r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/[deleted] • 6d ago
Article "Democrats in damage control crisis as Gaza famine worsens and public turns on party support for Israeli offensive" -- The Independent
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u/Unable-Trouble6192 6d ago
The Democrats are in crisis control? 😂
What about the “finish them”, “bomb everything”, “clear them out”, republicans? They seem to be doing quite well.
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u/Evolone101 5d ago
Yeah. It’s the democrats fault. I keep forgetting how we have all 3 branches of government.
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 6d ago
Turns out the republican base is quite different from the democrats.
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u/InHocWePoke3486 5d ago
Unfortunately, the GOP base of fascists are much easier to appease. When people have a conscience and a moral compass, they're less likely to support genocide. I feel like that's a good thing, but there's far too many people who think Israel gets a free pass
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 5d ago
That's true, but also the GOP does appease their base, compared to the democrats.
RFK Jr, Mass deportations, the wall, overturning roe, etc.
Compare that to the democrats, what have they done to appease their base?
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u/InHocWePoke3486 5d ago
Compare that to the democrats, what have they done to appease their base?
Strongly worded letters evidently and shaming their own voters! We have a surplus of that!
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 5d ago
I'm sure those letters will really make republicans rethink their stance. Definitely. Totally.
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u/-_ij 5d ago
The genocide Is just as fake as Saddam’s WMDs, Hunter’s Laptop and Hillary’s emails. Islamists have been trying to kill off the Jews for the better part of a century now, but they haven’t been able to do it militarily, so this time they are trying a propaganda offensive that banks on Western gullibility and the West is gullible as fuck. All the information coming out of the region is from the Gaza Health Ministry, which I’s controlled by Hamas. In time, the bullshit will be outed. For now, you are knee deep.
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u/Unable-Trouble6192 5d ago
In the US, broad public support for Israel, Democrats included, has historically muted criticism of its policies, even when those policies amount to systemic apartheid. This posture extended into the early phase of the current war, when many Americans uncritically accepted the narrative that “Hamas started it.” That interpretation ignored the deeper historical context of occupation and blockade, but Americans are not generally known for their nuanced understanding of world history.
However, as the genocide has progressed, there is a realization that even us Americans have a limit as to how many kids should be callously and cruelly killed in support of the security of our strongest ally.
This shift in public opinion has translated into only a tepid response from Democratic political leadership. Many Democrat politicians are very aware of how fickle, simple minded, and inattentive the American electorate can be, and that awareness has allowed them to issue weak or symbolic gestures while avoiding substantive policy changes. I think that they are missing an opportunity to permanently change the outsized influence that an apartheid regime has over American politics, and they may still pivot to stronger messaging and policy changes, the longer this goes on, especially if Netanyahu has his wish of ethnic cleansing.
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 5d ago
I agree except for one thing, the American electorate isn't the smartest, but even then they are seeing what the politicians say and do and then look at their phone and see dead kids, so they're fully aware that the politicians are involved.
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u/Only8livesleft 5d ago
Republicans are fine with it. Democratic voters are 92% against Israel’s military strike by the all of the Democratic politicians are supporting it. You value just point to how bad republicans are if you want to win. The Democratics need to do better and it’s up to us to hold them accountable
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u/discwrangler 5d ago
The Republicans aren't pretending to care. The Democrats are and that makes them frauds. The whole reason Trump has succeeded is because he is who we see.
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u/Unable-Trouble6192 5d ago
Trump succeeds because he represents the majority of the racist, bigoted, xenophobic, misogynistic, idiots who care more about political wins and culture wars than America. They will destroy the country to hurt those who don't look like them.
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u/FKSTS 5d ago
Their constituency largely doesn’t care. Democrats, OTOH, have actual standards of decency. It’s why we vote for them!
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u/Unable-Trouble6192 5d ago
In the US, broad public support for Israel, Democrats included, has historically muted criticism of its policies, even when those policies amount to systemic apartheid. This posture extended into the early phase of the current war, when many Americans uncritically accepted the narrative that “Hamas started it.” That interpretation ignored the deeper historical context of occupation and blockade, but Americans are not generally known for their nuanced understanding of world history.
However, as the genocide has progressed, there is a realization that even us Americans have a limit as to how many kids should be callously and cruelly killed in support of the security of our strongest ally.
This shift in public opinion has translated into only a tepid response from Democratic political leadership. Many Democrat politicians are very aware of how fickle, simple minded, and inattentive the American electorate can be, and that awareness has allowed them to issue weak or symbolic gestures while avoiding substantive policy changes. I think that they are missing an opportunity to permanently change the outsized influence that an apartheid regime has over American politics, and they may still pivot to stronger messaging and policy changes, the longer this goes on, especially if Netanyahu has his wish of ethnic cleansing.
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5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 5d ago
Removed - low effort/low content/obvious troll submissions are not permitted.
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u/StarMagus 5d ago
Yeah if anything the public is more in favor or doing more damage faster to them, as judged by supporting Republicans on this.
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u/bluntasaknife 5d ago
The party that isn’t in power is in damage control, ok 👌
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u/Agile-Music-2295 5d ago
How is it damaging the Republicans? As long as no new funding is announced, their voters don’t care.
They are focused on crime, immigrants and DEI in their water.💧
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u/WakkoTheWarner 5d ago
I think he meant it as: “The party that isn’t in power is in damage control? Ok.” Sarcastically
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u/ejpusa 5d ago
Did not stop the Democrats for voting for more money to the MIC, to make more weapons, to kill more kids, the average age in Gaza is 19.
They were 100% on board with that. What is astonishing to Americans, they ask the Democrats WHY are we arming Israel to kill kids, why? They actually flee, refuse to answer the question.
We have the live TikToks, the Instgram videos, we have it all. The USA is funding genocide.
People can't believe we are doing this. And Democrats seem to be cheering it on. Schumer: Gaza, kids, what are people taking about? There is a problem there? Never heard about it.
He basically said that.
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u/Golden_Starman 6d ago
Mr OP do you have any insight on how the party not in power and with elections over a year away; how do the democratics fix Gaza??
All the whiney babies voted for Jill Stein or sat out, and now “Hey Kamala, GAZA is speaking now bitch!” (The person who bragged about the Gaza issue being toxic to Kamala deleted the tweet)
https://x.com/nour_zeidan/status/1854034644913570237
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1121209771623839/posts/2160128894398583/
People focusing on how the Dems can do more CURRENTLY are a net negative for liberal values and need to be ostracized.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
I voted for Kamala but her campaign made the decision not to support an arms embargo knowing it’d cost her votes.
Jill Stein voters are idiots, but let’s not pretend that all of the blame lies with them.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
Sure that’s true.
What do you think Trumps feelings are towards any weapons limitations or embargo?
You know the guy who a settlement named after him?
What do you think is more likely to have harm reduction 🤔🤔🤔
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u/NYCHW82 5d ago
Yeah it amazes me that we are STILL sitting here talking about the Democrats when the current administration isn't even pretending to give a shit about whats going on in Gaza. In fact they are enabling it even more. And yet the Dems still get the blame. What is wrong with people?
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
Bots, purposely nefarious people, and tankies trying to be relevant for once in their life.
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5d ago
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
Damn. All these deported Americans and people kicked off Medicade are an allowable byproduct because the harm reduction candidate didn’t do everything demanded of them.
I’m trying to sort out the winners and losers of that equation…
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u/GarryofRiverton 5d ago
Jill Stein voters are idiots, but let’s not pretend that all of the blame lies with them.
All the blame does in fact lie with them. They'd rather trade the lives of Palestinians so they could feel good about themselves. Cringe fucking losers. 👎
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u/InHocWePoke3486 5d ago
A number of you all have said that the left in this country is so small and inconsequential, yet somehow they're able to swing elections? The paradox is truly breathtaking!
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u/NewDovah 5d ago
Too small to matters when Dems are winning, powerful enough to cost congress and the White House when they're losing. Same as it ever was.
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u/InHocWePoke3486 5d ago
It's truly amazing. One day, I hear that the Democrats should kick us to the curb and don't need our vote to win, and then the next, they say we cost them the trifecta and need to vote more.
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u/GarryofRiverton 5d ago
Because you're too small of a political force to warrant making huge demands coming out of a primary that you overwhelmingly lost, but your votes still count on an electoral level.
The real question is why are you trying to find every reason not to vote for Dems? You were given concessions coming out of the 2020 primary and yet you still stamped your feet and whined.
The other question is why should Dems keep trying to pander to you? Your policies aren't popular with the majority of Americans, and some "progressive" policies are downright political suicide, while you keep demanding more and more from Democrats. Why keep isolating from regular Americans ourselves with your shit policies while you keep fence-sitting? You're useless.
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u/NewDovah 5d ago
How has pandering to the right gone? The Dems surely blew out the last elections doing that, right? Ignoring the left is going swimmingly with no problems?
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u/GarryofRiverton 5d ago
You do realize that the vast majority of voters viewed Harris and Biden as super far left right? Thus their negative perception of them.
Crawl out of your parents' basement and go talk to a normal person for once and maybe you'll understand that the world isn't Reddit.
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u/NewDovah 5d ago
I like how you can't counter the fact that tacking right lost the election so you immediately pivot to personal insults.
Most polling shows that people, even Republicans, don't have a problem with "super lefty" policies as long as you frame them correctly, which is a political party's job.
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u/digital_dervish 5d ago
This revisionist history among Libs is maddening. What part of "Not a thing comes to mind that I would do different than Joe Biden, except hire more Republicans," do you not understand? Palestinian lives were on the line no matter who won, the least you could have done was make your vote count toward breaking the duopoly instead of throwing it away while supporting genocide.
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u/GarryofRiverton 5d ago
Lmao, here's one of them now! How did it feel to rip your ballot up and throw it in the trash? Did it at least feel good? Do you think the starving Palestinian kids feel good about it?
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u/TISETDSE 5d ago
Obviously not great, but 80% of the democrats think Israel is conducting a genocide in Gaza. Is it really hard to understand why the voters want the democratic establishment's views to align with them?
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u/GarryofRiverton 5d ago
But to the vast majority of voters foreign policy in general ranks extremely low on the list of their priorities let alone a single conflict.
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u/TISETDSE 4d ago
While I agree with your overall point, in Oct 2024, situation in the ME b/w Israel-Palestine was extremely or very important to 64% of the voters. It was a somewhat important issue to another 29% of the voters. Only 5% did not think it was important.
So this is an issue that was at least somewhat important to 94% of the party base almost a year ago when the situation wasn't as dire, and not an 80:10 split either.
Why are you against the party establishment aligning with the voters on an issue that is important to the overwhelming majority of them?
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u/MsAgentM 5d ago
No, this is wrong. Absolutely all of the blame lies with the Jill Stein voters. If they had voted for Kamala, there would be a party in power right now, that may actually be persuadable on Israel.
If you give any fucks about Gaza, blame Jill Stein voters for this.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
That’s just not accurate. Even if every Jill Stein voter had voted for Kamala, she still would’ve lost.
Jill Stein is a Putin-backed grifter. But that doesn’t mean Kamala didn’t screw up strategically. FFS even Hillary won the popular vote!
Also, what makes you think children in Gaza wouldn’t be getting bombed right now if Kamala was president?
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u/MsAgentM 5d ago
I’m sorry, let me rephrase, some of the blame lies with the Jill Stein voters. The rest goes to the 3rd party and non-voters.
Not that we can run the experiment now, but I find it telling that Netanyahu was forced to let in aid to Gaza under Biden. I never heard Kamala talk about what nice vacation property the West Bank would be, or say that the Palestinians would have to leave their home, like Trump has said multiple times. Oh, and since Trump has become president, US aid to Gaza has basically stopped.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say the fighting between Hamas and Israel would have stopped if Kamala had won, but their prospects would be a shit ton better and the people that supposedly fucking care about them would have a party in power they could actually move. Sitting out on the Dems put the Republicans in charge and that just meant 4 years of a party that gives zero fucks about Gaza and no political pressure to ever give one. What a brilliant political strategy?
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
So do you think Kamala ran a perfect campaign? Do you think politicians are EVER responsible for their electoral loses?
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u/MsAgentM 5d ago
Of course she didn’t. I think she isn’t a fascist that will allow the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the authoritarian takeover of the US. She could have been fucking dead and I would have voted for her over Trump. This is common sense. Do you give a shit about the Palestinians really? Arguing she should go down because her campaign wasn’t perfect when her opponent is a literal fascist that will obviously give Netanyahu free reign to mow over Gaza. What TF is wrong with you people?
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
BRO I LITERALLY VOTED FOR AND DONATED TO KAMALA! I’m not arguing that she’s a fascist-she’s obviously not. I’m not claiming she would’ve been the same as Trump. She obviously would’ve been a MUCH better president. I was extremely upset when she lost.
None of that changes the fact that her Gaza position was terrible (both as a matter of policy and politically).
I’m not okay with my taxes being used to bomb and starve innocent children. Why are you?
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u/MsAgentM 5d ago
I am so sick and fucking tired of arguing with you people about this. Why don't you realize, that it doesn't fucking matter. Republicans don't give a shit. I'm not going to protest a Dem because they have some lingering support for Israel if they are still anti-fascist and will stop this authoritarian take over of our country. I am not going to shit on them on the internet the get them to change their position when the country is fighting for it's damn life. I am not going nit pick about a fucking fight on the other side of the world when the Dems aren't even in power to sway any funding for and they have to fight crazy ass re-districting battles now. All that matters is getting the Dems in Congressional seats. At least a Dem would fucking listen and considering changing their support of Israel if they are in office. There is not a world where a Republican is a better option, why the fuck are we purity testing Dems on this issue. There are way bigger fucking problems.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
Cool. Then don’t whine when left-leaning people don’t vote for Democrats. ☺️
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u/SpiritualBakerDesign 5d ago
That’s BS. You want my vote then prove it. Until we see real actions we stay home.
This is not a negotiation.
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u/MsAgentM 5d ago
It’s your vote, but don’t act like you give a shit about the Palestinians. If you did, you would vote for the option that is the best for them and that you would have the most opportunity to move. Instead, you are allowing a fascist that will allow them to be removed from their land completely to take over while that same fascist makes your own country an authoritarian state.
This is absolutely your fault.
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u/SpiritualBakerDesign 4d ago
No it’s your fault.
Because the Dems know they can give us Biden as a candidate and enough simps will vote anyway because the know we fear the alternative.
But after 2024 the have a chance to learn that if they don’t provide a left candidate, they don’t have a base. But only if we stay firm.
AOC is our first female president in 2028 or it’s Vance.
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u/MsAgentM 4d ago edited 4d ago
Millions of people will vote in a primary to choose a candidate to represent the Democratic Party. If you don’t like the candidate chosen then it’s your choice to stay home, but don’t act like you give a shit about progressing your left wing agenda, or you give a shit about helping Palestinians when you have the option of incrementally better and in your direction, though not everything, or the complete opposite, and you chose the opposite because you are just mad. You kill the good for the perfect constantly and people like you are why we are getting anywhere. It’s such a spoiled brat mentality I can’t even imagine a functioning adult saying it.
You don’t care about working toward your agenda. You act like a child that is mad you didn’t win your little game so you would rather throw up the board than play the next round. If you and the people on the right are what makes up the majority of the country, we are already done.
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u/WakkoTheWarner 5d ago
Tbf, you are free to use your vote however way you want it.
But yall then can’t really complain if facism takes over. By that point, I give up and have no reason to keep on fighting the Trump dynasty. I’m not his immediate target. 🤷♂️
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u/SpiritualBakerDesign 4d ago
Ok 👌. If your not 100% behind AOC then your only helping the right anyway.
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u/WakkoTheWarner 4d ago
I don't care who wins the primary. Anyone is objectively and factually better than what we have right now.
I'm not going to bitch and moan if my prefered candidate doesn't win. I'd gladly vote Gavin Newsome if he wins the primary or AOC if she wins the primary.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
It’s probably dumber to drag the candidate with the most resistance to Israel vs doing a victory lap while 2000lb bombs get redeployed.
We really showed the Democratic Party didn’t we??
And yea, you should excise any segment that would rather throw a temper tantrum than grow up and realize not every candidate will be perfect and screaming Genocide isn’t going to change it.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah this is the dead beat leftist that would rather have perfect politics than ever see change be enacted.
It is a temper tantrum, sorry to break it to you. 😢
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
RemindMe! 365 days
You wanna bet if more anti Israeli democrats get elected in their primaries for 2026?
I’d easily take the bet we stay at the same 4-6 people who are the only anti-Zionist members
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u/RemindMeBot 5d ago
I will be messaging you in 1 year on 2026-08-30 18:14:01 UTC to remind you of this link
CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
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5d ago
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
So you’re saying it’s doubtful?? Typical whiner lefty.
This minor issue will continue to only be a bullhorn for people looking to drag down the party with purity testing.
Glad that you also realize how negligible the broader democratic voter base actually cares about it.
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags 5d ago edited 5d ago
We really showed the Democratic Party didn’t we??
It's more like the Democratic Party still hasn't showed up.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
With this attitude I guess we never have to worry about a Dem ever getting elected again.
It’s so fucking wild to me people act like if they ran Bernie MAGICALLY the 50% of this country that is deep conservative will disappear.
When you get a bit older you’ll realize that winning elections isn’t about being the perfect candidate for your party, it’s about getting buy in from other viewpoints.
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's so fucking wild to me that people are unwilling to put a shred of blame on the Democratic Party for trying to run a geriatric presidential candidate who could barely complete sentences and waited way too long to drop out of the election.
Then it was too late to have a Democratic primary, so Kamala had to run a hindered campaign and was incapable of distancing herself from the far-right Netanyahu government in Israel.
You're right. It's probably just easier to blame voters for the Democrats loss.
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u/KingScoville 5d ago
I love how you never associate yourself with the Democratic Party in your comment.
You’re clearly not a Dem and I’m sure you wouldn’t vote for them regardless so why should they cater to your narrow, unpopular views?
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags 5d ago
I'm an independent.
I haven't been registered in the Democratic party since Obama's second term because the Democratic Party is too much of a corporate shill for my beliefs.
I don't believe that pushing back on the corporate takeover of America is a narrow or unpopular view. It's just not a view that will fill the coffers of the DNC.
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u/fartjarrington 5d ago
The bar is so fucking low. The fact that Dems can't even be a voice of opposition, despite not having the power to do anything, is pathetic. Instead, outside of a handful of progressive voices, they keep their heads down and do their best to ignore the issue or fully support war crimes and a mass death.
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u/crimsonconnect 6d ago
Vote against weapons transfers? End the aid to Israel? Don't get outflanked by Marjorie Green on this issue? Respond to your base? There i solved it for you
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u/-_ij 5d ago
When you start glazing rabid anti-Semitic fascists like Marge Green, it’s time for introspection.
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u/crimsonconnect 5d ago
There's so much popular support in the Democratic party to be against genocide though, it would be so easy and super safe with the base to end the weapons transfers, they could cite the Lahey law and boom midterms are theres
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u/-_ij 5d ago
“Genocide” libel is the WMDs of this conflict.
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u/crimsonconnect 5d ago
83% civilian kill rate and a man made famine...yeah, genocide
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u/KingScoville 5d ago
Wow where did you get those numbers from?
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u/Only8livesleft 5d ago
Being in power wouldn’t change anything because Democrats are openly supporting Israel
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
Oi! Bruv I’m not explaining this to another bot level comment.
There is not some magic plurality of voters that HATE Israel like these leftist and tankies. It’s a popular topic but not something that will actually attract voters.
I don’t think Dems do enough to condition aid and support, but I’m not dying on the I/P hill and sabotaging progress that can be made by electing democrats.
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u/Only8livesleft 5d ago
It will do more to dissuade voters when democrats defend genocide. Especially among young voters who have seen plenty of footage of the genocide.
If 92% of Democratic voters disapprove of Israel’s actions and the Democratic Party won’t listen to them, how can anyone think the Democratic Party is willing to represent their constituents?
If you aren’t willing to stand up against genocide, why should anyone believe you’ll stand up for democracy?
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u/Golden_Starman 4d ago
lol. This concern trolling plus imaginary stats is wild combo.
Also the framing of democrats not defending democracy as MAGA activity dismantling as much as possible is VERY TELLING.
The state of Gaza is a tragedy, but I’m not going to enable more republicans to win as a moral victory over moderate Dems.
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u/Only8livesleft 4d ago
It’s not my fault you’re uninformed. Only 8% of Democratic voters support Israel’s actions in Gaza
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-action-gaza-new-low.aspx
The state of Gaza is a tragedy, but I’m not going to enable more republicans to win as a moral victory over moderate Dems
You don’t get it. You’re defending genocide and it’s enabling republicans to beat democrats
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u/Golden_Starman 4d ago
lol. You act like republicans give a shit about anything other than not giving Israel money.
If every Arab starved, MAGA wouldn’t bat an eye, so saying “defending genocide is enabled republicans” is nonsensical.
No one is more indifferent to foreign affairs than MAGA, but I’m sure you got an excuse for why Dems are still worse when Trump ended USAID.
And yeah 8% approve of the current Israeli administration’s plan, but Dems can’t do anything to stop Bibi. (I’m sure you also have a solution for this too)
People like you that morally grandstand because every democrat isn’t perfect is why republicans find it so easy to win elections.
I fucking hate it and can’t wait till leftist lose a few more primaries to tell me “uniformed voters just don’t get it” when in reality their policies are not popular with even the poor and working class.
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u/Only8livesleft 4d ago
You seem confused. Democrat and Republicans both enable genocide. Being pro Israel’s genocide is losing democrats votes. Democrats can voice that they are against the genocide. Republicans win because Democrats ran a bad campaign and will do it again.
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u/Golden_Starman 4d ago
Only perfect little angels like you can stop it and save us from It.
How lucky we have morally superior beings to point me in the right direction.
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u/Important-Ability-56 6d ago
Turning Netanyahu’s war into Democrats’ failure is the most successful pro-Republican propaganda coup I’ve seen since Hillary Clinton did an email.
There are only two possible conclusions about anti-Israel anti-Democrat people who tried to make the election about that and only that:
Either the messaging failed to do anything, or it succeeded and helped Trump win.
So to those self-righteous preeners whose claim to moral ascendence is being against the worst thing imaginable that everyone is against: take your moral high ground and bury yourself in it.
You don’t care about saving people from rightwing governments. You care about being led around by the nose by the hip internet cause du jour in front of your friends.
You succeeded at nothing. Unless your only agenda was to prevent Kamala Harris from winning the election, your strategy failed. No matter how bad you feel Democrats are on the issue, Democrats do not abide the wanton elimination of brown people like Republicans do.
But you were told all this. You knew all this before.
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u/Writing_is_Bleeding 5d ago
Turning Netanyahu’s war into Democrats’ failure is the most successful pro-Republican propaganda coup I’ve seen since Hillary Clinton did an email.
ONE. HUNDRED. PERCENT.
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u/torontothrowaway824 5d ago
Turning Netanyahu’s war into Democrats’ failure is the most successful pro-Republican propaganda coup I’ve seen since Hillary Clinton did an email.
Greatest propaganda op in recent politics. Completely distracted from the fact a criminal rapist and possibly pedophile was looking to run the country and also helped to get said pedophile elected. Really hats off to everybody involved
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 5d ago
Democrats do not abide the wanton elimination of brown people like Republicans do.
Did you seriously just forget October 2023- January 2025?
When you say shit like this, the average voter can tell you're purely partisan and not invested in the issues, and so they go support those right wingers you want to stop. Good Job
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u/Important-Ability-56 5d ago
If people are voting Republican out of solidarity with downtrodden brown people, nothing I say will help.
You can keep insisting that the parties are exactly the same, and I’ll keep believing that this would be very highly improbable if it weren’t also disproved by the facts on the ground.
I’m not saying Democrats don’t sometimes neglect the suffering and death of brown people, I’m saying it’s not their core political philosophy to cause it.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
Biden was president for the a majority of the “war.”
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u/Important-Ability-56 5d ago
He was also president when there weren’t soldiers on American streets. And he wasn’t even the candidate.
There is no logic that vindicates the Harris = genocide narrative. Not after it succeeded in its goal of electing Trump. We can see for ourselves what his Gaza plan is now.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
I never said there was? lol
Biden was obviously MUCH better than Trump on domestic issues but his Gaza policy was more or less the same as Trump’s (I.e., whatever Bibi wants).
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u/torontothrowaway824 5d ago
Biden was obviously MUCH better than Trump on domestic issues but his Gaza policy was more or less the same as Trump’s (I.e., whatever Bibi wants).
This is objectively bullshit. Did Biden cut aid to Palestinian non profits? He negotiated a ceasefire and Trump has given up any precedent of even faking to try. And also Biden wasn’t running for reelection so people saying that both parties are the same on Gaza didn’t even give Harris the opportunity to change policy.
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u/JackWinkle 4d ago
Yeah, UNWRA come to mind?
Kamala is alive, right? She can raise her voice wrt this issue any time she wants
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/Important-Ability-56 5d ago
Well, again, if the protests achieved anything, it was to elect Trump. If they didn’t do that, then what was the point?
I’m not saying they were wrong in their activism, and I don’t begrudge anyone for making their cause the center of attention, whether it deserves it or not. That’s their prerogative.
The problem is that the ask wasn’t for more attention from politicians to the problem, it was to threaten the world with Donald Trump if you didn’t get your way. It became a word association, genocide = Democrats, which was the propaganda. Whenever anyone points out that Republicans would be obviously worse, you get gibberish in response. Yeah, Democrats are more likely to listen. So that’s why we must put them out of power?
For all I know it was a political and moral blunder of major proportions for Democrats to waffle on Israel, but it’s also not the case that all of their supporters were on board. Frankly it would have been better not to have a foreign policy quagmire be the focus of a political race.
Maybe Israel does have far too much influence over both parties. But that’s a problem that stretches half a century into the past and isn’t going to be solved on one Election Day.
Over and over leftists activists want to claim that they care more about issues, and then they decide that there’s a magic button to fix it one day every four years.
It’s the conflation. Conflation of Democrats with the action of a far-right foreign leader. Conflation of an election with a foreign policy cause. It never made any rational sense, and you can’t very well solve a problem that way.
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u/julianriv 5d ago
This has always been such a BS position. You have two political choices. Even if you don't like a Democrat's position on Gaza, any Republican is going to be much worse. Sometimes you really do have to choose the lesser of two evils.
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u/ute4547 5d ago
It will always amaze me how democrats get the blame for everything while MAGA just slips out the back door.
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u/torontothrowaway824 5d ago
Truly amazing. Republicans face zero accountability even with voters on the left. Lmao must be nice
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u/Gryffindorcommoner 6d ago
Honestly never thought I’d see the day where Americans were both aware and dissatisfied of Israel being a rogue apartheid state funded by their tax dollars. If there’s one silver lining of the entire situation since the genocide started is that the world’s population is finally becoming aware of the Palestinian struggle and they won’t continue to die silently as the world moves on.
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u/Golden_Starman 6d ago
Bro they 100% are moving the fuck on, do you only ever take in US media?
Look at the posturing of the entire Arab League working hand in hand with republican foreign investment. Seems like even their neighbors and Arab brothers have had a change of stance recently.
The pressure is on for Abbas, PLO, and the PA to sort out a solution if they don’t want to learn what a real apartheid feels like.
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u/Gryffindorcommoner 5d ago
Bro they 100% are moving the fuck on, do you only ever take in US media?
Look at the posturing of the entire Arab League working hand in hand with republican foreign investment. Seems like even their neighbors and Arab brothers have had a change of stance recently.
If you’ll notice I said the world and not just Arab states. We’re seeing western empires typically in the US sphere moving forwards recognizing a Palestinian state. International institutions are no longer intimidated by the US and are pursuing legal action. With an actual genocide case in the ICJ and arrest warrants in the ICC. Not to mention support is dropping across the world and states are beginning to cut diplomatic ties. Support for Israel among one of the two parties in the US who pays their bills and fights their battles has completely collapsed and become hostile, allowing for an ever expanding space in American politics and society for criticism and defiance of Israel that previously did not exist.
What you’re talking about is Arab leaders raking in American cash while still playing mediators because of their populations’ sympathy of Palestine. That’s not news at all lol.
The pressure is on for Abbas, PLO, and the PA to sort out a solution if they don’t want to learn what a real apartheid feels like.
The South Africans have linked Palestinian oppression to apartheid since they THEMSELVES lived under apartheid and I promise they know more about it than you do. Palestinians to this day are being murdered in the streets for funsies, subjected to daily terrorist attacks, kicked out of their houses to be bulldozed for illegal occupiers, segregated, beaten, poison, tortured, and raped. They experienced the same policies as Apartheid South African and the Jim Crow South which I know more than average about as a southern black man.
It’s also incredible how you just openly supported the furthering the war crimes of collective punishment and illegal occupation by the occupiers if the Palestinians don’t bend to their will with NO “are we the baddies?” Thought in your head. Just so fascinating to me honestly.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
The South Africans have linked Palestinian oppression to apartheid since they THEMSELVES lived under apartheid and I promise they know more about it than you do. Palestinians to this day are being murdered in the streets for funsies, subjected to daily terrorist attacks, kicked out of their houses to be bulldozed for illegal occupiers, segregated, beaten, poison, tortured, and raped. They experienced the same policies as Apartheid South African and the Jim Crow South which I know more than average about as a southern black man.
This is irrelevant since Israel doesn’t oversee laws or administrative functions of Gaza or WB. I know it’s fun to shoehorn every bad word into this conflict but saying it’s Jim Crow is a slap in the face of every civil rights activist.
Also MLK supported Israel, but I’m sure you also knew that.
You willing to take a bet on if the Arab league has involvement with the resettlement and reconstruction of Gaza.
Aid, land development and security services will be provided or assistance for these projects but with the conditions Israel asked for?
I have a feeling you wrote a lot but wouldn’t stake anything that Arab neighbors are ACTUALLY tired of Gaza and Iran, and would like to see prosperity over endless conflict.
It’s funny that Israel has to be the baddies because Gaza is poor and destitute from its own self government. lol. 😂
Weird how the 2 million Arabs inside of Israel don’t seem to mind? But they are all Uncle Tom’s for the Jewish people huh?
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
“Israel are the baddies” because they’re bombing and starving children.
Hope this helps! ☺️
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u/amalgovinus 5d ago
"This is irrelevant since Israel doesn’t oversee laws or administrative functions of Gaza or WB."
By using weasel words to elide the fact of Gaza's population being systematically exterminated, you claim to expect a population to "oversee laws" when all of their health and governmental facilities have been destroyed.
Israel is "administratively" arresting random people in the West Bank in retaliation against Gaza. They're adbucting children at night to terrorize families and holding alone in military prison, in conditions comparable to Abu Gharib. Thousands held and tortured without charge are not even considered.
Your take is depraved. You're a sick person, what you defend is sick. You've allied yourself with the concentration camp guards.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
I hope god is watching to give your comment double plus good morality points.
Fact of the matter is when Gaza held elections, when Hamas won they killed members of the opposition party. Why would such a forward thinking democracy do that???
Personally I believe every settlement in the WB should be torn down and negotiated peace with mutually agreed boarders.
I do love the extreme grandstanding you load into your smug self righteous attacks. It gives me a good chuckle 🤭
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u/Gryffindorcommoner 5d ago
This is irrelevant since Israel doesn’t oversee laws or administrative functions of Gaza or WB.
Can we just stop with this lie already? Yes Israel very clearly controls the airspace. , coastlines, resources, telecommunications, and borders in both territories and are their legal occupiers which is why it’s called the OCCUPIED Palestinian Territories . The UNSC, UNGA, ICJ, ICC, EU, AU, US, and world humanitarian community have all agreed on this so not sure what you’re lying for.
I know it’s fun to shoehorn every bad word into this conflict but saying it’s Jim Crow is a slap in the face of every civil rights activist.
I swear if one more non black person tries to tell black peoole about black history without knowing shit about what they’re talking about. Malcom X, The Panthers, Mandela, and his allies were all on the side of Palestine. Save it.
Also MLK supported Israel, but I’m sure you also knew that.
Good thing he’s just one leader and not the whole civil rights movement as whitewashed textbooks tell us
You willing to take a bet on if the Arab league has involvement with the resettlement and reconstruction of Gaza.
Aid, land development and security services will be provided or assistance for these projects but with the conditions Israel asked for?
I don’t see why the UN wouldn’t be leading the charge with a joint operation that the Arab states are part of, similar to now.
It’s funny that Israel has to be the baddies because Gaza is poor and destitute from its own self government. lol. 😂
Israel……. Trapped them in an open air concentration camp?
Weird how the 2 million Arabs inside of Israel don’t seem to mind? But they are all Uncle Tom’s for the Jewish people huh?
Well they’re getting beatened and terrorized in Israel if they dere speak up against the State but I’m sure that does seem like good news in your eyes.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
lol. Saying MLK was just some guy is crazy.
Who killed the other famous leader of the civil rights?
It wouldn’t have been his own friends the Nation of Islam right?
You just wrote a bunch of snotty words about how I can’t be right because of my skin tone so I’ll ignore the rest of your colorist nonsense.
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u/Gryffindorcommoner 5d ago
I suppose reading comprehension is as low as the quality of your excuses for war crimes cause I said none of that. You didn’t know many civil rights leaders were pro Palestine and now you’re playing victim
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u/911roofer 5d ago
The ANC supported Mugabe who ruined his own country and allowed AIDS to ravage the country while claiming lemon and beetroot would it. Pretending that gang of idiots has anything to morally contribute to the world is a farce.
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u/Gryffindorcommoner 5d ago
Wait so does this mean any word out of any Americans mouth is worthless. Cause of Jim Crow, slavery, Native American genocide or the war on terror ? And also,are you claiming south Africans don’t know what apartheid is because of.. politics?
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
There’s mass pro-Palestine protests across the world bro.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
What about the mass protests by the Gaza population against Hamas, whom get shot and killed for doing so??
I don’t give a fuck what US children protesting at colleges have to say, compared to the people who are living in neighboring countries with friend and family actively caught in the middle.
If the Arab league is done with Hamas and the Gaza situation, what do you think that means?
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/31/world/middleeast/hamas-arab-states-palestinians.html
Where is this on every fucking news station?
https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/01/middleeast/uday-rabie-palestinian-tortured-hamas-intl-latam
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 5d ago
You realize there can be mass pro-Palestine protests globally (not just the US but in South Korea, Italy, Mexico, etc.) AND there can be protests against Hamas in Gaza right? They aren’t mutually exclusive.
Also, supporting Palestinian liberation is not the same as supporting Hamas. There’s like 5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. Only like 30k-40k are members of Hamas. 🤦🏻♀️
As for the Arab league the answer is simple - greed.
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u/hobovalentine 5d ago
Bro even the Arab states don’t care about Palestinians.
Egypt and Jordan refuse to take in any additional refugees and refuse to grant citizenship to Palestinian refugees.
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u/Gryffindorcommoner 5d ago
Weird. It’s almost as if Palestinians wants to stay, and belong in, Palestine or something.
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u/hobovalentine 5d ago
Nice deflection.
Why do you think the Arab states don’t give a damn about Palestine?
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u/Gryffindorcommoner 5d ago
Because of the United States Dollar? You didn’t know that?
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u/hobovalentine 5d ago
Because of the dollar how?
America doesn’t give a shit if these countries will give Palestinian refugees Jordanian or Egyptian citizenship and full voting rights.
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u/CypherTripOnSunset 5d ago
I think perhaps, just maybe, Palestinians belong in Palestine. Thoughts?
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u/hobovalentine 5d ago
You're skirting the question
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u/CypherTripOnSunset 5d ago
Egypt and Jordan have explicitly said that's the reason they wont accept refugees. because it would aid in ethnic cleansing. Now answer my question. Thoughts on Palestinians belonging in Palestine?
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u/-_ij 5d ago
Im a pro Jewish progressive. I’m glad Democrats aren’t falling for Islamist astroturfing campaigns. Go Dems. Go Israel.
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u/Only8livesleft 5d ago
You are not progressive if you are pro apartheid and pro genocide
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 4d ago
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u/SpiritualBakerDesign 5d ago
This is why I don’t vote. Half the comments here make we want to campaign for my local Dem, half the comments make me remember why I stay home.🏠
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 4d ago
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 4d ago
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u/dosumthinboutthebots 5d ago
Blame the dems give the Republicans a pass. This is how the election was lost
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u/Agile-Music-2295 5d ago
See the difference is people who vote republicans don’t care enough to blame their leaders.
While those voting Dems do. For many the only reason to vote for Dems is to stop the status quo.
It’s win/win for Trump.
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u/Minute-Complex-2055 4d ago
This. All these idiots who didn’t vote, which caused all of this shit, and they don’t take accountability. It’s sad.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 6d ago
If the democrats can't stand up for children being starved to death, then they sure as fuck won't stand up for me! They won't look after my best interest in a difficult situation. Everyone understands this.
Among democrats, support for ending aid to Israel was 75%+ under Biden. Here's a gallup poll from 03/2024
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
But he kept sending bombs while saying insane shit like Israel is the only reason a USA Jew like me is safe!
And his administration lied to congress about Israel blocking aid.
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u/AriChow 5d ago
Democrats and republicans act as a uniparty on this issue, they both have supported this extermination and displacement of Palestinians. They both conflate the antisemitic notion that support for an ethno state is support for Jewish people. The difference is that we expect republicans to be demons and expect democrats to be better.
Watch as time goes on and everyone swears they either weren’t aware of the extent of the damage or swear that they were always against the slaughter of innocents.
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 6d ago
Turns out when you abandon 3/4 of your base and a majority of independents you lose. Who could've guessed.
All those who try and claim that caring so much about genocide is effectively being pro-Trump, I now flip it back on you: Why are all these pro-Israel people who supposedly care about democracy supporting a genocidal apartheid state, even at the cost of their popularity and viability in defeating a fascist.
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u/Golden_Starman 6d ago
Lmao. Where did you make up the 3/4 number from??
Imagine throwing away your local elections because of a foreign war that could be mitigated if you don’t purity test the fuck out of every voter.
Keep crying about AIPAC, I’m sure that will DEFINITELY get more left leaning democrats elected.
It has worked so many times! Ask Nina Turner or Cory Bush!! They did so well!!
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 6d ago
Quinnipiac
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3929
"In today's poll, Democrats (75 - 18 percent) and independents (66 - 27 percent) oppose sending more military aid to Israel for their efforts in the war with Hamas, while Republicans (56 - 37 percent) support it."
"While 60 percent of Americans say that the United States should support Israel until the remaining hostages are returned, a slight majority (53%) also favor restricting US military aid to Israel so that it cannot be used in military operations against Palestinians. Nearly seven in 10 (68%) Democrats favor such restrictions. Independents are more divided in their views, but more than half (54%) support restricting US military aid to Israel."
Turns out when the majority of your base wants to restrict weapons before the election, and you refuse to, you become unpopular.
Imagine throwing away your local elections because you cared more about your politicians supporting a genocide than taking a moral stance that was popular and would've improved their chances. Also the "crying about AIPAC" doesn't work anymore. Turns out most people don't like blatant purchasing of elections.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
Yeah, “military restrictions”, not “ceasing aid”. I’m not sure if reading is a popular thing in this subreddit. Which Biden did, but no matter what it wouldn’t have been enough because he doesn’t support the dissolving of the state of Israel.
Turns out we really showed them by allowing a dude who has a fucking settlement named after him to fix this mess.
Thank god we didn’t get democrat that might not have done enough, but we can safely exist now where Israel has no limits.
Honestly master class in statesmanship.
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 5d ago
Yeah, “military restrictions”, not “ceasing aid”
They didn't want to do that either. They want to do that now, and at the time too. All depends on the wording of the question, but the intent is clear: show some real opposition to Israel or expect to lose.
Considering you're pro-lobbying of a foreign government, not surprising
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
lol. “Show opposition or expect to lose”
Kids getting bombed by Trump reauthorizing 2000lb bombs in Gaza “Thank you brave American voter!”
Got to love how voting for the lesser harm is somehow the bad choice. 🤣
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u/TrickyTicket9400 6d ago
Among democrats, support for ending aid to Israel was 75%+ under Biden. Here's a gallup poll from 03/2024
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
But he kept sending bombs while saying insane shit like Israel is the only reason a USA Jew like me is safe!
And his administration lied to congress about Israel blocking aid.
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u/Golden_Starman 6d ago
LMAO do you link random shit you’ve never read??
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
”…in their views of the Israeli military action to opposing it. Democrats, who were already largely opposed in November, are even more so now, with 18% approving and 75% disapproving.”
None of those polls said 75% of Democrat voters are against aid to Israel but military action, so keep making shit up or learn to read.
Biden is right but you’re not ready for that conversation…
Oh shit Tliab who has a vested interest in shitting on democrats!
It’s wild how we take fringe views and then vote for worse harm to the people we’re supposed to be protecting.
Lastly, it’s this toddler level understanding of politics that is ruining left leaning politics from succeeding.
“Democrats aren’t perfect, so I’ll deride them which helps gets conservatives elected” Brilliant!!
Remind me again of how many conditions Trump has placed on Israel? EVER??
Like Biden forced Bibi from crushing Raja border but you don’t give a modicum of credit to that. These unwashed losers with 65IQ in this sub make me sick.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-fury-biden-threat-weapons-rafah-attack-rcna151221
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u/TrickyTicket9400 5d ago
Democrats, who were already largely opposed in November, are even more so now, with 18% approving and 75% disapproving.
I'm not reading past your lie. Yeah I spoke wrong and meant they just disapprove of the war. Same thing. My point is still exactly the same.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
75% of people want to end aid to Israel!!
I know so because this polls said “75% want to military restrictions!” AND I CANT READ!!!
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u/TrickyTicket9400 5d ago
I wish you got this angry at the democrats when they lie about starving children to death.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 5d ago
“Democrats aren’t perfect, so I’ll deride them which helps gets conservatives elected” Brilliant!!
We are talking about starving children to death and blowing them up with USA bombs paid for and delivered by the USA. Only a liberal would downplay this policy position and call it 'not perfect'
Should I link you the interview where the Green Beret talks about Israel shooting children in the face right in front of him?
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
Yeah you troglodyte, do you think there is more kids dead with the guy who doesn’t care about it or the women who was wish washy but still said she would make a change??
Do you understand harm reduction?
Do you know how the passage of time works??
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u/TrickyTicket9400 5d ago
The kids are already dead. Gaza is already destroyed. What harm reduction? Biden let Israel do whatever they wanted. They murdered over 100 people seeking flour aid under the Biden admin and he said nothing. In fact, he lied for Israel and said they weren't starving people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_Massacre
I care about people all over the world. The life of a child in Gaza is just as precious as my brother's kid. You do not think all life is precious and you don't care about people in Gaza. You only care about Americans.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
There being single events that are war crimes doesn’t change the broader picture of this 100 year conflict.
Do you even know how many people live in the Gaza Strip??
If Biden was so evil in letting this happen, where would you place the Arab neighbors in their culpability???
The Rafa crossing is blocked by Egypt. How much blood is on their hands?
Do those countries also only care about “American kids”???
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u/TrickyTicket9400 5d ago
If Biden was so evil in letting this happen, where would you place the Arab neighbors in their culpability???
The neighbors weren't shipping bombs to either side. Joe Biden was. Israel has killed civilians in the surrounding countries and you are blaming them???? They blew up an apartment block in Lebanon to kill 1 bad guy.
This response is just evil af.
The Rafa crossing is blocked by Egypt. How much blood is on their hands?
Israel controls the border and refuses aid from the Rafa crossing. You are a terrible person.
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u/Golden_Starman 5d ago
You dodge pressing questions with the best of them.
I guess middle eastern countries do love American kids more than Gazans. 💕
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u/kingSliver187 5d ago
You can't talk about gaza here dark money says so bruh
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