r/whowouldwin May 22 '23

Event Battle-Boarder Brawl BatCap Round 2!

BatCap Round 2!

Rules


Out of Tier Rules

  • For Out of Tier requests, simply ping me with /u/corvette1710 on Reddit and state your case for why you believe someone's combatant is out of tier, then proceed with the debate as per normal. I will evaluate that request individual of the debate itself and make my decision with judge input in judgments. The character limit on OOT requests is 10k.

Reminder: I maintain the right to DM any user I believe to be skirting OOT lines and make my own OOT accusation, with said user having until the end of the round to defend themselves.


Battle Rules

  • All combatants are aware of the basics of their allies' combat abilities but are in the blind on their opponents (unless they have canon knowledge of said person via sharing a fictional universe)
  • All combatants have a full understanding of the map layout, including the bounds
  • All combatants are fully aware that their enemy must be defeated for them to be able to survive, to be able to return to their home reality, and for the omnipotent organizers of this scenario to be satisfied. All combatants are aware of rules for the objective of the tournament
  • Incapacitation is defined by being unable to continue fighting. Being knocked out, being killed, being BFRd, or fully succumbing to exhaustion. If this condition is met for more than 10 full seconds, your character loses, and in a 3v3, they are removed from the arena in a flash of light after being incapacitated for 10 seconds. To reiterate, combatants are aware of this rule. Note that being restrained does not count as being unable to fight if it's something like a physical grapple or generally something that needs concentration to maintain, for example, you can't hold someone in a full nelson for 10 seconds to delete them from a 3v3.
  • Summons or 'fake' characters do not count for the purpose of a win condition - for instance, if a conjurer died in a 1v1 and left behind his 2 zombies, he would still automatically lose. This also applies to hive-minds or drone characters. This also means that characters who can reasonably be considered one entity can be run with ruling on a case by case basis, and will likely need to have a Prime Entity stipulated. This is, as well, determinable case by case without a specific end all be all example.
  • Every combatant starts each round being teleported into the arena, knowing full well whomever they face down needs to die or be incapacitated in order for they themselves to advance and win and will do so.

Round 2 is 3v3.

In Round 2, the lineup order is ACB-132.

  • Higher seed is letters, lower seed is numbers.
  • Higher seed will be the first person mentioned in the match's parent post.
  • Orientation is as marked on the map diagram.

All combatants begin without any weapons drawn or abilities active, hands idle at their sides, and the moment they teleport in they can begin combat. All combatants are in-character for the tourney itself. Characters with holsters or similar will begin with their weapons holstered, characters with weapons that cannot feasibly be holstered will begin with the weapons pointed at the ground.

The Map - Eichenwalde, Night

Here is a full walkthrough of the area. It is dusk, and it will be fully night five minutes after the match starts. All lighting comes from the moon and from torches.

The teams start approximately 7 meters apart; I have put together a few images, including diagrams and screenshots, of the map near the starting area. The map is open to them, generally.

There are places to break line of sight with the other team within a few steps' reach for both teams. Alternatively, the area between the teams is clear and relatively flat. This is so that brawlers can brawl and ninjas can ninja.

The bounds of the map are encased in an invisible, impenetrable whowouldwinium box. It detects fuckery, and if you try to cheese it, it deletes you.

There is a BFR ("battlefield removal" or "ring-out") mechanic, however; the Ravine beneath the bridge contains a river that will drown any character that is thrown or falls in and cannot return to the map (defined as any place within bounds that can be stood upon normally) under their own power or with the help of a teammate within ten seconds.

It does not matter if your character can breathe water or swim like a fish; the liquid is characterrantide and is chokingly toxic only after ten continuous seconds of exposure. There are no adverse effects before ten seconds and until that time it is physically equivalent to water in every other way. It similarly detects fuckery and deletes you if you try to cheese it.

Schedule

The round begins when this post goes up, on or about midnight EST May 21-22. The round ends midnight EST June 2-3. If you have not been granted a specific extension, any posts made after the deadline will not be counted.

Your first post must be sent to me by midnight EST of May 25-26. From then on, simply finish with either 2 or 3 responses apiece before the round ends.

Responses

In this tournament, I will use what I call "hybrid" structure; you and your opponent will send your Intro and/or Response 1 to me or someone I delegated to the task on Reddit via direct message, and then you and your opponent will decide which of you will be the first to post your Response 2, proceeding as would be normal in the sequential format.

The character limit is 10k for an Intro (the Intro post is itself optional) where you post your character's stats without comparing them to your opponent's. The character limit for responses in Round 2 is 20k characters. After a debate has had 3 responses each, you may add a conclusion of up to 5k characters which introduces no new arguments or scans.

Brackets

Here is a link to the bracket.

Links

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u/corvette1710 May 27 '23

/u/ame-no-nobuko /u/joseph_stalin_

Both your Response 1s are up.

2

u/Ame-no-nobuko May 30 '23

Response 2 Pt 1



R1 - Stats


R1.1 - Offense

Luka

  • Piercing - Cutting super bullets in half doesn't let you claim that your sword is sharper than those bullets. Its a durability question not a sharpness. All this scan shows is that her sword has pretty good piercing resistance. If anything all the force the bullet is applying as it hits the edge of the sword is helping the sword cut better than it would normally.

  • Blunt Force - His blunt force is good, but he does get stunned by a mascot head(?) being chucked at him, and he lets Bayonetta chain multiple hits on him after getting hit once by a hit thats too weak to even break a wall.

  • Everything Else - Luka has no electricity, fire or poison resistance. Batman one shots using his taser or KO gas, Sara using her fire blasts/electricity, and Roland fucks him up with his LSD tear gas.

Lady

Lady literally just dies to anything my team decides to throw at her. If she gets tagged once she's out.

Cass

All the Cass scaling is bad. Like half of its just bad feats, and the other half is scaling a serious striking feat to a sparing session.

1) This is Cass when she is drugged up with a serum that basically bloodlusts her, and PC Batman leads her around for awhile as a form of therapy. He's not going all out. Also the feat linked is Batman punching a fist sized hole in like 1/4th inch metal? Thats nothing compared to my team

2) The Deathstroke feats are just bad. Punching Dick back 15 feet isn't good for the tier, and slightly embedding Deadshot's head into a metal of unknown thickness isn't good either

3) The NW scan is during a training session, and he hits her with an overhead strike, not a kick. Due to human physiology kicks will basically always be stronger than punching.

The main issue though is that Cass never cleanly takes a hit in any of these scans. Blocking with her arms is proof I guess that her bones won't break against these kinds of forces, but theres no proof that she can withstand getting hit in the head or the gutswithout getting taken out.

She also lacks esoteric resistance, so again oneshot

R1.2 - Piercing Resistance

See my first response for my teams piercing durability

Also as an aside, to stress, Luka's claws don't scale to a monster that can tank tank fire. The scaling is to anti-personnel weapons, a sabot round is not anti-personnel. Maybe HE rounds are, but HE rounds don't pierce

Regarding Stalin's claims:

Batman

This is in contrast to his feats, in which he:

Thats if he is even hit in the first place, as Bruce routinely evades everything from small arms to machine and guns. The RT has dozens of times he's done so

Roland

Off the bat its important to stress that firearms in Roland's future are much stronger than anything IRL. Bullet proof armor from even just before the recent civil war is 100% useless against modern firearms. Any caliber of gun Roland encounters will be magnitudes stronger than its IRL counterpart.

Additionally for the most of the series Roland is running around basically naked, while I am running him at the end of the book where he has thick metal/boron carbide armor.

Even if you can damage Roland, gunfire is probably the least effective way to do so. When he faces guns specifically designed to hurt him, he remains completely functional despite losing part of his skull, his knee and his hand.

Roland has multiple back-ups for every major organ, and can heal his entire shoulder back in a few seconds. Even blasting a large hole in his head is at best a distraction. There is no universe where piercing is a valid win con vs. Roland. You could maybe distract him with it, but he'll quickly be back up and hitting you.

While Roland often does just tank gunfire, he won't be doing so against Lady. Roland has the entirety of future-wikipedia downloaded into his brain, and his AI provides facial identification abilities. As Lady and DMC has a reasonably put together wikipedia page, Roland will at least know she exists in a world of magic guns as soon as he sees her face, and he will act accordingly.

Sara

Sara's armor can withstand piercing attacks that can cleave cars in two.

In basically all the scans Stalin linked of Sara "willingly" being shot, she knew who the shooter was. Against unknown opponents or when she is questioning herself or knows there is danger she dodges. I think "dropped into a death arena qualifies as a few of these.

R1.3 - Blunt Force Resistance

Only Luka has relevant striking, so this will focus on him. Stalin presents this feat for Luka's striking. Its good, but not as much as he claims it is relative to my teams feats:

As an aside punching a few times in a row isn't a notable occurence, thats just basic combat competency.

2

u/Ame-no-nobuko May 30 '23

Response 2 Pt 2



R1.4 - Speed

While I don't fundamentally disagree that Stalin's team is around bullet timing, many of the examples he uses are overblown.

My team in contrast has very clear feats.

Luka

Lady

Cass

Not going to go into the feats, except to note that the Batman in question she dodges is Post Crisis Batman. I am not running Post Crisis Batman.


R2 - Range

Overview

My team has range, but they certainly aren't reliant on it. If this somehow ends up being a ranged fight, regardless of how hard Stalin's team is to hit, mine will still come out on top. Only Lady has any ranged option on his team, while as Stalin notes everyone has range on mine:

My team is also equally good at avoiding projectiles at range:

Specifics

To address some of Stalin's claims:



A3 - Batman's Skill

Batman is an incredibly skilled combatant, knowing 127 martial arts, which he regularly combines to optimize each move he makes in combat.

Skill like this acts as a psuedo buff to speed, allowing him to anticipate and dodge foes better, and make or take advantage of openings better. Bruce's skill and agility are things he heavily abuses in fights, allowing him to destabilize opponents, and avoid attacks that a lesser combatant couldn't. It doesn't whatever slight speed advantage Cass has if her ass is on the ground



Conclusion/Course of the Fight

Even in a straight head on fight., this isn't an easy fight for Stalin's team.

Cass is completely useless. She can't hurt my team in any way and if she gets tagged once by anything she is out of the fight. Lady's guns aren't going to be effective at range, both due to my teams piercing resistance, and due to their speed making it much harder to hit (especially at long range). She also dies in one hit Luka is the only person on Stalin's team who doesn't go down instantly to literally everything my team has. He can take a few good punches, and maybe can withstand some of the piercing, but he still gets one shot by any of my teams electric, fire or toxin based attacks.

This is all compounded by the fact that it will not be a straight head on fight. Roland and Batman will cover the arena in knock out gas/LSD-Tear Gas, drastically degrading the aim, speed and skill of their opponents. Batman will abuse his stealth in the dark arena to land hits out of nowhere and avoid attacks.

Communication and the ability to adapt on Stalin's team is also minimal. AFAIK Luka is a mute monster and Cass can speak, but she's still a fairly quiet character. In contrast all of my team are team players of some shade, Batman is one of the best strategic minds in the DC multiverse and Roland has a combat AI built into his head that adapts. This is their match to lose.