r/whowouldwin • u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ • Dec 20 '17

Special [Death Battle]Sephiroth vs Vergil

Vergil Respect Thread by me

Sephiroth Respect Thread by /u/ShadowSphere

Round 1: Regular Versions

Round 2: Nelo Angelo vs Whatever Peak Sephiroth is.

As per rules of Death Battle, they're both going for the kill

https://youtu.be/8sdzSDKquiY

156 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

176 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 23 '17

I'm saying the intro is condensed version of what happened in the boss fight. And if you really want to show that it is retconned then take it up to Capcom and ask if that Intro is retconned.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 23 '17

I literally showed you it was retconned, you are just trying to make excuses to keep it in.

It is not in the main game, I'd love to take it as canon, but it isn't by Capcom themselves retconning it.

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 23 '17

I told you the intro was the condensed version of things. It has things cut in place. The obvious clashing aka the raindrop scene in the intro signified player vs vergil in the boss fight.

The intro still adheres to the what happened in the boss fight it just missing some talking. There is no retcon.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 23 '17

If this scene is "cut", altars scenes, changes sequences of events, guess what: It isn't canon.

The one with all the talking, full sequence of events, and all that jazz is the canon one.

You're admitting it is different, yet claiming it is still valid. Why should I take the abridged version as fact, when there's canon one? Cause there's a feat that's good?

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 23 '17

The whole purpose of that Intro was to surmise what was happening in the game. Of course stuff is gonna get cut because it is the intro.

It is not abridged. You can take that fact that the intro represents the condensed version of the fight.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 23 '17

Surmise

Yes, it was to tell the player what was happening. Not the actual damn events taking place, which is why Lady was narrating the whole ordeal.

In your defense of it not being abridged, you used the very definition of the word. "shorten (a book, movie, speech, or other text) without losing the sense"

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 23 '17

Lady was narrating how the fight played and obviously cut out the other extra stuff.

Yeah I was think about the anime abridged stuff. My bad.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 23 '17

This being narrated by Lady, a person who didn't know how the actual events played out exactly undercuts the scenes validity.

This issue isn't that it cuts stuff, it is the fact that they effectively added a brand new stuff that only exists in the intro. If it was "condensed" they wouldn't have added new things, just shortened the fight, but adding new junk makes it uncanon.

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 23 '17

I am assuming this is the Lady after the events of DMC3.

No it isn't brand new. The clashing and rain drop scene was just Dante and Vergil fighting each other cut short. As I have said the raindrop and slashing is the surmised gameplay of the first boss fight with Vergil.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 23 '17

This is literally just an assumption on your part. Assumptions can't be used

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 23 '17

Then how did Lady know they were the sons of Sparda?

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 23 '17

Lady's narration basically says it was post DMC3, not pre. She retelling events, even those she wasn't there personally.

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 23 '17

Yeah and the scene is exactly that, a summarized version of the whole thing. And Dante would've most likely told her about the fight.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 24 '17

We've circled back. Let me lay out a few points, if you can logically explain them away I'll accept the feat:

  • Lady is narrating a fight she was never at, I agree that Dante told her about it, but she wouldn't know the exact movement in the fight.

  • Intro: removes, altars, and adds scenes to the Dante v Vergil fight. The adding of the scene throws a wrench as when the "full" scene is shown it isn't there. Especially since it was clearly shown when it was supposed to take place, during the scene.

  • Your claim that "it's the cutscene version of the bossfight," is merely an assumption without actual proof for it.

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 24 '17

Aight.

  • Intro as I have said Lady just summarized the fight and doesn't need to fully know what happened because the scene provides the key part: Dante getting defeated.

  • Those extra details were not added because this was just the intro and didn't need all the extra objects. When the intro started the two were already clashing and hitting the raindrops and so the scene where Dante shot Vergil were dropped.

  • The scene is the summary of the fight and that includes the gameplay.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 24 '17

  • This proves her perspective is uncanon. She doesn't know what actually happened, and only knows the outcome. Her IMAGINED version of the fight shouldn't be used

  • The Raindrop scene is added, that was no where to be found in the Chapter 7 scene. If the scene was just removing parts of the Ch. 7 cutscene, then there'd be some credence, but adding onto it is the issue.

  • I've asked for proof of you claim, and what you give me is another is another claim.

1

u/LoIIygagger Dec 24 '17

  • This the intro with just Lady narrating it. Lady is just commentating. That is why I'm saying the scenes add explanations to her statements.

  • The rain drop scene is what represents the regular gameplay fight between Vergil and Dante. It is not added. The scene where Vergil pushes Dante and Dante shoots at him were not added because it had dialogue and it was too long. They needed to represent the games story without some dialogue spoilers in the intro.

  • The fact that it is the intro and Dante and Vergil fighting.

1

u/Joseph_Stalin_ ​ Dec 24 '17

I don't think you understand the fundamental issue with your argument.

We've established that Dante and Vergil fight, what is legitimately done in the combat has been shown in the Chapter 7 cutscene. Your argument is, since the raindrop scene is them fighting and they fight officially in Ch. 7 it should be included, however you give no concrete proof beyond "it's okay it doesn't contradict anything."

I've shown you the raindrop scene is removed in Ch. 7, yet you claim "they fought, and the rainddrop is them fighting, so it still counts". You're going off assumptions, without actual evidence to backup it existing.

Unless you can show me them doing the feat in Ch. 7, them repeating the feat in a canon cutscene, or for whatever reason the writer/director/some topguy saying the intro is canon as well. I cannot include a feat that contradicted with just assumptions supporting it.

→ More replies (0)