r/whowouldwin • u/That_guy_why • Jun 13 '18
Special The Great Debate Season 5 Round 3
Rules
Battle Rules
Speed is to be equalized to a base of Mach 300. Speed boosts via abilities, however, are indeed allowed to make one surpass this base speed threshold. Projectile speed maintains relative velocity compared to the combatant it originates from; a human scaled up to this speed firing a gun means their bullet moves as fast to a Mach 300 character as a bullet does to us as normal humans.
Battleground: 'Your ancestors called it magic; you call it science. I come from a land where they are one and the same thing.' DEFENDER OF THE 9 REALMS, ASGARD!!! A floating realm where the protectors of all realms reside, Asgard is an advanced magical realm full of advanced science and immensely powerful warriors. Armed with the Bifrost gate which enables teleportation anywhere in the 9 realms, sporting numerous mountains and an enormous golden-hued city, Asgard is the pinnacle of civilized society and advancement. For the purposes of this tourney, you can indeed be knocked off Asgard. However, bear in mind that combat proper shall begin in the main courtyard of Asgard before the palace, where Hela slew many Asgardian warriors. Combatants start precisely 10 meters away from their opposition and in a line spaced 10 meters apart from their allies. Every combatant starts each round being 'teleported' into the arena, knowing full well whomever they face down needs to die or be incapacitated in order for they themselves to advance and win and will do so. All combatants begin without any weapons drawn or abilities active, hands idle at their sides, weapons holstered, and the moment they teleport in they can begin combat. All combatants are in-character for the tourney itself.
Submission Rules
- Tier: Must be able to win an unlikely victory, draw/near draw, or likely victory against Yusuke Urameshi in the conditions outlined above. All entrants will be bloodlusted against Yusuke, meaning they will act fully rationally and put down their opponent in the quickest, most efficient manner possible regardless of morality, utilizing any and all possible techniques/tactics/attacks if necessary. The bloodlust does not give any foreknowledge of Yusuke or his capabilities.
Debate Rules
- Rounds will last 4-5 days, hopefully from Monday until Thursday or Friday of each week of the tourney; no time limit, however each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions.
Current Bracket and Match Style
Brackets Here
Determined by coin flip, the first round was 1v1 Matches, meaning this round shall be:
1v1 Singles Matches
The match-up order is in the comments
Round 2 Ends June 18th, 11:59 EST
Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN TWO 10,000 CHARACTER REDDIT COMMENTS LONG.
Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are determined by
submission order (I.E. Your first submission vs. their first submission, and so on)randomized order based on sign up order via an internet list randomizer. Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa. First Round will be determined by coin flip.
1
u/GuyOfEvil Jun 17 '18
Third Response
Bai Yu vs Gandharva
Offensive Output:
This just proves my point. Brelith's closed space is at minimum two times better than an average closed space, and considering it isn't even particularly strained by an attack that can destroy two average closed spaces, its probably even more. This puts Gandharva's strength somewhere above at least double below the feat you are scaling to. It isn't enough to say he could physically contest with Bai Yu's battle armor.
Bai Yu's damage output
Assuming my opponent refers to the Zhui Ri scaling I brought up earlier with their mention of large building level damage, they are ignoring a large amount of context. Firstly, the destruction stretches further than just the tree. Secondly, this feat was preformed two massive amps ago, after both of which his Monochrome is shown to be signifigantly improved. Its even commented on in volume 3. Bai Yu's Aura of Origin is at minimum massively above large building level. And due to Gandharva's nebulous durability, there's no indication he could tank something like that.
Gandharva Durability
This scaling suffers from the same problem as the previous scaling. The turrets do less damage than the attack they are being scaled off of, in fact there isn't any indication Kasak would even be meaningfully damaged by the turrets, just that it hurts to have them continuously fire at him. On the other hand, Kasak is meaningfully hurt by an attack that isn't even mountain level.
This puts Gandharva's durability at no selling things massively below not even mountain level. It still isn't a great basis to say he could tank much of anything coming from Bai Yu.
Bai Yu Durability
This feat is taken wildly out of context. Zongheng destroyed Bai Yu's Battle Armor While it was under the effects of both True Dark Prison, and another Dark One Soul Gear. So yes, Zongheng broke Bai Yu's armor while it had the weight of a mountain pressing into it, his stats were cut in half (further note here, this mentions only lethality, but later on in volume 3 it specifically shows defenses being lowered)
This doesn't negate the other feats I've brought up at all, Bai Yu's battle armor can stay together under True Dark Prison, which easily puts it at mountain level, and in the range to tank more than a few of Gandharva's attacks, and plenty to say he could tank Gandharva's physical strikes.
Conclusion:
Nothing has changed, Gandharva's physical stats are still far too vague to suggest that he could tank sustained fire from Bai Yu or that he could damage Bai Yu with his physical strength.
His arrogance comes from a strong desire to save his people, it would be unlikely to come up in a random encounter. Furthermore, it isn't as if dodging easily dodgable attacks takes a massive amount of tactical skill.
Ronan vs Wanmei Xiyue
True Vampire Physiology
My oponment agrees that Xiyue's physical strength is not equal to Ai, this makes the discussion of Ai's physical strength irrelevant. Xiyue has no physical strength feats, and has no hope of overpowering Ronan in close combat.
Xiyue damage output
My opponent misunderstood my point. To clarify, I do not believe Xiyue is unable to use Ultimate Class Circles, although the fact that she never has in combat is notable. My point was she was not using Ultimate Class Circles in this scan, due to the impossibility of this confrontation based on the size of Ultimate Class Circle attacks.
If she attempts to bombard Ronan with lower level magic, which is stated to be on the level of artillery, this will do no damage to Ronan, and will lead to her quickly being taken out.
So its an estimate, not literal hundreds. I am fine with this assessment.
Absorption is an option he has on Ultimate Class Attacks if she attempts to use them due to their immense size.
Phoenix Armor Deconstruction
Is there evidence of this? I can find nothing in descriptions of the Phoenix Armor that says what it's made of.
There's no real proof one way or the other on this, so instead of making wild guesses, I'll bring up the fact that Ronan can prevent matter transmutation and rearrangement to nullify a fefensive power, which seems to be much of how the Phoenix Armor operates, considering it folds to defend Xiyue. This is as direct a feat we will get of him manipulating or not manipulating something similar to the Phoenix Armor, so it should be weighed the most highly in this discussion.
Conclusion
My opponent failed to address questions of Xiyue being able to use her magic in close combat, which were brought up in my previous response. They also concede that Xiyue is weaker than Wanmei Ai physically. Combined, these two facts mean that Xiyue has absolutely no hope of defeating Ronan in melee, and due to the small starting distance, the fight will take place solely in melee range. There is no hope for Xiyue in melee combat.