The Great Debate Season 4 Round 2

[u/That_guy_why]

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Rules

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Battle Rules

• Speed shall remain unequalized; at this level, you have to show your moxie in arguing speed succinctly if you wish to retain an edge.

• Battleground: 'They call it a mine, A MINE!' 'This isn't a mine....it's a tomb.' THE MINES OF MORIA!!! Nestled in a mountain pass underneath the Misty Mountains, The Mines of Moria are an underground labyrinthine arena. The proper fighting stage is set in the Great Hall on the western side of the Bridge of Durin. All combat will begin roughly 200 feet from the bridge, should any wary persons decide to try and take advantage of such a precarious perch….The Hall is a large spacious opening with numerous 4 foot thick concrete support pillars littering it that reach all the way up to the 50 foot tall ceiling, and all exits save for to the Bridge are barred and locked by magic. Numerous sconces and braziers of flame are upon the walls and floors, casting enough light to see decently well by (a light level of roughly 5 lux, wherein your normal parking garage has 10 lux). The Hall itself is an area of roughly 1 kilometer squared, or 1000 meters by 1000 meters for sake of this tournament. Combatants start 10 meters away from each other at the start.

Debate Rules

• Rounds will last 4 days, hopefully from Wednesday until Saturday or Sunday of each week of the tourney; no time limit, however each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions.

• Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN TWO 10,000 CHARACTER REDDIT COMMENTS LONG.

• Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are determined by submission order (I.E. Your first submission vs. their first submission, and so on). Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa. First Round will be determined by coin flip.

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Current Bracket and Match Style

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Brackets Here

1v1 Singles Matches

Round 2 Ends February 24th, 11:59 EST

[u/TheMightyBox72]

Skulduggery vs Yunfei

Simply put, if Bai Yunfei closes distance to Skullduggery, it won't take long for him to pull a high quality weapon from his spatial ring and destroy him, if he doesn't just break him apart with his bare hands, as his durability doesn't seem good enough to withstand a single overlapping waves art. While Skullduggery could block a few hits from unarmed Bai Yunfei with his air shielding, that won't be enough to ward off the fire tipped spear, due to it's sheer attack potency.

On the whole I do agree that Yunfei would decimate Skulduggery in an up close battle, I do have to say that I think the durability of Skulduggery's air shields is being undersold here, as they're capable of stopping bullets and grenade explosions both of which should be able to destroy a saber as well as his spear could. If you've got better feats, feel free to show them.

The answer, as best as I can tell, is not many. While he has a good speed feat (in the air section of the RT) in fleeing from an explosion using a flight technique, that is the exception to the rule as it uses a particular technique.

If Skulduggery absolutely needs to escape a physical confrontation, he can throw up a cloud of dust to block his exit from view and then begin setting up battlefield manipulation from a distance.

Out of the two, would you believe, the revolver is the greater threat. As for the revolver, that's primarily a threat because of Bai Yunfei's lack of explicit bullet timing feats. However, we can be certain that any shot that hits his torso won't harm Yunfei at all, due to his armour that's capable of withstanding blows from people of comparable strength to Bai Yunfei.

Skulduggery usually leads with his revolver if he isn't aware of an opponent's relative piercing durability, though against a human he'll usually shoot somewhere non-lethal like the arms or legs. I dunno if his armor covers those spots, but if they don't, he should have no problem taking him down right off the bat.

Bai Yunfei has no problem taking kicks from people who're comparable in strength to himself, so any blunt force created by the wind magic isn't going to be a threat to Bai Yunfei, not to mention the fact that Yunfei conceals his evident strength level often, leading to Skullduggery underestimating him.

Even if Skulduggery is underestimating, his air manipulation isn't limited purely to blunt force, as he can just as easily incapacitate or KO through suffocation Yunfei, and if he is using his full power, Skulduggery's air manipulation can just as easily blow through a wall and crack crystal.

While you could argue that Skullduggery's intelligence is enough to see through the feigned inability by Bai Yunfei, considering that this is often feigned through keeping his high damage weapons in a spacial ring so he can seem unarmed while having immediate access to them, it's unlikely that Skullduggery will be at all used to such a method, and I see no relevant feats in the RT.

Quite the opposite actually, being a sorcerer who tracks down and fights other sorcerers, Skulduggery will naturally assume that anyone he comes across is capable of dealing major damage without need for a weapon. Although if his only means of concealing that he has hidden weapons is not immediately drawing them, Skulduggery could probably see small twitches and tensing movements in his dominant hand towards the spatial ring (he's been able to spot cat hair on a person in the middle of a fight) and would probably then shoot that hand or hold it still with air manipulation.

Skullduggery's fire magic is not going to be particularly effective, as Yunfei can easily hold a spear that creates a huge heatwave for a good distance around him when it's revealed,

I don't really see a heat resistance feat here. Heat travels through air well, and the fact that people around him are only mildly bothered by it means that it can't be that bad. Unless you've got better feats for that spear, you'd have a better chance arguing that it's literally on fire and that means Yunfei could touch flames.

And so we're all clear, Skulduggery's use of fire isn't limited to just hurling fire but also creating walls of fire to corral people and stop an approach.

Considering, however, that he seems far more reliant on the magic from the RT,

He only really relies so heavily on magic because so many people he fights are bulletproof. I mean you're not wrong for thinking that, but that's how it is.

But, then again, a lot of this relies on the fact that Bai Yunfei is likely to hold back his main killing tools in order to feel out an opponent. And doesn't that expose him to increased threat as the battle progresses, due to Skullduggery's arsenal and his need to close distance? Surprisingly, this is not as much of an issue as it could be. To begin with, a more drawn out battle is also beneficial to Bai Yunfei, in the form of the additional effects on gear.

Skulduggery doesn't like drawing out battles. He's well aware that drawing out a battle will only increase his chances of being surprised by something, and going down. Like I said before, if he sees his chance he's going to go for immediate, but non-lethal incap, if not through shooting the opponent, then by his air manipulation.

However, yes, if the battle gets too prolonged, Skulduggery's probably going to end up losing.

In particular, the glacial pricker is of great concern to Skullduggery. It's additional effect increases both it's attack power and speed, allowing it to pierce clean through a tree and then travel several dozen more meters before stopping, or to embed itself 3-4 meters inside a cliff face. Considering this attack power, Skullduggery's only option will be to dodge, which is unlikely considering Bai Yunfei can draw it out incredibly quickly from his spacial ring, throwing it before similarly fast opponents can even react.

Your scan there says it was only travelling twice as fast as a normal thrown dagger, which is not very fast, considering he's been able to react to to machine gun fire and nothing you've said up until this point has indicated he'd try and sneak up on Skulduggery, only that Skulduggery wouldn't see it coming since the weapon is hidden, which again, Skulduggery will be on his toes dealing with anyone, armed or not, especially since one of his closest frienemies has a similar ability.

Celty vs Han Li

I acknowledge basically everything you've said in this argument to be more or less true, I mean Han Li might just assume if he can't hear her heartbeat or breathing that her outfit is just particularly thick, but I can't exactly substantiate that kinda claim,

except for this part.

However, that's just if he chooses what I see as the correct option. It's similarly likely that Han Li would choose to target organs he is unaware are not functioning, such as the liver, stomach, etc. Perhaps he could even try to hit ones that he knows are not, like the heart and lungs. In this situation, while it is a far worse option in terms of effectiveness, it's not a certain death situation for Han Li, as he is capable of using the shifting smoke steps, a fast and mysterious movement skill, in order to escape binds. With this skill active, he moves incredibly quickly and is capable of avoiding objects as if smoke. Using this skill, it's rather unlikely that Han Li would be caught by Celty's shadows, and it would only add to her paranoia after he disappears back into hiding.

Now, if you were trying to grab at something, and it started slipping through your fingers, you might try and cup your hands, seal off its exits so you could catch as much as possible.

And if you were a shadow manipulating dullahan, if someone tried to slip through your shadows by turning into smoke, your first instinct might be to create a sphere of shadows around the smoke to try and catch it all. If Celty were able to catch Han Li unawares, she could very easily trap Han Li in as soon as the battle began and then heal from her wounds or at least walk away not as fucked up as she could've been at worst. Especially since she doesn't need to consciously keep her constructs activated, and just leave a person in the sphere while she peaces out. I think this one counter to Han Li's close ranged strategy, in addition to her lack of circulation, will be enough to beat Han Li in a slim majority.

[u/TheMightyBox72 → u/[deleted]]

I concede to my opponent.