r/whowouldwin • u/Historical_Ostrich • 28d ago
Battle Which superheroes/villains would lose to a real world SWAT team if they were stripped of plot armor?
The SWAT team will employ real world tactics and resort to deadly force if necessary. Whoever they're facing off against has their standard gear and will resist to the best of their ability, but they don't get any of their standard plot armor.
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u/foulfowl129 28d ago
Hot take? Batman would eventually take some hits by sheer luck in numbers in many portrayals. Smart Batman would actually fear guns and stay far far away and be a predator picking them off like the Arkham games. Batman that eventually jumps in the fray and moves against multiple opponents would eventually just dumb luck take a round.
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u/Reitter3 27d ago
Thats why modern batman iterations uses bulletproof armor. Even a shot close to the head ricocheted.
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u/foulfowl129 27d ago
Even without penetration, the amount of newtons going into a body is gonna make some internal bleeding happen. Plot armor going includes the laws of physics. Major bruising and internal bleeding. Even if it’s totally stopped by armor.
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u/Lower_Complex1465 27d ago
What if there was shock absorbing soft material on the inside of the suit to mitigate and spread out the force a lot better?
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u/Bediavad 26d ago
You need vibranium, anything else will require a huge helmet and armor
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u/Hrydziac 26d ago
Only for more realistic versions like Nolan Batman. Comic and animated Batman straight up just has the stats to be fine.
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u/Mordred19 27d ago
And all that full auto fire that Battinson tanked should have sent lead fragments spraying into vulnerable spots. Like his chin.
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u/TreadingOnYourDreams 24d ago
All that fire Battinson took would have knocked him to the ground and left him dead.
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u/ligma_sucker 24d ago
im pretty sure a guy full auto shoots at him and batman blocks it with his hand at one point. it doesn’t even get moved he just fully tanks it with his palm. it’s obviously made of some super material created by lucius or whatever
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u/saltedduck3737 25d ago
This isn’t even about sheer luck, a group of goons shooting at him would kill him if his armor wasn’t bulletproof
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u/Neutral_Myu 25d ago
A good example of this was in the batman begins game
In that you essentially had to takedown silently enemies with firearms because they could almost kill you with a single volley ( and enemy placement was pretty smart) and then in some cases you usually had the chance to scare them off/disarm by making them so afraid that they drop their weapons and run or get separated for a stealth takedown
Bu facing even a fun wielding dude alone in that game meant that you were either going to die, even at full health or finish him with a fourth of health at best
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u/TreadingOnYourDreams 24d ago
The real hot take.
Batman would be dead.
Peak human can't evade gunfire.
No body armor can withstand multiple shots from a high-caliber weapon.
The love child of Bruce Lee and Mat Frasier isn't getting out of this one alive.
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u/TheGreatPizzaCat 27d ago
I definitely think it depends on the version of the character and circumstances/environment.
Peak performance post-crisis Bruce is ridiculously inhuman, and has enough consistent feats & enhancements to make up for a lack of plot armor imo (seriosuly who decided to let Batman have nth metal).
I do see every on-screen depiction getting killed if they went in batarangs-blazing, honestly faster than a lot of people would want to believe too.
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u/Inevitable_Guide_493 28d ago
Anyone who's a regular human and their primary weapon is a melee weapon. SWAT teams fight as a unit. You might be able to ambush one, but the guy behind him is gonna perforate you.
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u/trenbollocks 28d ago
The likes of Punisher and John Wick would get shredded by a proper tier-1 SOF team in nearly any real-world situation (sans plot armour, obviously).
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u/ScoutsOut389 28d ago
A tier one SOF team is a whole other beast from a municipal SWAT team.
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u/Starlord777175 28d ago
The Hostage Rescue Team is considered equivalent to a tier 1 unit, and they are still considered SWAT
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u/Jewniversal_Remote 27d ago
Considered by who? Lol. Lmao even.
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u/WarlockEngineer 27d ago
FBI HRT is a very well trained and equipped unit, but they should not be equivocated to a city SWAT team.
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u/TheWayoftheWind 27d ago
They should also not be equated to a Tier 1 Special Operations Team. Maybe they are equally skilled and trained in Hostage Rescue on paper, but Tier 1 teams just have so much more experience and a vastly different mission.
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u/Jewniversal_Remote 27d ago
Right. In the most respectful way possible, it's similar to the joke that goes "those who can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, teach PE". The cream of the crop rises and makes it to Tier 1. Those that didn't quite make the cut or have separated from the military go kick down doors for a 3-letter. Those that didn't make the cut to join the military in the first place, go become cops.
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u/dudemanlikedude 28d ago
John Wick has actual armor though. There's a scene in 4 where he removes his jacket and several dozen slugs drop onto the ground.
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u/RogueVector 28d ago
Against the pistol caliber weapons that he faces for most of the series, yes.
I doubt it would hold up against high velocity rifle rounds with armour-piercing tips.
Even if the bulletproof weave is able to stop the actual penetration of a bullet, the brute kinetic concussion of those rounds would break ribs.
"Zero penetration. However, quite painful, I'm afraid."
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u/General_Marcus 28d ago
Armor piercing isn’t needed. A regular .223 will go through soft body armor like butter. Even new, expensive level III armor is much too thick and heavy to make into a normal looking suit.
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u/dudemanlikedude 28d ago
That's a fair point. I guess it's partly a question of if you think Wick's feats are plot armor, or if he really is somewhat supernatural all the way up until the very end of part 4. I'm in the latter camp. The reason he could do the things he did and endure the damage he did was because he wasn't fully human until his revenge was complete. He was the Baba Yaga.
As soon as it was done, he wasn't.
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u/QueequegTheater 27d ago
Just you wait until JW5 has John and Kratos fighting their way out of Hell, boy will you look silly
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u/Timlugia 28d ago edited 27d ago
John Wick never use gas mask, SWAT would almost certainly deploy CS to disorient him before entry.
In fact not just Wick, but also his enemies. My friend comment on easily way to kill high table enforcer is just drop CS on them since they all wear heavy armor but not gas mask.
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u/Business-Ad-5344 28d ago
a swat in my town didn't go into the school when a fake threat was called in. there's rumors that he peed himself and was visibly shaking at the outside door. which, imo, is completely human and understandable.
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u/texanarob 28d ago
Ah yes, plot armour reinforced actual armour.
Bullet proof clothing doesn't turn you into an unstoppable juggernaught. It helps spread the force of a hit into more of a punching impact, but it's also compromised after the first hit.
Besides, SWAT teams wear armour too.
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u/NC_Ion 28d ago
You can actually buy bulletproof dress suits so he would have an advantage.
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u/CosineDanger 28d ago
Varying levels of bulletproof, varying levels of wearability.
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u/Subject_Rub_6697 28d ago
Any character that is "just" a human dies like doesn't matter your skill or superpower a real world swat will just shoot you. And when I say superpower I mean wall level power of course some that can destroy a city with a thought would win.
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u/Toptomcat 28d ago
I mean, it will depend on circumstances and tactics. One average infantryman in a concealed trench a kilometer away on level ground, with an HMG and a pair of binoculars, has a good chance of wiping them all out before they can close, even with good use of SWAT vans and smoke grenades to try to approach.
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u/Bright_Brief4975 28d ago
Tony Stark is 100% just a human, and there is no swat team that is going to take him out while he is in his armor. There are also a lot of others that have no power, but use armor or an artifact, people like Juggernaut, who could take out entire armies.
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u/PremSinha 28d ago
The thing is, a SWAT team would just wait for Tony Stark to get out of the suit, which he does very often.
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u/Toptomcat 28d ago
Unless they have been specifically briefed on the fact that Stark can tap his chest and just summon a full-body suit of armor proof against 120mm cannon rounds within five seconds...and they actually believed that briefing...I'm not sure it would do them much good. That capability is altogether out of the frame of reference of your average cop.
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u/PremSinha 28d ago
That is a good point. I was only thinking of the external suits. This limits the team's options to an ambush that takes less than three seconds, based on the Endgame tower jump. Shooting him in the head will not be easy when he is indoors, but it might be possible elsewhere.
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u/Business-Ad-5344 28d ago
what is a swat.
is that like a team of navy seals.
or a team of average cops eating donuts.
for example, my town has swat. one refused to enter a school when a threat was called in. the call happened to be a hoax.
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u/Echos_123 28d ago
I'm not American but I doubt Swat across different cities across different states and different million people populations are all going to be as bad as your towns Swat, from what I understand the more crime ridden but cities should have even some former military working there.
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u/DeepProspector 28d ago
Yeah, they’re not raiding Malibu when he’s puttering around the lab in a suit or in one at the tower or campus. They’re getting him mid-coitus with Pepper after setting off a local EMP.
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u/woodlark14 28d ago
Early on that might work. Post Iron Man 3, they are detected and Tony is alerted before they even get to the door. An EMP likely isn't good enough because tech can be shielded against them, and most military tech is. They can't cut the power or communications without being detected either.
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u/fish312 28d ago
Or they get an assassin to poison his whisky
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u/PremSinha 28d ago
That is an effective method, but I don't think it comes under the purview of a SWAT team.
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u/Ikarus_Falling 27d ago
dude dies the moment he flies a sharp corner without plot armour physics is all thats needed to pulp him
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u/KathytheQueen 28d ago
Remove plot armor, GCPD SWAT eliminates Batman's entire rouges gallery in every situation. The only ones they'd have trouble with is Heath Ledger's Joker and every version of Bane, as they both have real world military training.
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u/WickardMochi 28d ago
Heath ledger joker? How? Where did it say he has military training?
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u/tosser1579 28d ago
It is a fan theory, there are a few videos explaining it online but some of his behaviors are those that are common among people with military training. The gist is that he was a superb planner for operating requiring lots of people involving violence who well understood the inner mechanisms of government. That sort of thing isn't something you just pick up, so the quickest explanation is that he is former military.
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u/Inevitable_Guide_493 28d ago
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't think military training does him any good in this scenario. He's one guy against an entire team that also has military training.
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u/throwaway321768 27d ago
IMO, it's less about the "point and shoot" aspects of military training and more about the higher-level, tactical/strategic decision-making. The Nolanverse Joker isn't just a guy who can shoot good, he's a guy who knows exactly who to shoot and how to do it for maximum societal disruption. So it's more like a SWAT team going up against a black ops agent with the planning skills of a 4-star general.
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u/WickardMochi 28d ago
I’ve seen that, and as much as I agree, unless we have direct confirmation from the director or writer or whatever, I don’t think we can assume and use it as a feat/evidence
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u/WarlockEngineer 28d ago
Terrorists and organized criminals also have a way of figuring that stuff out. I don't think I'm buying this theory personally.
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u/Coidzor 28d ago
Do SWAT teams have a way to kill Clayface?
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u/Spoon_Elemental 28d ago
Have fun with that piece crawling up your butt and turning into a ball of knives.
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u/Samurai_Banette 28d ago
Batman has plenty of rogues that destroy a swat team.
Killer Corck, Clayface, Gundy, Poison Ivy, anyone from or trained by the league of assassins, Deadshot, Mr. Freeze, a swat team doesnt have any chance against them.
Theres also the fact that no swat team would ever make it to some of the mob bosses. Penguin and Black Mask for example, even if they would lose in a cage fight, take a lot of precautions and the odds of them losing to a team is nearly zero in context.
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u/valdis812 28d ago
I don't know of Crock is bullet proof, and if he is, probably not against higher caliber rounds. I wouldn't put Grundy in the Batman gallery. Ivy would probably be able to take a swat team if they don't know what they're dealing with. Deadshot would be able to take them, and so would Freeze again assuming they don't know what they're dealing with.
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u/ExChampionGaryOak 28d ago
Grundy is kind of a Gotham villain more than a Batman villain. He used to fight golden age green lantern way back in the day but Alan Scott got old while Grundy is a zombie. Now Batman has just kind of inherited Grundy along with Gotham’s other issues
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u/the_one_who_boil 28d ago
wait how would Mr. Freeze win?
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u/Kgb725 28d ago
Humans cannot survive the temperatures he can create
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u/the_one_who_boil 28d ago
I guess if he get time to create an area where everything that enter freeze to death than I can see him winning.
But Isn’t he just a dude with a freeze gun otherwise?
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u/Samurai_Banette 28d ago
Depends on the version really. He's one of those characters who's power fluctuates pretty massively. He leans more towards the Poison Ivy power level than mob boss though.
In Under the Red Hood for example, he casually walked through an ambush Red Hood set with that had four fully automatic turrets just unloading into him. He then had explosives strapped to his helmet and they just barely cracked it. I don't think anything a swat team would use could really slow him down unless GPD has a rocket launcher on hand.
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u/Hrydziac 28d ago edited 26d ago
I think this depends what you consider plot armor. Even the "regular human" superheros and villians in DC are genuinely significantly faster/stronger than any real world human could be. I think most of them could probably kill a swat team unless they like spawn right outside the room their in and fill it with bullets.
Clayface and I think Killer Croc are straight up bullet proof, so a real world SWAT team gets slaughtered there.
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u/WildcatPlumber 28d ago
Yeah but Police aren't afraid to use explosives in certain situations.
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u/Kgb725 28d ago
But theyd need to have those on hand and clay face would probably reform
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u/nicholasktu 28d ago
Even then military trained people still die to bullets. And Bane would take exactly one 5.56 in the face and he's done.
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u/bensmelliott 28d ago
I don't know whether you're right or whether you're wrong but I do know that it is crazy that people are still typing "rouge" in the year 2025
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u/Pandeism 28d ago
Heath Ledger's Joker would 100% trick the SWAT team into shooting up a bunch of civilians dressed as gangsters.
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u/NathanialRominoDrake 27d ago edited 27d ago
Remove plot armor, GCPD SWAT eliminates Batman's entire rouges gallery in every situation.
It's usually Batman who has the plot armor, not so much his rouges gallary barring exceptions like Joker, and there are countless of villains in his rouges gallery that would eat any SWAT team for breakfast, what do you think how Batgirl Cassandra Cain for example gets challenged by some of them?
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u/harbingerofpie 27d ago
Rouge refers to make-up as in Moulin Rouge. Voulez-vous coucher avec moi, yo.
Rogue is the word you’re looking for.
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u/Themodsarecuntz 28d ago
Anyone without super powers is toast.
If you are a "peak human" youre done.
If you do not use guns as well you aren't even going to barricade effectively. If you have a gun you can probably hole up somewhere until they inevitably get to you.
Punisher is going to get trapped somewhere, barricaded in, and at some point take the round that kills him.
Batman is getting shot by a guy with night vision goggles.
Daredevil is getting flashbanged and shot.
Street level humans are just done.
All that's left are heroes that cant be stopped by ballistics.
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u/PalpitationFine 27d ago
I wouldn't flash daredevil, just bang him
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u/Notonfoodstamps 28d ago
Pretty much any non-meta human street-tier villain.
Once you start getting to characters that eat small/medium arm rounds a real life SWAT team gets folded like wet tissue as those people usually have superhuman strength to go with said durability.
There’d be jack shit a SWAT team can do if they stumble into Killer Croc in a sewer system sans pray for a swift death.
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u/Ikacprzak 28d ago
Anyone note bulletproof
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u/Toptomcat 28d ago edited 28d ago
Taylor Hebert (Worm) is physically a squishy unpowered human, but her ability to see through the eyes of every insect within ~400 meters essentially amounts to local omniscience, and her ability to completely control them makes for essentially unlimited concealment as well as a kind of offense that makes bulletproof vests completely irrelevant.
Similarly, Professor X (X-Men) would mind-control all of them from a mile away, Kouzaku Mitori (Raildex) can remote-control a bulletproof minion from far enough away to be safe, a Potterverse or D&D wizard could invisibly fuck them up half a dozen ways, Paul Atredes (Dune) could precognition their way through the entire thing without a scratch, a Jedi (Star Wars) could do the same thing with added telekinesis and laser-swording people to death, Fujiwara no Mokou (Touhou Project) would scream and fall down and bleed to death and then explode into flame and stand right back up, in an urban area Toph Beifong (Avatar: The Last Airbender) could sense them coming through a wall via the sound of their footsteps on the street and then just encase them in concrete, a Predator (duh) could use their active camouflage to pick them off one by one unseen...there are lots of non-bulletproof characters with esoteric, long-ranged, stealth-oriented or informational powers who could beat a SWAT team through means other than 'charge at them mindlessly from thirty meters away across an open field.'
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u/RagingNudist 28d ago
Except a swat team beating taylor isnt actually that crazy, especially if they know her ability. Sniper. Alternatively, i dont believe she has control while asleep, they do what her last command was(alexandria), run her down at midnight.
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u/Lemerney2 28d ago
I guess it depends on how much this scenario relies on typical behaviour in the story. Since a SWAT team would absolutely beat Taylor if she was sleeping, but in story, she has a secret identity and a hidden hideout meaning that's unlikely, and Tattletale to bribe people off from sending those threats after her, or at least warn Skitter they're coming. They could probably win eventually if she didn't have backup from the Undersiders though
That being said, my answer to the question would be Jack Slash Given he was taken out by a kitted up SWAT team in story
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u/ViolinistPleasant982 27d ago
I mean in an Urban environment they can't get a sniper that could shoot her and be outside her range baring shit like main street new york and what not. Her orders do also remain active well unconscious, ie the killing of Tag and Alexanderia, and her powers will subconsciously run repeated tasks, setting alert trip wires and weaving usable silk cord again from the aforementioned murders, so I wouldn't be suprised if she can, like a light sleeper, be woken up by her bug senses by things like trip wires. There best shot is leading her somewhere where they can get a sniper in a helicopter to take her out but that also assumes she isn't hiding in her bugs like she pulls during her warlord era stuff.
I think a major cities force could do it but I also think a lot of people are gonna die in the process.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 28d ago
I mean Wonder Woman, One Piece top tiers like Roger and plenty others are not bulletproof, but I would not say they would lose to a SWAT team due to their other powers.
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u/Obsessively_Average 28d ago
Wonderwoman is most definitely bulletproof in most iterations and 100% in any of the recent ones
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u/BlockAffectionate413 28d ago edited 28d ago
I did not check her recent apperances but I am pretty sure post crisis was not. But she is still too fast and powerful for SWAT to be any threat to her. That said was she not shot by sniper in 2017 in volume 5 issue 19? Here?
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u/elfonzi37 28d ago
Roger got future sight and armanent haki, he is bulletproof.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 28d ago
With haki yes, Dr Strange is bulletproof too with his shields, but I am talking about just body, he is not bulletproof in sense of Kaido whose body is naturally enormously durable even without any haki. Which is what I thought guy above meant by not bulletproof.
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u/1Meter_long 28d ago
Joker, Captain Murica, Punisher.
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u/Steven_Hunyady 28d ago
Kind of want to doubt Cap. The man is superhuman and barely needs to eat or sleep, and has his shield. I think if he wanted to go into hiding he could keep himself from getting merc'd, but other than hiding there isn't much else he could do.
Punisher gets taken down by the FBI before SWAT ever steps in. The man is completely, and obviously unhinged.
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u/RMidnight 28d ago
This is a good question.
Captain America's a super soldier which makes him stronger and faster than his opponents.
It really boils down whether they can shoot him or not. If the bullets don't penetrate a suit, then he's only vulnerable on the lower face and eyes.
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u/DatShantBeFalco 28d ago
Cap can tank a fair amount of bullet shots and keep on going as long as it's not like in the face
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u/valdis812 28d ago
Frank might be able to take down a SWAT team. There was a run a while back when he had to take on a group of slavers who were Bosnian war vets. He managed to take them, but he had to take them one or two at a time.
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u/front-wipers-unite 28d ago
"Bosnian war vets" so... A shop keeper or farmer with an AK basically. Being a vet of the Bosnian war doesn't make you some kind of expert.
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u/1Meter_long 28d ago
Unless Cap's suit is bulletproof he should die. If Swat team is going there with intention to kill, they could manage to do it. Cap has fair odds of surviving, but he can't dodge bullets. It only takes one sniper to end him. Daredevil has better odds without plot armor, even though i'd claim Cap is superior. He can actually hear trigger pulls and has 180 range of awareness. He can tell if someone is behind corners or behind doors.
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u/Steven_Hunyady 28d ago
I'd say this depends on entirely if Cap knows he's being hunted or not. If he's unaware, SWAT takes this a million miles from Sunday.
If he is aware, and not being a moron waiting around in a crowded city where every rooftop could house a sniper, I'd say he could escape.
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u/FallOutFan01 27d ago
Also paging the following users u/RMidnight, u/Kgb725, u/DatShantBeFalco just for fun and purposes of discussion.
Steve after the battle of new york underwent modern combat training and tactical training.
Not confirmed but probably true.
But he probably trained at SHIELD’s campus academy of operations.
It's where agents go to get field training/weapon certification, training to become field agents, tactical agents like STRIKE or SHIELD specialists…..think Clint Barton, Black Widow.
We don't know what Steve’s suit is technically comprised of.
But scaling and comparison it is probably like Mike Peterson’s suit but with a plate carrier since Steve took an chitauri energy blast to the chest in AVENGERS one.
So probably silicon carbide, titanium carbide.
”It's not every day that Agents Fitz and Simmons get access to an individual with actual powers, so when the time came to outfit Mike Peterson, they pulled out all the stops. Made of a polymer blend with ten layers of treated composite materials, this sleek suit serves functions both tactical and diagnostic, monitoring vitals and providing state-of-the-art ballistic protection for agents, who, to no one's surprise, often find themselves in sticky situations." -Agent Coulson to Agent Ward[src]”
If I were to guess material composition, it’s actually probably similar but better to the protective suits made for Wilson Fisk and Leland Owlsley by Melvin Potter.
”What's this coated with?" "Polyethylene, glycol, silicate." ―Leland Owlsley and Melvin Potter[src]”
Polyethylene, glycol, silicate actually tells us specifically what those suits were and actually tells about its capabilities…..this stuff is real and interesting.
In civil war in Laos Steve gets hurled up by Wanda into the bio laboratory reception building and it’s filled with some kind noxious chemical gas.
Because one of the terrorist’s/goons working for Rumlow/Cross bones is wearing an NBC respirator mask.
Steve grabs the guy takes the mask off and the guy immediately goes limp.
So Steve might very well be immune or resistant to things like tear gas.
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u/siestarrific 28d ago
Cap would murder a SWAT team. He still has powers, the shield, and can think strategically.
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u/8dev8 28d ago
Cap is explicitly able to dodge bullets.
Like this isn’t a plot armor thing he’s just that good.
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u/1Meter_long 28d ago
12 man team spread out with 15 meter distance, pointing guns at him and firing simultaneously? Or standard room in hotel firing from door way from short distance?
I'd say that Swat team has fair chance of killing him but they're not assasins, so they first give commands, put on cuffs, then Cap breaks those cuffs and beats shit out of them. If they however went in with intention to kill, i'd say Cap could actually die.
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u/8dev8 28d ago
It definitely depends on location and the situation. But he has stopped firing squads before.
Assuming it’s not dropping him in front of a readied team unprepared I’d give him good odds, he’s fast enough trying to aim at him when he’s avoiding is difficult even without aim dodging, or active dodging.
And once he closes they kinda, fold instantly, he can shove his shield through stuff much tougher then swat armor.
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u/Nihlus11 28d ago edited 28d ago
Literally 80-90% of MCU heroes. Captain America, Moon Knight, Spider-Man, Scarlet Witch, Shang Chi, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Falcon, all the Thunderbolts, every Wakandan who doesn't have a Black Panther suit, every Asgardian who isn't part of the royal family, all the Guardians (except Drax), all the Defenders (even Luke is OHKO'd by a shotgun), the list goes on. None of them are bulletproof and they are all constantly being hit by things that are much easier to avoid than bullets fired by a coordinated team.
They only don't die every time someone with a gun is present because of a combination of favorable set-ups (e.g. they have surprise and back-up), their enemies textually not wanting them dead, and MCU goons being invariably terrible. Or, from another perspective, very generous and careful. I'm impressed by the discipline of those German policemen. With several seconds to react and their guns trained on their target, they take special care to both wait several more seconds as their enemies run into their gun barrles and then turn and place every bullet they fire right into Bucky and Steve's vibranium shields, even when said shields cover a minuscule portion of their silhouette. I especially appreciate how Mysterio, despite having many clean shots at Peter throughout the entire movie, always opened up with a non lethal strike like when he had his gun-armed drone blast Peter in the face with a concussive blast.
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u/sleeper_shark 28d ago
Sorry Spider-Man ?
The dude who has a 6th sense for danger, who can literally dodge bullets with his eyes closed, who can easily lift and throw cars…
Scarlet Witch ?
The reality warper ? The one who in the comics could solo the avengers…?
Like in your other comment you’re talking about dudes like Mysterio almost landing hits on Spiderman but I think you’ve got the plot armor backwards. It’s Mysterio who had the plot armor there lol.
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u/Kgb725 28d ago
We literally seen Spidey close his eyes and dodge hundreds if not thousands of bullets. Wanda has too much hax to ever be taken out by them
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u/Nihlus11 28d ago edited 28d ago
We literally seen Spidey close his eyes and dodge hundreds if not thousands of bullets
We see him close his eyes and rejoice as drones miss him at point-blank range while he moves no faster than he does in any other scene.
Wanda has too much hax to ever be taken out by them
She gets knocked around all the time with non-lethal weapons like War Machine's sonic cannon and Bruce's tackle. Hawkeye solo'd her with a taser.
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u/Kgb725 28d ago
He scales to the other 2 movie Spider-man characters so we know hes superfast even if its not presented as a blur
Youre saying that like she didnt get stronger since then. If strange couldve subdued her with a taser he wouldve
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u/Nihlus11 28d ago
He scales to
I'm gonna take that as a concession that his feats don't measure up.
One of those Spider-Men was canonically beaten by a SWAT team that didn't want to kill him, by the way. The other got tossed around and tagged a bunch by a pro wrestler.
so we know hes superfast
We can literally see with our eyes that this isn't true.
If strange couldve subdued her with a taser he wouldve
Strange and co aren't particularly competent combatants. News at 11. He's another character who'd be screwed if MCU goons both used guns and went for the kill.
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u/Surrotten 27d ago
Dude you cannot be serious about Scarlett Witch.. did you forget the scene where she escaped the mirror dimension or what ever it was
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u/ManeatingRaptora 27d ago
Couldn't Wandavision and later era Scarlet Witch just have a reality warp radius several miles wide?
Anyone outside has no line of sight, and anyone or thing who goes inside gets turned into whatever she wants.
WAY out of the league of a SWAT team, their only chance would be if they caught her totally unawares, and if they give her even a second it's over.
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u/Burgess-Shale 28d ago
We can start off by saying any superhero who is just some guy, even with impressive gadgets, is cooked. Batman, punisher, Hawkeye, deadshot, Captain Boomerang, all cooked. I'd add to this characters that are just barely superhuman or have superhuman skills: kingpin, daredevil, iron fist, bullseye, taskmaster, captain america. No chance! There are limits to how much dodging one can do against multiple trained armed opponents working in tandem. I'm sure they could take a few swat guys out but I don't see them surviving a full raid.
I'm gonna add to the cooked pile some characters who I think of as "gun tier", characters with powers that don't offer any serious protection from firearms and are basically just a unique weapons: cyclops is my main archetype for this. He's got a good weapon but he's not bulletproof and he's susceptible to being outnumbered. Many other X-Men would also fall into this category: angel, pyro, rogue, gambit, mystique, beast, havok, would all fall to conventional weaponry and tactics, albeit probably with a lot of casualties. (Please let me know if I'm wrong, I know some of the X-Men have variable ass powers.
Also in this category are MOST of the heroes and villains from my hero academia, notable exceptions being some of the strength types who can tank conventional attacks and higher tier elemental attackers who could just clear a battlefield. Tape elbows guy? Froppy? Uravity? Honestly I'm surprised how much of combat is dominated by supers in MHA given how not bulletproof they all seem.
Similar to this are characters with special high tech weaponry or tools that give them unusual combat capacity but don't really protect them from conventional weaponry: captain cold, mirror master, Falcon, gonna go ahead and add ant man to this list. I think their arsenals, however fantastical, aren't actually a great deal stronger than multiple enemies with modern guns and armor
Characters that I think are fun edge cases, in ascending order of how well I think they'd do: -nightcrawler: he has so much maneuverability that I can imagine him avoiding and taking out swat guys one at a time, but one slip up means death -deadpool/sabretooth: regeneration, but can still take damage. I think sustained shots to the head and limbs could actually weaken him enough to be put into restraints of some sort. Since his skull isn't bulletproof, shots to the head would actually scramble his brain and stun them. Wolverines adamantium skeleton and claws I think would carry him to the bloody finish -spiderman: insanely strong nimble, but not bulletproof. His Spidey sense means that he's always got a bit of plot armor, but is he really faster than a bullet? How about hundreds of bullets from different directions all at once? I personally think spiderman could take this fight but the "without plot armor" makes me wonder, cuz frankly Spidey gets a Looot of plot armor in movies and comics alike.
Fun prompt!
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u/8dev8 28d ago
I’d argue being fast enough to dodge bullets gives you a good fighting chance, since once they close to hand to hand there’s not really much shooting going on.
But antman? They are gonna shoot the ant or smaller sized man running and jumping around?
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u/Kiyohara 27d ago
In fairness to MHA, it is set in Japan where guns are very rare to start with. I'm willing to bet the US group of heroes either has a high percentage of high durability/invulnerable types or else they wear more body armor than you do in Japan.
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u/Gavinus1000 28d ago
Skitter under certain conditions.
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u/001DeafeningEcho 28d ago
Very specific circumstances. Pretty sure that SWAT armor isn’t airtight (not that it matters when a mat of bugs covering the visor blocks their vision anyways) and Skitter’s armor is at least bullet resistant. If they start close enough and have a good LOS (or Skitter doesn’t have many bugs) sure, they’ll win, but give Skitter a swarm and they’ll be too blind to shoot her.
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u/ViolinistPleasant982 27d ago
I think a major city's police could do it but I think no matter the senerio there is gonna be a lot of dead cops.
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u/dhusk 27d ago
Most of these replies basically swap the plot armor from the character onto the SWAT team.
A LOT can go wrong with a SWAT deployment, and they'd be just as fallible as the character here. If the SWAT team can get complete surprise, then sure, it's easily doable by them in many cases. But otherwise taking out a lot of the characters mentioned is going to be a lot harder than people are assuming.
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u/Doomcall 26d ago
Thank you, specially with the ones with extended military and guerilla training like black widow and Punisher. Swat aint kicking any doors in a place that can be booby trapped all over. A random guy with a gun can sometimes hold off teams for hours and end up in tragedy, imagine one of those.
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u/UNITICYBER 27d ago
Y'all are gonna be mad at me for saying this, but Batman, nearly the entire Batfamily and almost his entire rogues gallery, would be manhandled by a SWAT team. Especially if they just bring a normal load out.
Even with Batman having such insane training and equipment, he is still outgunned and outnumbered, unless he goes to the Batcave for one of his special armors.
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u/business__trooper 25d ago
I see what ur saying but only if batman goes on and attacks them. batman will be smart enough to use predator tactics and pick them off one by one. the rest of the bat family is cooked tho
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u/InspectorBoat 27d ago
the replies saying spider-man are delusional. are we talking about the guy who charged a corridor of stark gun drones with his eyes closed and came out completely unscathed? who took a bullet train to the face, stayed conscious long enough to board said train, and walked it off a day later? who held together an entire ferry split in half? that spider-man?
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u/Wonderful_Discount59 26d ago
Don't know if they technically count as super heroes, but: most Jedi.
Even ignoring the idea that lighsabers can't deflect bullets (which IMO is inacurate for how lightsabers are actually portrayed), we know that Jedi canonically can be overwhelmed by mass gunfire (see: Genesis arena). And a SWAT team going full-auto is going to be more overwhelming than a squad of battle-droids or Jango Fett with a blaster pistol.
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u/Ok_Push2550 28d ago
Hawkeye.
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u/Yvaelle 28d ago
Wins easily. His super human hearing senses them stacking up to breach, then a dozen arrows puncture through the walls killing them all with headshots.
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u/Crimson_Marksman 28d ago
Well, Kiryu Kazuma is supposed to be only human. He gets shot and it's enough to take him down in a cutscene.
But there are some inconsistencies like how he gets beaten, shot and proceeds to fight at full strength a time limit. That cutscene where he pushes someone through a wall down two floors. That cutscene where he punches a Bengal tiger so hard it flies backward. And that cutscene where he fights a hundred men with melee weapons, shotguns and rocket launchers.
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u/Somerandom1922 28d ago
Ok, this is less about plot armour and more about physics, but authors tend to conflate any sort of "bulletproof" as being equal.
E.g. someone who can resist a shot from a handgun is also immune to any sort of gun.
But there are a LOT of characters who have shown to to invulnerable to 9mm but we have no clue if they could survive even a small rifle round.
Similarly with explosions. Character can survive a gasoline explosion so it's assumed they could survive a high-ex detonation to the face.
Also, that being said, while I think he might still beat a swat team, Spiderman without plot armour stand a pretty high chance of catching some shrapnel or just getting unlucky. He goes from absolutely crushing a Swat team in universe, to maybe a 20% chance of catching a stray without plot armour.
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u/Kiyohara 27d ago
Pretty much every single one of Batman's Rogue's Gallery that isn't immortal or immune to gunfire. Even someone like Mr Freeze are going down when a sniper cracks his environment suit from a hundred yards or so.
I'm also going to include a lot of the Hell's Kitchen folks that Daredevil and Punisher regularly go against. Once the SWAT team gets the no knock warrant for someone like Kingpin or Bullseye, they're going down hard.
And keep in mind that it won't be a single team going after them, but several teams, possibly backed up by FBI task forces as well due to their crimes. There will be a level of equipment that they've never seen before: armored cars, snipers, helicopters, and all manner of modern military equipment.
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u/smexyrexytitan 27d ago
Most mutants...especially from the movies. If the scene in X2 happened but with a real SWAT team and there was no way to escape the mansion everyone would've been captured or killed, except for Wolverine. Cyclops by himself and Jean by herself (again, in the movies, no Phoenix) would probably get taken down.
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u/Frankfusion 27d ago
Kite man would never make it past 1 minute. I don't even think he'd be able to fly away.
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u/EvidenceHuman5877 28d ago
So alot of characters, that arent 1. Inherently bulletproof or 2. Able to react to the sound of a gunshot or 3. Insane healing factor that outheals bullets. Think Scarlet Witch. Shes not inherently bulletproof to my understanding, but if she could hear the shot, she might be able to react fast enough.
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u/hideki101 28d ago
Problem there; bullets are supersonic. You'd get hit before the sound of the gunshot reaches you.
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u/Psigun 28d ago
Most street level superheroes. Daredevil, Punisher, Spider-Man, Batman... Dead, dead, dead, dead.
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u/diadem 28d ago
Spider-Man may survive. The others are toast.
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u/Psigun 28d ago
You're right. Spider-Man does have a chance. He's also borderline street-level. The perennial underdog that skirts being a major power and minor power. Part of why he's so beloved I think.
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u/Spoon_Elemental 28d ago
Spider-Man is a bullet timer with a built in alarm system to warn him about said bullets. He doesn't need plot armor to survive the police, and he's smart and skilled enough to just hide from them and pick them off if shit really hits the fan.
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u/Mr_Lobster 28d ago
He can travel very quickly too, police cruisers would be hard pressed to keep up with him swinging to safety. Then if his secret identity is intact he can blend into the crowd. He also is a genius, maybe not on the toppest tier of Marvel, but he'll be able to formulate a decent strategy for dealing with police level threats.
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u/Doomcall 26d ago
He also moves very fast and very erratic. You ain't getting a hit in on purpose unless you are an equally insane marksman. Its hard enough and scary enough to hit a chargin boar or other wild animal, imagine that in three dimensions.
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u/ImperialVenus 28d ago
Every street tier character ever. Anybody who isn’t either bulletproof or has super speed isn’t going to make it. To be guaranteed to win, the character would have to be at least building level with supersonic reactions. He would need to be building level, so the SWAT Team can’t just tackle him, and he’d have to have super speed to dodge their weapons.
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u/AlexFerrana 28d ago
John Wick, Punisher, Nightwing, Batman, Captain America, Black Widow, Robin, etc.
A lot of so-called street level characters that aren't bulletproof or has no serious healing factor (like Wolverine or Deadpool) fits that prompt.
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u/nateacvn 27d ago
Motherfucking Johan Liebert, even normal human could beat that overhyped fucker up
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u/ViolinistPleasant982 27d ago
Jack slash is an obvious answer since there would be no parahumans involved and he's alone. Like I feel he maybe able to kill a couple, maybe even half, before they learn about the blade projection but a slug or rifle rounds remove his head.
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u/Jake0024 27d ago
Basically anyone whose power level is "peak/enhanced human" so people like Captain America, Batman, etc but especially ones like Black Widow or Punisher who don't have some kind of magic suit of armor to stop bullets
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u/Nihlus11 27d ago
By the same token as my last comment, thinking about it more, basically 80-90% of MCU villains for the same reason as the heroes. Maybe slightly more as they're even more likely to receive plot armor until the very end and less likely to have any way of even mitigating the risk of bullets. I remember thinking how funny it was in Iron Man 2 that Whiplash's entire decades-long revenge plan depended on no one in that race track shooting him with a handgun, or that the allegedly deadly military drones he hijacked would run into melee range instead of using BVR missiles while themselves being vulnerable to basic assault rifles. And that Hela was really lucky that her army died in Asgard to save them the embarrassment of getting gunned down by the local gun club in the first Tex-Ass town she tries to take.
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u/Hollow-Official 27d ago
The Punisher would probably be screwed. Anyone human-adjacent isn’t dealing with 10-20 odd SWAT officers, you’d need some degree of super human powers. That being said understand how SWAT works; what you’re envisioning is a Supe barricaded in a room that SWAT are preparing to breach, which isn’t necessarily something the Punisher is going to wait around for, and escaping a drag net is a much surer bet than trying to fight so if escape is a viable option the odds get better for the Supe.
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u/AlexanderLynx 27d ago
I feel a lot of characters from My Hero Academia would fall into this category, Specially the ones whose quirk doesn't explicitly give them upgraded resistance/strength
Many wouldn't be able to survive being shot with a gun, Its just that the mangaka adores giving plot armor to the characters xD
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u/aslfingerspell 26d ago
Captain America.
A vibranium shield is cool, but it doesn't have complete coverage, and one of his primary methods of attack literally throws the shield as a slower projectile than a gun.
A professional marksman can pull the trigger in a moment when he throws it, or if he holds it multiple attackers can fire from different angles.
Even comic Captain America was killed by a sniper at one point.
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u/mbergman42 28d ago
I’m not liking Condiment King’s chances here, guys.