r/whowouldwin • u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ • Dec 20 '17

Special [Death Battle]Sephiroth vs Vergil

Vergil Respect Thread by me

Sephiroth Respect Thread by /u/ShadowSphere

Round 1: Regular Versions

Round 2: Nelo Angelo vs Whatever Peak Sephiroth is.

As per rules of Death Battle, they're both going for the kill

https://youtu.be/8sdzSDKquiY

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u/Cleverly_Clearly ​ Dec 23 '17

And why bring up the comic? Thats has nothing to do with the Manga which takes place prior to DMC3.

He brought up the comic first. You're the one who mentioned the manga in the first place. His whole original point was that the entire comic was noncanon, then you said "the same things are in the manga", and then he said that doesn't change the fact that the comic is non-canon and then you went "why are you talking about the comic" even though that was his main point.

Then why bother asking?

He's trying to be nice when asking you to back up a claim, which you haven't provided scans for.

We have already had this discussion and its abundantly clear that we aren't going to come to an agreement.

It really sounds like you don't have a response to this argument.

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u/KevinLee487 ​ Dec 23 '17

His whole original point was that the entire comic was noncanon, then you said "the same things are in the manga"

No, I said that scene he was talking about was in the manga, not the comic.

He's trying to be nice when asking you to back up a claim, which you haven't provided scans for.

Do....do you even read? My "claim" was made by Capcom in a video. How can I scan that?

It really sounds like you don't have a response to this argument.

I already explained it to him before.

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u/Cleverly_Clearly ​ Dec 23 '17

No, I said that scene he was talking about was in the manga, not the comic.

But Death Battle only mentioned the comic version of that scene, not the manga version of that scene.

Do....do you even read? My "claim" was made by Capcom in a video. How can I scan that?

Link the video.

I already explained it to him before.

There are other people reading who might be interested in your explanation. From an outsider perspective it seems like he's right and you can't come up with a valid proof that he's wrong.

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u/KevinLee487 ​ Dec 23 '17

But Death Battle only mentioned the comic version of that scene, not the manga version of that scene.

The scene where Vergil is impaled with Yamato isnt in the comic

Link the video

https://youtu.be/BkHOaReOE0o

There you go. All 40 minutes of it.

From an outsider perspective it seems like he's right and you can't come up with a valid proof that he's wrong.

In Vergils RT, he claimed that the opening scene was from Ladys POV because Dante must have told her about it. I called him on it since in the intro, she straight up says Arkham told her about Sparda and she wasnt event present in Mission 7 so she cant possibly narrate that fight. Which he then proceeded to ignore and just repeat himself about retconning....within the same game. Like...really dude?

I also explained how stupid it would be to use the same cutscene twice and the cutscene in Mission 7 is much slower because its from the perspective of Dante and Vergil who can actually perceive what is happening at those kinds of speeds. The intro shows a portion of the fight, Mission 7 tells the story behind it.

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u/Cleverly_Clearly ​ Dec 23 '17

she cant possibly narrate that fight.

It was her voice.

I also explained how stupid it would be to use the same cutscene twice

This is the same game that has Dante surfing on a rocket. If we're using "this can't happen because it's stupid" as an excuse, then we're suddenly playing by a whole different set of rules. And "this can't happen because it's stupid" has never been an acceptable argument on WWW anyway.

the cutscene in Mission 7 is much slower because its from the perspective of Dante and Vergil who can actually perceive what is happening at those kinds of speeds.

But we don't see the raindrops frozen while we're in their perspective, so why would them having faster perceptions make the raindrops seem faster? Wouldn't the raindrops be even slower then?

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u/KevinLee487 ​ Dec 23 '17 edited Dec 23 '17

It was her voice

And?

This is the same game that has Dante surfing on a rocket. If we're using "this can't happen because it's stupid" as an excuse, then we're suddenly playing by a whole different set of rules. And "this can't happen because it's stupid" has never been an acceptable argument on WWW anyway.

That is a whole other discussion.

But we don't see the raindrops frozen while we're in their perspective, so why would them having faster perceptions make the raindrops seem faster? Wouldn't the raindrops be even slower then?

You would figure, but we barely see any rain during the Mission 7 cutscene.

At the end if the day, its a pre-rendered cutscene on weak hardware. Perhaps they ran into technical issues? Everything is rendered in much greater detail during Mission 7. I cant tell you for sure.

Just for giggles, lets do it this way. When Dante fires his gun at Vergil, time is slowed. A raindrop falls at 20mph. A .45 from a 1911(which Dantes guns are based off) travels at 595mph which is 29.75x faster than the raindrop. Despite this slow down, Vergil is still creating after images with Yamato when he catches all 6 bullets.

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u/Cleverly_Clearly ​ Dec 23 '17 edited Dec 23 '17

And?

And I don't know, if I heard Dante's voice during that cutscene I would assume it was Dante recounting the events. If I heard Vergil's voice I would assume it was Vergil recounting the events. Occam's razor, if you hear the voice of Lady then it's probably from Lady's perspective and not some omniscient narrator who stole Lady's voice.

At the end if the day, its a pre-rendered cutscene on weak hardware. Perhaps they ran into technical issues?

So your argument is "they would have done this, but they didn't have the technology to depict it"? You could extrapolate anything from that. I could say they would have had Vergil turn into a giant monster and had Dante crawl up his back like in God of War but they didn't have the technology to depict it. Plus, if they really wanted to have that in the cutscene but couldn't do it, they could have fixed that in the HD version.

And as to your other response, if catching bullets is more impressive than the raindrops, why even bother mentioning the raindrop feat in the first place?

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u/KevinLee487 ​ Dec 23 '17

And I don't know, if I heard Dante's voice during that cutscene I would assume it was Dante recounting the events. If I heard Vergil's voice I would assume it was Vergil recounting the events

Which would be plausible since both of them were there. Lady wasnt.

So your argument is "they would have done this, but they didn't have the technology to depict it"?

Its a very real possibility

Plus, if they really wanted to have that in the cutscene but couldn't do it, they could have fixed that in the HD version.

You would have a point if it wasnt Capcom we were talking about.

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u/Cleverly_Clearly ​ Dec 23 '17

So your argument is "they would have done this, but they didn't have the technology to depict it"?

Its a very real possibility

You are crafting this scenario where you are making completely evidence-less assumptions on the part of Capcom to justify your conclusion. Why not look at the feats and make your own judgement about them than starting off at "raindrop feat is valid" and then having to come up with stranger and stranger theories to justify it, finally culminating in "what the developers probably would have done contradicts what the player is seeing". Isn't it kind of admitting defeat if you go "well, it may be this way, but I bet they would have done it this way instead"?

Also, read my previous post again

Read my previous post again, because I already responded to that.

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u/KevinLee487 ​ Dec 23 '17

I consider it canon. It doesnt contradict anything. If anything, its the part of the fight that you play in Mission 7.

And I dont think its more impressive. Id consider it less so because even in the intro with the time slow, there are clashes that are invisible to the camera

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u/Cleverly_Clearly ​ Dec 23 '17

I consider it canon

Well, that's wrong. That's why I'm debating you.

It doesn't contradict anything

Except that the fact that the two sequences are contradictory is the whole point of the argument.

And I dont think its more impressive. Id consider it less so because even in the intro with the time slow, there are clashes that are invisible to the camera

Then why did you even bring it up?

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '17

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u/Cleverly_Clearly ​ Dec 23 '17

Low-effort responses can get you banned you know. If the only thing you have to justify yourself with is "Nope", then you should start coming up with some new evidence fast.

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u/KevinLee487 ​ Dec 23 '17

Also read my previous post again.