r/vandwellers • u/Last_Tip_6794 • 3d ago
Builds About 1 month living in
Day 1 how it started + the moment I plugged in to my own source of energy, about 2 weeks ago. Still a wonderfull feeling!
I am looking to insulate before winter hits basically without any carpenting.. Still figuring it out.
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u/eczblack 3d ago
I like this approach because you can adapt it as you live in it, without having to do a big build first. If it were me, I'd look into putting thermal or insulated curtains up for the colder weather. Just hang them up with magnets. It will keep the weight down without having to build anything on the walls, easy to clean and launder at end of season, plus the walls will breathe and not build up moisture. Look into also having a heated blanket. Way cheaper and easier to heat yourself than heating a space. Even if you just put the heated blanket under you to keep the chill off. We do this on our sofa in the winter and it's very cozy.
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u/tocahontas77 3d ago
Hot water bottles will keep you toasty warm, and takes no electricity. I love them. Use with caution though.
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u/nachosareafoodgroup 2d ago
I was just looking at getting one. What’s your strategy? How do you heat the water? Do you reuse the water?
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u/tocahontas77 2d ago
Electric kettle, boiling a pot of water and using a funnel, hot water from the coffee tap in a gas station. You can reuse the water, but I would not put used water back into a container that you use for cooking. That rubber isn't food safe.
You have to be careful not to fill it too much, and be very careful when squeezing the air out and putting the cap on. It says do NOT use boiling water. Check the expiration date on it to make sure it's still good (expiration date is to make sure it doesn't break and burn you).
I used 3 in my bed when I was staying in England in the winter. Heating is expensive, so I just used those. They would heat me out of my bed in the middle of the night! But they come in handy for muscle pain, as well. Pro tip: Put them in your bed, under your blankets, about 30 minutes before you want to lay down. It'll be cozy and warm!!
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u/PMG2021a 2d ago
Plenty of safe alternatives to those old style rubber bottles.
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u/tocahontas77 2d ago
Such as?
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u/revnhoj 2d ago
something like camelbak maybe
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u/tocahontas77 2d ago
Can they hold hot water? Hot water bottles are designed to safely hold hot water. That's the point lol.
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u/PMG2021a 2d ago
Glass bottles, cheap thermous with poor insulation, etc. I have re-used regular plastic water bottles filled with very hot tap water before, although I wouldn't drink it. Even a pot of water with a lid on it would work. Water is very convenient for thermal battery use if you have access to an external source. If you are using your own power to heat a thermal battery, you can save space by heating something denser like sand, bricks, or metal.
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u/tocahontas77 2d ago
What? I think you may be confused. I'm talking about a rubber hot water bottle. You just add hot water. There's no batteries involved.
Also, it's much safer to use the rubber bottles than anything else, as they are made for that purpose. They're also fairly cheap! It's better to stay safe, friend!
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u/PMG2021a 2d ago
A rubber hot water bottle is a "thermal battery". It stores and releases heat. The same concept is implemented in many different ways by different cultures using things as simple as just heated rocks to greenhouse style rooms with thick floors that release heat at night.
My point was just that you can be creative with alternative options if you are in a situation where you want to reuse hot water for drinking the next day.
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u/tocahontas77 2d ago
Ah I see! I've never heard of the term "thermal battery", and thought you were talking about electricity lol. My bad! Thanks for clearing that up.
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u/Severe_Opinion_4411 3d ago
🫡 Inspirational mate & a direction I will be going in, in the near future myself..Good Luck!
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u/its_a_throwawayduh 2d ago
I like how simple this build really is for me as long as I have electricity I could hit the road today. Only thing I would need is a mattress for my sciatica. Heating wouldn't be a problem for me I love the cold. Cooling is another issue though. I'd need AC. That's why if anything I want to have the electrical done plus I work alot on my computer.
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u/clint_eats_wood_ 3d ago
That's a lithium battery you've made with single cells your self? Something I'm looking to do, is it much cheaper? And how difficult was It to do? And what size is your battery?
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u/Last_Tip_6794 3d ago
Indeed, Yes it is! Not hard at all. Three times cheaper, feels like hacking the system. All you need is BMS. They are 8 EVE cells from Ali that make 24V 320ah battery. That’s soo much energy at good price I had to do it:) And so little people talk about it. Just top balance them in parallel to be sure. Connect them in series with proper copper busbars, connect the BMS and you are done!
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u/ziggo0 3d ago
Which solar panels are those? They fit so...so very nicely, I like it. Are they load bearing at all? Nice job man
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u/Last_Tip_6794 2d ago
500W (Leapton LP182*210). Says dual glass so kinda good against environment I guess but I wouldn’t be stepping on it max leaning on a little along the edges. They sure are not lightweight tho.. TY, they lie on just two alu bars along sides with rivet nuts in them. Will have to see the test of time..
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u/redundant78 2d ago
DIY lithium packs can save you 40-60% vs premade ones, but make sure you have a proper BMS and dont skimp on cell balancing - the fire risk isnt worth saving a few bucks.
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u/GlumAir89 2d ago
check out foresty forest on Youtube if you want to see someone that built out their van while living in it. He has been living in it for a couple years now but if you scroll through his videos you’ll see how much he did while living in it and the reasoning that went into his personal layout.
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u/i-Poker 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is that wool? For the love of god, don't use any organic materials for insulation, in cold climates you will get mold eventually and inside that small space it can be deadly. There's been at least one social media van dweller that I know of who found this out the hard way and got a lung infection and almost died, and his lungs still aren't recovered.
Stick to closed cell foams that hold none or extremely little moisture and can't mold.
On a budget: XPS on the floor, walls and roof - with edges sealed so vapor can't get underneath. Thinsulate in the cavities. At least 9 mm Armaflex XG (or similar flexible self-adhesive closed cell foam) over the ribs, overlapping the XPS ~30-50 mm and taped at the joints, making a water proof membrane. Will prevent mold but will potentially form rust if vapor finds it's way in to the gap between the XPS and metal.
Ideally: XPS on the floor. Armaflex 9-13 mm covering ALL other bare metal and overlapping and sealed with Armaflex tape. Thinsulate goes inside cavities. XPS or Thinsulate on top of the Armaflex as filler, sealed tight at the joints if XPS. Will prevent all mold and most of the rust except the floor and inside the ribs (anywhere the Armaflex adheres = no rust, and vice versa).
Absolutely no wood touching bare metal anywhere, dew will 1000% form there and the wood will rot and mold, it's only a matter of time - make sure the wood goes on top of a layer of Armaflex and use a bit of XPS as spacer to account for compression. You will also get dew on any exposed metal so make sure to Armaflex on most of the doors and prepare to dry off exposed windows and metal joints after cold nights. The more exposed metal = the more drying.
"Breathing" is nonsense. Dew forms from warm, moist air hitting a cold surface and the gases transforming to liquids at the dew point. What closed cell insulation does is it traps that dew point inside the foam itself where dew can't form. But if you use wool then the wool will trap the dew point and moisture will form inside that wool. And with an organic material that's a horrible idea and those who market it as safe should be going to prison. The only "breathable" material you need is the plywood or panels that goes ON TOP of the vapor proof closed cell layer that traps the dew point. Imagine the metal being a water glass. The air outside being the cold water in the glass. Warm air hits the glass and dew forms. Putting wood or wool on it would be like wrapping the glass in a paper towel. But a closed cell foam would be more like swapping the glass for a thermos, the dew point is trapped inside the material itself. And the absolute best material for doing this is Armaflex (or equivalent) since it has been designed to prevent warm air ducts and water pipes from sweating and causing water damage.
Use a 2 kW diesel warmer rather than a 5 kW. The former is enough to heat the space with proper insulation and since it's running closer to peak efficiency it wont soot up as easily. When you hear about chinese diesel warmers breaking it's because people oversize their diesel warmers and run them at 10-20% or whatever which will inevitably make them soot up.
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u/Last_Tip_6794 1d ago
Yes that is sheep wool, also wool blankets the best material against mold, regulating humidity and cleaning air. You are especially wrong in that part. It absolutely needs to breathe, that is common sense for the humidity to get out. If you want to slap xps desks on your walls and trap moisture behind them, be my guest. Don’t forget to seal it properly and install useless vapour barrier.
On the floor I have treated expanded cork which is also wonderfull 100% natural material and keeps me warm because I am floor sleeper and I love it. That’s also the reason I didn’t install any cold flooring.
I have absolutely nothing drilled or glued to the floor and I can take it all apart in a matter of minutes. Yes I could foam spray all walls, everything. As you, I think suggest that foam is a good material. Which I rather find very impractical in the end and also toxic and messy to work with. Also I don’t want to turn my van into oven when it heats up during hot days and won’t cool down at night. Wool does absorb moisture and also release it, that’s exactly why I use it. I guarantee I will have no humidity and condensation problems.
I agree with your recommendation to let the diesel heater run faster. I would also be using diesel with additives and I am also not really fan of the Chinese loud ones.
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u/i-Poker 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes that is sheep wool, also wool blankets the best material against mold, regulating humidity and cleaning air. You are especially wrong in that part.
I used to work as an insulation guy and I'm telling you it's not. It's somewhat resistant to mildew but it will end up getting mold in continuously moist conditions, and it WILL be continously damp and moist if it's touching cold metal walls inside a warm van. And like a wool sock or whatever, it wont simply dry out instantly and the metal walls are going to keep adding and adding water to it. If you're in hotter conditions you can get away with it because the temperature differences inside and outside aren't as great and you're "only" asking it to handle the moisture you produce and not worrying so much about dew, but I'm interpreting "insulate before winter hits" that you're gonna hit minus temps Celsius and if so that wool is gonna be a health and rust hazard unlike anything else.
But don't trust me, here's what Gemini has to say about it:
Yes, wool can mold, although it's naturally resistant to mildew due to its waxy lanolin, moisture-wicking properties, and keratin structure, which is a poor food source for fungi. Mold will grow on wool in conditions of high humidity (above 92% relative humidity), warm temperatures, poor air circulation, and when the wool is soiled or has lost its natural protective lanolin coating. To prevent mold, store wool in dry, well-ventilated areas, dry wet wool items quickly, and fix any leaks that could increase humidity.
And here's (at the 21 min mark) what a professional campervan/bus converter has to say about it. He's pretty mad, because he feels, like I do, that the companies selling this bs and pushing it on influensers for sponsorships, are gambling with people's health and also their expensive vans. It's incredibly irresponsible.
Cork can also mold. It's not nearly as risky as the wool but there is a tiny risk.
If you want to slap xps desks on your walls and trap moisture behind them, be my guest. Don’t forget to seal it properly and install useless vapour barrier.
Ok, so you're comparing a the potential of a very small amount of vapor (that per logic can get out the same way it came in) forming dew on a material that can't mold, to a material that literally wicks water and breaks down over time. They're not comparable. At all. This idea that your van will "breathe" and your wool will magically dry out after absorbing tons of dew during the night, or even the day if it's really cold, is simply not realistic. It's gonna get wetter and wetter and wetter until it simply can't hold anymore moisture.
As you, I think suggest that foam is a good material. Which I rather find very impractical in the end and also toxic and messy to work with.
You're confusing spray foam with closed cell foam in general. XPS is a closed cell foam but not a spray foam. And Armaflex is like the name suggests a flexible closed cell foam that has been designed to wrap around ducts and pipes to stop dew/condensation from forming; ie, exactly what you'd want it to do in a van.
Look, dude, I'm not gonna try keep convincing you. It's your health and your van and you do you. I'm just telling you that if you want sustainable insulation that wont make you sick and destroy your van within a few years, then you will opt for a closed cell foam vapor barrier that can't hold moisture and can't mold. Or, alternatively, you skip "winter" and drive your van to a spot where the inner and outer temp doesn't differ much and make sure your van is properly ventilated so your wool can "breathe".
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u/iDaveT 8h ago
Wool is fine. Don’t listen to that guy. I have Havelock Wool insulation in my van and wood panels screwed to the metal and everything is fine no mold. I have a 5kw Diesel Heater and it’s definitely nice to have the extra heating capacity when it’s cold or when you’re trying to warm up quickly in the morning.
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u/dionysoius 3d ago
Those solar panels on top are awesome