior-Albatross 8h ago
They said 6/25 had links to China.
This sort of shit absolutely gets vacuumed up by shell companies backed by larger entities. But it's mostly just people from the MIC forming a "startup" that's actually a spun off subsidiary of Lockheed.
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u/WrongdoerIll5187 8h ago
Yeah it's actually kind of hilarious how inept they are. Gotta hand it to the Chinese, that's brilliant.
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u/kosmos1209 9h ago
They are our rivals, like it or not. We don’t have to invest in things that make them better when the investments should go to things making us better.
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u/RickSt3r 9h ago
I'm sure it's just US research tech that didn't have a commercial purpose till it did. We innovated solar panels and battery tech. Then left it on a shelf because US companies don't see a need to invest in actual products because those take longer than a quarter to see results. All the while the US federal government doesnt have a national industrial strategy to take on those risk.
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u/blueechoes 8h ago
Threatening to outcompete yourself isn't scary, but it's not great strategy either.
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u/BackgroundSpell6623 9h ago
Has anyone noticed how non white they are? We can't let them have a bigger economy. except if we measure by per capital purchasing power, or electricity generation. we have to keep measuring them in terms of the US dollar, because that's what really matters to the average China resident!
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u/lab-gone-wrong 8h ago
Isn't TheHill Opinions responsible for that abortion of an article about how Kamala is lying and Trump would never sicc the army on US people?
Boot licking low IQ fascists should be banned as a fake news source
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u/Ok-Range-3306 7h ago
if china was not a peer adversary, we wouldnt have half the budget that the DoD gets.
as someone in the defense industry, i actually root for china to keep up with the USA - it keeps us all employed...
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u/liberaeli420 6h ago
All of the debt that China holds is accruing interest payments every year. Tens of billions of dollars funneled out of the tax base to go towards their domestic investment. At least they have sweet roads and trains, better than us wasting that money on more military ventures
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u/markth_wi 8h ago
That argument would be a lot more compelling if they did everything humanly possible to attract and retain technical talent from across the planet as opposed to some 1920's style racist policies that sounded a lot cooler to a bunch of garbage-headed peasants than a technologically dependent super-state with all manner of technology and in a pitched economic competition with 3 or 4 other major nation-state competitors.
But Mango Mussolini will absolutely squander every advantage, sell every single person he can down the river for some personal enrichment, never perhaps in the history of mankind has a leader been so treasonous and catastrophically loyal to tyrants from adversarial nations.
And if we're being really honest, it's hats off and congratulations to the Russian Intelligence Services for cultivating their long-shot traitor / Manchurian Candidate for 40+ years, It might not be completely proper to say it won them the cold war, but it's blood-soaked proof that the Cold War's effects are still with us today every moment Mr. Trump remains the executive.
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u/straightdge 1h ago
I like how goal post keeps shifting.
The Chinese are just low priced sweatshops --> they can only copy --> they can't innovate --> they are stealing our innovation --> they can innovate, but we are actually funding it
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u/PPPHHHOOOUUUNNN 1h ago
Well we can't fund our own innovation here so might as well do it successfully elsewhere 😁
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u/beatlejuice20 1h ago
Looks like either no one read this article or this article flew over reddit’s head. Good thing reddit is self contained and no one of importance cares about reddit comments.
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u/truePHYSX 1h ago
We first purchased the resources, then every manufacturer decided it was suddenly economically efficient to just outsource designs, IPs, and manufacturing infrastructure to a burgeoning market. Now it isn’t so economical, is it. With millions of would-be American jobs, we’re suddenly starting over basically from scratch with a rug pull.
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u/Anxious-Depth-7983 53m ago
So is Joni going to rat out her donors now that she's finally agreeing with Elisabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders? Don't agree to give her and the GOP any kind of win like this before the midterms unless they restore the Build Back Better clean energy provisions and honor the almost finished projects. This includes the interstate charging structure that's needed to make cross-country trips in EVs possible and especially the offshore wind farm that is 3/4s of the way complete. Stopping it at this point is simply wasteful and has put thousands of people out of work. They want their regulations all of a sudden, how surprising. Well, no, not until you give back EVERYTHING you voted to snatch back after agreements being signed through months of negotiations. Hey, Joni, we all have bills die for goodness sake. Enjoy your primaries, pig castrator. Just because your voters have told you what they think of your representation (and they aren't happy are they) doesn't mean that you shouldn't face the music. The democrats might clean up the messes you leave behind after the last republican tried trickle down again, but you can't seriously expect them to do it in time to save your seats or the asses you put in them.
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u/uhohnotafarteither 9h ago edited 8h ago
Is it bad that I'd rather my taxes fund innovation in another country than killing innovation and putting brown people in camps here in my own country?
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u/nullv 8h ago
Love how these corporations get to double dip on shipping everyone's jobs overseas then getting subsidies to protect what little is left stateside. What a racket.