r/tigran • u/SerbianSock • 15d ago
Conflicted about Tigran
I have been a big fan for a long time, but his past visits to israel and his silence on the palestinian genocide have been weighing very heavily on me.
I respect his choice to seperate his private views from his public image, but I can't even enjoy his music anymore with a nagging doubt that maybe he doesn't care. I don't think he's a zionist or anything, but the way things are right now with his past choices or performing in israel he is reaaaally giving a "but do you condemn hamas?", or "hamas were hiding under those hospitals" vibe.
I could not find anything online about this. If someone could ease my mind and allow me to enjoy his wonderful music again, I would be very happy. Or if you suspect the opposite, well it would be a pity.
Please no comments about how politics should be seperate from art, this is not politics this is humanity. Art without humanity is an empty shell.
EDIT: A lot of people are telling me they don't care. Good for you. That was not my question, I didn't ask if i should care. I do. I asked for information that can support or negate my suspicion.
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15d ago
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u/SerbianSock 15d ago
If jewish people can find the balls to stand up to israel's genocide (given the holcaust is more recent than the Armenian genocide), Armenians shoud be able too.
Source: I'm Armenian.
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u/metallica65 15d ago
Lets say Tigran did have dogshit humanitarian views. Does that change his music for you?
If he did agree with you, would you enjoy his music more?
If he keeps music and views separate, is that a deal breaker for you and to not enjoy eg. Mockroot’s syncopated Meshuggah-esque rhythms anymore?
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u/SerbianSock 15d ago
Yes it very much is a deal breaker. I have already stopped listening to some of my favorite artists such as thom yorke and steven wilson becuase of their support of genocide, and it felt like ripping a part of my heart out.
But as a descendent of genocide survivors, or even as a self-respecting human, I cannot listen to the music however good it sounds it just can't mask the images of starving and blown-to-bits babies for me.
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u/ThePianistOfDoom 15d ago
You're just self harming for no other cause then your own. Literally nothing in this world is improving because of your deeds, and now you're turning to the internet to preach your own selfmutilative behavior onto others. I really can't stand this type of preachy bullshit.
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u/Unfair_Ad3221 15d ago
When did he visit Israel? Did he play there?
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u/ThePianistOfDoom 15d ago
I don't care about his political stance, I care about his music. Some of the best composers were absolutely horrible people. All great jazz musicians were heroine/alcohol/whatever there was at the time addicts and a lot of rockstars were sleeping with teenagers. Appreciating someone's music doesn't have to mean you endorse their personality/beliefs.
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u/SerbianSock 15d ago
Did i say his music is shit? Your "political stance", although this is not a political issue as they'd want you to believe, but a human issue, does not influence how good or enjoyable your music is.
You like defending horrible people (I'm not saying tigran is one, on the contrary, which is why i'm disappointed). If there's a sex offender in your neighborhood, or a rapist, would you go to their concerts cause their music is still great? Such a shit argument. Bring pro-genocide is a watered down version of those things. And yes if rockstars are raping teenagers you shouldn't support them either.
Also being an addict in no way makes you a bad person, just a person with an illness.
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u/yodamorsan 15d ago
Apparently your enjoyment of his music does get influenced by him not speaking on the issue.
I would not go to the concert of a sex offender. However I wouldn't not go to the concert of a separate artist for not bringing up the sex offender and sharing their view.
If an artist is behaving terribly, I would probably get an ick from their music. But in my opinion I think it's completely fair for them not to get involved in world affairs and keeping their art above it all. The difference here is that Tigran has not done anything wrong, yet you blame him because you have a personal attachment and closeness to the situation. I'm sorry, but that's a you problem.
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u/SerbianSock 15d ago edited 15d ago
It 100000% is a me problem. It's me. I am seeking for a solution for MY problem. I, and only I, want to know whether he is indeed a genocide apologist or just silent on the matter. Having held concerts in Israel suggests to me that he is the former. I, and only I, could not find anything online that suggests any empathy or support with Palestinians (NO POLITICS INVOLVED).
Thus, I came here, to reddit, to ask if anyone knows anything about this, whether by maybe he has said something during a live show or an interview I have missed.
YOU do not need to have the same problem. If being pro-genocide doesn't faze you from someone's art, awesome. You do you.
I cannot see a way for you to pile more bullshit onto this now. I just want an answer. If you don't have one, I didn't ask for your opinion.
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u/yodamorsan 15d ago
I wish you no ill will, I really do hope that you can find an answer that satisfies you.
But I don't much appreciate your accusatory tone and your sense of self-righteousness in this thread. Me, and everyone else on this subreddit, is a fan of Tigran. When you post something like this, of course we want to chime in and defend him with our perspective on the matter. What kind of community would we be otherwise?
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u/ThePianistOfDoom 15d ago
It is not about finding answers. He just wants an echo chamber to preach to. Fuck his lousy attempt to drag others into self mutilation so he can feel justified.
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u/UkuleleAversion 14d ago
You really get a thrill out of morally elevating yourself above others don't you. If being pro-genocide? He has said nothing you disingenuous fuck.
Also, someone visiting a country does not equal them supporting its government's policies. That is pretty basic logic. But then again, whether or not you realise it, this is about you getting a thrill out of moral grandstanding. Of course if Tigran came out and prattled Zionist talking points, we'd be having a different discussion. Silence is not a crime.
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u/ThePianistOfDoom 15d ago
Lol, most addicts I know are stealing assholes. We can discuss how they got into that situation but that doesn't change their behavior. But here's my unpopular opinion: liking someone's music doesn't need to have anything to do with their personality, political stance or how they behave.
I'm not defending anything and haven't stated my opinion on the atrocities in Gaza, I'm merely stating that you don't always need to know what someone thinks to enjoy their work. I think your opinion about needing to be informed about every possible person you listen to is a pretty toxic one, and your preachy tone is a little shit. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. The past 10 people I passed on the street could've been rapists, murderers or worse. The person in buying something on ebay from could be a nazi. Would I change my behavior towards them if I knew? Probably, but I don't want to, it's incredibly depressing and tiresome to know so much.
When I listen to music I don't think 'I wonder what this musician thinks on problem A or B'. I think going deeper and trying to figure out their life is more prone to worship. I love Tigran's music, but I'm not gonna lick his proverbial balls if he's a good person or write crappy reddit posts when he's a bad one. I just enjoy his music.
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u/UkuleleAversion 15d ago
His silence weighs on you? Really? Have you considered that many people besides yourself realise that words and “voicing support” do absolutely nothing? And that his position as a jazz musician from Armenia wouldn’t give his message much reach anyway? No?
I get your concerns, but think for more than a second about what would follow him speaking on the Gaza genocide. You would probably feel less anxiety and that’s about it.
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u/SerbianSock 15d ago
A) Why the hostile tone?
B) You're delusional. Every single public person standing up makes a difference. He has a huge following and is not just some cafe resident pianist in a yerevan alley, you know? you make it sound like he is. The fact that he is from Armenia is really irrelevant, he is an internationally renowned musician.
C) What would follow him is the support and love. Gone are the days when it's taboo to speak negatively about Israel and be labelled an antisemist. The cat's out of the bag. Large and small artists have found nothing but love following their stances in support of humanity and against genocide.
And most importantly, I don't want to know or for him to do anything to make a change, I'm not asking he takes action. I just want to know for my sake, and I imagine many fans of his as well, feel uneasy supporting him if his stance is a shitty one.
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u/Hammod1 15d ago
honestly ive never heard anything about this. and even if it is true, as long as he is not forcing his opinion on anyone (which clearly is not the case) i couldnt care less. sure its bad, but like, at the end of the day i‘m just here for some really high quality music, and he keeps making it