Which superheroes/villains would lose to a real world SWAT team if they were stripped of plot armor?

[u/Historical_Ostrich]

The SWAT team will employ real world tactics and resort to deadly force if necessary. Whoever they're facing off against has their standard gear and will resist to the best of their ability, but they don't get any of their standard plot armor.

[u/htov74]

I wouldn't exactly say the ability for a literal superhuman to dodge bullets is plot armor.

[u/Key-Tie2214 → u/htov74]

Canonically, he can only bench around 1100 lbs and his running speed is at most 60 mph. Nothing about Captain America is enough to dodge something that is over 20x his running speed.

There is also nothing above his skin that can stop bullets.

His ability to dodge bullets is quite literally plot armor.

Its in the same vein of Flash getting tripped by ice despite running at near lightspeed. Its plot armor because otherwise it'd be boring.

[u/htov74 → u/Key-Tie2214]

It's so crazy to me that in 2025 people are still using the 1,100 pound bench, 60 mph running speed, and Marvel Handbook statements for superheroes. You take these feats that happen ONE time, and ignore every other feat throughout his 70+ years of publication of dodging bullets, running faster than 60 mph, and literally kicking people into busses so hard that they dent and break the frames (minimum 87,000 pounds of force required for this btw). Like, I have no idea why you people think one showing in a specific stat outranks DECADES of other showings. Because if you really wanna get into an argument about CONSISTENCY of his feats, I will win that hands down. And consistency is what determines the level of strength for a character, not one or two feats that would either put them much higher or much lower than whatever level of consistency has been established over (and I can not stress this enough) tens of THOUSANDS of appearances over decades worth of comic books. Also you have no idea what plot armor is. Plot armor is a literary device that allows a character to survive or perform in ways they otherwise couldn't purely to advance the plot. All of the times Cap dodges bullets is not plot armor, because again he displays the ability to perform at this level CONSISTENTLY. Plot armor would be the fact that bad guys routinely shoot at his shield instead of his legs. Because that's not what would happen in real life. So please, go ahead and have this argument about what Cap and Bucky's CONSISTENT levels of strength are. And bring something more than one bench press feat and one sprinting feat from the 60s, which was a time of notoriously inconsistent writing in all fiction.

[u/Key-Tie2214 → u/htov74]

People use the bench and running speed because they are official stats that trump any and all fan-devised calculations.

They established the his limits, and then decided "This would be really cool, lets make him do it." That is plot. The fact that you think that somehow decades of writers making him outperform his limits because they want an interesting story makes it his base mark when in the DECADES of other showings and TENS OF THOUSANDS of comics showing such a wide varying of his strength would somehow get it through your thick skull. His strength is INCONSISTENT. It varies simply because the authors want a good story, which is why people will always use OFFICIAL CANONICAL FACTS over FAN-DERIVED CALCULATIONS.

You can throw a 1000 feats where he is super strong and I'll be able to throw a 1000 feats where he is a limp noodle. Its because, I can not stress this enough, his strength is INCONSISTENT because the authors want a FUN and COOL STORY.

I also do know what plot armor, because again, going by his canonical, offficial stats, he should not be able to survive a hail of bullets and dodge them, yet he does and survives, which is the literal definition, which you fucking say.

There are multiple scenarios where he gets defeated by normal humans who are masters of martial arts. If he were really as strong as you think, that wouldn't happen.

[u/htov74 → u/Key-Tie2214]

They're actually not "official" stats. They're stats given by INDIVIDUAL feats of achievement, the same as literally shoulder pressing cars (which are on average over 4 times heavier than the 1,100 pounds he benched ONE time). Why is either more "official" than the other? It's not a fan calculation, it's literally what happened on panel.

They did not "establish his limits". Because Captain America's fest that you are referring to happened in a comic book that came out in the 90s. Literally over 50 years and 400 issues after his first ever appeareance. And you know some of the things he was doing in those comics that are heavier than benching 1,100 pounds and faster than running at 60 mph? Lifting cars over his shoulders, resisting motorcycles literally attempting to drive at full speed with restraints tied to his limbs and they didn't get torn off, ripping the arms off of robots that were just not damaged by rockets, literally outrunning bullets and missles, as well as catching up to speeding cars and humvees (both going at top speed which is well above 60 mph) and SO many more I could name. These are all things that happened before the bench press and sprint feats YOU are relying so heavily on. So no, they didn't "set his limits and then say this is cool let's make him do it". He had been doing these things WELL beforehand, and then some writers decided to portray him differently on an individual occasion. Your own opinion falls apart under your logic, and it tells me that you don't even know what you're talking about because you're trying to imply that these specific feats happened before he did anything more impressive. That is literally incorrect. It's so funny you try to insult me with the "thick skull" comment, but you're the one who's straight up incorrect. I told you, if you wanna argue consistency we can, all you've done is just say there's all these other showings. Yes, comics are inconsistent. Hence why you can't take one writer's depiction as gospel, you go by what is consistent among MULTIPLE showings. Like, the 1,100 bench and 60 mph speed was never officially announced or stated as what his limits are. It was one writer's interpretation of the character. So since you wanna talk about all these showings, why don't you do what I said and start oisting off feats of him not being able to dodge bullets or lift above 1,100 pounds? Like I said I'll list far more that shows what he CAN do, and whoever actually can list more (include issue numbers too while you're at it since you know everything) will have the mote consistent showings. Shouldn't be that hard since you said there are thousands of showings in your favor right?

You say you can give me 1,000 showings of him being a "limp noodle", so why are you just yapping about it instead of doing it? Go ahead, and again make sure to include issue numbers so it can be fact checked.

I find it so funny that you say there are multiple instances of him getting defeated by normal humans who are masters of martial arts. As if we haven't seen MANY examples of people beating others FAR above their weight class because they were better fighters. Also I'll let you in on a little secret: the "normal human" heros in Marvel are also incredibly strong and fast. Because it's FICTION. So again, PLEASE get into this comparison of feats with me so I can show you what's more consistent.