[Death Battle]Sephiroth vs Vergil

[u/Joseph_Stalin_]

Vergil Respect Thread by me

Sephiroth Respect Thread by /u/ShadowSphere

Round 1: Regular Versions

Round 2: Nelo Angelo vs Whatever Peak Sephiroth is.

As per rules of Death Battle, they're both going for the kill

https://youtu.be/8sdzSDKquiY

[u/Joseph_Stalin_]

Issues:

• Comic Book Usage

  • The comic is 100% uncanon, while it doesn't do much beyond add some more backstory for Vergil, it shouldn't be used. Very first issue had Dante wield Alastor before even getting to Mallet Island and altering events a bit. Mostly nitpicking since feats aren't derived from it

• Incorrect/unconfirmed Background Info

  • I have no clue where 6'4" came from, no canon sources afaik, same to guessed weight.
  • "Master of Iaijutstu", unless I missed it somewhere he's never ever been said to be so.
  • "Losing a Drinking", this from the first Light Novel, which has been retconned by the events of DMC3. This is an uncanon factoid

• FUCKING DmC Usage

  • This is completely different character, why the hell is this character used? Hell, this one died from being stabbed in the heart. While the DMC bois are weak to heart aimed attacks, they still live.

• Usage of DMC4 Text Files

  • They said Vergil was capable of "Lightning Speed Movement" and seemingly allowed him that super move from DMC4, which should be considered uncanon. These were only found in DMC4, which Vergil's gameplay is literally only there for a bonus deal he's only canonically fought in the Intro Scene.

• Feats Section:

  • Clarification on the Illusion feat, it wasn't made by Arkham but by the unnamed Demon. Arkham just led him to the demon.
  • "Defeated Arkham, Agnus, Beowulf, and Dante"
    • Arkham: This required the assistance of Dante, so can't really say it was him. Unless you count him killing Arkham, which he failed at, in the first attempt
    • Agnus: Wut? He's never fought him canonically, what does he even do that makes it noteworthy even if it was canon
    • Beowul: He defeated a weakened and blinded Beowulf, hardly counts as a notable achievement.
    • Dante: He defeated an Unawakened Dante, who was notably weaker than Vergil

• THAT FUCKING RAINDROP FEAT

  • Making this it's own section as this is important. This feat only exists in an uncanon narrative scene being told by a person who was not there to witness the fight. The scene was also retconned in the very same game, the feat comes from the intro prior to Mission 1 while the actual events transpired in Mission 7

• The Calc for Beowulf punching force

  • This is all going on assumptions and usage of uncanon numbers. They ASSUMED Beowulf's weight, and they ASSUMED the feat was also in Slo-Mo. They then ASSUMED the Slo-Mo was the exact same level as the Raindrop feat's slo-mo, which is uncanon.

• Scaling to DMC4 Dante

  • Why?! Dante was outright superior in 3 and for whatever reason they said he should scale to the most powerful incarnation(feat-wise)??! If a superior Dante's highest showing "highballed" is barely half of a the Beowulf feat, you'd think it'd be considered a damn outlier. This was outright stupid usage of scaling.

• Dimension Hopping

  • Only done by the DmC incarnation, the closest we ever see Vergil doing something is entering the same room Dante and Arkham were fighting in at the end of DMC3

• On The Battle itself

  • I don't really care about this one, they've said it was entertainment purposes only so I don't put too much thought into this. Only complaint is the characterization of Vergil, didn't feel like the Blue Dante I know and love.

• Yamato not being Dimensional

  • This point, I'm actually not too fighty with. They're right that there's plenty of anti-feats for the weapon when it's clashing physically. Some people assume that it only applies to Judgement Cut, solely because when Dante does a similar move in 4 it is said to cut dimensionally. I don't think it only applies to Judgement Cut, but any slashes sent from it as it seems to be magically created. Vergil's sent slashes that have more destructive output then anything done physically by the sword. This kind of feats are replicated when Nero and Dante use the sword

• Illusion/Mental Weakness

  • Vergil is 100% susceptible to illusions, it has been shown, but he's more than capable of breaking out of it. How much it'll weaken him depends on how fast Sephiroth can capitalize.
  • Mental attacks should be on the same level as Dante, so no special resistances. However, they claim that's what killed him. He was fighting back from Mundus' control and that's what caused him pain, not some mental attacks.

Overall: The "info" on Vergil was real shoddy. I cannot give a verdict on the winner as I know jack shit about Sephiroth, and can only assume that his "feats" and info was equally as shoddy.

[u/KevinLee487 → u/Joseph_Stalin_]

Comic book usage

IIRC, that scene is in the DMC3 Manga which is 100% canon

"Master of Iaijutstu", unless I missed it somewhere he's never ever been said to be so

Capcom themselves said this multiple times when they were covering him for DMC4SE.

Usage of DMC4 Text Files

Vergil's appearance in DMC4 takes place prior to DMC3, so they're fair game. Vergil's Super Judgement Cut is present in DMC3 and Marvel vs Capcom 3 as well. The big difference is that the DMC4 version and the MvC3 versions are just much faster. Likely for gameplay purposes as sitting there for 10 seconds waiting to move again would be really annoying during gameplay.

Beowul: He defeated a weakened and blinded Beowulf, hardly counts as a notable achievement.

Its notable because while Dante weakened him, Dante got flattened into the floor in the process. Vergil effortlessly 1 shots him. Its clear that there is a decent gap in power between the two.

Dante: He defeated an Unawakened Dante, who was notably weaker than Vergil

He mopped the floor with Dante in more than 1 instance, he tied once while putting himself at a major disadvantage and finally lost when the plot called for it. I mean what do you expect? Dante is the main character and DMC3 is a prequel. Dante getting Force Edge was a predetermined outcome as was Vergil becoming Nelo Angelo. There really was no way to have Vergil win that fight and still have DMC1 make any kind of sense.

THAT FUCKING RAINDROP FEAT

We just had this discussion yesterday. I don't think theres any need to repeat ourselves because we clearly aren't going to come to an agreement. I consider it canon.

The Calc for Beowulf punching force

Except for the canon part, I agree with you here. That whole calc was one massive assumption on top of the other. I don't think Vergil is anywhere near that strong, but I don't think Sephiroth is either. However I'd give the edge in pure strength to Sephiroth.

Scaling to DMC4 Dante

Dante's base form doesn't get any stronger from DMC3 to 4. Theres literally no solid evidence to support it. Hell theres barely any evidence to suggest that his Devil Trigger gets stronger either. Its logical that he would get stronger as time goes on, but he doesn't. He gets far more experienced and comfortable with his powers, but he isn't stronger than he was in DMC3. Nero was able to break his guard and punch the shit out of him.

Why?! Dante was outright superior in 3

If you look at feats alone, Dante is not even equal to Vergil so lets hit the brakes on that one.

Yamato not being Dimensional

For whatever reason when this topic gets brought up, everyone disregards it and assumes that if it was true, Yamato would always cut through dimensions. Its clear that the wielder has control over weather or not that is going to happen for that particular swing. Look at Nero and Dante's fight in Mission 10 of DMC4. Nero sends out a energy wave with 1 swing and performs several normal swings. Dante cuts the Hell-gate in half and swings the sword around a couple more times after without it doing anything extra. Vergil uses it to cut Arkham's hand off from a couple dozen feet away at least. The only thing we know for 100% certainty that Yamato cannot cut through is Rebellion for whatever reason.

Though for the sake of the fight, its better that it didn't just cut Masamune in half.

Its also worth noting that Vergil clearly was only using a fraction of his strength when he swung at Lady. Even if Yamato wasn't capable of cutting Kalina Ann, his sheer strength would have meant that it was going to cave her face in from the pressure of trying to block his attack. The logical explination was that he was intentionally toying with her since he knew who she was and he wanted to taunt her.

I also have to say that they straight up lied about Vergil's regen being able to be worn down. That has never been hinted at in *any DMC game. Even when he was exhausted, his healing worked just as well as it did when he was in tip top shape. He literally fell to his knees from exhaustion in Mission 20 and Dante still couldn't even leave a wound on him, let alone cut him in half.

Vergil had this in the bag but DB downplayed him HARD. Sephiroth is one of my favorite characters so I'm pretty familiar with him and he really had no chance. Hes not anywhere near as fast even if you discount the raindrop feat, Sephiroth can't travel anywhere near as quickly as Vergil can. Them claiming he could move at supersonic speeds is straight up bullshit. Sephiroth cannot teleport either which they didn't even say he could, yet he was teleporting during the fight?? Riiiight....

Theres also the bit where Sephiroth isn't even phased from being diced up by Vergil, which wouldn't have happened. He can heal himself, but it still hurts when he gets hit. Vergil would never allow him to get a healing spell (or any spell for that matter) off before being hit again. And again. And again.

This fight was entertaining, but straight up wrong on a lot of their claims and Vergil didn't act in-character at all. They made him look like a fucking idiot.

[u/SGBF → u/KevinLee487]

From the moment Sephiroth comes back in FFVII, Masamune is made of pure spirit-energy/memories, so I don't know if Vergil would be able to cut it. Sephiroth is also faster than Zack, a guy who can dodge bullets from machine guns, so he IS pretty fast. And he teleported during his boss fight in Crisis Core and cutscenes of FFVII.

It seems you aren't as familiar with Sephiroth as you think.

[u/KevinLee487 → u/SGBF]

Zack, a guy who can dodge bullets from machine guns

Evidence? Because he gets killed pretty easily by guns which really shouldn't happen if hes a bullet timer. Theres also a huge difference between aim dodging and bullet dodging. Dante and Vergil are both casual bullet timers. Dante dodged a bullet by moving his head slightly after simply hearing a gun go off a few feet behind him. And that is still nothing compared to Vergil's speed feats.

1 - https://imgur.com/Eclzq1q

2 - https://imgur.com/qprhkmo

3 - https://imgur.com/M1oNC7z

3 in particular is quite impressive when you figure out the math behind it. A 1911 (of which Dante's guns are based off) has a muzzle velocity of 825ft/sec. In the cutscene, it takes ~1.5 seconds for Dante's first bullet to reach Vergil who is ~60 ft away. That would be a muzzle velocity of 40ft/sec which is almost 21x slower than what the bullet actually travels in real time. Now take into account that even with that 21x time slow, Vergil's sword is still moving so fast that its creating after images similar to a helicopter blade. A helicopter blade spins at 179RPM to 500RPM at idle or 3-8 times per second. Multiply that times the time slow of 21 and you get 63 times per second as a bare minimum with a high of 168 if we only use the idle speed. And it could be much much faster than that. I've never seen Sephiroth swing anywhere near that fast.

And thats not even taking into consideration the rain drop feat which is several thousand times faster than that.

And he teleported during his boss fight in Crisis Core and cutscenes of FFVII.

I don't recall him ever teleporting in FFVII and in Crisis Core, his "teleport" took about a full second to actually finish. Player controlled Zack could run to where Sephiroth was going to appear before Sephiroth ever got there.

[u/[deleted] → u/KevinLee487]

Lol. You must never have played the games, then. Zack dies to close to a hundred men with a fairly even split of swords & machine guns, backed up by three attack helicopters. Kills everything but three of the soldiers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqpnyrWUHUc&t=1m50s

Also, Zack easily bullet times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jgL4TyBFKM&t=1m24s

Learn your Zack. Also, just no. Dying to a weapon, like guns, does not mean that you aren't good at avoiding them.