After yesterday's Bloodshot/transphobia fiasco, I'm thinking we may need some more rules around here. I'm open to suggestions.

[u/TheFerg714]

Currently, the only rule is that posts and comments have to have something to do with Valiant.

My initial thought is to ban direct insults, but I also kind of appreciate when bigots are insulted, which I realize is a contradiction, so what's the community's perspective on this?

Seeing as this sub is tiny af, I would like to be the kind of sub that allows almost anything. I am also of the perspective that it doesn't do any good to silence bigots and hateful people outright. I believe it's more effective to allow hateful comments so the community can collectively call them out and downvote them into oblivion. This approach serves two purposes: 1) it shows that these people exist but don't represent the Valiant community, and 2) it demonstrates that we're an inclusive community, and it's not just one mod going around and deleting anything he disagrees with.

Yesterday's response to transphobia showed exactly how inclusive the (Reddit) Valiant fanbase is. I'm incredibly proud to be a part of a community that isn't afraid to stand against bigotry and hatred.

Please sound off in the comments!

[u/pinkyetti]

How about allow any and all speech, instead of silencing things u disagree with. Like we get it, reddit is a left wing echo chamber, but maybe that's the problem. No room for differing views. Just cuz something offends people doesn't make it wrong. Trans people don't exist, they have gender dysphoria. The fact that alien books bowed down before these people will bite them in the ass. These are cold hard facts. Or ban me, IDC really.

[u/TheFerg714 → u/pinkyetti]

Trans people have gender dysphoria and also exist. I guess you're the perfect example of people that should be banned here.

EDIT: Yes, I know this comment should be deleted. I'm leaving up for transparency, seeing as this thread is specifically about people like this, which I have banned.

[u/JJaxpavan → u/TheFerg714]

Banning people you disagree with just creates another Reddit echo chamber. Ridiculous notion. You're a mod working for free not a totalitarian. Ban trolls who are stirring the pot just for the sake of being obnoxious, but banning someone outright for having a different viewpoint is horse shit.

[u/TheFerg714 → u/JJaxpavan]

It's not about disagreeing. It's about that guy claiming that trans people don't exist, which is just blatant bigotry.

[u/koreawut → u/TheFerg714]

You specifically brought up the topic, and this is a person's opinion.

I've been here in this sub for some number of years. I don't frequently comment because I don't frequently buy new books and there isn't a whole lot of news that is of interest. I've interacted specifically with you several times in the past.

But simply saying "trans people don't exist" isn't bigotry. It's a false statement, yes. It's a lie. But it's not bigotry. And to immediately decide that someone should be banned for making a statement that does not seek violence or abuse is a little heavy-handed and exactly what people are dealing with in their day to day lives due to an orange humanoid doing exactly the same thing with immigrants and often, citizens.

Please be careful how you move forward with this. If you want to bring up a topic, please don't just claim it's good to ban people who disagree with it.

[u/TheFerg714 → u/koreawut]

"obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

Trans people exist. You admit it yourself. Believing otherwise is obviously bigotry.

[u/koreawut → u/TheFerg714]

No, that is not what bigotry means. If that was bigotry, then everyone who says God doesn't exist is a bigot against people who believe otherwise.

And look at those words. "Obstinate or unreasonable." You have zero claim to know whether that specific commenter was being obstinate or his attachment was unreasonable. You just said, "oh, he believes this thing therefore he is a bigot". That's... that's bigotry.

[u/Cipherpunkblue → u/koreawut]

Erasure of a group of people is *definitely* part of modern bigotry. I suggest reading up more on this before making a confident statement.

[u/koreawut → u/Cipherpunkblue]

And here is where definitions seem to get you. Nobody is erasing anybody. Not only that, but the person saying "trans people don't exist" doesn't literally mean they don't exist, which is another problem, but not the bigger problem. The bigger problem is people reading that, and instantly creating a false narrative about everybody who may or may not say something along those lines.

It's a communication issue, first and foremost. And when someone chooses not to make an effort in understanding what the other person is saying, it's them that shuts down that conversation.

But modern humans really aren't interested in communication. The internet and social media has promoted the idea of point and scream so much that there's very little room for communication or understanding.

Most people who supposedly say trans people shouldn't exist, or should be dead, or whatever? Most of them aren't saying that. Don't get me wrong, a lot of them are, but most aren't. That's a misrepresentation of words that others are forcing onto them, before ignoring/blocking/banning them.

[u/Cipherpunkblue → u/koreawut]

Saying "trans people do not exist" is the very definition of erasure. If someone says that and means something else, it is not up to others to make shit up to excuse their poor communication skills.

[u/koreawut → u/Cipherpunkblue]

To you, who has chosen to never try and understand what they meant by that. They very, very clearly don't mean there is no physical human being inhabiting the space that a trans person is inhabiting.

If you decide not to try and understand what they mean, you are part of the problem. If you decide what they mean without trying to understand them, you are the problem.