r/triphop • u/ThaneOfMeowdor • 4d ago

Request/Discussion I think Mezzanine is gothic (as in gothic lit)

Especially Risingson and Angel. Risingson feels like a haunted house but then it's a rave/house party/whatever the shit. But themes like obsession, hauntings, tragic love, dissociation, realisation etc. Imo super gothic.

"Your cheap beer's filled with crocodile tears."

56 Upvotes

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u/summercarnival96 4d ago

a lot of trip hop can be considered "goth" in general, esp the more darker/harsh stuff like yes mezzanine

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

I don't actually know anything about the musical genre "goth", unfortunately, except that I'm aware that it exists. Does it have similar vibes/themes? I just like gothic lit like Wuthering Heights, Beloved, anyhing by Poe and movies like Crimson Peak. Triphop like Mezzanine feels like it's in the spirit of such works.

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u/yourfrienddickey 4d ago

Hello! Goth and Trip Hop fan since the 90’s. I can help with this question. As common with music, there’s a lot of crossover in musical genres. Goth is more of an umbrella term. You have a variety of goth sub genres like death rock, industrial, or ethereal. I think the biggest difference between the two genres is the incorporation of hip hop, soul, RnB, and Jamaican dub into trip hop. I think it’s also important to note that when Massive Attack first came out, they were “lighter” in tone and theme. As we got closer to the millennium, things started to get darker and heavier. So much so that Mushroom decided to part ways with the group due to creative differences with 3D. Mushroom wanted to stay the course with the heavy influences of hip hop and soul while 3D wanted to go in a darker more post punk direction.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

Thank you, that is indeed insightful. Do you know of any musical artists that someone might like if they're into how atmospheric and indeed "gothic" mezzanine is as an album? I like BUSY, noisy music, but I don't necessarily love LOUD. If that makes sense.

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u/targ_ 3d ago

Slightly different style but maybe Interpol's Turn On The Bright Lights or Fontaines DC's Skinty Fia might fit what you're looking for?

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 3d ago

Thanks, I will check it out.

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u/Dj-Wrangler-9251 3d ago

There are a few Bauhaus songs that have some dub influence try “Bela lugosi’s dead”and “She’s in parties”

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u/wildistherewind 3d ago

If you are interested in the intersection between goth and roots reggae, check out the 1974 album Flesh Of My Skin, Blood Of My Blood by Keith Hudson (who was given the nickname “The Dark Prince”).

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u/summercarnival96 4d ago

ure asking the wrong person cuz im not super well-versed on the actual genre either/was using the term the same way u did... but

i do know that particular style of trip hop did take a lot from post-punk, & that genre also influenced/even can be considered goth, so ig theres ur answer.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

Oh lol sorry, I thought that perhaps you were talking about the musical genre! Since I know thats a thing that exists

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u/Massive-Television85 4d ago

Goth is interesting, because whilst the clothing, art and lyrics were very dark, a lot of the music is actually fairly standard 80s pop-rock in my opinion.

The Cure are a typical band - often summer-y tunes and even sometimes lyrics, but sung with a relative lack of emotion by someone with black hair and mascara. 

I'm not an expert, I'm sure fans will tell you more detail.

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u/Capricancerous 4d ago

Listen to Pornography, Disintegration, Faith, Songs of a Lost World and so on, and tell me they are summery tunes, lol. Not all of their songs are "Friday, I'm In Love"

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

Oh by the cure I only know Close to Me which is on our family playlist.

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u/vyq4 4d ago

Agreed. Also, 'I Against I' is industrial.

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u/Ambition_BlackCar 4d ago

I consider Massive Attack goth adjacent since they cover Bauhaus - Bela Lugosi’s Dead live and also feature Elizabeth Fraser from Cocteau Twins (they started out goth) on Teardrop etc

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u/wildistherewind 3d ago

Adding to this, “Man Next Door” samples the Cure and the alternate version of “Superpredators” for the soundtrack to the movie The Jackal samples Siouxsie And The Banshees.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 3d ago

Listening to that band now. I guess I like this genre of music, goth. I didn't know I would!

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u/Massive-Television85 4d ago

Agreed, and I'm sure it's one of the reasons it was so popular (Madonna's Frozen was similarly gothic and popular at that time, and a lot of movies of the late 90s had that "The Crow" aesthetic).

Add in the very urban beats and chilled hip hop vocals, and it's just a perfect blend.

(I also think Portishead have a lot of goth to their music, but that's a different discussion; many of my favourite Trip hop albums and artists are on that side of things like Ulver, Saltillo)

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u/Forward-Advantage-40 4d ago

I used to be a dj in the late 80's and 90's that catered to alternate, industrial, post punk and goth sensibilities. One of my regular nights combined all these genres and had a very diverse crowd. Portishead definitely got the Goths on the dance floor as did most trip hop. It pretty much got everybody moving. The weirdest thing was we used Outlaw Bikers as security and one of them would always request that "jazzy lady that sounds sad". It later became "You gonna play some Portishead"? Pretty much ever sub-culture liked trip-hop when I spun it. It kind of speaks to most people.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

Oh cool, do you recommend any songs in particular from those artists you mentioned? Ulver and Saltillo?

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u/Massive-Television85 4d ago

I'd say albums - Perdition City by Ulver and Ganglion by Saltillo are both great

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

Thank you, I will check them out

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u/Narc78 4d ago

You definitely have a point. Rising Son is btw my favorite song from the album. And Mezzanine.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

Oh yeah those are both great songs! I think Risingson and Angel are mt favorites. Risingson is so layered and Angel is less lyrically layered, but poignant all the same. Mezzanine is good too though from the album.

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u/targ_ 3d ago

One of my favourite songs full stop!

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u/Nihiliste 4d ago

A lot of the music of that era was tinted with pre-millennial tension and nihilism, part of it being a reaction to the (frequently) sanitized pop music of the '80s.

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u/Day-Classic 3d ago

Mezzanine samples lots of goth / post punk records.

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u/epidemicsaints 4d ago

Totally see it. Not to mention it was made closer to midlife, with a decaying party life behind them. I feel like a big part of a gothic setting is being left abandoned in the ruin of a finer time.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 4d ago

That's so poetic!

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u/Working_Armadillo_28 4d ago

That’s a very interesting discussion since i’m not familiar with what is the gothic genre. I used to be emo and now listen to all motherfreacking kind of music and I can’t name their subgenre.

I have such sweet memories of “Black Milk” as a teenager but never fully listened to the album. You motivated me to do so.

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u/Brilliant-Traffic884 3d ago

This conversation reminds me of this picture: Trip Hop is 90s Goth

Of course, there was 90s goth lol, but I have felt similarly about a lot of trip hop! I think you're spot on. I think it shows up in the more industrial and ethereal side of triphop. There's DEFINITELY some overlap! I feel this way about Mezzanine and Portishead's self titled.

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u/ChillDeleuze 3d ago

Goth is a specific flavour of post-punk, and post-punk was one of the main influences of Bristol trip-hop, explicitely mentioned from Portishead (about Dummy in particular).
Portishead in general sounds like some weird half-time post-punk.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 3d ago

I actually had no idea that the musical styles are related at all! I will be checking out some goth music now though. I was purely talking about gothic storytelling, since I don't know much about music.

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u/ChillDeleuze 3d ago

Oh! Well, you're in for a trip ; because goth-rock is not exactly the majestic kind of gothic, but more like some dorky post-modern urban deadpan fun. I guess that part of the reason you're hearing that kind of gothic vibe from Angel, is the whole "slo-mo video" feel to it, which is kinda of a cue for vampire badassery in our day and age. This one vibe is not something that comes to my mind when thinking of goth-rock/post-punk, as it's most often tailored for dancing ; but you might find what you're searching for in the lyrics instead of the music, as these themes are quite common there. You might also find some of that "gothic slo-mo" in the darkwave subgenre (not to be mistaken with the synthwave/outrun stuff like Carpenter Brut). Have fun !

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u/West_Economist6673 3d ago

I can sort of see this, but it’s a hard comparison for me to get fully on board with because gothic literature is, at bottom, capital-R Romantic — big feelings, big scenery, sublimity and terror, that kind of stuff

Mezzanine is an incredible album, and I agree 100% that it’s haunted — by the sampled artists and songs, by the unrealized futures promised by rave, by dub (the most haunted genre) — shit, haunted by Tricky maybe most of all

But it’s also way too attenuated and exhausted to be properly gothic — I would suggest the French symbolists as a better point of comparison

That said, gothic is definitely in the right neighborhood, especially Wuthering Heights

Also I feel like “Man Next Door” is not getting enough love on this thread — talk about haunted

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u/jjazznola 3d ago

Nothing gothic about that great album.

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 3d ago

Do you even know what gothic means

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u/jjazznola 2d ago

I sure do. It actually has multiple meanings. Gothic, Goth music, Southern American Gothic etc ..

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u/ThaneOfMeowdor 2d ago

I’m talking about Gothic sensibility, as in literature and atmosphere. Obsession, decay, psychological torment, erotic dread, haunting. Mezzanine is drenched in it.