r/vancouverhiking • u/pincha077 • May 27 '25
Conditions Questions (See Guide before posting) Do i need bear spray?
I'm planning to hike Panorama Ridge this Wednesday, May 28th, since the forecast is calling for sunshine all day. I know it's a challenging one-day trek, but I’ve done several high-altitude (14,000+ ft) Himalayan treks before, so I’m confident in managing the distance and elevation.
Quick question: Is it necessary to carry bear spray? Also, since it's a weekday, do you think there will be many other hikers on the trail?
Feel free to DM me if you're planning the same hike and would like to team up! Thanks!
Edit : Thank you each and everyone for all the comments and guidance. I would like to add that I am not avalanche trained. The only mountain gear i have is trek boots and hiking poles. The weather prediction for wednesday is 9 to 24 degree celsius so I believe the risk of avalanche is more. Should i still attempt doing it or return from garibaldi lake? Thank you everyone again.
Final edit : Thank you all for your helpful suggestions! You all clearly have way more experience, and after reading your comments, I’ve decided to hold off on doing Panorama Ridge for now and give it another shot in the summer when the snow’s gone. I genuinely appreciate every one of you for keeping me grounded (come on, I’m 23 - if I’m not making questionable decisions now, am I even doing my twenties right?).
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u/Ryan_Van May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
Probably decent odds you’ll see a black bear up there. I guess spray or not depends on your level of bear awareness, comfort, etc.
Lots of snow on latest reports so skis or snowshoes definitely. And of course avalanche rescue gear and training, it goes without saying.
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u/cascadiacomrade May 27 '25
I'd be far more concerned about snow conditions than bears, but a can of bear spray is never a bad thing to carry.
Read the recent Alltrails reports. Be aware of avalanche risk, cornice hazard, snow-bridges, post-holing, etc. Spikes, gaiters, poles, and snowshoes (or skis) highly recommended past Garibaldi Lake.
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u/cascadiacomrade May 27 '25
Read your edit. Would not recommend going past the lake without equipment and training, especially alone. The warm weather, while enticing, makes the snow conditions more dangerous. If you're able, come back July-October for Panorama Ridge!
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u/BCRobyn May 27 '25
Snow and winter conditions and having all the appropriate winter mountaineering gear and avalanche skills would be more of a concern than bear spray. Folks who aren’t familiar with the Coast Mountains typically don’t know that these alpine trails become free of snow by mid-July. Unless you’re experienced with winter alpine forays, I’d stay clear of this hike until July.
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u/BCRobyn May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
Edit: Given your new updates, I'd say this is not a realistic hike for you as it won't be safe or accessible for you. It's a seasonal hike that's only accessible from July to October to somebody with your skills. As a casual summer hiker, you need lower elevation trails at this time of the year. Consider the Stawamus Chief instead.
You might also want to watch Search & Rescue: North Shore (stream it online for free on the Knowledge Network website) as you'll see the reality of hiking alpine trails at this time of the year, when it's hot and summery in the city but the trails are still snow-covered on the mountains, and the countless rescue missions the local organizations go on rescuing naive hikers attempting to hike the mountains in the snow without the experience, skills, or equipment: Search and Rescue: North Shore | Knowledge.ca. It's just a sobering reality check after watching a few episodes. This isn't meant to shame you but the series is excellent and so worth watching just in general, but especially if you're new to hiking the Coast Mountains, the show will teach you so much.
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u/Ryan_Van May 27 '25
After your edit - without avy training and gear do NOT do Panorama, especially with the weather forecast.
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u/apple_cheese May 27 '25
Better to carry spray and not use it than to not have spray when you need to use it.
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May 27 '25
Regarding your edit, it's not even close to doable for you, you will encounter a lot of snow once you start gaining altitude above 1000, no alpine hikes are even close to ready north of Vancouver, probably a month or two away unless your avalanche trained and bringing equipment to travel across deep snow for long distances, prepared for unexpected snow/ice formations and serious rescue scenarios
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u/jpdemers May 27 '25
/u/pincha077: Past Taylor Meadows, avalanche hazards exist and are serious. The current warm weather contributes to increasing the risk.
I'm copying below my comment from two weeks ago, when someone asked whether Panorama Ridge is safe or not at this time of the year. Not much has changed since then except the snowline might be 50-100 metres higher.
Note: Several hikers have started climbing to Panorama Ridge now, without avalanche equipment and even solo, without anyone that could rescue them! Succeeding the ascent doesn't mean that the trail is without risk.
When judging the avalanche hazard, one famous method is to look at three important variables (terrain, weather, snowpack) to plan a safe trip. Then with the team make a strategy to reduce the risks and consequences.
This requires the first class of Avalanche Safety Skills (AST1). The AST1 class also teaches how to do a companion rescue using the shovel, probe, beacon.
Note: At the moment, the snow might start somewhere between elevations 900m-1000m. At 1100m, the snow depth is above 1m deep, and above elevations 1400m-1500m there could be more than 2 metres. When the snow will melt below 50-60cm deep, it will be considered 'below threshold' with no more risk. For the highest elevations, it will take several weeks for the snowpack to reduce that much.
| Important variable | Question | May 9 Panorama Ridge |
|---|---|---|
| Terrain (terrain analysis) | Is the terrain capable of producing avalanches? | * Yes. Past Taylor Meadows, the Panorama Ridge trail goes into through Challenging terrain, or even Complex terrain (multiple overlaping avalanche paths). We can know that by using the Avalanche Canada ATES evaluation (Avalanche Terrain Exposure Scale) and zooming Panorama Ridge. The trail to the Ridge is Challenging, but it is surrounded by Complex areas on the sides. * Steepness: In several areas, the trail will pass near or under steep slopes (30 to 45 degrees) where avalanches occur. The trail traverse some avalanche paths and we know this because we see that the trees have been killed. |
| Snowpack (stability evaluation) | Could the snow slide? | Yes. The region is under spring conditions where the snowpack has very little internal structure. Intermediate elevations have 'isothermal snow' which is mushy and wet. It can form wet loose avalanches. Higher elevations might go through a 'spring diurnal' melt-freeze cycle every day, where the cold temperature forms a crust at the surface during the night. This can also form wet loose avalanches. |
| Weather (avalanche forecasting) | Is the weather contributing to instability? | Yes. The heat from the sun makes the snow more weak and unstable. For example, when crossing under the South slopes of Black Tusk. * Also, there might be some leftover cornices. |
| Human factors (decision making) | What are the alternatives and their possible consequences? | The Panorama Ridge trail is relatively easy to handle for an experienced group with adequate avy training and equipment. * But because summer is starting in the cities, hikers without training or gear now also want to reach this iconic objective. They will not make a careful trip plan, and they might not know the basic telltale signs of snow instability. |
- 93% of avalanche incidents in North America are triggered by the victim or someone from the same party. Incidents are avoidable!
- In addition to avalanche risks, there are also risks of injuries linked with a slip-and-fell on steep icy slope, and with uncontrolled glissading on the snow ('bum sliding').
Have a look at the Avalanche resources for winter hiking to learn more.
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u/numberknitnerd May 27 '25
Expect snow from Garibaldi Lake and beyond, and make sure that you have avalanche safety gear. Panorama Ridge is often covered in snow well into July.
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u/Conscious_Mention695 May 27 '25
The lake may still be mostly frozen meaning if you get to panorama ridge you won’t have that blue water view you may be expecting.. in addition to others comments about conditions and gear
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u/Mdaumer May 27 '25
You'll be upset if you don't have it when you actually need it. I never go i to the woods without bear spray.
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u/Nearby-Pudding5436 May 27 '25
Bear spray is NEVER a bad idea. Not to say bears are always super dangerous, but as something to have for contingency reasons
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u/OplopanaxHorridus May 27 '25
My personal opinion is no, not on a busy trail like that. I'm probably going to be downvoted for this, but my experience is that bears are only dangerous when they're unfamiliar with humans and/or are surprised by them. Panorama ridge is one of the busiest trails in the province and every bear in the area is going to know all about the people there.
Different story if you are camping as the food is often unattended and the familiarity of the bears in that area function against you in that circumstance. A few years back a local bear figured out the food cache and they had to close the Taylor Meadows campsite.
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u/onosimi May 28 '25
All it takes is to spook some cubs and mama bear can charge. Always a good idea to be prepared for any situation including animals. Carry the spray
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u/OplopanaxHorridus May 28 '25
I agree, but my point here is the bears near that, and other busy trails, aren't taking their cubs anywhere close to the trails. The place where you're most likely to spook a bear, cubs or not, is near a river or creek where you approach without them hearing, seeing or smelling you - which is where it is important to make noise.
This is just my personal opinion of course
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u/onosimi May 28 '25 edited May 28 '25
I lived in Whistler forever , I've seen valley bears that see tonnes of people charge. They're unpredictable if they feel threatened. Its very common to see sows with cubs even in my backyard. Bears roam , Garibaldi is huge, who knows what malnourished bear you may encounter. We have Grizzles now too. I've never had to deploy bear spray on anything but it's gives a little piece of mind that atleast you were prepared the best you could be..like an inreach I've never pressed SOS but always carry it
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u/OplopanaxHorridus May 28 '25
Oh I agree. Habituated bears that go into urban areas can be dangerous. They're similar to the ones that go for the food at campgrounds.
The bears on the Garibaldi Park trail aren't seeking out humans though - just the food at the campgrounds.
Basically there is always a chance you're going to encounter some dangerous hungry bear. That chance is vanishingly small on the very busy trails of Garibaldi Park. It is much higher in Whistler Village where the habituated bears aren't afraid of humans.
Ironically, the advice to carry bear spray should be given to people in the village.
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u/onosimi May 28 '25
Have you ever seen a soccer field with snow on it ? Lol , it's still full on winter in the alpine
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u/Jaded-Influence6184 May 30 '25
Aside from the "lots of snow up their still comments"
YES. This is still spring and bears are still just out of hibernation and are hungry as hell. You WILL BE in bear country where hungry bears live (and cougars!). Chances are a bear will run away, no worries, right? OK, what if the bear doesn't run away, no worries, right? Yeah, wrong.
Plan on what can go wrong, not what if it all goes perfect. Especially if 'going wrong' can kill you. Speaking of which, yes there is still a lot of snow up there. You aren't hiking at sea level, you are hiking in either full winter or at least winter-ish conditions. Bring a back pack with the kind of stuff that can keep you alive overnight for a couple days if there is a problem (in cold/sub-zero C weather). That includes shelter, sleeping bag, some food, and a GPS device and satellite communication (text only or also voice, and make sure it's charged). Don't trust on your phone being of help, people have died even on North Shore mountains doing that.
I know you said you've hiked the Himalayas before. But asking if you need bear spray to hike in bear country says you are not experienced hiking in Canada. And yes, there are also grizzly bears where you are going, not many, but they are there. Please take a 'bear aware' course or at least read up on it. Also about cougars.
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u/Celery-Witty May 31 '25
I was just up at the Taylor Meadows last week and there is still at least 6 feet of snow. It was passable with crampons but honestly required snow shoes or even skis. I cut down to the lake at the black tusk junction and the trail was not marked and conditions were dicey. Panorama ridge will be super sketchy right now. I also have seen numerous bears out and have spray and bangers just in case. I did need to use a banger for some bears getting too close to camp (this was not in the high alpine). It’s bad for them to feel comfortable with humans - can get them killed unfortunately.
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u/Tyrannosaur863 May 31 '25
OP appreciate you taking the feedback seriously and not taking offence ☺️ Everyone here has your best interests at heart and want you to have a fun, safe time! I would say in later summer Taylor Meadows is an area bears like but I wouldn’t worry as long as you make a bit of noise when you’re going through areas w thicker vegetation just to lake sure you don’t surprise anything.
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u/IHaveAGinourmousCock May 27 '25
There’s only black bears up there and they’re pretty nice. I never take bear spray and I wouldn’t recommend it. If you do take it, only use it if the bear becomes aggressive and charges at you
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u/cascadiacomrade May 27 '25
There are grizzlies in Garibaldi park but not many. They're more common on the west side of the Cheakamus River or further north. They even wander into the town of Squamish every now and then.
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